The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Elizabeth Warren’s “What Am I Moment”

Warren Elizabeth

So, Warren has been the second most progressive candidate in the primaries on domestic issues. But now she’s dropping out, and she has a decision to make: Should she endorse Bernie, endorse Biden, or stay neutral?

Back in 2016, Warren declined to endorse anyone during the primary, even though she and Sanders were closer politically than she and Clinton. I assumed then that she believed Clinton was likely to be President and wanted to not estrange her. Clinton is famously vindictive.

That time, her endorsement only really mattered in Massachusetts. This time, she’s a former front-runner with a stack of delegates. She’s been hitting Sanders for a few months, trying to find a road to victory, but now her campaign is over.

I said in 2016 that Warren had shown she wasn’t an ally, that she put herself and her own viability before the movement.

I hope I was wrong, or that I was right and that she feels that she has a future on the left to protect. This, after all, is Sanders last Presidential run, he’ll be too old next time. She can be the heir apparent if she moves hard behind him.

Alternatively, she can try and get the VP slot with Biden. He’s clearly got dementia, so she could wind up as the power behind the throne or even as President, if he declines fast enough.

Finally, she could decide to stay in the Senate, and she might be thinking that Biden is likely the next President and wants to be able to work with him.

This is a close race, however, and her endorsement could make the difference between who wins. Bernie will do far more of what she says she believes in, so much so that there is no comparison.

Does that matter to her? Do her principles come first? Does she care about the policies she says she believes in and the good of Americans (because, yes, Bernie will help far more Americans)? Is she an ally, a member of the progressive movement, or just a politician, maneuvering for advantage and ambition?

We’ll see.

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Bernie’s Road Forward


Who I Bleed With and Why Bernie Is Trusted


  1. anon

    I would gain a lot of respect for Warren if she endorses Bernie. To put it in the best possible terms, Warren is a pragmatist. She may really be a liberal after spending most of her life as a Republican, but she won’t risk rocking the boat to fight for progressive causes and candidates.

    It’s obvious to me that Warren is not a lifelong progressive in the same way as Bernie and AOC are, where Bernie was fighting causes that were extremely unpopular and not yet mainstream, like LGBT rights, since the very start of his career. I predict that Bernie will be looked upon very favorably in the history books as a progressive leader of the early 21st century who fought for human rights issues that are considered unpopular right now in the USA, such as universal child care, health care, and free college. It’s a shame that Bernie was so much ahead of his time. He would absolutely become president at some point if he were 30 years younger.

    Back to Warren, I have no idea what path she will choose. She knows that Bernie is better for the country, she knows that endorsing Biden over Bernie will ruin her reputation among the young progressive wing of the party, but she also knows that endorsing Biden in a race rigged for him could be the best thing for her political career if Biden can manage to win the presidency. She has a tough decision to make, but it really is about choosing her principles and what is right for the country versus potentially increasing her political power within the Democratic Party.

  2. elkern

    I’m likely to be branded as sexist for waying this, but I think Warren belongs in the Cabinet, preferably as SecTreas. I view her as a damn good administrator, but not a very good politician (came in 3rd in her “home” state!). I think she’s more smart & competent than “likeable” (I like her just fine, but I’m part of a very small minority of USAmericans who enjoy “lectures”).

    Trump will leave a huge mess for the next president to clean up (note: if Trump gets re-elected, all bets are off; “cleanup” will be done by rodents & corvids). The next president will need to focus on balancing top-level priorities so they will need a dozen Elizabeth Warrens to restock the bureaucracy with smart decent people who actually care about the services that Government provides.


    If Bernie wins, he won’t so it’s really not an if, he should put her in charge of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) considering her proudly heralded roots.

    I say no way she endorses Bernie and those responsible for cheating Biden to the nomination would never allow her as a VP pick. My guess is she’ll endorse Biden and support the scam.


    I’ll say this, if she endorses Bernie her endorsement will be meaningless and have no effect on future results. Endorsements only seem to matter and have an effect when they’re for Biden the day before Super Tuesday and in all future state primaries until the convention. Funny that.

  5. different clue

    First, there is nothing wrong with a politician being a politician. You can’t be successful in politics without being a functioning politician. The “consequential” politicians are the ones who
    used their politicianal abilities to advance a particular vision or agenda. They are remembered decades after the fact.

