The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Why Sanders Supporters Care So Much

Bernie Sanders

Sanders supporters have a reputation for being passionate. Some of that reputation is unearned, a simple attempt by the establishment to pretend they are uniquely aggressive.

But some of it is true, and it’s true for a simple reason.

Sanders followers believe he is the only candidate who will fight to get them universal health care and student loan relief, They feel their lives are at risk, because they can’t afford health care, and student loans are so heavy many of them, or their children or friends can never expect to have a good life.

In other words, Bernie’s followers are scared for their lives, and of having terrible lives, and when someone gets in the way of what they see as their only real chance of not having to be scared, they get angry.

This is exactly what you would expect. “Oh, I’m sorry you might die because of lack of healthcare but other issues are more important” is the sort of argument which doesn’t fly. “Your death and miserable life matter less than my pet issue.”

This is why, in particular, many Sanders followers are angriest at Warren, who has recently repeatedly attacked Sanders.

This is normal behaviour for a politician in a race, but they don’t see it first as a race where people are competing to become president. Instead it is a movement to get people health care, cancel student loans and tackle climate change. Warren was seen as part of that movement, as an ally, and the competition was only to see whether it would be Warren or Bernie as the nominee.

For Warren to attack Bernie is to say “my personal ambition is more important than saving all of these lives and making so many lives better.”

That’s the Sanders supporters emotional logic. Especially since it often reads as “you need health care or you might die, but I think something is more important than whether you live or die.”

Every candidate has an emotional message. Sander is “not me, us.” It’s not about him, it’s about saving other people. So to attack him, as someone who is an ally, isn’t an attack on Bernie, it’s an attack on those who support Bernie’s plan to save lives.

Thus the anger at Warren.

Warren’t emotional logic is “I’ve got a plan for that.” Her claim is that she’s the most competent candidate (the logic that Hillary ran on, actually). She appeals to technocrats and many women who find her journey resonates with them the same way Clinton’s did.

Biden’s emotional logic is “back to the Obama administration, life was more or less OK then, right?” Plus a bit of emotional appeal as the inappropriate but essentially well-meaning uncle. Yeah, he puts his arm around everyone, but he doesn’t mean anything by it.

Warren and Biden are competing on who is the best candidate, Sanders is leading a movement to save lives and make a lot of lives much much better. Warren was seen as an ally, she is believed to have equivocated on the most important goals like Medicare For All and Student Debt Relief, and she then attacked Sanders, as if they weren’t on the same side.

Such people, emotionally, are considered traitors, and traitors are always despised far more than honest enemies.

Bernie leads a movement, not a political campaign. His followers are angry because they are literally scared for the lives and the lives of those they love.  His movement is about other people, not about his ambition.

Remember that Bernie asked Warren to run in 2015 and only ran when she, triangulating, chose not to. If she had accepted, she’d be where he is, because she didn’t, he is

Sanders ran for other people, not for himself.

So when Warren or anyone else attacks Bernie, it’s seen as an attack on “us” and our odds of living and having decent lives, not as an attack on Bernie.

That’s why attacks on Bernie are taken personally by people other than Bernie.

They aren’t attacks on Bernie, they’re attacks on the movement he leads.

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Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – March 1, 2020


Super Tuesday


  1. Stirling S Newberry

    This is an election where the establishment runs a candidate without a clue about being president. The establishment voter are OK with that.

  2. anon

    I do not see the vitriol among “Bernie Bros” that is discussed so much about on mainstream media. I am not on Twitter, but I am on numerous pro-Bernie groups on Reddit. What I see isn’t much different from the typical insults that can be found on any candidate’s supporter pages. Yes, Bernie supporters are passionate for the reasons you have stated. That is very different from sending people death threats, as many Bernie surrogates women of color have received. The MSM is trying to make people believe that Bernie Bros. are equivalent to Trump supporters or alt-right Nazis, which is absolutely not the case.

    As for Warren, what she decides to do in the coming weeks will impact her standing with the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. I was always wary of her true intentions. She was, after all, a Republican for most of her life. She lied about her ethnicity to get climb the academic career ladder, and I am not sure if she would be where she is today without having lied about her heritage. Despite her past transgressions, a part of me believed that she and Bernie would make the best team given that there aren’t a lot of progressives in the Democratic Party. After her attempt to smear Sanders as a sexist and her attacks on both him and his supporters, her intentions have become more uncertain, and more Sanders supporters find her untrustworthy.

    My concern is what her game plan is going forward. Will she make a deal with Bernie or Biden and who does she plan to give her delegates to? I don’t see how her reputation among progressives will survive if she continues in the primary only to, as it has been reported, “blunt Sanders momentum.” I personally don’t believe she can be trusted, but I am hoping she does the right thing by not ultimately betraying Sanders and the progressive movement at the convention.

  3. Dave Dell

    In my opinion… Sanders supporters, of which I am one, while probably not thinking of it in these terms, see him as the only President who would make the effort to stop or at least slow the death spiral the promise of a “more perfect union” is currently undergoing.

