The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

I Try To Avoid The Word Genocide

—because it’s vastly over-used. Most things are not genocide, even some events were believe are (the Holodomar) are not. Genocide is the deliberate killing of mass numbers of specific ethnicity because they are that ethnicity.

Now, I’ve always been very concerned for Palestinians and Israelis because there is no way for Israel to remain a “Jewish” state in the long run without getting rid of the Palestinians. One option is ethnic cleansing. The other is genocide.

The sane solution is to make everyone a citizen and give up on blood citizenship, but that wouldn’t be a “Jewish state”.

Israel has bombed Gaza plenty in the past. It’s sickening and evil and collective punishment and all those bad things. They’ve also engaged in ethnic cleansing repeatedly, that’s part of why so many Palestinians are packed into Gaza.

But they’ve stopped short of genocide.

Now here’s the thing which isn’t being emphasized about the current attack on Gaza: all water has been cut off and the water infrastructure has been bombed. Much of Gaza’s water comes from “Israel”, much comes from desalinization (which requires electricity), and while some comes from wells and there is one stream in Gaza (it doesn’t make it to river) there simply isn’t enough water. Palestinians do have a lot of cisterns, but they will run out soon.

You die fast without water.

And Israel has been attacking any relief convoys trying to come from the Egyptian side.

Israel is mowing the grass — killing as many civilians as they can. That’s the plan and they’ve been open about it. The US, of course, is helping.

Days like these it’s hard to disagree with Iran when it screams about America being the “great Satan”. (For the record, I am not a fan of Iran. I am a believer in secular society with equality between the sexes and so on.)

If there isn’t a climb-down from this monstrous nonsense, we’re in danger of seeing Israel commit a genocide, aided by much of the West.

Much is still in play, including possible entry of Hezbollah, Iran and Syria. Israel’s army is performing pathetically, with Hamas soldiers still able to attack into Israel and running gun battles.

But Israel is on course to lose its soul. You don’t “mow the grass” or commit genocide because about a 1,000 people were killed after you’ve spent over 70 years killing another people at loss ratios of over 10:1, while stealing and living in their homes and on what was their land.

Well, actually, you often do. America certainly did, squealing about Indian atrocities (which definitely happened) even as it committed greater ones.

I do not expect Israel, as a Jewish state, to exist in 50 years, and that is whether or not they genocide Gaza. It may end much, much sooner.

But the end of Jewish Israel will be a lot less violent and bloody if they do not go full Nazi first.

This is not America or Germany, this a tiny country surrounded by the co-religionists of the people they are massacring.

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Thinking About A Hezbollah Intervention


Avoiding Mass Ethnic Cleansing Or Genocide In Gaza


  1. Tallifer

    I just read that Israel is negotiating with Egypt to allow refugees into Egypt. Egypt of course wants to send supplies, but Israel just wants a safe passage to expel Palestinians.

  2. Willy

    I’m wondering how much longer the American taxpayer will tolerate this. All this ‘wealthy increasingly paying less tax in exchange for increasing power’ shit can’t go on forever. Plus the ‘End of Days’ crowd, the folks who need that temple rebuilt, seem to be shrinking in number, especially after their Dear Leaders removed greed, corruption, and climate change off their Revelations prophecy checklist. I even saw street preacher wearing a “Repent Now The End Is Nigh” sandwich board being called a woke Marxist.

    America’s all Israel’s got. If America quits, it’s hard to imagine who else is gonna step up to compensate. This seems as tenuous as celebrating secular debauchery at a psy trance festival a couple miles from some seriously pissed-off fenced-in ghetto poverty.

  3. elkern

    Yes, usually what people call genocide is “merely” ethnic cleansing.

    Tallifer’s link (above) includes an interesting quote:

    “Israel’s ambassador to Egypt, Amira Oron, wrote in Arabic on X, formerly Twitter, that her country has no plans to force Palestinians to flee their Gaza homes and settle in Sinai.”

    I find this hard to believe, because pushing the [surviving] population of Gaza into Egypt would be the simplest, cheapest (in lives, money, and time), and least genocidal “final solution” to the problem of Hamas attacks from Gaza. Of course, Egypt *really* doesn’t want responsibility for housing, feeding, and policing 2+ million [more] Palestinians. The article hints that the USA is trying to broker a deal (“In Washington, US national security adviser Jake Sullivan said late on Tuesday that his country is talking with Israel and Egypt about a possible safe passage for Gaza’s civilians.”); I suppose a few [more] $B per year to bribe Egypt to go along with the plan is a bargain, compared to US complicity in causing 2 million people to die of thirst.

    If the plan really is to force the Gazans into Egypt, it would show up as a pattern of Israel’s bombing of Gaza: a Rolling Thunder kinda thing, starting in the Northeast and rolling Southwest, pushing people towards Rafah. At some point, the Egyptians border garrison would be overwhelmed (even if they are willing to shoot fleeing families), and the Gazans would flood across the border.