    There is also nothing inherently wrong with being not-a-progressive, so long as one does not pretend that one is or ever was a progressive.

    I believe that technically Warren did not end her campaign, she merely “suspended” it. That way, she gets to “keep” her delegates voting for her in the first ballot, at least.

    I predict she will NOT support Sanders in any way whatsoever. I can not predict whom she WILL support. But she will NOT support Sanders.

    She will try selling her delegates to the highest bidder. Her poor political skills may lead her to wait too long before selling them. She may discover that the price for her delegates drops to zero. I imagine she will leave the world of elective politics and return to the world of Academe.


    And, if you think about it, her hesitation to support Bernie immediately is already a tacit endorsement of Biden. Bernie is all alone. Isolated. He must be punished for refusing to be a corporate whore and aspiring to be a man of and for the people. How dare he. The nerve.

  7. Mark Pontin

    Warren is going to get primaried in Massachusetts and is probably done politically.

    She’s not a good retail politician and she has terrible strategic judgment. Consider for instance:

    [1] Her continual failures in her auditions to be somebody’s VP or cabinet member to figure out when and with whom she could successfully make a deal (e.g. her endorsement of Clinton in 2016 to get the VP nod, which Clinton then gave to T. Kaine; her failure to choose a side to throw her delegates to on Monday of this week, when it still mattered before Super-Tuesday’s result);

    [2] Her stupidity in trying to get a leg up on Sanders in the earlier debate by bringing up something he said to her in a private conversation eighteen months before and (probably) misrepresenting it, creating a “he said, she said” scenario where neither could be proved right but she has the personal history of lying for professional advantage with the “Pocohantas” schtick while even Sanders’s enemies concede his honesty.

    Apropos of which, there’s this —


    Cornell: ‘I knew Elizabeth Warren when I was a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. She was a right-wing Reaganite. And the University of Pennsylvania had the most progressive law school curriculum in the country. And this is Elizabeth Warren. And I taught a first year class called income security. Elizabeth Warren said “there is no more ridiculous idea than national healthcare.” That’s the Elizabeth Warren I knew.

    ‘She was in her 30s at this time. She was the henchwoman of the right-wing takeover to destroy the left-wing curriculum. I taught Worker’s Rights, I taught the National Labor Rights Act, which doesn’t exist anymore, for the most part, it’s not taught in any law school in the United States, I taught Income Security, and I taught Jurisprudence. Elizabeth was against all those things. I don’t really know Elizabeth Warren personally, I just know her as a right-wing Republican.

    ‘And somehow or another, God came out of the heavens and turned her into a Democrat, probably at the very moment that Derrick Bell stepped down from Harvard because he would not work anymore until they hired an African-American woman. Now she couldn’t pretend she was Black, so she pretended she was African. She was Native American. That’s not what we call people who are Native Americans, because they’re First Nations people. Apaches and Cherokees were nations. There’s no such thing as a Native American. Elizabeth checked that box just as Derrick Bell was stepping down. She goes to Massachusetts and she becomes a Democrat.

    ‘There is no more [of a] relentless, ruthless, nihilist that I have ever met in my entire life. Not Elizabeth Warren. She’s right up there with Donald Trump. So I can’t really support her. She did succeed in destroying that progressive curriculum. And that progressive curriculum is, you know, it’s one of those life things that you hold onto, right?

    ‘So I don’t trust Elizabeth Warren as far as I can throw her. She has no policy, she doesn’t understand imperialism, and she has said she’s a capitalist. What she really is is a technocrat who clawed her way to Harvard. I mean, that’s where you want to end up, right? If you’re a law professor, you want to be at Harvard. Ok, she did that. She succeeded. But as President of the United States I wouldn’t even dream of supporting her. Because Bernie Sanders, whatever you think of him, like me, was chaining himself to schools to [de]segregate them. Was protesting against the Vietnam war. There are people who have held onto values for a lifetime, and those, Slavoj, are the people I trust.’

