The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Trump Covid Thread

Use this post for comments about the Trump situation.

I’m not a doctor, but I’m seeing a lot of doctors speculate that Trump is essential high on medicinal steroids “Feel better than I did 20 years ago” and shouldn’t have left the hospital. No idea if it’s true, but  having been on a lot of medicinal steroids in my 20s for colitis, let me tell you, that stuff has real mental effects, right up to psychotic episodes.

Anyway, I have no idea how Trump’s doing, it’s not clear the doctors are being transparent, so it’s wait and see.


“The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas” Is An Inapplicable Parable For Our Time


Nine Lies About Work by Buckingham and Goodall


  1. Buzzard

    We don’t know, and we won’t know how he really is doing. Unless something dramatic and unconcealable happens.

    This administration is bad at a lot of things, but they’re really, really good at gaslighting. The chirpy public reports and the sotto-voce dire reports are probably meant to mis-direct both his supporters and his enemies.

    We’re just going to have to apply some domestic kremlinology. How often does he communicate? Does it sound like him? How does he physically look? What are his doctors saying? What are they leaving out? Best we can do.

    If he does fully recover, COVID will explode in the US even more than it has. He is yet to publicly recommend mask-wearing.

    Just take it day by day. And do your best to protect yourself from this virus. Our leadership has told us that we’re on our own.

  2. Plague Species

    Giving this psychotic nutjob steroids is like pouring gasoline on a fire. It’s throwing psychotic on top of psychotic. It’s Psychotic².

    Trump has proven that the Constitution has no remedy against a madman cult leader in the White House. No one can stop him. Imagine if he gets reelected, all things considered. Nothing can or will be done about it. Especially so long as the stock market goes up, up, up concomitantly with the number of unwashed Americans genocided by the wealthy elite’s Psycho Murderer In Chief.

    Does Trump really have COVFEFE-19? I find it difficult to believe he doesn’t, but he’s so chronically and criminally insane, I could see this being yet another con job. He’s a gaslighter extraordinaire.

    Either way, compare Trump to Putin in their personal response to this pandemic. Trump has sycophantically adulated Putin over the years for being a strong and powerful leader who projects an image of strength and vitality, and yet Putin is beyond-the-pale precautionary related to this pandemic and has hunkered down in what is effectively a sanitized bunker bubble. So I have to ask, Odonald bin Trump, is Putin still a strong and powerful leader considering he’s cowering from COVFEFE-19 versus you who has beat it into submission and shown it to be the hoax that it is?

  3. GlassHammer

    Just in case it was missed , the CDC did acknowledge COVID airborne transmission:

    The CDC guidance came out around the same time the President went to Walter Reed.

    Thete is nothing ground breaking in the report but it’s good to see this update.

    Just remember that if you are inside with others proper ventilation and air circulation is important. And if indoors the 6 foot rule isn’t any guarantee of safety.

  4. anon

    I agree with Michael Moore that we should always assume that what Trump says is a lie until proven true. At this point, there seems to be enough evidence to show that Trump and much of his administration does have COVID-19, and the reception for Amy Coney Barrett was a superspreader event.

    His doctors are hiding information from the public, but we can surmise from the drugs he’s been given that he either has a more serious case of COVID-19 or he’s being overtreated which could also lead to serious health problems. Although he received state of the art medical treatment and round the clock care, COVID-19 is a beast of a virus and it is still a mystery to us. Plenty of people with better health than Trump and good medical care have died or ended up with long-term health problems.

    Trump is not out of the woods by a longshot. It took over a month for the virus to kill Herman Cain. It usually takes several weeks for the virus to kill its host. Trump should have stayed in the hospital this entire week but his ego and desire to appear like an alpha male could very well get him killed.

    Like with Boris Johnson, I have no sympathy for Trump. Unlike most of us, he has access to the best medical care, best doctors, and COVID-19 treatments that are unavailable to the rest of the public. Rather than stay at the hospital for another week, he has chosen to instead return to the White House where he will undoubtedly expose more of his workers and staff to the virus.

  5. UserFriendly

    The consensus is the Trump is playing doctor himself. I highly recommend this post and the comments on it. A bunch of people who do drug design at pharmaceutical companies. Just keep in mind that just because they work for evil companies that doesn’t make them evil.

  6. Dan Lynch

    I tend to believe 15 year old Claudia Conway who reports that Trump is faking recovery.

    But … regardless whether he lives or dies, polling is starting to suggest that Trump’s political career is toast, even taking into account Democrats’ ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Of course, a lame duck Trump could still do a lot of damage, but my guess is that even if he survives Covid he will be knocked on his ass by it, as many Covid survivors are.

  7. Ché Pasa

    I actually heard a throw-away comment yesterday that the only way out of the situation at the White House — thanks to it being a superspreader site with at least one active case on the premises currently — is to abandon it and tear it down.

    It may come to that.

  8. There is a saying that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. The CDC is a committee which, in typical fashion, has waffled back and forth several times on methods of transmission of the corona virus. The CDC committee has become so politicized that there is no point in paying any attention to anything it says.

    If Corona does transmit by aerosol means then cloth masks are useless, and if it does not then masks outdoors are mostly not needed. They are, however, essential for a population which is in a state of panic. If the American public isn’t in a state of panic over Covid19, it would be in a state of panic over something else, so we might as well be engaging in the mask craze.

  9. GlassHammer

    “to abandon it and tear it down” – Ché Pasa

    Imagine the Whitehouse covered in a giant fumigation tent.

    That would be a perfect way to end 2020.

  10. Hugh

    Trump gets a shot of dexamethasone and he’s as high as a kite. There are millions of Americans who at one time or another have taken steroids and they are seeing Trump mimic their experiences. Trump is getting injections of it so he will be higher closer to the injection and he will look worse several hours later, as he did last night, as it begins to wear off. He will also need to be tapered from his steroid if he is on it any length of time at all.

