Open Thread

Anecdotal insights into Obama, John Kerry, and Joe Biden:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nyo1-1muNA

A couple of threads back I speculated mainly based on interpolation about the sociability of rats based on what I knew about studies of mice, highly empathetic critters. Lo and behold, earlier this morning I was catching up on the April 2025 issue of “Harper’s” and a journalist named Laura Marris had a 2 page piece on a neuroscience program developed by a couple of researchers well-named as Coffee and Marx, something called “DeepSqueak” to record and attempt to decipher rat vocalizations.

My intuition was correct (pretty sure the Norweigan Rat is one of the most widely diffused mammals on the planet, amazing survival abilities in a majority of environments), studying the “complex social calls”, a variety of results claim that when playing with one another in mock battles, “wrestling, chasing and exploring”, one specific trilling call is compared to human laughter, as the lab scientists note that when they “tickle” rats, the same trill is seen . . . The earlier belief that there were 14 different calls broadened to 18, and there are some amazing subtleties. Like other social species, there are calls to warn of predators in certain areas, and “a rat in distress will emit a mix of positive and alarm calls to secure the aid of another rat, rather than just using calls of panic.” Interesting. Signaling abilities are varied, at one point Ms. Marris compares rat signaling to “when a marlin hunting in a group rapidly brightens its stripes to signal that it’s going in for an attack” on prey.
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Now as to DC’s share viz Michael Steele, why would I give a fuck or waste even 10 seconds of my life looking at that Uncle Tom, bourgeois black Republican? What a bore. Do you watch Mitt Romney videos also? If I want to horrify myself with black insane influencers, I much prefer someone really wild, sleazy and sometimes self-hating. Willie Brown, a gleefully corrupt San Francisco plutocrat who launched Kamala’s career when she was a sex-worker 3 decades his junior was always good for a few laughs. My dad once tried to interest me in the works of Thomas Sowell, he’d actually bought a book from his National Review Book Club, that man hates the shit out of the majority of black Americans, he is as Negrophobic (to use an older term that spellcheck dislikes) as the likes of Uncle Clarence Thomas, just in slightly different ways. Sowell wanted black economic self-determination as did Malcolm X, though I’m sure Malcolm was anathema to him. When my dad just showed me the book I burst out laughing in his face.

By the way, talking about my late father’s racism in previous threads I don’t want to oversimplify or turn him into a cartoon character. He was a salesman-gladhander type and extremely arrogant once he’d made his first million. (He pissed away a lot of it in scams in later life, once he’d retired and sold his company; “you can’t cheat an honest man.”) I don’t think my father was predatory in the way a Trump is, I believe that for the most part when he sold insurance he sincerely believed it was a win-win transaction from which his clients would also benefit. My dad could be extremely emotional when triggered, but he eschewed psychos who went too far over time. For instance, he loved Trump’s trolling in the first term, but the day after the Jan. 6 Cosplay revolt he completely rejected Trump, told the whole family so. I’m sure the chants of “Hang Mike Pence” and attacking Capitol police revolted him, as well as Confederate Flags or the “Auschwitz: 6 Million Served” T-shirt. (And we never discussed it but I’d bet he found Pence’s Bronze Age misogynist religiosity as absurd as I do.) He’d turned against Nixon on Watergate as soon as the “Smoking Gun” tape was released, when something got too blatant he could respond with reasonableness.

Dad was a hardened right-winger, but he never kept guns in the house, he respected women (he grew up in a matriarchy, his father was very frail and his tough Irish mom ran the household, spoiled middle child and only male, with 4 sisters on either side of him.) Character is often nuanced, and though he literally threatened my life when I was 19, forcing me out of college and out of the nest (a big favor that I took full advantage of), we mostly reconciled over time.