    Does anybody have links for maps of where IAF bombs are hitting?

    Bonus language question: is there a word for causing someone to die of thirst (analogous to “starving” someone)?

  4. Geoffrey Dewan

    “If you just have to have a drink of water go to Egypt. ”

    Looks like they’re taking a two pronged approach- ethnic cleansing or genocide.

    No more Mr. Nice Guy…

  5. Ian Welsh

    Well, the deranged comments are flying thick and furious into the deleted folder. From both sides: apparently I am not sufficiently pro-Hamas and by saying Israel ethnic cleanses but has not yet committed genocide I am excusing Israel. Meanwhile to others, of course, I am a terrorist apologist.

    Of particular amusement is the idea that I am OK with how Palestinians are treated. Some people can’t read.

    Some previous articles on Israel/Palestine/Hamas:

  6. KT Chong

    About eight years ago in 2015 or 2016, the West started talked about Uyghur for the first time. The mainstream media started out by using a ridiculous term, “cultural genocide”, (whatever that was supposed to mean,) to accuse what China was committing on the ethnic Muslims in Xinjiang.

    Then, over the next few years, slowly and gradually, the Western media started to drop the word “cultural” from the genocide allegations against China. So “cultural genocide” became just “genocide”. The West started equating “cultural” genocide with real genocide, and the two became interchangeable.

    Then, the West started accusing China of rounding up and sneding Ugyhur to reeducation, internment or prison camps. That is “genocide” as well because, as far as I know, the West has not been able to credibly accuse or find evidences of China executing Ugyhur en masse or sending Ugyhur to gas chambers. In fact, I still have not seen (and I have gone out of my way to look for it) the West being able to produce any name or list of Uyghur who has been murdered in the so-called “genocide”.

    And then, of course, now the trans people are crying, whining and screaming about how they are the victims of a “genocide”. Apparently, if they are not allowed to indoctrinate, convert and seduce young children, then that must be a “genocide”. So that is another new, expanded definition of “genocide”.

    So right now genocide does not even require rounding up people and putting them into camps. It is moving towards “you are hurting my feeling so it is a genocide!”

    So much for, “genocide”.

  7. KT Chong

    And don’t forget about “white genocide”. Apparently, white genocide means one of these two things or both:

    1. The mass migrations of brown and black people into Europe and America; (which is self-inflicted: the mass migrations of Arabs and Africans in Europe started after the invasions, occupations and destructions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and particularly Libya. Of course, the migration crisis in America is the long-time karma of a century of US interventions in Central and South America.)

    2. Interracial relationships, specifically between WHITE WOMEN and BLACK MEN (and also BROWN MEN in Europe); Brown and black men shagging white girls, that is committing an atrocious genocide on the white race.

    On the other hand, white men hooking up with Asian girls (which is actually the most common type of interracial relationshis) is perfectly a-okay. That is totally not a genocide on the white race. Asian men are not calling it a “genocide on the Asian races”; even though by the logic of those white people, it could be considered as white men committing a genocide on Asians, (i.e., those white people who think “white genocide” is a real thing.)

    When I first googled and read about “what is white genocide”, I thought that no way so many white people could be that stupid and delusional. Well, apparently they seriously that stupid and delusional.

    …. so many stupid genocides, so little time to care and give a damn about them.

  8. Z

    The forty Israeli babies beheaded by Hamas claim has yet to be formally confirmed. In fact, it’s been walked back quite a bit and now it’s a someone says story.

    Anyway, how would Hamas find forty babies to decapitate? I haven’t read or heard that they seized any hospitals or pediatric clinics, something I’d imagine would have been part of the story if that indeed did happen. And if they didn’t raid a hospital’s maternity ward or a pediatric clinic and the forty babies were not all in one place then that would mean that Hamas went door to door through probably at least a hundred Israeli houses to find forty babies. We’re supposed to believe that this breadth of slaughter is unconfirmed and there aren’t any photos of it yet on the internet? If the Israelis have proof of this it would certainly be to their advantage to share it.

    The production team of Weekend at Biden’s trotted out their Lead Stiff to toss in his zero sense …

    “I … I’ve been doing this a long time. I never really thought that I would … see … and have confirmed … pictures of terrorists beheading children. I never thought I’d ever … anyway …”

    If the scriptwriters of Weekend at Biden’s indeed know of “pictures of terrorists beheading children” then they ought to have the U.S. intelligence agencies confirm it rather than trot out their old stage whore to read their lines.