    It looks like everyone else at the White House is being cut loose to take care of themselves as best they can, as well as those at the Amy Coney Barrett super-spreader event. No contact tracing. The one thing you can be sure of is that Trump and his flunkies have learned nothing from any of this. And would anyone here want a groveling sycophant like Sean Conley as their physician?

  11. Hugh

    Bill H, it’s all about odds and probabilities. What kind of things lower exposure? And that’s not just absolute but what lowers the viral load we are exposed to.

  12. GlassHammer

    “If Corona does transmit by aerosol means then cloth masks are useless” – Bill H

    Viral load is still a thing and getting coughed or sneezed on (both indoors and outdoors) is still worse for you. A mask mitigates that.

    The CDC saying particles can float in air just means that when indoors you need ventilation and circulation. Using a fan and opening some windows isn’t a tall order.

    Or don’t follow any of the guidelines, in the end it’s your health, your family’s health, and your community’s health. I am just some guy posting comments.

  13. coloradoblue

    For a quick briefer on dexamethasone flip over to Kevin Drum at Mother Jones, he’s been taking regular doses for years and somewhat regularly talks about it, calling it “The evil dex.”

    Here’s his latest:

  14. Steve

    Masks are a simple measure to reduce virus shedding by carriers, many of whom don’t know they’re sick and spreading it around. I am continually amazed how the idea of going out in a mask so deeply offends so many Americans that they jump at any hint that could possibly be interpreted to show masks aren’t helpful. Just wear the mask. If it turns out it wasn’t necessary, what have you lost? Stop wasting people’s time and attention.

  15. Zachary Smith

    “…cloth masks are useless…”

    Whatever the Very Stable but Humble Genius / Handsome Supermodel / Greatest Baseball Player in New York is saying, his groupies faithfully echo.

    A few days ago I was ambushed by a Southern Relative who flatly declared masks cause halitosis. He informed me masks are responsible for the surge of dental problems through the US. I learned from this person that Covid was just another disease which nearly everybody gets, then quickly recovers from. It is such a trivial thing he doesn’t bother wearing a mask when visiting his frail and elderly mother. (the latter from his own mouth while I’m sitting there stunned)

    More about the multi-talented & very, very, very intelligent person who is smarter than everybody else put together.

    “I build the best buildings.” “Nobody builds walls better than me.” “I created maybe the greatest brand.” “Trump Steaks are the world’s greatest steaks.” “I have the best [golf] courses in the world.” “My Twitter has become so powerful that I can actually make my enemies tell the truth.” “I know all about knives and belt buckles.” “And I know more about wedges than any human being that’s ever lived.” “I know more about [campaign] contributions than anybody.” “Nobody has better toys than I do.” “Nobody loves the Bible better than I do.” “I’m the king of debt. I understand debt better than probably anybody.” “Nobody knows more about debt than I do.” “I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes.” “Nobody knows more about taxes than I do — and income than I do.” “I know the details of taxes better than anybody. Better than the greatest C.P.A.” “Nobody even understands it but me. It’s called devaluation.” “Nobody knows more about trade than me.” “I’m really a great negotiator. I know how to negotiate.” “Deals are my art form. I like making deals, preferably big deals.” “Nobody knows banking better than I do” “I understand money better than anybody.” “I know the details of health care better than most, better than most.” “I know more about the big bills than any president that’s ever been in office.” “I know the H1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me.” “I know the best people.” “I know the smartest negotiators in the world. I know the good ones. I know the bad ones. I know the overrated ones.” “I’m really good at war.” “I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me.” “Nobody would be tougher on ISIS than Donald Trump.” “Nobody is bigger or better at the military than I am.” “I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand.” “There’s nobody that understands the horror of nuclear better than me.” “Nobody is fighting for the veterans like I’m fighting for the veterans.” “Nobody’s better to people with disabilities than me.” “There’s nobody more pro-Israel than I am.” “Nobody knows jobs like I do!” “Nobody knows politicians better than I do.” “Nobody knows the game better than I do.” “Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it.” “Nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump.” “I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth.” “Nobody’s ever had crowds like [I’ve] had.” “Nobody can do it like me. Nobody. Nobody can do it like me, honestly.” “Nobody is stronger than me.” “It’s all because of me.” “I know words. I have the best words.”

    The Trumpies here are always asserting this fabulous person also knows more about Pharmaceutical and Medical issues than any of the pretenders with advanced degrees in “science”.

    Example: how many extended lectures have we seen here about the wonders of hydroxychloroquine?

    Now we have the Orange POTUS hyping Covid as a fountain of youth – a way to feel 20 years younger.

    How long will it be before that Southern Relative of mine is telling me Covid is actually a good and positive thing?

  16. GlassHammer

    “going out in a mask so deeply offends so many” – Steve

    The anti-mask thing is ego driven, and that is the nicest possible way I can put it.

  17. Willy

    Trump is all “Watch what I do, not what I really do” like some bad magician who doesn’t care that they’re a bad magician. Nothing matters as long as there’s paying children to act all amazed.

    The Trump Family Grifters will do anything to preserve their grifting. Yet peasantry needn’t be in their future. Wouldn’t reality TV provide them a living long after the debts come due?

    Hope lies in their victims. A critical mass of former supplicants ruined by firing, humiliation, disease and death is surely (but IMO far too slowly), peeling away the faithful loyal.

  18. Plague Species

    An intervention? What I would give to see it. But it will never, would never, happen. They’re too frightened of the Big Bad Orange Chihuahua.

    The last paragraph is enlightening. Fat Donny’s handlers have been doing for him what he and his siblings did for Fred Trump Sr.. Instead of a direct line to the secretary like they did for Fred Sr., it’s a direct line to the Kremlin and Vlad Putin for Fat Donny the criminally insane hopeless narcissist. Same difference as far as the sentiment of the direct line goes.

    Vlad egged Trump on with the vitality comment. He wants Trump to drop dead before the election and call Biden’s and the DNC’s bluff. Vlad knows as well as we do that the Dems don’t want the presidency and are doing their damndest to lose the presidential election. Vlad wants to drag Biden into the Oval Office kicking and screaming all the way. Just like the old days of democracy in Greece. Those who don’t want to lead make the best leaders.