  8. anon

    Mark Pontin: I saw that post about Drucilla Cornell some time ago and it did not surprise me in the least. You have to wonder about the motivations of someone who suddenly transforms from a Republican in her late 40s to a progressive leftist. Those sort of aha moments usually happen in one’s 20s or 30s at the latest. To this day, Warren may not really know what she stands for or maybe she does not care as long as it is politically expedient. Her pivoting really hurt her campaign and drove away her progressive supporters. No longer supporting Medicare for All and accepting super PAC money are just two major examples. I would love to hear more from Cornell and some of Warren’s colleagues about the things she said and did back when she was a staunch Reaganite.

  9. Dan

    Warren will endorse when it becomes obvious who the winner is. That’s who she is.

  10. Zachary Smith

    *** And, if you think about it, her hesitation to support Bernie immediately is already a tacit endorsement of Biden. ***

    If the delay stretches out, that will become a near certainty. IMO it’ll validate the “maneuvering for advantage and ambition” option. In ordinary circumstance there is nothing wrong with doing these kinds of negotiations, but when one of the choices is a dog-breath like Biden, the level of “ambition” becomes unhealthy for the nation.

    A relative of mine has a relation who was (and remains) a rabid Hillary disciple. The woman believes everything she reads in the Washington Post to be some kind of holy writ. I’m stunned by the the way online feminists believe wearing a skirt is equivalent to having a halo. Also by their ravening hatred of Sanders.

    The way I see it, if Biden wins, we’ll have virtually nothing to show for it.

    *** … corrupt, right-wing warmongering dementia patient …***

    They left out low-level groper, but overall it’s a pretty good description.

    And Trump could defeat Biden. Given the level of dislike Trump has generated it’s not a likely outcome, but it could happen.

    Either way we lose.

  11. Mallam

    Perhaps she endorses Bernie, but I doubt it. He’s not going to win and it’s not close at all, Ian. Look at the calendar. The map is worse for him than Super Tuesday, he’s consistently hitting 25-30% in every state (unless it’s in the south, and then he does worse). He’s abandoning Mississippi, and it’s possible he doesn’t reach threshold thereby getting 0 delegates. He’s going to lose Michigan. He’ll lose Pennsylvania. He’ll get crushed in Florida. He might win Washington and Michigan.

    I had three red flags for him since IA, and so far all of them are raised:

    1. Underperformance in California and Texas. Check. He lost Texas and he’s not built enough of a lead in CA to shut out Biden (which was probably the best insurance policy).

    2. Keep Biden’s support in the North and Midwest relatively low and replicate NH. Check. Biden won MN and MA.

    3. Biden romps in the South. Check. He did it in SC and it’s going to happen everywhere else. LA, MS, GA? Where does Bernie improve?

    Warren will do what’s best for “the movement”, which is to influence those in power to enact her program. She negotiated veto power over a lot of Clinton appointments in the financial realm, a gamble she clearly lost, but a gamble you’d be an idiot to pass up. Clinton likes and respects Warren and would have heeded a lot of her advice. Unfortunately, I don’t know what the best path forward for her with Biden is because Warren and Biden don’t get along or like each other, and Biden is notorious for breaking promises when it comes to personnel recommendations (none of his aides or people are sprinkled throughout the government like Ted Kennedy’s were, because Biden sucks).

    Rock and a hard place on this one and it’s lose lose no matter what she does. Let’s see I guess.

  12. Dan

    No debate this week is a killer. The more Joe speaks, the better for Bernie.

  13. Andre

    I voted for Warren for the Senate, since I firmly believe and still do that she is NOT progressive, but she is intelligent, especially on financial themes, and the US Senate is in dire need of correct guidance in that area. I do not think she ever should have run for president, especially with the lack of success for those from Massachusetts who think they should be president (Dukakis and Kerry). I think she’s where she is at present because of the way she handled the whole race. I mean she stated basically, that what good is running for President, if you don’t put out a lot of proposals. So does she believe in the proposals she put out? That’s a bit different from Sanders and the proposals he put out and how they are based on his beliefs.

    I keep thinking: how could anybody be progressive and a professor at HARVARD at the same time? This is the school that just fired a lecturer because he gave a positive lecture on taxing the rich.

    If she endorses Sanders I might consider voting for her again, but then again maybe not! She’s probably going to endorse Biden, and I will be proven right in my assessment of her politics(?).

    dukakis and Kerry

  14. Mark Pontin

    “She’s probably going to endorse Biden.”

