Well, mostly.
Krugman shared this chart, as part of an argument that it’s ridiculous for Europe to be scared of Russia:
GDP indicates the value of the parts of the economy which are subject to money. (If you do something but don’t use money, it doesn’t get measured.) As such it theoretically measures how much you can mobilize using money. Back when most people lived off commons, before that was enclosed, and didn’t need to do much paid labor, you couldn’t mobilize much.
But that’s theoretical ability. It’s important, but what matters is what you do with it.
And the thing is that Russia does with it is build drones, advanced missiles, advanced jets and other weapon systems. And they build them in large amounts. Europe’s production of weapons is much smaller, and they’re less advanced than the Russian weapons. Russia also produces lots of oil and natural gas and has a huge refinery sector. They have a lot of rare minerals and resources in general. And they do still have both heavy and light industrial sectors.
Meanwhile Europe is hemorrhaging industrial jobs and its industrial energy costs are much higher than Russia’s.
So Europe may have more theoretical economic capacity, but it can’t translate that capacity into state capability where it matters. Russia is stronger than Europe.
It’s not that it necessarily has to be this way, but for Europe to match Russia it has to maintain and expand its industry, find cheap energy, and source natural resources that are scarce in Europe. It also needs a lower cost structure than it has in general terms.
These are not trivial problems. Europe is pushing on renewables, to be sure, but has some way to go and effectively has to buy those from China. It needs to get resources like oil and minerals from other countries and the closest and cheapest source of hydrocarbons, which it needs during the transition, is far more expensive than it otherwise would be. American oil and natural gas is FAR more expensive.
The other traditional source of resources was Africa: mostly ex-French colonial possessions. France never forgave their debts, had military bases all over and often forced them to sell resources at very low prices. But now that Africa doesn’t need European goods, they’re kicked the French out and raising prices and moving to do primary processing domestically.
So sources of cheap minerals are drying up.
All of this could be worked around, if Europe was a technological leader, but…
Now legacy industry matters. Machine tools. Steel. Chemicals. Stuff that Germany is good at. (Automobiles are dying, because yes, the future is EVs.) But Germany and Europe are losing those industries. And they aren’t producing the industries of the future. Everything they have is basically legacy industry, developed in the late 19th and 20th centuries. They aren’t creating, mostly, the industries of the 21st century.
GDP only matters if you can use the resources it suggests you have to produce what you need. When it comes to competing with Russia, Europe’s ability to do so is limited. Not non-existent, Germany has significantly increased artillery shell production, for instance, but not what it needs to be.
Without a colonial empire and without resource rich nations willing to trade Europe the resources it needs at reasonable prices, and without a tech lead, What does Europe have?
Very little.
And this is why Europe’s in for a long fall. There’s no easy route out and no one is even talking about doing what’s right. The center still thinks that the problem is that workers have pension and time off, the rising right are complete idiots who think the US is a good model and the left is not, in most cases, in contention. Germany’s AfD will not make Germany better off, it will continue destroying Germany. The same is true of UK’s Reform part and France’s right wing.
GDP is a stupid stat. It conceals more than it reveals. It doesn’t tell you much about the structure of a country. India, which in GDP terms is a great power just lost a minor war to Pakistan. High GDP can actually be bad, since it includes waste, billionaire income that does nothing for the country, and all the money earned in harmful industries like finance and private equity.
Europe’s high GDP isn’t meaningless, precisely, but it isn’t what matters. If it was, Ukraine would have won the war already and the EU wouldn’t constantly be on its knees groveling to America.
What matters is what an economy CAN do. And Europe’s economy can’t create what Europe needs.
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Feral Finster
GDP, weapons or no, nobody expects europe to fight Russia. Not only are europeans the biggest wimps on the planet, nonces and ponces who make Liberace look like an action hero, europeans are *old*.
There is a reason that military recruiters do not scour old folks home for aged metrosexuals, looking to snap up the prime candidates and ship them off to the front Right after their hip replacement.
That was never the plan. The plan always was for europe to get stuck in, then run screaming for the Americans to come bail them out. Europe is psyching itself up to go to war with precisely this in mind.
If Trump were serious about peace with Russia (spoiler alert – he’s not), he need only tell the europeans loudly and publicly that if they persist in provoking Russia, then they are entirely on their own, including if Russia fights back. The United States will not ride to their rescue again.
That Trump does not do this is most instructive.
bruce wilder
In what sense is there an economic “Russian threat”?
This ought to be a fundamental inquiry for European statesman to make, not an unquestioned premise for an already aggressively hostile foreign policy.
The EU/NATO — often acting in coordinated fashion — has been aggressively hostile to Russia and Russian interests since at least 2008. Of course, he who pokes the bear should be afraid of the bear.