    There is a long history in the Trump family of denying serious illness. According to a Trump family friend, Trump’s father, Fred Trump Sr., insisted on working even after his Alzheimer’s disease advanced in the 1990s. “To retire is to expire!” Fred Sr. would say. The friend said that as Fred Sr.’s disease worsened––he once came down the stairs wearing three neckties––the family created a system so that Fred could think he was still running the Trump Organization. Every day Fred Sr. would go to the office in Brooklyn and they would give him blank papers to sort through and sign. The phone on Fred’s desk was set up so that it could only dial out to his secretary. “Fred pretended to work,” the family friend said.

    Maybe Trump will lose a bunch of weight. Losing weight is one of the side effects of this virus. In a few months, he’ll be able to see his mushroom dick in the shower for the first time in twenty years. Every dark cloud has a silver lining playbook.

  19. Jeremy

    There’s probably a fully staffed hospital facility in the White House.

    If they could set one up for Hilary in Chelsea’s apartment, then they can surely do the same in the White House for Trump.

  20. Mark Pontin

    ‘Imagine the Whitehouse covered in a giant fumigation tent.’

    Easier to irradiate it so as to sterilize it. Perhaps with a small neutron bomb.

  21. Mark Pontin

    For them what don’t know —

    ‘A neutron bomb, officially defined as a type of enhanced radiation weapon (ERW), is a low yield thermonuclear weapon designed to maximize lethal neutron radiation in the immediate vicinity of the blast while minimizing the physical power of the blast itself.’

  22. BlizzardOfOzzz

    Steve and Glass Hammer,

    “going out in a mask so deeply offends so many” – Steve

    The anti-mask thing is ego driven, and that is the nicest possible way I can put it.

    Besides your dignity and your integrity, no, it doesn’t cost you anything (yet) to follow the arbitrary diktats of proven liars.

    But I remember Solzhenitsyn’s exhortation: “live not by lies”.

  23. S Brennan

    Having been hospitalized almost died from sepsis [what actually kills most Covid-19 patients] two years ago and having been saved by a combination that included steroids I can not see what the fuss is about.

    Yes, it’s another opportunity for the haters of all things Trump to perform their virtue signalling strut, but really, do Trump haters need an excuse? For many commenters here “spitting on the ground every time Trump’s name gets mentioned” [or not mentioned] is a ritual that seems to require an unlimited number of daily public supplications.

    Anyway, back to the subject, while not an “expert”, like some of the posters above, I did go through the actual experience of sepsis and while steroids did make me feel slightly better, the damage to all my internal organs kept me from doing any cartwheels or making plans for any neocolonial regime change war, which seemed to afflict Clinton-Albright/Bush-Cheney/Obama-Hillary-Biden sans steroids.

    Just last week, many here said Trump was pulling a Jussie Smollett, FAKING IT, this week it’s TRUMP’S HIGH ON STEROIDS! Why not just combine the two stories? TRUMP IS FAKING IT TO GET STEROIDS !!! yeah..yeah..that’s the story! YES! Let’s all strut our VIRTUE by serving up yet another unsubstantiated crock of hate Trump bullshit.

    Just like the hippies of the ’60s, all antiwar until past the draft age and then…and then, send in the working class to fight a war on the border of Russia, that’ll teach Putin, that’ll show that elitist draft-dodgers and the children of elitist draft-dodgers mean business!

  24. NR

    “But I remember Solzhenitsyn’s exhortation: “live not by lies.”

    Coming from a Trumper, the irony of this statement is off the charts.

  25. Hugh

    “Fred pretended to work.” Lime father, like son.

    Joint chiefs of staff are also quarantining after Coast Guard head tests positive.

    Walter Reed has staff and facilities that the White House doesn’t have. Trump said he really got the coronavirus now. Well yes, he tests positive but everything he does shows he doesn’t understand it at all. No contact tracing. Delay in going to Walter Reed. SUVing around Walter Reed. No mask going back to White House. Tweets downplaying virus. Still planning to debate. No awareness of the 200,000 Americans dead from the virus and his responsibility for that.

  26. Hugh

    Sorry, Like father, like son.

  27. NR

    It should be very instructive to note that even though Trump has been pushing hydroxychloroquine as a COVID treatment to the rubes that follow him for months, when he got sick with the virus himself, he didn’t take it and instead got a special antiviral cocktail that’s not available to the public. That right there should tell you all you need to know about it (of course, anybody stupid enough to take medical advice from Donald Trump will likely have this lesson sail right over their head, but what can you do?)

  28. Plague Species

    Imagine the Whitehouse covered in a giant fumigation tent.

    Considering the Trumps are the epitome of Breaking Bad, Gypsies that they are, I believe this is a job for Vamonos Pest (Build The Wall), don’t you? The Trump family can remain inside the tent and continue to cook up their meth as they are, and the virus is, eradicated.

  29. Zachary Smith

    Something I don’t usually do: offer a link to the generally wretched LGM site.

    Strange — “grandma should die so Timmy can sit at the bar at Hooter’s on Sunday” seemed like a winning message to appeal to the most likely voters, not sure what went wrong.

    Old people have finally noticed how they are the sacrificial lambs for the Trumpies. They were all in with him in 2016, but no longer. Very probably a landslide at the Presidential level, but I have no idea if this will carry over with the Congress. Even if it does, I’ve great confidence the Democrats will piss away any advantage they get as soon as they possibly can. Just as they did after the 2008 election.

    One more thing: Trump’s bullying of his doctors may yet have some serious consequences for him.

    Donald Trump’s photo op on the Truman Balcony following his return to the White House with COVID-19 is one of the most disturbing, absorbing, foreign images I can recall.