Harking back to the splintering of the Right (previously the institutional Right, including segregationist Biden were entirely sympathetic to the Zionist Exterminationist project) over Zio-Supremacy, I think DC is confused about and conflates anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in his response, thank Capelin for making a valid point. I have read a ton of history, as a child and later in life I was obsessed with the history of the ancient Mediterranean world including Palestine, and trying to sort out “who killed Rabbi Yeshua” into a simple answer is a fool’s errand. Yes, the religious hierarchy, per Josephus’ near-contemporary account, very badly wanted him dead, I found Reza Aslan’s “Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus Christ” to be overall well-researched and convincing. (Even after I read a lot of the “professional” “experts” in the field attacking his take on various points.) There were tons of Messiahs who all met the fate of Yeshua over the years, sometimes targeted by the Religious Caste and other times by the Romans. Neatly assigning blame in this case is pointless, clearly as a “Miracle Worker” Yeshua was very popular in most of the community, but overturning money-changers’ tables in the Temple and freeing the sacrificial animals, doves, cattle and whatnot was serious heresy.

As to Anti-semitism as a historical phenomena, it clearly originates over centuries in Europe, an “alien” people in their midst, with incomprehensible rites and beliefs (despite the Old Testament!) Hatred of Jews per se was a complex prejudice based on economic issues as well as cultural reasons. The hatred of the Muslim Kingdoms and efforts of the Crusades to steal back the “Holy Land” which the Ashkenazi invaders took up more successfully with the help of the Anglo-Americans and other Europeans (esp. the genocidal Germans, repaying one genocide against the Jews with another one against the Canaanites) in recent times is just a bad rerun of vicious sectarianism.

The economic masters are clear though: Jews are good now, a true meritocracy, Muslims, like black people and Latinos, are racially and culturally inferior and should be expelled or crushed. (Trump of course makes an exception for the jihadi and Wahhabi dictatorships his family is invested with, they are the “good” Muslims.) Although Turkiye is a NATO member in good standing, they were NEVER allowed into the EU, despite a tiny sliver of Turkish territory in Europe, ‘coz certain swarthy types are never welcomed in “the Garden.”

I admit that since I left the Bay Area in 2021 I would never dare to claim direct knowledge of what American Black folks think of Trump, MAGA or other factors. I had a pretty clear handle on it up to 2021 due to the large # of black co-workers I knew, e.g. that of 25 people I knew well, only one considered Kamala to be “black.” I have known a lot of Native people, most slightly, as there are large populations in Minnesota and in New Mexico, obviously. Not being forced into regular social congress via the workplace, and those groups being somewhat insular by choice, I cannot claim special knowledge of their opinions, beyond the fact that both here and in Texas (as shown in local elections recently) ICE is strongly hated and feared.

I used to suspect from the large #s of shared posts from DC on whatever weird name he calls American blacks, he might be better informed viz the community than I am. He does apparently live in Michigan. (My mother grew up just outside of Detroit, my maternal grandfather was a well-paid mechanical engineer during the WW II era. My mother’s people, despite brown skin, were from a far higher economic caste than dad’s side.)

The comments on Michael Steele connecting to the Buddha are so ridiculous, even as a joke, that I will no longer take DC serious on “black” anything.

Going back to the Zio-Split thread, I strongly sympathize with Bob’s take. Were I Jewish (there was some argument in the family; I knew I definitely wasn’t on dad’s side, my maternal grandmother had a Dutch “Jewish” name, but 0% showed up in my 23&Me, I’ll rely on genomics above patronymic names) I certainly would’ve been “self-hating”, though thankfully I learned the truth in time. I differ with Bob’s take that anti-Zionist Jews are a drop in the bucket, however, there are more Christian Zionists in the world than Jewish Supremacists (the Jewish populace of the world being actually tiny). The Jewish communities in Iran certainly aren’t Zionist, Russian Jews unfortunately are largely pro-genocide. “It’s complicated” is true up to a point, but no, the Genocide itself has Zero Justification and must, as the 3rd Reich, be cast into Marx’s “dustbin of history.”

And Trump is helping that to happen, another reason to be glad that Kamala failed so badly, we’re getting the blood-red rivers version and not the “I feel bad about killing all the children, but–” whitewash from the Friendly Facism Libs.

The Simpsonwood meeting is a private meeting the CDC, and 50+ other experts had in 2000.