Europe does need access to energy and resources and Russia has offered such access, but apparently not on terms acceptable to some critical factions in Europe. One hypothesis is that the origin of hostility is west of the Atlantic. Alternative hypotheses might look east of the Oder.
spud
capitalists have always been bewildered over the russian economy. even after the twits gorby and yeltsin who thought they could be part of the club and let clintonites rape the country, the russian government managed to hang on to about 75% of the economy. after the war with ukrainse started, they are up to about 80% of the economy. russia measures production, not stock prices and how many yachts billionaires own.
gerhard schroder, the bill clinton of germany introduced austerity to achieve a trade surplus for german parasites, coupled with the hilariously named, the E.U. growth and stability pact(austerity on steroids) , has left europe facing massive poverty.
we see how desperate they are by their actions recently in mali. we see how the africans won’t put up with it anymore. the so-called rebels, are being slaughtered. france will have to pay mali full price for their resources and labor.
in the U.S., almost all GDP goes to a few wealthy parasites and leeches, to the detriment of the many. its a useless statistic.
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GDP measures the total dollar value of goods and services exchanged within a country, but it does not accurately reflect real economic productivity or well-being. It can be influenced by factors like inflation and imputed values, leading to distortions that may give a false impression of growth.
Wikipedia Medium
Understanding GDP Manipulation
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is often viewed as a key indicator of a country’s economic health. However, it primarily measures the total dollar value of goods and services exchanged, which can lead to misleading interpretations of economic productivity.
Key Distortions in GDP Measurement
Inflation Impact
GDP can increase due to rising prices rather than actual growth in production. This inflation can create an illusion of economic growth without any real increase in value.
Imputed Values
GDP includes estimated values for non-market transactions, such as the imputed rent of homeowners and employer-sponsored health insurance. These entries can inflate GDP figures without reflecting actual economic activity.
Nominal vs. Real GDP
Nominal GDP measures raw dollar values without adjusting for inflation, while real GDP accounts for inflation. A rise in nominal GDP may not indicate true economic growth if it is primarily driven by inflation.
Implications of GDP as a Measure
False Sense of Growth
Increases in GDP can suggest a thriving economy, but they may not correlate with improvements in living standards or well-being. For instance, a country could show high GDP growth while experiencing jobless growth or income inequality.
Focus on Monetary Value
GDP emphasizes monetary transactions over actual production and well-being, leading to a narrow view of economic success. This focus can obscure the true health of an economy and the quality of life for its citizens.
In summary, while GDP is a crucial economic metric, its limitations and potential for manipulation highlight the need for a more nuanced understanding of economic productivity and well-being.
Wikipedia
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the changes to GDP calculations all happened from 1993, to the early 2000’s, to reflect finalization of the economy. bill clinton bragged if services were included, we would be at the top of the heap. we now see the results.
https://medium.com/@patrick-oh-sglion65/rethinking-gdp-why-it-fails-as-a-measure-of-national-strength-and-what-should-replace-it-cbc821185fd0
“Taken together, these flaws undermine GDP’s credibility as a measure of national strength. Inflated service prices and fictional components exaggerate the size of developed economies. Financialization and cost-heavy industries distort productivity comparisons. Neglect of environmental and social costs yields a misleadingly positive picture of “growth.”
As the video analysis provocatively suggests, when we strip away these distortions and focus on tangible production, China’s economy may already be more than three times the size of America’s. Whether or not this precise claim holds under scholarly scrutiny, the broader insight is valid: GDP rankings reward price inflation and statistical padding over real capacity.”
“5.1 Inflation of U.S. GDP Through Services and Fiction
The U.S. GDP is disproportionately inflated by service-sector costs and statistical imputations. Imputed rent alone contributes more than $4 trillion — approximately 14 percent of GDP — despite representing no tangible transaction. Employer-provided health insurance and other non-cash benefits further expand the figure.
In addition, U.S. service prices are inflated by structural inefficiencies. Healthcare costs are notoriously high: the U.S. spends nearly twice the OECD average per capita yet delivers poorer health outcomes (OECD, 2021). Higher education, legal services, and housing also carry premium costs. All contribute to GDP inflation without corresponding increases in material capacity.”
“5.2 China’s Output Advantage in Tangible Goods
By contrast, China’s GDP reflects a larger share of tangible production. In 2022, China produced over 1.3 billion tons of steel, compared with 97 million in the U.S.. Steel is a foundational input for construction, infrastructure, and manufacturing, meaning China’s capacity to build is an order of magnitude greater.
Infrastructure statistics reinforce this disparity. China has constructed over 40,000 kilometers of high-speed rail since 2008, carrying billions of passengers annually. The U.S., by comparison, has no true high-speed rail line. China also dominates shipbuilding, solar panel production, and port infrastructure, hosting seven of the world’s ten busiest shipping ports.
Such outputs are not mere symbols of growth; they represent real productive capacity. As Kennedy (2021) argues, “infrastructure and industrial base underpin national power in ways that financialized GDP figures cannot capture.”
“5.4 The Service-Production Gap
The structure of GDP further differentiates the two economies. In the U.S., services account for nearly 77 percent of GDP (World Bank, 2022). Many of these services — such as financial advising, legal work, or lobbying — generate high incomes but limited tradable outputs. In China, industry and construction account for roughly 40 percent of GDP, reflecting greater emphasis on physical production.