    And she will get nothing for it.

  15. Hugh

    Warren is not a progressive. If she had wanted to endorse Sanders, she could have when she withdrew. That would have made a statement. She has about 24 hours for her endorsement to mean anything to either Sanders or Biden. Clock’s ticking.

  16. Z

    For whatever reason what Warren has done is everything that Hillary Clinton would have wanted her to do: lay off Biden and attack Bernie.



    I agree Warren is not a progressive. She’s a moderate at best whereas Biden is a Republican in Dem clothing as many in the Dem establishment are.

    I think another excellent running mate for Joe is another Joe — Joe Scarborough. Afterall, Biden said he wanted a Republican running mate and Scarborough’s a Republican and Scarborough has a hard-on for Biden.

  18. Hugh

    BTW Warren is being interviewed by Rachel Maddow on MSNBC. May not mean anything but she was a lot warmer toward Biden in her remarks than Sanders. Sounded like she was still pretty angry about attacks on her and her supporters from Sanders supporters. No mention though of her own gratuitous attacks on Sanders which predated those she was angry about.

  19. Z

    Warren playing her contrived role of being wronged by Bernie so that she can support the guy who pushed the bankruptcy bill that she made her political career opposing.

    Whatever Hillary wants her to do, she does.

    Better off without her. If he would have made her his VP and he got into the Oval Office he’d have to keep a constant eye on her.

    If Bernie somehow does win, he’ll certainly owe nobody anything, except the working class.

    If I was Bernie and I lost, I’d just retire and walk away from the whole thing before putting any energy supporting Biden, or whomever else they run in his place.


  20. Z

    Still hoping for one more twist to our benefit in this political drama, whose story line has become scarcely believable: the demozombies are about to nominate a man sliding into dementia to take on who they consider to be the most dangerous president we’ve ever had.

    Sure wish Sloppy Joe had to debate Bernie before Michigan, but he’s still capable of doing something to sink himself without it.

    Fox News and Trump are constantly pointing out Biden’s dementia and I’d imagine MSDNC is blissfully ignoring it.


  21. Z

    Note that when Liz dropped out she said that she is still in the fight. What does that mean? Waiting for the dems to tap Biden on the shoulder and say it’s time? You know the media, who supposedly ghosted her though it actually gave her fawning coverage and even worked with her to try to sink Bernie, would love that story line: Liz the billionaire slayer.

    I still can’t see them running with Biden. He’s too embarrassing.


  22. Dan

    Imagine Tulsi Gabbard on the debate stage. She’d have no qualms going right after Biden’s dementia as he is unfit to be commander in chief. She’d tell us calmly and confidently what the job entails as it relates to the military. And then she’d turn to Joe, look him in the eye, and say “You clearly aren’t mentally fit to be commander in chief and I think you owe it to the American people to drop out of the race now. This is a matter of national security.”

    At this point who knows what Joe would do. If he somehow managed to make it through the night, the liberal media message going forward would be something along the lines of “Hey, Ronald Reagan had some mental deficiencies too, but he was a decent guy and everything worked out alright.”


  23. Alan Coovert

    None of this chit chat about Warren matters. The fix is in. Biden will “win” the nomination and run against Trump and Biden will lose. But even if Bernie were to win the nomination and go on and become POTUS, I will still wake up on Nov 4, 2020 in the most hated, evil and dangerous country in the Global Capitalist Empire. We are a nation of 300 million used car salesmen who don’t care that the USA has laid siege to many nations around the world with sanctions and if sanctions don’t work then we bomb or invade them into submission. People will continue to die and we the people(including me) are all complicit in this horror show.

  24. Ten Bears

    I am reminded of rat-dogs that bark like a big dog after the big dogs go by.


    Alan’s right. It amazes me, no it doesn’t really, how many continue to engage in American Exceptionalism. America’s very own state department would have rejected the Super Tuesday results and declared the vote on Super Tuesday a fraud. But this is America and that can’t and doesn’t happen in America, right? No, America is the exception to the corruption rule. Corrupted elections only happen in other countries, not and never in America. This analysis is commentary on Kabuki Theater and at this point, Bernie’s flailing is a joke. It’s ironic the CIA stigmatizes Bernie with the Castro label when in fact Bernie isn’t, and never was, fit to even hold Castro’s jock. Castro beat the sh*t out of the CIA and don’t think they have forgotten. Like the Jews, the CIA when it comes to Castro and Che and Cuba has a policy of Never Forget and Never Again. You don’t have a “movement” if you don’t have any clue what you’re up against and how to fight it, and yes, it’s a fight versus a resistance. A fight where we’re getting the sh*t beat out of us.