    White House staffers are crazy to still be there, but my sympathies are for the ordinary employees for whom this is their job site. Hopefully THEY aren’t being bullied to go around maskless. In the unlikely event I was either sort, the first time the Orange POTUS made a smartass remark about my mask, I’d put the quote in my resignation letter – a thing to be written within five minutes of the event.

  30. Hugh

    The back flips and gymnastics needed to defend their Trump love in the time of Covid would be an Olympics level event (if Covid hadn’t done in the Olympics for now).

    The erection of giant size strawmen and knocking them down. Positively heroic.

  31. Zachary Smith

    The back flips and gymnastics needed to defend their Trump love in the time of Covid …

    If you’re a tRump Kisser, you do what must be done. Lawyer strategy:

    “If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have neither the law nor the facts, yell a lot and pound on the table”.

    Yelling a lot about “haters” is obviously the thing to do, for it’s impossible to defend Trump any other way.

    Trump: It’s Actually Good I Contracted the Coronavirus

    To the untrained eye, the fact that the president contracted a debilitating virus that will degrade his physical and mental functioning, and might well kill him, seems … bad. But to the cult of Donald Trump, presidential failings do not exist. If there appears to be bad news, one of two responses are available. The first is to dismiss the bad news as a sinister plot against Trump. (The news of Trump’s misconduct is a leak, a witch hunt, or a hoax — evidence of the perfidy of the deep state or the fake news, and certainly not an indication of misconduct by Trump.) The second option is to redefine the bad news as actually good.

    Author Chait could have have added to the ‘dismissal’ list the preferred technique used here – damning irrational Trump Haters who blind themselves to his endless list of shining virtues. Why else aren’t we Haters thrilled by the prospects of a high-intensity UV colonoscopy – or the chance to Gargle With Bleach.

  32. GlassHammer

    “follow the arbitrary diktats of proven liars.” – BlizzardOfOzzz

    The plurality of the medical community in this nation and many others are all spreading misinformation about masks and viral loads? And they have all been doing it through multiple health crisis going back decades?

    And what is standard medical protocol for PPE use is fabricated? And again, fabricated going back decades?

    I am not convinced of your arguments BlizzardOfOzzz and I think your calculation of risk/reward is way off.

  33. different clue

    Whatever else we may call President Trump, we can certainly in all fairness call him the Typhoid MAGA corona-spreader in Chief. He will leave a trail of super-spreader events behind him wherever he goes until his body is cleared of shedable virus.

    People who want to enhance their survival chances should try avoiding venues frequented by sticky masses of Typhoid MAGAtard corona-spreading anti-maskers as much as possible.

    Which approach is better? Mask up and practice Safe Six? Or go maskless and breathe it raw and spread it around to show MAGA pride? Which approach is better? Let Darwin decide.

  34. NR

    Glass Hammer:

    You’re talking to someone who thinks that the entire medical and scientific community is lying and Donald Trump is telling the truth. I’d call him a troll, but unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who genuinely believe the things he does.

  35. Zachary Smith

    Via Naked Capitalism:

    Now, when we at WHGS first heard the sad news of President Trump’s positive COVID test, once again we had faith and prayed, yet we knew our President would find a way to knockout COVID in early rounds of this battle. President Trump, as you know, is a fan of boxing, and the new coin design features more than a hint of superhero qualities in history’s most fascinating president. President Trump, whether you are in his corner or not, is a sui generis—a one-of-a-kind, bigger than life, singular energetic force. President Trump’s energy fills not merely a room, not merely a stadium, but fills—more like occupies—a mythological space in our modern, post-modern, or whatever we call this New Era in which we live, perhaps, let’s call it the Post-COVID Era. President Trump is a force and like it or not, hugely powerful forces hugely attract and also hugely repel – one reason for bifurcation of human emotions regarding our most unique pro-American President. President Trump’s defeat of COVID is a symbol for each of us that COVID can be beaten, not always, sadly, but more often than the fear of COVID that is relentlessly pounded into us each minute of each hour of each day by many media outlets. President Trump’s defeat of COVID is iconic, universal, heroic, for, indeed, in action, President Trump embraced experimental approaches for which he has been derided by anti-Trump media outlets such as CNN. Be bold in fighting COVID, do not cower to COVID, do not allow media messages to condition you to fear our world—this may be the symbol of President Trump’s defeat of COVID. Our American leaders must be strong, for the world is at once beautiful and cruel, and it is against the cruelty of the world that an American leader must be strong. Like it or not, President Donald J. Trump is strong to a mythic level; hence, my final coin seeks to convey the mythic core strengths of President Donald J. Trump. The design is intentionally concealed until its release.

    Despite the “pig in a poke” aspect of this, the new coin will be a splendid thing to own for both the true tRump Kissers and the Paid RNC Trolls. Something to cherish forever. The link title is to another one in the series, but it seems to be equally appropriate.


  36. BlizzardOfOzzz

    Glass Hammer, here is what the US Surgeon General said in March:

    “You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider,” Adams said. “Folks who don’t know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus,” he added.

    Adams’ comments Monday reiterate his blaring tweet from the weekend, urging people to “STOP BUYING MASKS.” He said that they were “NOT effective” to the general public and noted that the increased demand in masks puts medical professionals at risk.

    Then later he said this:

    US Surgeon General Jerome Adams explained at the White House coronavirus briefing on April 3 that the recommendation changed because so many people with COVID-19 don’t show symptoms or aren’t showing symptoms yet, but they can still spread the disease to other people.

    “In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends and the task force recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain,” Adams said. “These include places like grocery stores and pharmacies. We especially recommend this in areas of significant community-based transmission. It is critical.”

    Notice: he said he was changing his recommendation because “the science has changed” — a clear lie, because the first statement refers primarily to concerns over improper use, and to a mask shortage. You will be aware that if a liar says “ok, I was lying then but now I’m telling the truth”, he is likely still lying. These people are very obviously not to be trusted, and I wonder about people not only persist in trusting them, but insist on the point that they are paragons of trustworthiness.