This structural divergence means that GDP rankings, which treat a dollar spent on legal fees as equivalent to a dollar spent on manufacturing, systematically overstate U.S. strength relative to China.”
“5.5 The “Productive GDP” Hypothesis
If GDP were stripped of imputed rents, inflated service costs, and financial churn, and instead measured only in terms of tradable goods and tangible outputs, the balance of power would shift dramatically. Some estimates suggest that China’s productive GDP — defined as actual goods, exports, infrastructure, and energy-intensive production — could be more than three times the size of the U.S. economy today.
While such claims remain debated, they expose the extent to which conventional GDP rankings conceal material realities. The global economic leaderboard, long assumed to be led by the United States, may in fact already be dominated by China in terms of real production.”
“7.1 The Policy Risks of GDP Fetishism
Relying on GDP as the singular indicator of national strength poses substantial risks for domestic and international policy. Policymakers who pursue GDP growth as an end in itself may inadvertently encourage activities that inflate output figures while eroding long-term welfare. For example, fossil fuel extraction boosts GDP in the short term but accelerates climate change, creating costly liabilities for future generations. Similarly, financial deregulation can expand GDP through speculative activity, only to produce crises that devastate households and require expensive bailouts.”
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in reality, the U.S., canada, australia, new zealand and the E.U., are probably bankrupt.
they can print unlimited money internally to pay bills, but can no longer pay external debts with printed money.
so the selling off of assets to foreigners, is losing steam as those bubbles inevitably pop. we see everything under the sun is being thrown at the stock market to keep the bubbles started under bill clinton from collapse.
but foreigners are becoming educated as to what the western economy really is, a ponzi scheme, and now want tangible assets such as manufactured products in exchange for their trade with the west. no products worth buying means western money is fast losing its value.
Bob
GDP is numbers in a computer which Europe has enough of but actual stuff, it doesn’t have any.
Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.
Mark Level
Thanks to Ian for the post. It is clear and comprehensible. That chart of patents alone is devestating.
Good comments all ’round, I see only 4 as I type this, but all informative and correct.
My own sense is EUrope could only save itself if it does 2 things which it will NEVER do, the Elites like Kallas, von der Lying, stumblin’ Starmer, etc will block, would prefer starvation and freezing.
1. End the Austerity regimes and adopt actual Socialism. Destroy the economic inequality. Save your poorer citizens from proximate extermination by leveling incomes, a UBI. Again, Na Gonna Happen.
2. Stop refusing Russian gas supplies, idiotic sanctions, etc. Only one Nordstream supply line was bombed by Sullivan and Blinky, I believe they could open up the 2nd, surviving one, within a week and improve the possibility of survival. They won’t allow that, prefer the mass die-off of their populace. It will look like the die-off of 5 million people prematurely in Russia after 1991, directly arranged by the US Empire, in like 4 years, the average lifespan for Russian men in particular dropped 7-8 years. The fat drunken lout Boris Yeltsin oversaw the gutting of all the Red-era pensions, handing over the big businesses to a few favored Oligarchs who got collosally rich while the unemployed serfs suffered and died, or sold their children.
In closing, thanks to whomever shared that Nicholas Kristof piece a few days’ back. I was too busy to look into it and didn’t have much respect for him as I know his history and reputation.
But Due Dissidence is covering it today. Russ Dobular just got back from his 4 plus month reporting trip across Asia, with China being his final country to visit, Vietnam his favorite. They covered this story in depth. The piece was from the NYC so it starts with 6 Big Lies about all the “systematic Hamas rapes on Oct. 7,” straight from the mouths of Zionist Goons Brain-Bleed Biden, Netanyahu, etc.
All the MICIMATT propaganda-lies organs the next day after that story united to shriek that Kristoff was wrong (not on the 1st part), stupid, the Zionists would NEVER do this, etc. The DD duo of course easily rebutted this, they got a clip of Settlers bragging about how they do (g)rape prisoners on camera, it’s good clean fun, they bragged about training a Dog, to Grape Palestinian prisoners. Also some idiots said that it is impossible to train dogs to do this, but golly, Klaus Barbie has been convicted of this, and it was done in Pinochet’s Chile for decades as well.
The Zionist Agent “reporter” Scott Jennings, employed by “Salem Media” an Israeli-owned and run Hasbara operation, lies angrily about “the vicious blood libel,” etc. I’m sure DD will clip this segment seperately in a day or two, will share the link with people here when they do. Extremely thorough job by them. Kristof talked to at least 14 witnesses who saw the graping, as well..
Jorge
Industrial output is mostly fueled with diesel. Count how much diesel a country burns, and you know how much “GDP I should be afraid of” they have.
mago
GDP aside, what does matter is the ruling idiocracy. How did these toxic Russophobes get elected or appointed to power? Madness everywhere you look from beginning, middle to the end. And somehow we muddle along, until we don’t anymore Tis an ill wind that blows across the Northern continent. . .
Eclair
Good comment, Mark Level. I have avoided reading Kristoff for years, but I agree that his report on the Israeli rape atrocities might be a watershed moment.