    In China in Wuhan, there is video of Chinese state goons/thugs welding the doors shut of those ill with COVID-19 to keep them forcefully quarantined. I guess they were meant to stay in there until they died. We need to do the same when the wealthy pricks climb down into their McMansion spider holes to hide from Armageddon. Weld their doors shut so they can never surface again.

    Maybe one day you all will realize, the only possible way out of this prison is to kill all the rich before they kill all of you. I suggest you start with the political class first, you know, Northern Virginia that went large for Biden, the political consultants especially and then on to Wall Street and Martha’s Vineyard and Silicon Valley.

  26. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    “Maybe one day you all will realize, the only possible way out of this prison is to kill all the rich before they kill all of you. “

    Hmm…the various police agencies can read this blog, and they have ways of finding out who really is, and where he lives.

    So, I can only think of two reasons 450 would post that.

    (1) 450 lacks a strong sense of self-preservation.

    (2) “The first guy to suggest violence is always the undercover cop.” — bitterly learned wisdom of the radical dissenters of the Vietnam War period.


    I can see it now, in two to three weeks, maybe a little longer, Bernie will capitulate and tell his supporters, once again, “we gave it our best but our best wasn’t good enough yet again. Not this time but next time we will be successful because this is a movement.” Yeah, no, I don’t think so. There will be no next time. It was now or never. The time for a peaceful transition of power is over. There is only one option left. Will it be chosen? I highly doubt it.

    Joe & Mika were live today again from their palace studio in Florida ecstatic that they’re dodging $600k in taxes as the rest of you peon nobodies drop like flies and wait in line for eight hours to cast a vote that will never be counted. I’ll know you all are serious when Mika & Joe are on the run and flee the country like Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and his family did in 1979 amidst the Iranian Revolution. Anything short of this at this point is a bad joke and can’t be taken seriously.

    Castro never would have delivered the Cuban people into the hands of the sadistic filth that exploited the Cuban people for so long as Bernie will do in a few short, or long, weeks. As I said, Bernie isn’t fit to hold Castro’s jock so it’s a joke and an insult to Castro and Che and the Cuban Revolution to mention them in the same breath or conflate them in any way. As Lloyd Bentsen said long ago as though it was just yesterday, “Senator, I served with Fidel Castro, I knew Fidel Castro. Fidel Castro was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no Fidel Castro.”

  28. Ché Pasa

    Why did Miss Elizabeth crash and burn? Well, anecdotally, she was too much of a school marm and not nearly enough of a presidential leader able to wrest the narrative from the nay-sayers, critics and political opponents and sustain her own narrative. Her constant urge was to educate the seething masses, not lead them to victory.

    When Ms Ché told me she was not going to support Miss Elizabeth and was all in for Bernie — along with quite a few of her women friends, mostly women of color btw, those who would be called “Identitarians” by the rightist media — then it was clear to me that Miss Elizabeth was going nowhere in this election cycle, and she may even lose her senate seat when her term is up.

    Bernie’s got his problems too; so does Old Joe. The billionaire classes would go with Old Joe if they had to, but why bother when they could just stay with the deeply cognitively impaired Trump and make out just as well — if not marginally better?

    The current wild card is The Outbreak and how that evolves over the rest of the year — and what effects it will have on… everything and everyone. The election will not be about who is more demented, Trump or Biden.

    Bernie could pull it out but I’m not sure Miss Elizabeth’s endorsement would help him much if she were to give it. Bernie could pull it out after recognizing where and why his campaign has stalled. It’s not all about the DNC, in other words. Their machinations are simply politics the way it’s played. He’s got to get ahead of it, proactively, not reactively.


    (3) It’s satire.