  37. GlassHammer

    “You’re talking to someone who thinks that the entire medical and scientific community is lying and Donald Trump is telling the truth. I’d call him a troll, but unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who genuinely believe the things he does.” NR

    Yes, even assuming the post was in good faith I know the beliefs are too entrenched for any argument or line of questioning to work.

    What really irks me with anti-maskers is the person advocating that you take additional risk isn’t ever going to suffer your specific consequences.

    You know the dynamic where you get sick and then get fired is still in place even in this pandemic. (Hell especially in this pandemic.)

    So even if you survive the disease you could easily be out of work. And God only knows the downward spiral that would lead to for you and those you care about.

  38. Trump’s rapid recovery just goes to show you why more lefties should turn to God. I’m thinking of people like Michael Moore, who told us ‘My Thoughts and Prayers Are With Covid-19’

    Since Moore isn’t very religious, God just ignored his prayer to slay Donald Trump with covid. I don’t know, and don’t want to know, but I’m guessing Trump’s foreskin is intact, too.

    If you don’t make deposits in the religious Bank, you shouldn’t expect to make any withdrawals. You can’t fool the Great-Teller-In-The-Sky.

  39. BlizzardOfOzzz

    Glass Hammer,
    This is what the Surgeon General said in March:

    “You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider,” Adams said. “Folks who don’t know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus,” he added.

    Adams’ comments Monday reiterate his blaring tweet from the weekend, urging people to “STOP BUYING MASKS.” He said that they were “NOT effective” to the general public and noted that the increased demand in masks puts medical professionals at risk.

    Got it? Wearing a mask if you’re not a trained pro can 1) increase your risk of catching a virus, 2) increase its spread.

    The same guy later said he changed his mind, “because the science changed”. But he wasn’t talking about science in the quote above, he was talking about improper usage. Lies on top of lies. These are the people you not only persist n trusting, but insist on their general trustworthiness.

  40. Willy

    metamars, a white Christian. Herman Cain was a Christian.

  41. Willy

    Meanwhile Blizz, there was recently one helluva unmasked pool party in Wuhan.

  42. different clue

    Fauci also repeated and spread this “noble lie” about masks being “not effective” for the general public because the general public is too stupid to know how to use them. They told this lie in order to trick the general public into not buying and using masks so that the health care professionals could monopolize all the masks for themselves.

    Naked Capitalism has covered this early lying by Fauci and other spokesclones for the Medical Industrial Complex about masks being “not effective”.

    Fauci later admitted to this having been a lie right from the start and then tried to justify lying on the grounds of making sure “the right people” had the masks. Now that mask supplies are sufficient, it has become “no longer necessary” to lie about masks “not working” for the general public because the general public is “too stupid” to know how to use them.

  43. GlassHammer

    “Got it? Wearing a mask if you’re not a trained pro can 1) increase your risk of catching a virus, 2) increase its spread.” – BlizzardOfOzzz

    Holy hell, no one needs to tell you to avoid touching your face (you should have been taught that as a child) and securing a mask to your face can be demonstrated via video, diagram, or simple instructions. The Surgeon General could give you sufficient instruction in just a few minutes.

    Also if you touch your face after touching other surfaces you are failing yet another medical guideline.

    See this is why risk mitigation has layers to it.

    “But he wasn’t talking about science in the quote above, he was talking about improper usage.” – BlizzardOfOzzz

    Or… based on the science he weighed the danger of improper usage against the danger of no mask and concluded that even with improper useage the mask was still a better option.

    And for the record I don’t invest all my decisions on one source when it’s important. When it’s important I look at multiple sources for a consensus.

    So again I see a plurality of medical professionals across nations and across time say “Masks help you so use one.”

  44. Stirling S Newberry

    The problem is that there is the presidency and the president, and they are two different things. While Trump may have the president stacked with true believers the larger presidency is now wondering just how far they are willing to go, which means how far are they willing to be blamed for the collapse of the united states government. It is one thing where everyone says “he is the president”it is quite another thing when resistance to the actions of the with President does things which the presidency has to explain. You can only go so far in allowing the president to do whatever he wants to do, and we are now coming to an important point: unscientific things do not work. You can build a missile but the laws of physics determine whether it flies. You can say what you want about Covid-19 but it is the laws of biology which work not be laws of communication or miscommunication.

    For about the last 40 years, the trope of the government is that it can say whatever it likes and as long as there is some doubt as to whether it is when it says it is the government can go one. Unfortunately this leads to situations where the actions of the US government are, verifiably, simply false. And right now the only way to enforce this is by a gut poll of the bureaucrats. This simply will not do. Right now we have no way of knowing whether a given action will be legal or not because in fact the test is by doing.

    This is a 2 party foul up, and eventually enough people will decide that they have had enough. But it is not this year or 4 years from now, but it is soon. One way to fix the problem is by having science be along with republic, democracy, and bureaucracy be part of the underlying rules that the government functions under. This is a position which about 40% going to what the to 45% nation does not want to listen to.

    And Eddie Van Halen is dead at 65.

  45. Willy

    Eddie Van Halen smoked his cigarettes inside his mask, proving that masks cause cancer.

    I once debated with a guy who claimed that since Russian liberals tolerated the evils of the terroristic Bolsheviks, that liberals were evil.

    I said no, the Russian liberals were foolish and weak. Unchecked power is a multiplier. It always unleashes more of whatever those now-powerful did while acquiring power. If they were terrorists, they’ll terrorize the entire population once in power. If they were grifters, they’ll grift the entire population once in power. I’m not sure what scientists would do, but I think our children would have to take twice the science classes and maybe even wear lab coats to school.

    Choose wisely people.

  46. Zachary Smith

    From the Moon of Alabama site:

    Trump can no longer convince the voters, especially the older ones, that he did everything to protect them from the virus. What he probably still can do is to convince them that it does not matter because the virus can be beaten.