However, my cynical side mutters, they can use Palestinian babies and toddlers for target practice, pulverize thousands of children with big bombs, and the West …. yawns. After all, it can’t happen here. And, everyone does it.
But document the systematic sexual abuse, by dogs and, ick, implements, of grown men and suddenly, the calculus shifts. The males in the power structure realize, although not in the rational parts of their minds, but somewhere buried deep in the parts of the brain where nightmares are born, hey, that could be me!
Women have lived with this for centuries. We grow up with the, ‘relax and enjoy it,’ jocularity swirling around us. The males of the lower class, immured in the US carcéral system, live with it. Just part of your ‘punishment’ for being poor.
But, whatever works to help document the horrible abuses of the Zionist system …… Let’s not forget the little children.
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How did these toxic Russophobes get elected or appointed to power?
Huh? What? Russophobes? They love Russia as does MAGA. Afterall, Russia is the last white refuge. I’m old enough to remember the goofy-ass movie Red Dawn. I watched the first 5 minutes and shut it off but it was hella popular in the sticks because the sticks was so allegedly anti-communist. Fast forward 40 to 50 years and as it turns out, the sticks is/was a collective of communist rubes in capitalist clothing and the invasion was them all along.
I’m not defending Europe and the EU here by any means, but come on! Get real! Russia’s economy sucks. It’s a rentier state that mostly produces weapons. The comparison should be between Russia and China, not Russia and anyone else. Afterall, the 21st century is the Chinese century. I want to hear that spill from Putin’s lips. Come on, Vlad, repeat after me/us, the 21st century belongs to China, not Russia. Russia, like America, had its day and as they say, you can never go back.
rkka
Mago, what made the situation irreversible was incorporating Poles & Balts in NATO & EU, as veto-holding members. They spent the next couple decades vetoing any compromise with Russia, demanding Russia’s capitulation on everything.
Never confuse those who started a war with those who made it inevitable.
Mark Level
Hopefully not too off topic–
Great new Lego video out about Trump’s failed distraction visit to Ghina, straight-ahead rock style here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CchmMTaVvAU&list=RDCchmMTaVvAU&start_radio=1
I’m sure most are aware, Xi didn’t meet him at the airport, I think nobody did, he was made to wait until a dinner the next day for face to face meet-up. They did get some children, age 5-8 to jump and cheer for the fat man, we all know how Trump “loves children,” though he never did formally join NAMBLA, he was per the Epstein files into little girls and their is no NAMGLA I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CchmMTaVvAU&list=RDCchmMTaVvAU&start_radio=1
Straight ahead rock video, Hip-hop haters need not fear clicking.
Somebody noted that the head of Khazakstan was in China at the same time as DJT, & was given much more press and public attention!! “Everybody knows” US a shambolic Paper tiger 2+ months into the Iran failed Aggression.
Even the Market-worshipping Randian greedheads at ZeroHedge admit Trump’s complete summit failure. Markets tanking.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/trump-talk-thucydides-trap-threat-triggers-market-mayhem-overnight
Trump deflected poorly, Xi’s citation of the Thucidydes Trap was about Biden, lol!!
eg
What matters is real resource availability, including labour. Neoliberalism has eaten our brains such that we have convinced ourselves that the spreadsheets (money) ARE the molecules and joules (real resources).
GDP aggregates absent any consideration of their composition are meaningless — economic rents are NOT the equivalent of productive industrial capacity.
Having said all that, European “fear” of Russia is ginned up nonsense. The Russians just want to be left alone — they don’t have the population required to invade and rule millions of non-Russian speaking peoples and have ZERO interest in doing so. The entire premise is Atlanticist brain-rot in the service of US fossil fuels and weapons sales with lots of European comprador elites in on the grift.
Purple Library Guy
Of course nobody’s willing to talk about the REAL reason the EU shouldn’t be afraid of Russia, to wit Russia isn’t interested in attacking them and there would be no conflict if NATO would just back the fuck off.
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Markets tanking? Get real! Every day the headlines are “the markets are tanking and it’s for real this time” and yet it never is for real and will never be for real. I’ve said this before and I will say it again, the markets will still be rising even when human is no more. The algos will still be chugging away in the rubble telling the universe “everything’s gonna be alright, everything’s gonna be alright.”
I agree, America is done. Our goose is cooked. The next great war will not be America versus anyone else, it will be China’s annihilation of Russia. Now that America is no longer in the room to run interference and suck the oxygen out of the space, these two authoritarian powers are now looking each other squarely in the eye and Russia stands no chance.
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… there would be no conflict if NATO would just back the fuck off.
NATO? What NATO? Do you mean the menacing, expansive-minded NATO that will have nothing to do with Trump’s empire-ending military adventurism in the Middle East? That NATO?