    I have also given my pittance of a donation to Sen. Warren. 10 months ago it took her campaign a month to cash my check. Didn’t hear from her campaign again until recently. Recently sent another small check. We’ll see if it takes a month to cash this one.

    To contrast, Sen. Sanders campaign sends a thank you post card almost immediately. “Thanks for donation, we’ll put it to good use, stay progressive.” is the gist of the message. Not a request for more money. About once a quarter I get a letter request for a donation with a mailing envelope.

    Living in a blue oasis of a deep red state I would vote for any candidate the Dem’s put up except Bloomberg. If not Sen. Sanders I would hope it would be Sen. Warren. From all the comments I get (I wear my Bernie button on my hat and it sparks a lot of favorable conversations) the Bernie fans I engage with would support Sen. Warren quite enthusiastically.

  4. You are lying anon, goddamned liar, she did not lie about her ethnicity.

    Unsurprising, for one without the courage to put a name on it.

    Just another troll …


    It’s true, Benjamin is the way Benjamin is because he cares so much. To Benjamin, Bernie’s victory is a matter of life & death. Bernie can’t win without a movement of supporters like Benjamin. Benjamin is the rock upon which Bernie’s movement is based.

  6. Joan

    I agree, Ian. So many Millennials that I know are in such a hopeless situation in the US that they are at serious “fuck-it” levels or even somewhat suicidal. If you are working class, in the “gig economy” or in the tenuous lower middle class, with no job if you slide down, then your life is seriously stressful in the US. You can’t seem to dig yourself out. There’s not much hope for the future in terms of ever being able to pay down your debts or work a job that isn’t soul-sucking.

  7. bruce wilder

    I vividly remember an incident where I gleefully quoted AOC saying something clever and pointedly truthful, as is her wont, to a friend and life-long Democrat and expecting appreciation for the remark, but instead the reaction was hostile and grumpy, with some mumbling about AOC wanting the moon.

    There is deeply felt learned helplessness in the Democratic Party, which was hardened when Obama failed to change anything in 2009-10. The young Sanders supporters need policy change and they are up against a Party whose voters are invested in lesser evil calculations and whose politicians are so corrupt they do not want to govern at all.

  8. Willy

    There’s something wrong with the Whos in Whoville.

    What’s next, hunting down Grinches with pop-schlazzlers and bang-diddlies? In the good old days you could take away Christmas and those silly Whos would always find a way to be happy.

    Now things are different. I blame Crazy Bernie and his socialistic-commieradicalblaster machine. Quit making the Whos crazy, Bernie!

    I didn’t entirely make this up. I just re-interpretated what the fake news media has been saying, which of course begs the question: Is the news only fake when the Grinch’s power is threatened? (…or is it not fake?)

  9. Zachary Smith

    When I turned on my computer this morning my first stop was at the Reuters news site. Here is one of the headlines:

    *** Bloomberg’s big bet: Can money beat Biden’s momentum? ***
    {trial run} Bloomberg’s big bet: Can money beat Biden’s momentum?

    When they’re not actively shafting Sanders, they ignore his existence.

    As I’ve repeatedly said, I view Sanders as a deeply flawed candidate. His Administration would screw the Palestinians at least as much as any of the rest, and he has a tradition of being a generic warmonger. A devoted fan of the near-useless F-35. And the man is obviously too old!

    His domestic stances are important but secondary with me – I support the guy because he is the ONLY one with a proposal to do anything useful about Climate Change.

    At the start of the campaign I listed Warren as my #2 choice, but that has gradually changed. The woman seems to have no political skills, and is showing more and more of her life-long Republican roots. I’d still hold my nose and vote for her if the opportunity arose. Probably it won’t, for the DNC is almost certainly going to install a well-behaved and slightly more honest version of Trump as the candidate. That won’t work for me, so I’ll write in some generic name.

  10. nihil obstet

    “Oh, I’m sorry you might die because of lack of healthcare but other issues are more important” is the sort of argument which doesn’t fly. “Your death and miserable life matter less than my pet issue.”

    If I believed this was what they are thinking, I would feel better. But if they have “other issues” or even a “pet issue”, they’re sure keeping quiet about it. They seem to see the outcome of elections like the outcome of the World Series — “We really want our team to win. What’s the best trade we can make for a player?” The Onion had a headline about the DNC asking Trump to run as a Democrat so they could win the election. I was scared that the DNC would think it was a good idea.

    “We’re better than Republicans,” is the only argument they make, with “electability” the decision rule. That there’s something else going on is clear from their imperviousness to polls that show Sanders beating Trump better than other candidates. It seems to just come down to a self-image of membership in the upper class. They don’t have a good mental image of LBJ, Carter, or B. Clinton (redneck Southerners) as opposed to their warmth towards Reagan and the Bushes. They despise Trump because he’s vulgar, as opposed to Bloomberg who properly looks down his nose at everyone. They don’t like Sanders, the shouting working class New Yorker.