    Despite the name, the blogger “b” of MOA is supposedly German and lives there as well. Most of the posts at the site are quite good, and a scant few are lousy. This one is pretty good, but his conclusion that Trump is in some way admirable for risking his own life is unsupportable. Trump is taking at least one mood-altering medication, and IMO it’s his drug-addled brain which is making the critical decisions. Another example:

    President Donald Trump on Tuesday tweeted that he told his team to stop negotiating with congressional Democrats on a stimulus package until after the election.

    I doubt if other Republicans in the 2020 election are thrilled by this move, for it can only do harm to them. I expect to see other really crazy decisions to be made by the Orange Tweeter in coming days and weeks.

  47. BlizzardOfOzzz

    GlassHammer, I don’t know where you are finding this “consensus”, let alone “across all places and times”. That is not what I’ve seen. If anything I would assume the consensus what these people said reflexively, before everyone lost their minds, as in the quote from the Surgeon General. But then, since they clearly lie for expedience, who could say?

    But if we are now claiming that everyone can in fact follow the protocols of trained nurses, in every public space at all times (and I think you know it is more involved than just “not touching your face”, which itself is a taller ask than you make out) … this is another thing, is it not? Already the whole “it doesn’t cost anything” is quickly losing its sheen. That does seem to be the claim, though. My four year old’s preschool decided they would be constantly cleaning every surface with bleach — which of course they abandoned after one day, because it’s insane. We all still have to pretend though, of course (“living by lies”, again).

  48. Hugh

    The Surgeon General Jerome Adams, a Trump appointee, initially opposed needle exchanges back in 2017 as Indiana Health Commissioner during an HIV outbreak –largely driven by drug users because he considered them, the needle exchanges, immoral. Citing Adams as an authority is to put it mildly problematic.

    But in the absence or worse completely wrong-headed Presidential leadership of a national health crisis, we still see mistakes by the “experts” but we will see what we have seen, many more experts trying to thread the needle between the data and a whack Commander-in-Chief.

  49. On Trump saying to not negotiate with Congressional Democrats:

    This was an idiotic political move by Trump. Yet another unforced error. Kind of reminds me when Trump said he was going for permanent cuts to the payroll tax, but would protect Social Security. Of course, he didn’t say how he would accomplish this miracle, other than to say “We’ll be paying into Social Security through the general fund.”

    Of course, nobody put any trust in this utterance. Kudlow walked it back a day or two later.

    I predict Trump will walk this back, and claim that he was just trying to pressure Pelosi. This will not impress anybody, and so Trump will fall another point or two behind Joe Biden. A month before the election!

    America needs a better Trump than Trump. By that I mean, somebody who is a) more of a populist than Trump has turned out to be and b) a better politician. He’s still preferable to Biden, but that’s like saying he’s better than Hillary Clinton.

    Unfortunately, Trump never seemed to wrap his mind around just how lucky, and unskilled, a politician he was. Even if he miraculously wins, he’s not going to have long coattails. So, he may end having to negotiate with both Pelosi and Schumer.

  50. Hugh

    Trump’s populism consisted of passing a big tax cut for the rich. Coronavirus relief packages are for tens of millions of ordinary schmucks like us so unimportant, no hurry.

  51. NRG

    “You know the dynamic where you get sick and then get fired is still in place even in this pandemic. (Hell especially in this pandemic.)” – This is true. I talk to dozens of unemployed people per week, and can confirm this happens. More commonly, people are canned or quit because the precautions their employers take against COVID-19 are inadequate.

    I’ll also note that the orange king appears to be losing Metamars, which isn’t something I thought I’d see happen. Maybe it was his turning on hydroxychloraquine as a bunch of quack nonsense, and not taking it after recommending it to his worshipers?

  52. Ché Pasa

    So has he lost the Mandate of Heaven?

    It was obvious when it happened to Bush — the catastrophic response to Hurricane Katrina. Hardly anybody took him for anything other than a dry drunk fool after that. The thing was, were it not for 9/11 he wouldn’t have had the Mandate at all given the hinky business behind the 2000 election (and they say somewhat worse hinky in 2004). He was in office but neither loved nor feared.

    Trump never had the Mandate. His ascension was due to inherent flaws in the electoral process and multiple system failures that allowed him to claim the Oval Office. But he acts as if he were Divinely Ordained. Even now.

    It appears the gods are turning against him, though.

  53. Zachary Smith

    Random thoughts: Trump is old, sick, and faces the prospect of getting smashed in the upcoming election. A LOSER who is possibly still on mind-altering drugs.

    For a fair while I’ve thought he has destroyed his own brand. The man is awash in debt, and I can’t imagine who would consider bailing him out. Make that Old, Sick, and (by his standards) Poor.

    Hope I’m wrong about this, but coming events may force a change in the time a new President is sworn in. I’m no historian, but a quick lookup showed that Lincoln had to watch Buchanan putz around until March 4. During that time momentum towards a US Civil War became unstoppable. At some point the date was changed, and Kennedy was sworn in January 20. We may need to change that yet again to the last week of November.

    Does anybody expect Trump to be anything except a Sore Loser? Many years of extremely lazy Congresses have gifted Presidents far too many powers. He might veto ANY new Covid bill. He might shut down the Government the same way. (And some other things I won’t mention in print.)

    Congressional leaders missed a self-imposed deadline on Friday to strike an agreement on legislation that would keep the government open through Dec. 11, with House Democrats now hoping to file the stopgap spending bill by Monday.

    An article I found from 2017 is quite out of date except for the title and subtitle:

    Trump’s domestic policy agenda may have collapsed. His war powers, however, are almost unlimited.

    The rightwingnuts pretend to worry about Iran, but what about a sick old man who is totally depressed, has too much power, and with access to nukes? Not at all an encouraging prospect.

  54. mago

    As one of the many astute commenters here has noted, the ruling class is fueled by speed. Methamphetamines of one sort or another—the difference just a matter of indoles.
    Shattered tattered and all of that.
    What’s a steroid or two, another corporate burger?
    Standing in the shadows, etc

  55. Heitzso

    I believe one reason Trump took the Republican nomination back in ’16 is the incredible amount of media coverage he received across the board by all of the media that thought he was a buffoon who grabbed lots of eyeballs and who would never receive the nomination.