I’d say NATO is pretty much effectively defunct at this point so it has backed off, whatever that means. It’s now Putin’s move to withdraw from Ukraine and say he’s sorry for the tragedy, it couldn’t be helped, NATO made him do it and now that NATO is no more, he promises to never do such a thing again because it simply is not in Russia’s interest and character.
spud
its hilarious watching democrats foaming at the mouth, blaming tariffs for everything. the fact of the matter is, biden found out what a mess he helped to make in the 1990’s.
biden really raised tariffs within a short time after taking power. the unfair competition was fully implemented by bidens own vote for bill clintons free trade with china. proving once again lenins predictions.
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President Biden raised tariffs on Chinese goods to protect American workers and businesses from China’s unfair trade practices, including forced technology transfers and intellectual property theft. The tariffs target strategic sectors like electric vehicles, solar panels, and lithium-ion batteries, where China has significant overcapacity.
Council on Foreign Relations U.S. Department of Commerce
Reasons for Raising Tariffs
Protecting American Workers and Businesses
President Biden raised tariffs on Chinese goods primarily to safeguard American workers and businesses. The administration aims to counteract China’s unfair trade practices, which include:
Forced technology transfers
Intellectual property theft
Targeting Strategic Sectors
The tariffs specifically focus on strategic sectors where China has significant overcapacity. These sectors include:
Electric vehicles (EVs)
Solar panels
Lithium-ion batteries
Addressing Economic Security
The tariff increases are part of a broader strategy to enhance U.S. economic security. By imposing these tariffs, the Biden administration seeks to:
Reduce dependency on Chinese imports
Encourage domestic production in critical industries
Response to Trade Imbalances
The tariffs are also a response to longstanding trade imbalances and unfair competition from China. By increasing tariffs, the U.S. aims to level the playing field for American manufacturers and protect jobs in affected industries.
Council on Foreign Relations U.S. Department of Commerce
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Biden’s tariffs have been strategically targeted and, in some cases, higher than Trump’s, such as the increase on imported Chinese electric vehicles from 25% to 100%. However, overall, Trump’s tariffs raised the average tariff rate significantly, reaching an estimated 24%, the highest in over a century.
Wikipedia yougov.com
Overview of Tariff Policies
Both President Biden and former President Trump have implemented tariffs as part of their trade policies, but their approaches and the levels of tariffs differ significantly.
Comparison of Tariff Rates
Aspect Trump’s Tariffs Biden’s Tariffs
Average Tariff Rate Estimated at 24%, highest in over a century Targeted increases, e.g., 100% on Chinese electric vehicles
Specific Tariff Examples 10% on all imports, 25% on steel and aluminum Increased tariffs on Chinese EVs from 25% to 100%
Focus of Tariffs Broad, often indiscriminate Strategic, targeting specific industries like clean energy
Implications of Tariff Increases
Trump’s Approach: His tariffs were broad and raised the average tariff rate significantly, impacting a wide range of goods.
Biden’s Approach: While some of Biden’s tariffs are higher than Trump’s in specific cases, they are generally more targeted, aimed at protecting key industries and addressing unfair trade practices.
In summary, while Biden’s tariffs can be higher in specific instances, Trump’s overall tariff strategy has resulted in a higher average tariff rate across the board.
yougov.com Wikipedia
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so what trump and bidens response to the free trade sellout of america to benefit a few rich parasites and leeches, was to partially implement ben franklins american system.
the part they implemented was the tiny part of franklins american system, they threw money at the rich, and ignored everything else franklin had to say.
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today the results are obvious, internationally america is bankrupt, no one wants much of anything from us, and the dollar is losing value fast, as it becomes obvious that even without sanctions, the dollar can only buy over priced manipulated paper and real estate assets, which in the end, all bubbles implode.
we can print as much as we want to pay bills internally, but external is another matter. and like steve keen says, economists and politicians simply do not understand debt nor energy inputs.
so the trip to china to sell old third world junk, got no takers. and now the inevitable results of the sellouts of the new deal/fair deal and Gatt, are hitting the fan.
just think, obama had the mandate to reverse the policies of bill clinton in 2009, and he did not, he bailed them out, and did even more damage. today its to late.
now china used the american system to spring board ahead of us with ease. so i do not blame them at all. if i was dealing with a traitor that wanted to goose a stock market bubble for parasites, and was more than willing to sell his country out, i to would have taken advantage of that.
but, handing them the country on a silver platter, meant the time for the chinese to over take us, would have been considerably longer.
can you imagine the looks on the rich parasites and leeches trump took with him, as they tried to sell third world junk to a socialists first world nation, as they toured china, they must have thought they were in a sci-fi movie.
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Bill Clinton’s administration allowed U.S. companies to export technology and information that assisted China in developing its missile and nuclear capabilities, which raised significant national security concerns. This included the controversial sale of high-performance computers and missile guidance technology to Chinese firms.
wisconsinproject.org EveryCRSReport
U.S. Technology Exports to China Under Clinton
During Bill Clinton’s presidency, significant decisions were made regarding the export of technology to China, which had implications for U.S. national security.
Key Actions
Export of High-Performance Computers: The Clinton administration eased restrictions on the export of high-performance computers. This decision allowed Chinese companies to acquire computers capable of simulating nuclear weapon designs and missile technology.