    Both Joan and bruce in consecutive comments try to brand and pigeonhole Bernie as only having appeal to the millennials. That’s bullshit. Bernie’s appeal is comprehensive. It’s across the board. It includes, and transcends even, all races, sexes and generations. He’s for all the people all the time.

    My wife and I are both voting for Bernie and we’re not millennials. Our daughter is 21 and she’s voting for Bernie and like us she’s voting Dem all the way down the line so for us Bernie has no stigma on our down ballot votes. Our son, who is 17 but will be 18 when he votes in the general is now eligible and registered to vote and will be voting the same ticket the rest of the family is voting.

    If they steal the nomination from Bernie at a brokered convention, we will write in Bernie as the candidate if our state allows it, and if not we will not vote for the Dem nominee because they will be a thief and a fraud. We will vote for Dems down ballot though. I believe our voting system this year provides paper receipts of our vote. If it does, I will take pics of it to show as proof that I mean what I say unlike some of the jerks who comment here and pretend to be something they are not.


    No matter how hard you try, nihil, Bernie is not Trump. There is no comparison. Trump is a loathsome creature with no redeeming qualities. He’s an abomination.

    They despise Trump because he’s vulgar, as opposed to Bloomberg who properly looks down his nose at everyone. They don’t like Sanders, the shouting working class New Yorker.

    My view of any particular candidate is not predicated on the view or views of the oligarchy. The oligarchy’s opinion of any candidate doesn’t factor into my opinion of any particular candidate. The above quote is what you get when you put too much weight on the opinion or opinions of the oligarchy. You get Bernie conflated with Trump. Don’t take that bait. They are separate and distinct and should never be lumped together according to an irrelevant perspective.

  13. dbk

    I have read Bernie’s GND and MfA platforms, and find them coherent, comprehensive, and filled with really good ideas/ameliorative actions.

    As someone who’s immune to personality cults and believes that even if Bernie wins the nomination/is elected that much/most of what gets accomplished will have to be movement-based, I feel that his platform re: the domestic issues I care about is superior to that of Warren.

    The OP closely mirrors how I see attacks on Bernie – that is, as attacks on social programs and climate action I believe in. I don’t take them personally on his behalf; I take them personally on behalf of the policies he supports.

    An interesting public health test case is arising in the U.S. with regard to the un- and under-insured, who cannot afford to get care if they become ill with Covid19, and with the millions of workers who have no sick leave, who will inevitably work even when ill. Because the U.S. does not have universal health care or guaranteed sick leave, it’s going to face a bigger challenger in containing the virus’ spread than peer countries for these reasons.

  14. nihil obstet

    Please learn to read with intelligence before you try to summarize other people’s comments.

  15. Benjamin
    Oh, I guess I’m not a Nazi to you anymore? That’s nice.

    Anyway, I don’t have a Twitter account either, but I’ve found myself reading Sanders supporting accounts frequently. Saying negative things about Sanders will certainly get you ratioed and swarmed with responses. But the vast, vast majority of those responses are not attacks. Being challenged on your views, or people saying things you don’t like, is not the same as being attacked. Sanders supporters on the internet are passionate; but that isn’t the same thing as being hostile. (I exclude myself from all of the above: I’m well aware that I’m an asshole.)

    Also, even if that weren’t the case, if a bunch of his supporters being assholes is the deal-breaker for someone, they’re essentially saying “I would like to fix the country, but his fans are mean so I won’t help you”. That’s far more psychotic than anything any rabid Sanders supporter has ever said.

    @Ten Bears

    Yeah, she did lie about her ethnicity. Sorry, but she did. And she’s lied about quite a bit more than that as well.

    I was never enthusiastic about Warren to begin with (she’s a Reagan Republican, not a progressive), but this entire election cycle has been her aping positions from Sanders, being worse on them, and then backpedaling away from them anyway. She has a massive credibility gap. She’s also shown herself to have the political instincts of a gnat.

    She’s genuinely good on a very narrow range of issues, and would make a good Treasury Secretary in a progressive administration. But I wouldn’t at all expect her to run a particularly progressive administration herself if she were president. And we’re well past the point where anything less than a thoroughly progressive administration is going to do us any good.

    I’m hoping she gets clobbered tomorrow so she’ll just drop out and we’ll be done with her (and I kind of expect she won’t endorse Sanders out of sheer pettiness, but I’m happy to be proven wrong).

  16. Joan

    @450, point to where I pigeonholed Bernie as only having appeal to Millennials? I used that word, yes, but did I make that argument?

    Anyway, I’m not going to pivot to the straw man, but I’m glad you and your family are planning to vote. I’ve already voted.

  17. bruce wilder

    Bernie may be for all the people all the time, but all the people are not for Bernie. Or haven’t you noticed? I am, personally, for Bernie, but I am not without reservations — what I find I am without is alternatives.

    I fear he is a slim reed for a movement that has not quite emerged and I have my jaundiced eye on the reaction that may yet bury that movement’s desperately needed reforming impulses.