    Last night I realized that I can’t stop seeing/hearing/thinking Trump. Just in the past week: taxes, debate, and now covid19. Each monstrous event suppresses the prior monstrous event. But taken as a whole Trump absolutely dominates the media.

    Will these insane media levels in response to an insane President drive his base to vote? Or in some other way alter the election and surprise us?

  56. GlassHammer

    “GlassHammer, I don’t know where you are finding this “consensus”, let alone “across all places and times”. BlizzardOfOzzz

    Masks have been used as PPE to mitigate contagious for decades. You would have to go out of your way to avoid knowing this fact. Christ how do you think Asian countries handled the SARS outbreak? Why do you think they not only openly wear masks but have it as a culturally accepted norm now?

    “If anything I would assume the consensus what these people said reflexively, before everyone lost their minds” BlizzardOfOzzz

    No, I assume people constantly update their priors based on new information from multiple sources especially when the stakes are high.

    “But then, since they clearly lie for expedience, who could say?” BlizzardOfOzzz

    That some lie doesn’t mean all of them do. Shutting out entire networks of information due to some bad actors is foolish and fatal.

    “But if we are now claiming that everyone can in fact follow the protocols of trained nurses, in every public space at all times” – BlizzardOfOzzz

    Saying “You can learn basic hygiene like not touching your face, or you can learn to be 90% effective at wearing a mask.” is not the same as saying you need to be a God Damn nurse or doctor. Did you need to be a professional chef to feed yourself or to teach someone else how to cook a dish? Of course you didn’t.

    “My four year old’s preschool decided they would be constantly cleaning every surface with bleach — which of course they abandoned after one day, because it’s insane.” BlizzardOfOzzz

    So what we abandon any all routine cleaning because a pre-school decided to overuse bleach? Or are you saying it somehow invalidates the medical reasons to clean surfaces?
    You are a hard one to follow.

  57. @NRG

    “I’ll also note that the orange king appears to be losing Metamars, which isn’t something I thought I’d see happen.”

    Following Ben Shapiro, I’ve always been for good Trump, and against bad Trump. If you check out my vanity sub-reddit, /r/the_donald_goodandbad, you’ll quickly see that there are more (BAD TRUMP) entries than (GOOD TRUMP) entries.

    I still hope he beats the pants off of Biden, because the Democrats are significantly more evil than the Republicans. Over 3 months of no criticism of the violence supposedly ascribed to protesting police violence, until the polls tightened. Also, as becomes ever more obvious, the Democrats helped run a phoney Russiagate smear operation against candidate Trump and President Trump. I call that treason, though I don’t know that it rises to the that level, legally. Anybody with half a brain knows that Flynn was entrapped, but his life is still being ruined because he’s on the wrong side. The Democrats care nothing about the rule of law. The Republicans are willing to impoverish us, but are basically content to just write plutocratic laws (and not enforce good laws, like anti-trust laws.) They’re mostly not interested in throwing us little people in jail, though they were far more guilty pushing for draconian anti-drug laws.

    “Maybe it was his turning on hydroxychloraquine as a bunch of quack nonsense, and not taking it after recommending it to his worshipers?”

    I’m not aware that Trump has ever “turned” on hydroxychloroquine. He didn’t use it in his recent hospital stay, apparently deferring to his medical team, which isn’t exactly a stupid thing to do, especially considering he can’t order doctors to do anything. (Though everything I’ve read/heard about remdesevir (basically from Chris Martenson) points to it being inferior to hydroxychloroquine, under optimal application scenarios; and not having any really strong evidence.)

    Hydroxychloroquine is hardly “quack nonsense”. If you’re interested in the science, see the aggregation website Unfortunately, stopped polling for most effective covid-19 treatments by physicians from around the world. But, for a while, it was top-rated.

    I take it you’re not a physician who treats covid patients…..

  58. KT Chong

    It takes 9 days after someone with the coronavirus is checked into the hospital to know if he is safe:

    Day 9 will be this weekend or early next week for Trump.

    Given that Trump has the best care and doctors, this is unlikely to happen: this weekend he is rushed back to the hospital, and then goes into a coma and put on a ventilator until he wins the election, and then he passes away from the coronavirus.

    However, one can only hope…

  59. Thomas B Golladay

    Looking over Trump’s released health info, he was taking Zinc without an Ionophore (HCQ, Quercin, or Ivermectin).

    So he got a mild case. Whether it was deliberate or not, I’ll leave up to you to decide.

    But above all wear a mask. It lowers your viral load and prevents secondary infections like the flu. Take Zinc with an Ionophore, and add Vit D and C.

    Overall Trump’s base is solid and will show up, the Democratic Base is fracturing. Polls keep oversampling College Students, the bulk of whom won’t show up and vote.

  60. Mark Pontin

    Covid-related ….

    The gig economy and platform capitalism comes to the eviction business. Kind of a refinement of Gilded Age robber baron Jay Gould’s dictum that “I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.” In this case, “I can hire one half of the working class to foreclose on the other half.”

    ‘Gig Economy Company Launches Uber, But for Evicting People
    A company called Civvl says evicting people is the “FASTEST GROWING MONEY MAKING GIG DUE TO COVID-19.’

    Only problem is, where are all the new tenants going to come from to pay landlords rent on all those soon-to-be-empty places after so many people have become homeless, broke, and not credit-worthy? America has become both practically and morally a cretinous country.

  61. @Thomas P Golladay

    Do you have any information on what research shows about mask wearing versus phase of epidemic? My own pet theory is that masks help a lot early in an epidemic, and after what I call herd immunity (= group robustness against symptomatic cases; NOT simply high seroprevalence of antibodies), they don’t help. Well, they may help extremely fragile individuals who somehow didn’t get significant exposure when everybody else was getting it. My expectation is that it’s not justified to do widespread mask wearing, to society as a whole, when this point is reached.