Missile Guidance Technology: U.S. companies, notably Loral Space and Communications and Hughes Electronics, were reported to have provided China with missile guidance technology. This assistance was part of efforts to improve the reliability of Chinese rockets.
National Security Concerns
The export of these technologies raised alarms about the potential enhancement of China’s military capabilities, particularly in developing nuclear weapons and missile systems. Critics argued that these actions compromised U.S. national security by enabling China to advance its military technology significantly.
Summary of Implications
Action Description National Security Impact
Eased Computer Export Controls Allowed sales of computers for nuclear simulations Enhanced China’s nuclear capabilities
Provided Missile Guidance Tech U.S. firms assisted in improving Chinese missile technology Increased reliability of Chinese missile systems
These actions during Clinton’s administration have been a focal point in discussions about U.S.-China relations and the implications for global security.
EveryCRSReport wisconsinproject.org
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can you imagine china buying boeings stuffs made with right to work southern labor in south carolina!
Bill Clinton’s administration facilitated the sale of advanced aircraft technology to China, which included machine tools that could enhance the performance of Chinese military aircraft. This decision has been criticized for potentially compromising U.S. national security.
thebignewsletter.com prosperousamerica.org
Bill Clinton’s Role in Offshoring Aircraft Technology
Overview of Technology Transfer
During Bill Clinton’s presidency, significant decisions were made regarding the transfer of advanced aircraft technology to China. This included the sale of specialized machine tools that could enhance the capabilities of Chinese military aircraft.
Key Events
1994 Deal: Clinton’s Secretary of Commerce, Ron Brown, negotiated a deal that allowed Chrysler to build minivans in China and facilitated the sale of 40 MD-90 aircraft from McDonnell Douglas to China.
Machine Tools Controversy: As part of the aircraft deal, there was a proposal to sell machine tools to the China National Aero Technology Import and Export Corporation (CATIC). These tools were critical for manufacturing aircraft parts and could significantly improve the performance of Chinese military aircraft.
National Security Concerns
The decision to sell these machine tools raised alarms among U.S. military experts and lawmakers. Critics argued that this transfer could enhance China’s military capabilities, posing a potential threat to U.S. national security. The Pentagon and various congressional members protested against the sale, highlighting the risks involved.
Conclusion
Clinton’s administration is often criticized for its approach to trade and technology transfer with China, particularly regarding the implications for U.S. security. The decisions made during this period have had lasting effects on U.S.-China relations and the balance of military power in the region.
thebignewsletter.com prosperousamerica.org
Explore More
Offshoring aircraft technology during Bill Clinton’s presidency led to significant job losses in the U.S. general aviation manufacturing sector, with over 100,000 well-paying jobs lost. This trend also contributed to a decline in the domestic production of general aviation aircraft, which fell from 18,000 in 1978 to only 555 by 1993.
UC Santa Barbara
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Boeing’s South Carolina factory has faced scrutiny due to allegations of poor production practices, including reports of potentially dangerous debris left in the 787 Dreamliner planes, although no major safety incidents have been confirmed. The company has denied these claims, asserting that their planes undergo rigorous quality inspections.
Business Insider NBC News
Overview of the South Carolina Factory Issues
Boeing’s South Carolina factory has been under scrutiny for allegations regarding its production practices, particularly concerning the 787 Dreamliner aircraft. Reports have surfaced detailing concerns about safety and quality control.
Allegations of Poor Production Practices
Key Concerns
Debris Left in Aircraft: There have been multiple reports of potentially dangerous debris, such as tools and loose materials, being left inside the Dreamliner planes during assembly.
Quality Control Issues: Employees have described a rushed assembly line that prioritizes speed over quality, leading to shortcuts that could compromise safety.
Employee Testimonies
Some workers have expressed their reluctance to fly on the Dreamliner due to these safety concerns, citing specific instances of loose metal shavings and other debris near critical components.
Boeing’s Response
Boeing has firmly denied the allegations, labeling them as “offensive” and “distorted.” The company emphasizes that:
Rigorous Inspections: All planes undergo thorough quality inspections before delivery.
Safety Record: Despite the reported issues, Boeing maintains that there have been no major safety incidents linked to the production practices at the South Carolina facility.
Conclusion
While Boeing’s South Carolina factory has faced significant criticism regarding its production methods, the company continues to assert that its aircraft meet high safety standards. The situation remains a point of contention as investigations and discussions about production practices continue.
Business Insider Wikipedia
Explore More
Allegations against Boeing’s South Carolina factory include falsifying inspection records for 787 planes, taking shortcuts in manufacturing, and pressuring safety workers to conduct inspections prematurely. These issues have raised concerns about the company’s safety culture and compliance with federal regulations.
Yahoo abcnews4.com
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the balance of payments problem had already come to a head by 2008, the trade deficit was eating the U.S. alive.
today, it can’t be extended, the U.S. is bleeding real valuable assets like oil, gas and gold, in a desperate attempt to stave off the inevitable.
that was the reason for trump going to china.