    I am cynical enough to question the depth and sophistication of those reforming impulses without Sanders. Arguing over whether a UBI or a Job Guarantee is a better income (re)distribution policy is like debating whether a carbon tax or cap-n-trade is better environmental policy — the idealist soi disant wonks who push this stuff want to be impotent idiots. I am a great admirer of Wynne Godley and Hyman Minsky, but the MMT of Randy Wray does not seem to me to be worth a bucket of warm spit.

    Sanders, a sophisticated politician working off the faint memory of the New Deal and WWII mobilization, has chosen a better initial policy agenda: solve acute problems with direct action: a $15 minimum wage (as a first step to a living wage), M4All, cancelling student debt, tuition-free public colleges, and so on, working up to a Green New Deal to deal with the impending apocalypse. This is starting with problems that a political movement can learn politics while solving. The American political system desperately needs to lose its learned helplessness and the political power vacuum that learned helplessness has created not just in government but thruout the economy, a political power vacuum the billionaire oligarchs all too easily can use to dominate both electoral politics and the institutions of politics. (The story of Bloomberg’s “philanthropy” buying up municipal politicos is frightening despite its earnestness.)

    I know I have used this abstract label before, but Obama’s failure to reverse the Reagan-to-Bush-II policy progression set off the legitimacy crisis that elected Trump. The legitimacy of the elites who run the country’s institutions is being called into question as their competence and integrity is called into question.

    Trump’s competence and integrity — waiting for the laughter to die down — approaches the self-parody of professional wrestling. But, getting hyperbolically hysterical about Trump, as 450.0rg does, seems like a way to deny and distract from how broad and deep this legitimacy crisis is. It does not begin or end with Trump.

    Boeing, the flagship of American aerospace, a hugely important exporter, is circling the drain, certain now to collapse financially. The CDC, which I think had a huge reputation, just completely bollixed COVID-19 testing. (They trotted out Anthony Fauci, 79!!! years old.) There are numerous other examples available and I will skip the rant, but I do not think it is possible to exaggerate the breadth and depth of the legitimacy crisis underway.

    And, it is truly remarkable to me, and deserves our attention, that so many people simply do not get it. I get why Sanders supporters care so much. I care. What truly alarms me are Nihil Obstet’s “reasonably intelligent, educated people (heavy on lawyers and engineers) who follow politics more than most and are sometimes on the side of the angels and virtually never on the side of the demons, being totally oblivious to the last 20 years or so of American life.” These people — more than even the billionaire oligarchs and their immediate hangers-on — who constitute the effective opposition to Sanders. And, their opposition to Sanders is based on . . . obliviousness to the problems Sanders proposes to try to solve.

    I would not blame Sanders supporters, who do care, for getting exasperated with this oblivious “opposition”, people who see the senile, casually corrupt Biden as an “anti-Trump”. (eye-roll)

    The one hypothesis that I can come up with that makes sense is that many people intuitively sense that practically anything done to address fundamental problems will induce some large degree of structural collapse. “Revolutions” involve a lot of demolition and the older you are and the more vested you are in the system as it is the more you instinctively fear that reform-induced collapse. Any change is likely to be change for the worse in the short-term for people who are fully vested in the system, however corrupt and decrepit that system may have become. This is where Bush II and Obama’s extend-and-pretend, combined with the financial system’s reckless neoliberal strategy of broad-based disinvestment (to generate upward flows of cash and globalized paper wealth), has gotten us: a tower of papier mâché jenga ready to crash down on chicken little’s head, and everyone a chicken little.

    But, I think there are two hard rows for Sanders supporters to hoe: one row are the non-voters who have dropped out of politics they can neither trust nor fathom; the other more exasperating row are the insistently oblivious who talk a virtuous game but play for the other side.

  18. Jerry Brown

    “Being challenged on your views, or people saying things you don’t like, is not the same as being attacked. Sanders supporters on the internet are passionate; but that isn’t the same thing as being hostile. (I exclude myself from all of the above: I’m well aware that I’m an asshole.)”

    LOL! Thanks you made my day. I probably fall into that category also. Reminds me of the best bumper sticker I ever saw- big letters across the top- JESUS LOVES YOU! little letters across the bottom- everyone else thinks you’re an asshole.

    But honestly- I don’t think you are. Thanks

  19. someofparts

    “An interesting public health test case is arising in the U.S. with regard to the un- and under-insured, who cannot afford to get care if they become ill with Covid19, and with the millions of workers who have no sick leave, who will inevitably work even when ill. Because the U.S. does not have universal health care or guaranteed sick leave, it’s going to face a bigger challenger in containing the virus’ spread than peer countries for these reasons.”

    Yeah. This is what I’m watching.

    I also hear that the economic dislocations soon to befall us will be a bigger, more disruptive calamity than the virus itself.

    The 20th century is finally over. Grab some popcorn. We are about to see the next century get born.