    Get serious, peckerhead, the “police” have their hands full what with a pandemic looming and they can’t even seem to handle the everyday grind effectively. Gabriel Fernandez is a good example. Everyone failed him, including and especially the police. The Palmdale Sheriff’s Department was too busy throwing people out of their foreclosed homes to be worried about an eight-year-old kid with bruises and cigarette burns and cuts and black eyes.

    The Trials of Gabriel Fernandez

    Juxtapose Gabriel’s tragic torture and murder, his death, with that of Kobe Bryant. That’s America. John Edwards was correct in his assertion there are Two Americas. In fact, there may even be more than two but most certainly America is not united as one despite the propagandistic rhetoric to the contrary.


    Brought to you by the same peeps who rigged Super Tuesday and will rig the remaining Dem primaries. The path forward is a gauntlet.

    They are not Trump supporters doing it. Guaranteed it’s corporate shock troops paid for by Biden’s super pac.

    Biden doesn’t even know. He knows nothing. He’s quite literally Lost. It’s the people propping him up, the people hired by his corporate super pac, who are responsible for all of this. They truly are the nazis. Biden is really Bernie as in Weekend At Bernie’s.


    Ché Pasa, Liz didn’t crash and burn. She never got out of the gate. She never exceeded a speed that would result in a crash and burn. She was never a contender. She was a useful foil though, be it witting or unwitting on her part. If the assumption that Bloomberg’s dismal debate performances had an effect is true, Liz is as much responsible for that as anyone or anything. She handed his ass to him. Had she not, and instead handed Biden’s ass to him, Bloomberg would have performed much better on Super Tuesday, sans the fix, and Bloomberg’s more notable performance would have bled votes directly from Biden. So, Liz not only bled progressive votes from Bernie as the fake progressive she pretended to be, but she also prevented moderate votes from bleeding to Bloomberg from Biden. Thanks Liz. You’re the best. And the takeaway from her dismal performance by CNN & MSNBC with a straight face? Sexism. Unreal.

  32. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    “(3) It’s satire.”

    Isn’t that more or less what the wingnuts always say when they get called out on having said something hateful?

    More and more, the Hard Left and the Hard Right look like twins (at least fraternal twins) to me; the Horseshoe Theory strikes again.

    (Assuming, of course, that 450 isn’t Officer 450–oink, oink.)

  33. highrpm

    agree. & liz is a member of the system that fronts (as in the rocker “frontman” meaning) biden. what!?! a blantantly off/ old/ dead cabbage head creep. for POTUS? members of this system must qualify with varieties of socio-psycho. utterly disgusting.

  34. bruce wilder

    The Democratic Party establishment has had a “what am I moment” and the outcome was to put in the fix for a stupid, right-wing dementia patient.

    So, basically as a group, they do not have any ethical compunction about honest elections, they do not care about having a respectable let alone electable candidate, and they do not care about putting into office someone who can do the job.

    Elizabeth Warren is deciding how to demonstrate that she is loyal member of the club and not listening to the clear indications the club does not want her as a member. Whether she should want to be a member of such a club is probably not even entering her mind.


    Hey peckerhead, I’m not on the political spectrum so you can take that constraining and misleading abstraction you call a political spectrum and shove it up your polyp-ridden, constipated ass. It’s satire because it’s ludicrous on the face of it to believe the dispossessed, even if they had the inclination, have the capacity and means to “kill all the rich.” The point of the satire is deadly serious though, and that point is, there really are no options except to sit and watch and whine and take our medicine and support Bernie as he capitulates yet again to the powers that be.

  36. How much do endorsements really matter?

    Considering exit poll discrepancies with machine votes, “endorsements” sure do make for a handy mechanism to obscure likely vote rigging on Super Tuesday.

    Do endorsements matter in other democracies?

    I don’t recall ever having seen or even heard about a serious study addressing either of these 2 questions.

    FWIW, I’m endorsing Tulsi Gabbard!


    Considering exit poll discrepancies with machine votes, “endorsements” sure do make for a handy mechanism to obscure likely vote rigging on Super Tuesday.