Mark Level
Well, LAS’s RDS (Russia Derangement Syndrome) makes him nothing if not knee-jerk and predictable. I knew he’d say something dumb and gaslight, sure enough. I’m not the only one whose obvious opinions are attacked, Finster’s first comment can’t be naysaid credibly, no explicit attempt is made. bruce wilder 2nd comment, he’s in the same boat as the rest of us. Russia is Yuuuge, Trump yuuge geograpically, but not demographically, they don’t need more land, beyond rescuing their own people from Ukrainian Fascisti determined to exterminate them. spud’s 4th man into our lifeboat, he is not obese but piles on so many facts that the boat’s considerably heavier in the water, though focused entirely on China’s GDP, not Russia. LAS doesn’t display much CDS (other than his nonsense about the invented “Uighur Genocide”), we could have a good-faith argument about whether there was a systematic Tibetan genocide decades ago or even recently, though LAS generally eschews good faith. PLG 5th man in, he says what I repeated from his point just before my post, Russia doesn’t want (actual) Ukraine, Finland, Estonia, none of those Euro-slugs.
LAS chimes in with the usual talking points, but initially is the blind pig who found an acorn– “I’d say NATO is pretty much effectively defunct at this point so it has backed off, whatever that means.” The first part of that sentence is true, as to “backed off, whatever that means,” not so much. They just gave the runty Green Goblin a $90 billion “loan” (sic, it will never be repayed) but I just accidentally lied by quoting them, really of the 90B, the EU bigger states (Germany, etc.) are keeping 1/3 of the money stolen from their citizens. If you actually had sympathy about “bad economies,” LAS, you would denounce this. I won’t hold my breath.
“Russia’s economy sucks.” No, a Claim made sans Evidence. Many Americans have been to Russia, Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern (who speaks Russian fluently), Scott Ritter, Judge Nap, and all attest it is a rich, vital, dynamic society, not in economic “distress” in any way. Harper’s in January 2024 had a cover story titled “Behind the New Iron Curtain: Caviar, counterculture and the New Cult of Stalin reborn.” Mario G. Mazin (an Italian journalist) spent the better part of a summer in the Volga area, mainly in the Mariel Republic and Kazan areas, as well as southeast in Samara. He reported on a rich, exciting, optimistic culture, the evidence of his eyes. The “counterculture” aspects weren’t hating the government, they were teens and adults wearing Red, and Stalin T-shirts!! Not in praise of the Anti-Semitic and Islamophobic lunatic Alexei Navalny.
Thanks to eg as well, excellent point made. 6th in the boat, LAS wishes he was Hegseth and could send a missle to sink us all to Davy Jones’ locker. I’ve asked ad nauseum before, LAS, I know it’s a waste of typing, but– why are you at an anti-Imperialist, Lefty site like this one. You’ve admitted yourself you are NOT Left, “not Right” (love of Bandera belies that), believe in “nothing.” Did you steal that from Larry David’s take, Seinfeld was “about nothing”, no learning or growth ever seen in any episodes. You would be very popular over at the Hate-Russia ShitLib site Lawyers, Guns & Money, I’m not sure why, beyond pure, hysterical Contrarianism you waste time here where very few if any take you seriously.
mago
My one line suggestion that L&S change up his meds got censored. Ok. I can live with that.
Mark Level reliably came through with a scathing take down, and I appreciate that.
Cheers!
Forecasting Intelligence
“he rising right are complete idiots who think the US is a good model and the left is not, in most cases, in contention. Germany’s AfD will not make Germany better off, it will continue destroying Germany. The same is true of UK’s Reform part and France’s right wing.”
Where do you get that idea from?
The AfD are very pro-Russian and have turned on Trump recently. The far-right increasingly see a deal with Russia as a solution to Europe’s problems e.g. access to cheap resources.
Very few nationalist right-wing parties admire Trump (outside Farage and the UK has always been an exception).
Mark Level
Cheers, compadre mago!!
The God of Serendipity keeps feeding me stuff recently. Here’s the first video I opened this morning, The Duran, big boost is the slightly troubled Russian economy last month.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FpoioPRNHI
We’ve been hearing that “Russia is about to COLLAPSE!” bullshit non-stop since even before the Feb. 2022 start of the SMO from LAS’ NAFO Troll ilk since even before them. Also, “Putin is dying from advanced cancer, AIDS, Ebola and a stolen kidney, he fell down a flight of stairs and pooped his pants, it’s on camera.” The last from the moronic Kyle Kulinski who has one achievement in life, he got an older Sugar Mama to care for him, is now a millionaire. Sadly the cam footage of P’s pratfall has never emerged.
Water is not wet after all, if you are highly informed about physics, right?
Well, Trump’s idiocy has been a major gift to Russia and Vladimir, they control the biggest supply of oil in East Asia and Western Europe, but Russiagate was never real (Zio-Gate was the truth.) To their slight credit, the Banderists with Euro-funding have really ramped up drone attacks this year. It remains a pea-shooter hitting an elephants’ hide, however. Trump admin/ CIA’s attempt to kill Putin at his Valdai retreat with a massive drone-swarm some months’ back failed.