(Note: due do to how the control find function works only a portion of each quote will be in quotation marks in order to find it. Only things in parethesis are not quotes)

“let me just reemphasize if i could the” importance of trying to protect the information that we have been talking about. As many of you know, we are invited here. We have asked you to keep this information confidential. basically consider this embargoed information (page 113)

“My mandate as I sit here in this group is to make sure at the” end of the day that 100,000,000 are immunized with DTP, Hepatitis B, and if possible Hib, this year, next year, and for many years to come, (page 248)

there is an association between mercury and the endpoints (autism, ADHD, and NDD)
leads me to favor a recommendation that infants up to two years old not be immunized with Thimerosal containing vaccines (page 199)
“I do not want that (his) grandson to get a Thimerosal” containing vaccine (page 199-200)

“Analysis to date raise some concerns of a possible dose-“response with thimersoal in vaccines and neurological diseases. (page 2)

(Thimerosal) is recognized to cross “the blood-brain barrier”
It is “primarily recognized as a cause of hypersensitivity.” it can cause neurologic and renal toxicity (page 15)

“being a nephrologist for a long time, the” potential for aluminum and central nervous system toxicity was well established by dialysis data. To think there isn’t some possible problem here is unreal (page 24-25)

“In conclusion, the screening analysis suggests a possible” association between certain neurologic developmental disorders. Namely Tics, attention deficit disorder, speech and language disorders and exposure to mercury from Thimerosal containing vaccines (page 50)

Dr Brent: “Wasn’t it true that if you looked at the population that had” 25 micrograms you had a certain risk and when you got to 75 micrograms you had a higher risk… What is your explanation?
Dr Verstraeten: (provides 3 hypothesis one of which) “it’s true, it’s Thimerosal”
Dr Brent: If it is true, which or what mechanisms would you explain the finding with?
Dr Verstraeten: When I saw this, and I went back through the literature, I was actually stunned by what I saw because I thought it is plausible.
(For a whole page Vertraeten lists studies showing how Thimerosal causes damage to the brain) (page 161-162)

(They are talking about the Verstraeten study and it’s results. After this secret meeting in Simpsonwood they would revise the study 7 times before releasing it. The orginal abstract is at the end.
Compared to the unexposed group the highest exposed group had a 7.6 times higher rate of autism and other neugological developmental disorders) (2)

there is adequate “consistency, biological plausibility, lack of relationship” with phenomenon not expected to be related, and a potential causal role that is as good as any other hypothesized etiology of explanation of the noted associations. In addition, the possibility that the associations could be causal has major significance for public and professional acceptance of Thimerosal containing vaccines. I think that is a critical issue. Finally, a lack of further study would be horrendous grist for the anti-vaccination bill. That’s why we need to go on, and urgently I would add. (page 187)

“There is a lot of things in those” vaccinations other than mercury, and we don’t know if this is a vaccination effect or a mercury effect (page 192)

“Because we heard yesterday from the” CIs that the aluminum will correlate just as well as mercury with these results
(Some vaccines still have mercury but most now have aluminum instead)

The “epidemiological data is valid, as is the associations that” were reported. It is more difficult, if not impossible, to refute a causal association (page 205)

“The number of dose related relationships are linear and” statistically significant
The rise in the frequency of neurobehavioral disorders … We don’t see that kind of genetic change in 30 years. (page 207-208)

“I don’t think we have seen any evidence that the causal” agent, if there is one, is Thimerosal and not some other constituent of the vaccine. (page 211)

there is “an association between outcomes and vaccination and that worries” (everyone)
We keep jumping back to Thimerosal, but a number of us are concerned that Thimerosal may be less likely than some of the other potential associations that have been made. Some of the other potential associations are number of injections, number of antigens, other additives. (page 231-232)

“I would think most people” around the room would argue that these are biologically plausible outcomes potentially related to mercury (page 233)

“You have to add smallpox and IPV. In fact, one of the” studies from the perinatal project suggested an increased risk of tumors in the off spring of parents” (page 234)

(1) https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/The-Simpsonwood-Documents.pdf
(2) https://vaccine-safety.s3.amazonaws.com/CDC_FOIA_Response_UnpublishedStudy.pdf
(3) https://truthsnitch.com/2019/05/01/excerpts-from-the-transcript-of-the-cdcs-private-simpsonwood-meeting/

Some time ago Carborundum wrote that he guessed most of the Canadian farmers coming to the Acres USA conference would be from Alberta because pro-boycott sentiment was weaker there. He guessed that they were from the Peace River area of Alberta and in the case of the farmer I have met at each conference for years, he is correct.