    In my view, the aim of this story is to dehumanize the Palestinians … Are you on Israel’s side or the savages that cut off babies’ heads? … so the world will “understand” why Israel “has to” butcher Palestinians with their bombs, some of which, probably most, are provided by the U.S., and why it’s OK that Israel collectively punish and potentially kill Palestinians by depriving them of living necessities.


  9. Z

    Apparently, the claim is that the forty babies were supposedly from a kibbutz, which is a collective agricultural community.


  10. mago

    Seems to me that Ian generally takes a balanced, compassionate and humanitarian response to the good the bad and the ugly.
    Wow. Negative thoughts and emotions have ramped into overdrive around this, both on the ground and among the commentariat.
    Harsh and heartbreaking.

  11. Z

    Now the production team of Weekend at Biden’s is claiming that the Lead Stiff (him/was) supposedly misspoke … or was misunderstood somehow. Or something …


  12. Willy

    Maybe our more extreme commenters should review a history of Hamas and Gaza?
    My shorter version.

    Gazans were once used like illegals in the USA to do odd jobs which wealthy conservatives were too greedy to pay Israelis for (while of course publicly bitching about their own Dems never building a wall).

    Then Hamas arrived. Imagine MS-13 except without the tats and drugs. Sadly, there would be no Bill Clinton to send them all back to El Salvador, or even an El Salvador willing to build mega prisons in which to house them.

    And so Israel’s version of La migra embarked on a policy of bombing the crap out of the barrios in which they lived. Imagine East LA, Pacoima and Pico Rivera continuously being laid waste just to punish MS-13, and then those places getting walled off to keep anybody from escaping the next round of bombings.

    Since it’s hard to get an economy going with all the little businesses getting blown away every couple years, the menfolk found other things to do, like digging smuggling tunnels and playing terrorist video games all day. Even worse, since it’s about as difficult for regular Palestinian menfolk to kick out Hamas as it is for a hundred Uvalde “good guys with guns” to take out one heavily armed teenager, a downward spiral ensued prompting mullahs to get involved. And not the good kind either.

    Now maybe our more extreme commenters can now offer suggestions going forward?

  13. VietnamVet

    Unless the US constitutional democracy is restored, secular humanists will shortly be collateral damage in the firefights of the escalating ethnic Holy Abrahamic Wars. God will do the sorting. Already there are several thousand fewer abortions in North Carolina since Roe v. Wade was overturned.

    South Asians were ruled by outsider Muslims and Christians. Ethnic and caste tensions are increasing due to the religious political parties. Only strong borders will keep Indians, Pakistanis, Bengali, Rohingya, Burmese, and Chinese in semi-peace. What is stirring the pot and making the world highly unstable and human extinction likely are Globalist Oligarchs who profit from war. Just like the pharmaceutical moguls who profited from the coronavirus pandemic. To rule their corporate-state Empires, they are splintering apart their own homelands with Mal-education plus For-profit healthcare, trashing the middle class, and importing migrant workers. Like the British before, minorities are being placed in top political positions, since they are dependent on the Empire to stay in power. Middle East terrorists are called populists.

    It is obvious that the Palestinians will not be relocated into a secure reservation. Moving them to Egypt spreads the violence there. For the Chosen People, the Samson Option is always a possibility — a nuclear Masada. At the same time, only an armistice and DMZ on the current line of contact can stabilize Ukraine and avoid a NATO Russian nuclear exchange.

  14. Troy

    Ian, bluntly speaking, you’ve done a poor job at articulating your position.

    Historically, has Israeli apartheid been intended to eliminate the Palestinian people? (In the crime of genocide, intention is absolutely important.)

    No. Apartheid was set-up either through accident or deliberate policy to dominate but not exterminate the Palestinians. Historically, that is.

    Lately though, it’s been crossing that threshold that delineates Genocide from Crimes Against Humanity.

    Regardless, Israel’s apartheid policies have been so brutal that many Israeli politicians and military leaders should be investigated and tried for Crimes Against Humanity. As well as their financial backs around the world who’ve propagated the further extremism of the Israeli state policy of apartheid.

  15. Ian Welsh

    Ethnic cleansing was implicit in the creation of Israel and ethnic cleansing has continued for the entire history. This is not even possible to dispute.

    The point that it has not turned into outright genocide, yet, is a fairly simple one.

    I will leave the quibbling over when it turned into full blown apartheid to others. Both Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela indicated it was an apartheid state and I think they would know.

  16. StewartM


    Excellent article. And thank you for enlightening me on the difference between “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing” (though the latter often morphs into the former; remember, Hitler shared with previous anti-semites the goal of driving the Jews out of Europe to their own separate “homeland”–Madagascar was often cited, but there were others–before deciding to murder them all).