    Exactly, metamars. Mallam told me I was crazy to say they didn’t matter when I pointed to Bloomberg as an example. He was garnering endorsements left and right, buying them really, and look, he’s no longer in the race and never really ever was. I said that to Mallam because that’s what one of the talking head consultants said on CNN or MSNBC, I can’t remember which and really they’re one and the same, a couple of weeks prior. Hey Mallam, I thought political consultants were the so-called experts in these matters, that’s why they get paid the big bucks, and this one in particular indicated endorsements didn’t amount to much when downplaying Bloomberg but then, what do you know, suddenly when it’s endorsements for Joe Biden, the same f*ckers declare endorsements now miraculously matter and meaningfully affect the vote.

  38. someofparts

    Thanks for the heads-up Ivory Bill. Whatever it is, it is tiresome to have to navigate around it constantly. I suppose that is a form of disruption in its own right. Be interesting to know how many of the mystery guests we have had here over the years have been winged monkeys sent by who knows. Police States R Us.

  39. different clue


    It can be tiresome, but it really only takes a minute or two.

    Sometimes lonely people find a blog and offer everyone else an opportunity to feel their pain. ” Only the
    lonely” . . . .

    God made a scroll button.

  40. Chipper

    Let’s call them the Project Veritas-type of posters. I’m sure that Project Veritas isn’t the only organization that sends people out to disrupt conversations on blogs, but it’s the only one that I know by name.

  41. different clue


    If various kinds of very bad, very not-nice people come to disrupt a blog for any of their very bad, very not-nice reasons or on behalf of their very bad, very not-nice groups or movements; all the constructive commenters can do is exert the self-discipline to not reply. All the constructive commenters can do is to scroll past the damage and keep finding and reading eachOTHER’S comments and responding to those.

    If disrupters begin consuming so much actual bandwidth that the volume of it all begins to flood and then sink the blog, one hopes the blogger then has a way to mass-erase the disruption and quietly block all the computer-machine addresses that the various disruptions are coming from.

  42. Benjamin

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    “bitterly learned wisdom of the radical dissenters of the Vietnam War period.”

    I’ve observed that Confluence site that you hang out on for a while. If you ever were a radical, that impulse in you is long, long dead. You’ve become what the retrograde elders of the 60s were.

    As for 450’s point about killing, the fact is that class warfare is not a metaphor. People are literally dying because of the status quo of unfettered capitalism and subversiveness to markets and the profit motive.

    It’s mostly not singular events of great slaughter, but an acceptance of a certain number of avoidable deaths as just ‘the price of business’, as well as a consistent grinding down of humanity, demonstrated by an ongoing increase in premature deaths, most notably by despair.

    To choose just one extremely important example, access to healthcare. This is a binary choice. Either you support universal healthcare, or you’re okay with some number of people dying annually because they can’t afford to go to the doctor. It’s that simple.

    Universal healthCARE, not universal healthINSURANCE. These two things are not the same. If you do not support Medicare for All, you are condemning people to death. The number of dead may be greater or lesser depending on which bullshit compromise in particular you opt for (‘public option’, or ‘Medicare For All Who Want it’, etc), but these all boil down different ways of defining the undeserving.

    Only one candidate unequivocally advocates M4A. Everything else is a compromise. Warren used to claim she supported it, then she backtracked. The type of technocratic, means-tested tweaking at the edges that she epitomizes is not a solution. There is nothing pragmatic about an incremental solution for a catastrophic problem.

    The positions of you and your fellow Confluencers, on everything, in the most generous possible interpretation, boil down to “well we’d like to do X, but that’s just too radical”, and then a series of excuses for why X can’t be done. This stands in start contrast to actual history, which has never been made by incrementalists.

    And that’s only the most charitable interpretation. It looks far more to me that you’re actually actively opposed to these types of New Deal programs. When I see riverdaughter etc shitting on Sanders constantly, endlessly repeating MSNBC talking points (which are almost always completely ludicrous), all I see is an obstacle that would never, ever be on our side no matter what the facts on the ground. Watching her float a Bloomberg/Warren ticket was honestly one of the saddest and most pathetic spectacles I’ve witnessed this entire election cycle.

    You’ve consistently opposed Sanders on the grounds that he’s unelectable, and now where has that gotten you? With a front-runner who is only a year younger, and is visibly losing his mind. The establishment has rallied behind a candidate who is guaranteed to be eaten alive by Trump.