  20. someofparts

    forgot to include this
    reports from people whose family members have been turned into pod people by MSNBC

  21. dbk

    @Bruce Wilder: “Boeing, the flagship of American aerospace, a hugely important exporter, is circling the drain, certain now to collapse financially.”

    Agreed. I also consider it possible to probable that the American arm of Bayer-BASF, which purchased Monsanto in 2018, may go down over dicamba – the first case has been adjudicated, the verdict is in, and the award was enormous ($265 million to a single orchard owner in Missouri). There are hundreds more cases awaiting trial, most to be grouped in massive class action suits.

    I also agree with your observations re: why older voters may support Biden. As an older voter who has been waiting for the boat to be rocked since the 1970s, I tell my friends that I want to live long enough to see AOC become President. They are shocked, shocked.

  22. someofparts

    I just read that link I posted and it is not what I thought I was linking to. Really sorry if anyone wasted time on it,

  23. bruce wilder

    perhaps this is the one you were hoping for:

  24. StewartM

    Sander’s supporters simply recognize a rare trait–integrity and constancy–in a politician. Like Corbyn, Sanders has pushed for policies when they weren’t popular and taken stands on issues that cut against the conventional wisdom of the day. He has been right about things when it was not popular to be right or to say that everyone else was wrong.

    That being said—what I feared was going to happen looks to be happening. Uncle Joe Biden (not the ‘stalking horse’ for someone else some people around here made him out to be) sucked all the air from the room for any new face in the Dem party to come forth. Klouchar and Buttigieg are now out; Harris and Booker never had a chance, even with African-American voters, etc, all because Obama’s #2 guy was there. So it will soon be Biden vs Sanders with all the Dem establishment pressing its thumb mightily on the scales to make sure it’s Uncle Joe. Bernie may get the plurality of the delegates still, but Biden will be the “unity candidate” and CNN and MSNBC talking heads will tell us this is a wonderful thing.

    Then Trump will wipe Uncle Joe off the floor in their matchup–Trump’s supporters believe in him, whereas nobody but nobody thinks Biden is worth a damn–and we’ll have at least four more years of Trump. Or twelve or sixteen, if Trump decides that “due to popular acclaim” he should stay in office. As for the CNN/MSNBC talking heads, they’ll blame the damn hippies for not lining up dutifully behind Uncle Joe.

  25. Jerry Brown

    Bruce Wilder, I am impressed with your ideas as far as the ‘age gap’ that Sanders seems to experience as to who supports him. Thanks.

    If I were to quote you on some other forum, first would you mind that? Second would you prefer not to be named? Would you prefer I put it in my own words while giving you credit or rather not have your name mentioned at all? I can’t ‘unlearn’ what you have written and occasionally speak up but will defer to your preferences in the meantime. And I’m not talking about anything like a magazine or newspaper here- just a small blog I follow.

  26. KT Chong

    I’d give you a fucking good reason why we should have single-payer universal healthcare:

    I am fairly young and in good health, so I bought an insurance plan that has high co-pays and a high deductible. So three weeks ago I came down with flu-like syndromes. I suspected that I might have gotten COVID-19, i.e., the Chinese coronavirus. I came in contact with a lot of Chinese who travel in and out of the country, so I might have gotten the infection from one of them. COVID-19 is fatal for older people and people who have preexisting health issues. I am in good health. I recovered after a week. So COVID-19 was not a problem for me. However, it is a certainly problem for OTHER people around me, for the community, and for the country.

    The thing about COVID-19 is that, even after someone got sicked and recovered, he could still be a carrier. I had thought about going to a clinic and doctor to get diagnosed. However, I changed my mind when I found out it would cost me over over $3,000 out-of-pocket to get screened for COVID-19. As I said, I am healthy. I have recovered from whatever I got. So the only reason I would go to spend over $3,000 of my own money to get screen for coronavirus is to do it for the sake of OTHER people. I don’t have any close friends or relatives who are old or sick , so I would be spending $3,000 of my own money for the sake of STRANGERS.

    So… why should I? $3,000 is quite a bit of money.

    If we have universal healthcare, I would have gotten screened for COVID-19 for free or with minimal expenses. Truth be told: I certainly ain’t gonna pay over $3,000 out of my own pocket for other people and strangers.

    And think about this: given that, in America, everyone is out for themselves and do not really give a damn about anyone else. That is the pathos of America. Most old people vote Republican or for establishment anyway. So, if anyone got sick from COVID-19 and die… well, whatever. It is them who don’t want universal healthcare anyway.

    Anyway, have to go out and possibly be a spreader.

  27. bruce wilder

    thanks Jerry. high praise.

    i don’t remember ever having had a genuinely original idea that wasn’t bizarrely wrong, so no false pride needs you to credit me on this, which i am synthesizing or paraphrasing from others

  28. Jerry Brown

    Don’t sell yourself short. Been reading and learning from your comments for years in various places- usually with admiration. We disagree here and there- but I never had a doubt about your intelligence or integrity and it always concerns me if and when we do disagree. Thanks Bruce.