I have an about 250 square foot garden. To me, a hundred acre farm seems big. A thousand acre farm seems very big. A 5,000 acre farm seems very very big. So farms from 10,00 to 30,000 acres apiece seem like a whole other level of huge to me.

As the situation worsens Canadians may well start tracking eachothers’ loyalty to the boycott. They may not, but then again they may. So I am not going to mention Farmer X’s name. Here is a copy-pasted statement from Farmer X’s website about Farmer X’s farming mission and purpose.

” (Redacted) Farm is a holistic-managed, ecological, organic grass-based farm located near Peace River in northern Alberta, Canada. We raise grass fed cattle and sheep, and we grow alfalfa seed and hay. A combination of grass finishing genetics and grazing management allows us to offer some of the most tasty and nutritious beef and lamb.

Our farm is certified organic and we strive to build healthy mineral balanced soils that feed healthy diverse pastures. Our humane animal husbandry practices include spring/summer calving and lambing on grass, low-stress handling, and natural weaning.

We offer grass fed beef and lamb for sale from August – October. Orders are taken throughout the year. Our beef and lamb is custom cut and packaged to your specifications at a local abattoir.”

That reads to me like Farmer X runs a small, almost “artisanal” farm and certainly not one of the truly huge bulk commodity agricultural farms in either Prairie Canada or Alberta ( supposing Alberta is considered different than Prairie Canada; which I, perhaps wrongly, would think that it is considered different than.) So would Farmer X be possibly MAGA-friendly the way one supposes the huge operators might well be? I did not ask, and have not even asked the sort of indirect political questions which might allow me to guess or even have a feeling about it.

Carborundum himself grew up in/around the huge wheat-growing farms of Saskatchewan ( if I remember correctly) and would know about that in detail. As a mere amateur layman gardener, I would only know what little I have read or been told.
He noted that agriculture requires inputs, and that he has been in parts of the world where he has seen starvation, and that inputs is way preferrable to that.

As a mere layman, I can only venture to say that there is a question as to what kind of inputs and which particular inputs within what system of farming might be a good thing. There are petrochemical, soluble-salt, etc. inputs within the mainstream system and then again there are considered-to-be ecologically and biologically correct and non-harmful inputs within the varous organic systems. I don’t think any organic farmers try going zero-inputs, at least for the most part.

I know that some working-professional organic farmers in the US are claiming yields comparable to the yields of their petrochemical neighbors. I have not seen these claims debunked. Maybe they yet will be in the future. A few couple of these farmers are perennial presenters at the Acres USA conferences. Their farms range from about 1,000 acres to about 5,000 acres big; which to me seems big to huge. But nothing like the 10,000-30,000 acre farms in Prairie Canada.

I am guessing Farmer X will be at the next Acres USA conference in Iowa City, Iowa.
I will again see how many Canadian farmers are attending, how many appear to be from Alberta, how many are from other provinces. ( All us attendees ask eachother where we are from, what we grow, etc. I make clear early on that I am a tiny backyard gardener so they can decide right from the start how much they want to talk to me or not).

One of our fellow commenters enjoyed sneering at Zohran Mamdani’s idea of Municipal Grocery Stores.

Here is an article I found through Naked Capitalism called:
” How City-Owned Grocery Stores Can Tackle Food Insecurity
As private grocers abandon low-income neighborhoods, Zohran Mamdani’s public ownership proposal offers a solution to market failures.

ARTICLES
AUGUST 05, 2025
by Omar Ocampo and Maya Khadr ”

https://inequality.org/article/how-city-owned-grocery-stores-can-tackle-food-insecurity/

About the decline of the US: Ironically, Steve Denning made a 9 part feature in Forbes about the stupidity of outsourcing as early as 2011. In part 5 he said everything about the national security implications of it. But it seems that the political establishment was blind and deaf.

See https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/08/17/why-amazon-cant-make-a-kindle-in-the-usa/