If you watch the video to the end, Alexander notes that average incomes in Russia are now notably higher than in his own UK, for the first time in centuries. (I’m guessing when Russia was founded in 862 c.e. it was far more prosperous than the cold, small, isolated island where the Scots, my own Irish kin and The English, Welsh etc. later dwelt.)
2nd serendipity hit this morning, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIO4IDMnBDU
“Why Critical Thinking is Disappearing– The Rise of Collective Stupidity.” It warns me while informing me, I need to think things thru gradually rather than just using clicks and AI misinformation. Clear enough. Work to get there, whatever your meds are.
Per Nietzsche, Convictions create Convicts, some imprison their minds in Plato’s Cave. Better to follow the comedy team Firesign Theater’s pointing finger, “Everything You Know is Wrong.” When I find myself on the wrong path, I take a 180 degree turn, initially, then readjust.
I recently trashed Putin on this site, citing John Helmer’s take on his sincere love for the Zionist Entity. But that doesn’t even register with LAS. He’s cartoonish at times, but I never project that he is a cartoon character. He can’t return the favor, is just too prejudiced and triggered.
Mark Level
Thanks to Forecasting Intelligence for an excellent comment showing nuance and insight. I never expected to be on the same page as FI, but sometimes that “left-right horseshoe” is real.
I have respect for some people on the Far Right who are right (imho), correct more than 40% of the time on issues I care about, about as often as LAS makes a really good, relevant post.
Examples: Barry Goldwater, “Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no Vice.” Also he warned the R. party NOT to let Falwell and the Bible-Banger lunatics into the GOP, knew they would fuck it up and turn it into a Cult, which we have seen for decades.
Per Reuters, Edmund Burke didn’t actually say that “Evil triumphs only when good men do nothing,” but I’d used that for decades thinking as others that he did. I’d add “& women” to the quote, wonder who originated it.
I used to teach Elie Wiesel’s Holocaust book to teenagers, by then I knew he was a hate-filled Zionist who considers us goyim to be cattle, but I have often quoted “The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference.” Reddit has an entire thread trying to demolish that, but it makes sense. Love and hate cause incredible fixation on the beloved/ hated one. At Indifference you “couldn’t care less”, doesn’t matter.
William F. Buckley has never said anything I know of I’d agree with, nor John Wayne either.
I loved seeing the Crazed Glibertarian Scott Horton demolish Bloody Bill Kristol in an Oxford-style debate about all the failed NeoCon wars stirred up by PNAC and their spawn, he won the vote by the audience as well, Kristol knew he’d lost and was just looking at his flight plans the last 10 minutes of the program. But when Horton said during Biden’s admin that the “Commisar” President was distributing Communist Equality to the proles it only provoked a great belly laugh. I did not buy his book Provoked about the Russia-Ukraine war though I’m sure it’s excellent. I don’t want to give him money, he is unhinged.
Lots of former extreme Righties have found their basic humanity, especially since the Gaza Genocide started (& W. Bank, Lebanon, attempted in Iran): Judge Napolitano switched teams, Marjorie Taylor Green too, mostly but not all of course (believes in Trickle-down Randian economics), Tucker Carlson who once said Iraqis were “retarded monkeys who don’t know how to use spoons” is aligned with me many times now, as is Candace Owens to a point, used to thoroughly despise her.
Nietzche, like Aleister Crowley, had manic-depressive political swings in his writings, sometimes at crypto-fascist militarist levels, but also called the State the Greatest Monster that has ever existed, Anarchistic thought.
Now as to the AFD, I’m sure I’d hate their racial and forced migration actions in power, I’m 89% white but I’d never go there. On the other hand, I agree with FI, they are the only Adults in the Room politically viz Russia, so it’s a mixed bag.
Let’s not forget that the NASDAP, S was for Socialist, Nazis pretended to be socialist during the Depression when it was popular. Did build infrastructure and spread wealth more equitably for a bit before burning Deutschland down to the ground.
FI’s not on here often, is one of 2 overt Zionists I know of on here, doesn’t strike me as a “Liberal Zionist” either, they are generally very despicable also. On a prior thread he said he thought Israel did lots of “good things” in the 80s, as I had passed thru Guatemala 2x during 83-84, not seen the actual Genocide they were doing there when the Boland Amendment pushed Reagan out but learned of it later, 200,000 mostly indigenous people exterminated, children and all, thrown down wells to poison them so repopulation couldn’t happen quickly. Oh, and active supporting South African racism and Chilean mass-murders of suspected “Leftists” at the same time.
The facts in Guatemala are admitted by the National Truth & Reconciliation Commission, Catholic Church, UN, most respected historians. I asked FI only if he supported the Tico/Guatemalan Genocide, he refused to reply.
But on this issue we are allies, if only allies of convenience. Oh but to be clear I do think the Fascist German state will Cancel the AFD, they’ll never be allowed to take power.
As in USA, the political spectrum is confined to Hardcore Fascist and slightly pretend Center-Not Left Fascist.