  29. Hugh

    Chris Matthews just retired tonight and is gone from MSNBC. Even among all the biased, shiv sticking reporting on Sanders at MSNBC, Matthews was a hysterical stand-out. I think his comparisons of Sanders to both Castro (and his fear that he Matthews would be shot if Sanders won) and the Nazi invasion of Europe are what did him in.

    I think a movement needs both an overall vision of the society we want and a program to get there. After that, it might be nice to have charismatic leaders, but they aren’t necessary. What’s important is whoever is there is committed to fighting for the program.

  30. Hugh

    BTW the big push is on by the Democratic Establishment (Obama, in particular) to winnow the field and promote Biden as the conservative Democrat alternative to Sanders. Anybody but Sanders! So Buttigieg left a day ago and just endorsed Senile Joe. Klobuchar left the race this afternoon. Bloomberg would probably be next if A) he needed them and B) if they could get an audience with him.

  31. Tom R

    Wanted to check bruce wilder’s assumption that Boeing is going down the tubes. Please view this as an argument about Boeing, not an attack on you personally.

    First, if Boeing is tanking, the US economy will be more affected than by any collapse of a Big Bank or Big Auto or even Big Oil company. Boeing pays well, all the way through its mostly unionized workforce, and creates ten more jobs in the US for every job inside the company, plus probably as many jobs in supply chains in other countries (including Arnprior and Winnipeg, Ian). Having one of the two major aircraft companies in the US spawns great products in dozens of other industries; my favorite examples are in outdoor products like tubular tents and backpacks, metal ice axes, and more flexible skis and snowboards.

    Second, Boeing screwed up, big time, on *one* of its narrow-body models, not all of its planes. And its helicopter, defense, space, and computer divisions have tens of thousands of jobs beyond its airplane division.

    I consulted to Boeing in the 1990s as it tried to learn from Japanese lean quality efforts. Much of this was incorporated at Boeing, and it showed in production of earlier models of the 737. But the merger with Rockwell and Douglas brought in leadership too arrogant to learn the details of the humility, customer focus, and deep employee support at Toyota and other Japanese giants. Profit and schedule returned to priority, instead of safety and quality. And people died in Ethiopia and Indonesia as a result.

    Economists in and out of government know how important Boeing is as an employer, a manufacturer, and an even an innovator. Seattle was originally a high-tech center because of Boeing, not because of Microsoft or Amazon. I don’t think government leaders would let Boeing collapse, even if some think it would be just desserts. And Boeing’s other businesses still succeed, so it would not go down all at once.

  32. Hugh

    Klobuchar and O’Rourke also endorsing Geriatric Joe. Did I mention how much the fix-is-in with all this coming on the eve of Super Tuesday? If Biden does get the nomination, I am sure there are people who will be telling me I have to vote for him because “Do I want Trump?” to which I will answer, “If you Democrats had wanted my vote, you would not have nominated a hack like Biden.”

  33. Hugh

    Dan, Trump could not have said it better.

  34. bruce wilder

    the inanity of nominating Joe Biden


    the insanity of nominating Joe Biden

    autocorrect functions everywhere want to know which is more appropriate

  35. Dan

    Hugh, Trump would say it better. It would be entirely wrong, but it would sound good.

  36. Dan

    Actually, I take that back Hugh. He’d screw that up, you’re right. He only sounds good when he freestyles in front of his own audience.


    Well, tomorrow’s the big day. We’ll see. CNN & MSNBC are doing everything they can to help Biden win Super Tuesday. He’s getting a ton of free coverage from them. He’s spent nothing in the Super Tuesday states. They’re disgusting. They should have their licenses revoked. It really does feel like a conspiracy to reelect Donald Trump. He’s been good for all of them. The networks. The Dem party. He’s been their meal ticket and they don’t want Bernie to ruin the party.

    If they hand the nomination to Biden in a brokered convention, I’m now considering not voting at all, not even down ballot for any Dems. I refuse to be a part of this if it comes to that. The Dem party has made it clear that the name of its party is entirely inappropriate. They are not democratic in the least. The primaries are for show. The Dem establishment chooses the candidate they want to run for POTUS, not the voters. They have no credibility. They’re cheaters and liars and whores. A pox, or COVID-19 if you prefer, upon all their houses.

  38. Dan

    Bernie’s Statement to the World

    This is the salvo. Taking it to the streets.

  39. Z

    Beto climbing aboard the Biden train reeks of Obama calling in chits on him. Classic Obama to pull something like this behind the scenes where he can keep his fingerprints off it. He’s asking people to endorse a candidate who is obviously sliding into senility and who is 100% certain to lose to Trump. Obama’s a black Bill Clinton.

    Beto just ruined his political career in TX. Bank on it. A substantial amount of his support against Cruz came from DSA. Good riddance to him. I was amazed that DSA was so behind him. I know he’s not Cruz, but still. Beto is vacuous, a husk, much like Lyin’ Liz at this point.