    There are many ironies to this tragic saga, which is how Zionism niches nicely with the goals of Nazism and other anti-semites (i.e., Jews should go FAR away from ‘us’ to live in their own separate ‘homeland’), how in creating this ‘homeland’ the Jews are actually ‘cleansing’ the humans who are the closest people left alive to the ancient Hebrews they claim to so revere, and how Israel is lauded as ‘the only democracy’ in the Middle East yet practices ethnic cleansing.

    Finally, how if anyone suggested that any other group with a history of persecution be encouraged to move to a separate far-away ‘homeland’ (say, Marcus Garvey who suggested that African-Americans return to their ‘homeland’ in Africa in the 1920s, and was supported by the KKK) they would be attacked as intolerant if not racists. But with Israel, if you say “No, Jews should be protected, be welcomed, and have full and equal rights in their countries of birth” instead of supporting Israel, you’re attacked as anti-Semitic. Me, I don’t want American Jews migrating to Israel, I want them to feel welcome here.

    KT Chong– your observation of black men and white women is spot-on. We now see in the DNA evidence that people who have both African and European ancestry actually have a slight bias toward “black male, white woman” ancestry versus the “white male, black woman” that was expected from slavery (i.e., white slaveowners shagging black slave women). This is opposite, say, of people who share Native American and European ancestry (90 % white male + native woman).

    And indeed, W. E. B. Dubois wrote that most of the black men who were lynched on charges of raping white women were actually involved in consensual relationships. But to white men, a white woman could never consent to sex with a black man, so it was ‘rape’ by definition.

  17. Feral Finster

    @ Willy “I’m wondering how much longer the American taxpayer will tolerate this. ”

    Forget the taxpayer, they’ll print money if they have to. Ask how long the American bondholder will tolerate this.

  18. Feral Finster

    @VietnamVet: “South Asians were ruled by outsider Muslims and Christians.”

    I can’t think of any South Asian Christian dynasties, at least if by “South Asia”, you mean “the Indian subcontinent”.

    I can think of former African slaves who wielded power and founded dynasties in South Asia, I can even think of Jain dynasties (how *does* a Jain take power?) and Hindu and Buddhist dynasties by the dozens, but I cannot think of any Christian rulers in South Asia, or in Asia at all before colonialism.

  19. Soredemos

    It hasn’t been genocide up to this point because Israel doesn’t care if Palestinians exist or not. They just don’t want them to exist in land Zionists claim as their own. Palestinians can do whatever they want, so long as it’s elsewhere.

    Things may eventually escalate to full blown genocide as a ‘final solution to the Palestinian question’. And yes, I’m using that inflammatory phrasing very deliberately. I truly mean it. Any hasbara trolls who pass through can feel free to attack me however you want. I don’t like you. I don’t like your ideology. I don’t like your parasite country. You’re Nazi-lite, and have been for decades. It remains to be seen whether Israel escalates to the point of full blown historical cosplay.

  20. Allison

    Ocasio-Cortez says pro-Palestinian demonstrations should be “shut down” as opposition to Israeli war crimes :

    UK Palestine Groups To Defy Suella Braverman’s Crackdown:

    UK Policy paper: Nationality and Borders Bill: Deprivation of citizenship factsheet

    Deprivation of citizenship where it is conducive to the public good is reserved for those who pose a threat to the UK or whose conduct involves very high harm, for example in response to activities such as those involving:

    national security including espionage and acts of terrorism
    unacceptable behaviour such as the ‘glorification’ of terrorism
    war crimes
    serious organised crime

    No worries, though – it’s used “sparingly,” it complies with some (unenforeable) UN “conventions,” and the “Home Secretary” has your back:

    “In such cases the power is used sparingly and complies with the UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. The Home Secretary decides each case personally.”

  21. maurice samuel's destroyers

    Zionism niches nicely with the goals of Nazism and other anti-semites

    This is misleading. The tenets that led to political Zionism well predated Nazism.

    Think the term “anti-semite” should go away. It’s only utility is for character assassination.

  22. Carborundum

    I don’t think the water situation is necessarily going to work out the way people seem to think. Somewhere between five to ten percent of potable water comes from Israel, with the rest mainly coming from groundwater within Gaza. Substantially all of this groundwater needs to be desalinated to be potable – most comes from a network of generally small-scale private providers, with the balance coming from a few much larger public sector plants. These larger desalination plants draw at least some of their power from independent supplies – as, I suspect, will most of the independent plants given the intermittent nature of Gaza’s power grid.

    Overall, I don’t think this is necessarily the fast-acting, omnipotent driver many observers (both Israeli- and Palestinian-aligned) view it as. Analytically, I’ll be keeping my eye on those larger plants – what happens with them is likely going to be determinative. I can find lots of reporting about damage to one of them (I think there may have only been one operating at the time) from 2021, but nothing more current. Given the amount of water storage previous Israeli constraints have led people to invest procure, I suspect this is not going to bite as fast as we might assume.

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