    To circle back to 450’s point, the fact is that that’s where all this ends: in violent revolt. If the system will not allow even the slightest amount of change to ameliorate the worst of the problems, then at some point the system will be broken, bloodily, and something else erected in its place. FDR’s New Deal, as radical as it was, preserved capitalism and prevented a much more radical transformation (it’s up in the air whether the revolution would have been left wing or right, but I think the left had much more structure and staying power. The fascist German American Bund burned out soon after its famous New York City gathering, it didn’t seem to have any real staying power).

    People like you are blocking an possibility of fixing the system, leaving the wholesale destruction of that system the inevitable result.

  43. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    @Benjamin: I never said that I was a radical. I merely know of that rule of thumb regarding who advocates violence first, and I recognize its wisdom.

    You’re correct that I see no particular virtue in beating my head to a bloody pulp against the neutronium wall of my fellow non-elite white Americans’ vacuum-skulled prejudices. Those Darwinian rejects would rather “die of whiteness” than accept any decent national health-care system which allowed non-white Americans, whom they hate more than they love their own lives, to use it right along with white Americans.

    So be it. Let them reap what they have sown. I look upon them in much the same way as a Marvel Comics mutant who has decided that Magneto is right about the normals, after all.

    All we can do is try to stave off retrogression, until enough states become sufficiently non-white that actual social progress becomes politically possible.

    As for violent revolt?

  44. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Oh, and I’m not “OK with” a certain number of people dying preventable deaths per year.

    I merely know that, under the political realities of the USA, I can’t do anything to prevent their deaths.

  45. Benjamin

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Except the obstacle is not whatever caricature of the average American you’ve conjured up in your mind. It’s the low-information dumbasses within the party who are throwing their weight behind a human vegetable. The general election will be a piece of piss; it’s the primary where Sanders might falter.

  46. anon

    It’s the afternoon of Saturday, March 7th and still no word from Elizabeth Warren while Bernie Sanders is working overtime holding rallies all over Michigan with Cornel West. It really says it all, doesn’t it? In typical Elizabeth Warren style, who else thinks she is going to wait until after Tuesday’s voting to endorse the clear winner?

  47. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    I doubt we will ever agree, Benjamin. Is there any further use in discussion?

  48. Benjamin

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Sanders won with Independents, the largest and fastest growing segment of American voters, in nearly all of the states that have voted so far. He’ll pull them in in the general election, in addition to the vast majority of Democrats, who will fall in line behind him if for no other reason than ‘anyone but Trump’ and ‘Vote Blue No Matter Who’ (though I wouldn’t be surprised if some of you Confluence types rationalize some way to excuse not voting for him).

  49. Benjamin

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Oh, and yes. I am serious about a revolution happening. It might happen the day after the election, it might happen ten years from now. But the country is filled with misery, suffering, and premature deaths. If the existing government continues to not fix any of the underlying problems (and especially if they continue to make them worse, which any neoliberal administration, whether Democrat or Republican, will), at some point people will revolt.

    Your sneering condescension won’t change that reality. You’re sounding like a Versailles courtier around about 1788.

  50. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    “Versailles courtier”?

    I wish I were even half as affluent, and otherwise privileged, as you seem to think I am.

  51. Benjamin

    I didn’t say anything about your wealth. I’m saying your complacence makes you sound incredibly out of touch.

  52. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    This country has always been filled with misery, suffering, and premature deaths.

    Despite that, since the original Revolution, it has had exactly one serious attempt at a second revolution, and that was a right-wing revolution. I speak of the Civil War, and its short-lived Confederacy.

    Why should I expect misery, suffering, and premature deaths to provoke a serious left-wing revolution in the USA, when 200-plus years, also packed with misery, suffering, and premature deaths, have failed to do that?

  53. Benjamin

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Like I said, you’re out of touch. You really seem to have no conception how much worse things have gotten over the last 40 or so years, and particularly the last 12.

    You’re also extremely bad at history. FDR preempted a revolution, as I’ve already said. Now people like you won’t even allow that much of a compromise.

  54. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    @Benjamin: What did you mean in an earlier comment by “a piece of piss”?

    I know all four of those words individually, but what do they mean as an idiom?

  55. Benjamin

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    It means it will be easy.

  56. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Thanks, Benjamin.

    Although unless the piss were frozen, I don’t see how it could be cut in pieces.

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