    It looks like the DNC is concerned about TX and CA going too heavily towards Sanders. That seems to be their main objective in getting YR Pete and Amy K to exit and try to toss their supporters toward Biden. Frauds, the both of them. Warren and maybe even Bloomberg could conceivably get 15% in either of those two states and divide up the delegates. I’d imagine Lyin’ Liz and Mikey $B don’t get 15% in most of the other states even with the two stooges out of the way.

    Amazing to see the DNC throw so heavily down on a man who is going senile. That’s why Warren is staying in IMO. They may very well make her the candidate if it goes to a brokered convention even though she may not win any states. Pump her up by feeding her free shots at Bloomberg, who is only in it for Israel and is willing to be knocked around a bit to stop Sanders, and then sell her as the non-senile “Unity” candidate and call everyone misogynists who don’t go for it. I’m amazed she is so principle-less to be led into this.

    Biden could very easily fall apart in some embarrassing fashion after Super Tuesday. He’s a mess. This ploy to push him as the candidate could spectacularly fall apart on the DNC, but where else could they turn? Neither Mikey $B or Lyin’ Liz have any juice to tap into. Biden has the mythical shine of the Obama years to hide behind and SC momentum, which I tend to think isn’t as strong as the DNC believes.

    The republicans tell larger lies, the democrats tell them in more layers.


  40. Z

    The DNC establishment are pretending that they don’t realize that Biden is slipping into senility though any human can clearly see it in recent video clips. This is where their deceit has finally led. This and Lyin’ Liz trying to drive a gender wedge into the progressive movement which she obviously has no loyalty to while dishonestly pumping herself as a unity candidate who is bravely hanging on because of pinky promises she made to five year old girls. And Mikey $B openly purchasing super delegates. This is the final line of defense for the One Percent in the democratic party.

    If Sanders gets the nomination, with all the social problems that COVID-19 is shining a light on, he’ll destroy Trump.


  41. Anthony K Wikrent

    Biden says he’s open to a Republican running mate

    Biden stated in December 2019 he thinks we need to preserve the Republican Party to keep a balance in our political system.  

    This is like Abraham Lincoln considering Robert E. Lee as a running mate, because Lee had spoken out against secession before the war started. I can’t help thinking Biden’s supporters would have considered Lee a reasonable “moderate.” I can see them yelling happily: “Grand strategy! Can’t you see?! Lee as Lincoln’s running mate would have avoided the Civil War!”

  42. bruce wilder

    and it would have the assassination so much more effective a political strategy!

  43. Dan

    How are they going to hide Joe Biden? I don’t think he’s going to be able to withstand the next few months, even with virtually full establishment backing. It’s easier to hide a sitting president with cognitive impairment than it is trying to get one elected. There are numerous opportunities everyday for Biden to do or say something extraordinarily stupid, and at this point he literally can’t help himself. These no longer qualify as simple gaffes that everyone just rolls their eyes at. There is obvious evidence of pretty serious cognitive decline.

    This, coupled with the succinct message Sanders began tonight – beginning with kind words for Joe the man then immediately launching into Biden’s record on NAFTA, Iraq, Social Security, big money backers – this is the most direct hit yet and this message will be pounded home from here on out.

    The stark contrast in their respective voting records on issues of vital importance, coupled with Biden’s daily eccentricities, are going to be impossible to hide. And the Sanders campaign has definitively answered all questions about electability.

    I’m posting the video of the rally tonight in St Paul again. Bernie starts talking around the 35-second mark. He starts the messaging directed at Biden at around 8:15.

    This is it going forward. How does a barely coherent Joe Biden defend himself against these obvious truths? Perhaps more importantly, how does a sentient being vote for Joe Biden?

  44. Tom

    I and several of my Paramedic Colleagues will be going to Lansing tomorrow for a conference on Covid-19 response. We can’t afford the disaster that occurred in Washington State where over 200 Medical Staff and First Responders had to be quarantined after a confirmed case.

    Expect the entire Political Apparatus to shatter this year.

  45. Mark Pontin

    Bruce Wilder: “I am, personally, for Bernie, but I am not without reservations — what I find I am without is alternatives. ”

    There you go. To paraphrase someone or other, you go to war with the democratic socialist candidate who’s an effective retail politician that you’ve got, not the one you might wish for.

    What’s worth keeping in view is that the DNC and the establishment is going to war against Sanders (and Trump, theoretically) with … Joe Biden!?!

    Oh, my. That senile, corrupt, utterly unpersuasive hack is the best candidate they can lay hands on to throw all their weight behind so as to save their status quo?

    This is an establishment and a status quo so weak and enervated — though vicious — that historians may look back and argue it makes the Breshnev-era regime of the USSR look sprightly and effective by comparison.

  46. Z

    “Campaign Against Bernie” – A 2020 political satire about a brain dead democratic party presidential candidate who is stood up to wave and smile his way to the nomination and the campaign staff who struggles to keep the farce alive and him out of trouble.


  47. Z


    I can’t blame you.


  48. Z

    Obama – The “No, You Can’t” piece of trash who ran on “Yes, We Can”.


  49. Ché Pasa

    Yep. It looks like the Dem Party funders and (mis)leadership are turning the screws before results of Super Tuesday are official. Expectation management has determined that Bernie will do well today, probably acquiring well over half the 1,300 delegates available. Because the withdrawals happened so late, though, Biden is unlikely to pick up all the delegates the others are sacrificing (not that many).

    The point, as I see it, is not so much the delegate count right now — that’ll come at the convention — as forcing Dem voters to choose. “Which side are you on?” The Raving Socialist? Or the Doddering Uncle? Some choice, eh?

    It seems obvious that the funder/(mis)leadership is no longer interested in beating Trump — if they ever were for this cycle. Trump has been very good for them, after all, from the tax cuts for corporate and wealthy interests, to keeping high profile Dems in the limelight with his constant litany of insults. If Trump stays in office, it wouldn’t be good, but it wouldn’t be that bad for the Dems that matter, would it?

    But if they really want power over the government — which they haven’t shown signs of — neither Old Joe nor Raving Bernie will do. That’s why I’m hearing and reading more and more talk of “someone else” to emerge at the convention. A good deal of the chatter is suggesting Warren as a compromise, but that’s nonsense. She may have plans out the wahzoo, and good for her, but that isn’t what the voters are into. They’re looking for someone who can stomp Trump and the Rs and actually rule in the interests of the people. Not one of the current candidates have shown they can do it. Sorry Bernie. So. Who?

    Or is it the intent to concede the presidency to the Rs once again and pretend to struggle on? Same old same old?

    The thing is, no matter what the intent, events are moving at their own pace and politics as it has been played are less and less relevant. Expect the unexpected.

  50. Z

    Can’t wait for the “Oh, jeez it looks like Joe is losing his faculties and is going to have to pull out” charade that our rulers in the democratic party will eventually pull the trigger on and our ruling class’s media playing along like nobody could have known.

    There’s no way they can run Biden in a presidential campaign. No way. The only one who makes sense is Lyin’ Liz, who will likely not win one state in the whole primary.

    If you deprived Lyin’ Liz and The Donald of their Vitamin “A” in the morning and laid down a nice thick line of Adderall on a table between them, like The Donald is rumored to hoover up routinely, and restrained them on either side of the table and then let them go at the same time and closed your eyes for one second, you’d hear a loud, sharp clack like rams banging their horns in rut and then you’d open your eyes and you’d see two unconscious politicians laying on the floor on their backs with growing lumps on their foreheads.



    I can’t help thinking Biden’s supporters would have considered Lee a reasonable “moderate.” I can see them yelling happily: “Grand strategy! Can’t you see?! Lee as Lincoln’s running mate would have avoided the Civil War!”

    It’s true. One thing amongst many I’ve noticed about the Dem establishment’s, and their mouthpiece cable news networks CNN & MSNBC, 24/7 Trump Show is how they have endeared themselves to heretofore political scumbags when these political scumbags speak negatively of Donald Trump. Scumbags that have been repudiated and ostracized in years past are now legitimate darlings to the Dems in their stalking obsession with all things Trump. There’s a reason for that. It’s called they all belong to the same class — the political class. A dying breed, perhaps, but still onerous & obstructionist to the last breath.

    It’s clear MSNBC is holding a grudge against Bernie supporters for the demise of Matthews and they’re out for blood. They’re not even going to pretend to be fair at this point. It really is Bernie against the entire establishment to include the mainstream media, Wall Street, the oligarchs and the political class to include his own party not to mention meddling foreign interests to include Russia, Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident….yada, yada, yada… know the rest because I surely don’t. ~ Joe Biden

  52. Spring Texan

    Think Ian’s post is exceptionally good – and accurate – about the “emotional logic “of each candidacy.

    It sort of explains why Warren supporters do not understand why we are so angry and think the attacks are inconsequential. As well as the psychology, helps me understand some people I know: “Warren’s claim is that she’s the most competent candidate (the logic that Hillary ran on, actually). She appeals to technocrats and many women who find her journey resonates with them the same way Clinton’s did.”

    Thanks for the excellent and enlightening insights.

  53. Sid Finster

    @Anthony K Wikrent: Lincoln did have Andrew Johnson, a War Democrat, as a running mate in 1864.

  54. highrpm


    if your theory has merit, the “chosen” candidate, waiting hidden in the wings, has got to be a woman. hillary’s seems a better choice than lightning bolt liz whose shown her ability to send out bolts of wrath to the others at the debates. time to hand over the reigns of power & decision making to the next generation. dnc’ers. bern’s got the best organization, it appears. i like his mix of co-chairs. ro khanna’s articulate and even keeled emotionally. still, i think the right woman would crush the trumpster. and the dem’s haven’t shown their find, yet….

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