    I’ve heard wildly different things about what the science says. According to Denis Rancourt, RCT’s of mask wearing show little, or no, benefit. (He basically dismisses non-RCT experiments.) I’ve only heard a 15 minute talk by him, I think an extract from his exchange/debate with Dr. David Kyle Johnson, @ “(FULL) Digi-Debates. The Face Mask Debate” on youtube.

    I don’t even know how you begin to do an RCT with humans. How can anybody not know if they’re wearing a mask, or not? Is there such a thing as a fake mask, which is guaranteed not to work?

    OTOH, Chris Martenson has long maintained that they’re essential. He recently weighed in with a youtube program “Be Smart Wear a Mask”, he goes into details about inoculatum, and data from animal studies about various levels of loads of virus exposure. From his talk, it’s surely better to get a lower load of a virus, as compared to, say, and LD50 dose (a lethal dose that kills 50% of a population). Imagine if you’re on the short end of the 50%….

    However, Martenson doesn’t go into the net effect of repeated, non-toxic exposures to the virus (does this continually ramp up immunity, or not? Analogous to booster shots of vaccines. And what would be the effect on the viral shedding of these individuals?). In other words, what is happening to the robust part of the population, as the epidemic proceeds, and then recedes? His talk, and the research discussed by somebody named Ghandi, seem to only deal with a single exposure.

    Furthermore, if it’s the case that repeated, non-toxic doses of virus increase immune robustness, while decreasing viral shedding, it’s an easy guess that masks are counter-productive at some point during the “receding” part of the epidemic. Why? Because the exposure to the inoculatum is too LOW to derive further benefits from such exposure. Hence, if we somehow integrate the net exposure to the public to inoculatum over a period of weeks or months, it will be higher in this over-protective scenario.

    This is related, methinks, to the idea that it was a big mistake to not let small children go to school, and spread the virus amongst themselves. They would have done so asymptomatically, and thus made their contribution to herd immunity that much sooner. Because of the school lockdowns, American children pose more of a threat to American oldsters than Swedish children pose to Swedish oldsters.

    One can imaging a scenario where a study reports very little benefit or loss to wearing masks; but the granular data would show benefit early on, changing to no loss/gain, changing to detriment, as the epidemic proceeds.

  62. Willy

    Meanwhile and back in reality, the USA still leads the world in both cases and deaths, with every other country, large and small, population sparse and dense, developed or not, being behind our once mighty nation.

    But the USA is among the most Christianized of countries.

  63. Plague Species

    As loathsome as I find the orange turd blossom, Trump literally has been walking on water his entire life. He’s a malevolent version of Chauncey Gardner. In fact, Chauncey was more skilled and valuable than Trump considering Chauncey knew how to garden. Trump can’t even do that, has no skills period and no value and is in fact less than a zero, yet he lives like royalty. It says something about how f*cked up this system is. Omelas is a cruel joke. A house of horrors. Considering that, and considering Trump’s October Surprize Miracle of stomping COVFEFE-19, it’s not only plausible, but highly probable, Trump will continue to walk on water and “win” reelection in November. Six million Americans will perish from COVFEFE-19 during his second term and the stock market will soar to 40,000. Life Is Good.

    Hey Rachel, do you wish you never wished Fat Donny well, you hypocrite? Of course you have no regrets. Hypocrites never do. Trump doesn’t regret either. Nothing. Anything. Ever. You and Trump have more in common than you care to acknowledge and admit.

  64. GlassHammer

    “But the USA is among the most Christianized of countries.” – Willy

    No, God sent plenty of doctors but we prefer our twitter conspiracies.

  65. BlizzardOfOzzz

    Guys, you seem stuck on what Belloc identified a century ago as the modern/materialist heresy. Christ made a lot of promises to those who would follow him, but an end to suffering and death in this life was not among them. It should almost go without saying that not just Christianity, but every religion and philosophy of life, has always recognized suffering and death as part of the human condition. It was only in very recent times that technological progress started seducing people into thinking that suffering and death could be eliminated.

    Like Prosperity Gospel, it totally misses the point.

  66. Plague Species

    Katie Miller, Stephen Miller’s wife who allegedly had COVFEFE-19 a few months earlier, is taunting Kamala Harris for insisting on a plexiglass shield for tonight’s debate. Pence has refused to use one and the debate commission conceded to his wishes. Pence, ironically but not surprisingly, heads up the White House pandemic task force.

    Hey Pence, fine, you don’t want the plexiglass. No problem. Drop the Secret Service detachment as well then, stud. Prove to us how brave you really are. The plexiglass saves others’ lives, not just your own. The Secret Service only saves your life. How Christian of you. How brave you are.

    Curious how Pence has not contracted COVFEFE-19, yet everyone else surrounding Trump seems to have — allegedly. Amy Coney Barrett also, curiously, has not contracted it. How can that be? God’s protecting her? Trump practically raped her at the nomination ceremony in the Rose Garden. He effectively grabbed her handmaiden pussy. And yet she is miraculously virus free yet Trump’s entire staff allegedly has the virus.

    This isn’t adding up. Where is the true investigative reporting when you truly need it?

  67. Willy

    I respect the kind of Christianity which helps discipline people like Russell Wilson or alcoholics anonymous into success with whatever life missions or tribulations they encounter. This kind seems to have more personally responsible members and benefit for the rest of society.

    I disrespect the kind of Christianity which gives out cash prizes and miracle presidents, not necessarily for supplicating correctly, but for belonging to the right team. This kind seems full of people who can rationalize anything while reasoning quite poorly.

    Is the difference between these two a simple matter of intelligence? Is the degree of self-awareness and insight the difference?

  68. Willy

    Plague Species, I’m looking at an article claiming that “At least 27 in Trump’s circle have tested positive for coronavirus”. So is Pence a matter of time, or a matter of miracles? If his family, friends, and coworkers all suffer or die around him, while he stands healthy alone, then maybe it’ll be the time to believe in miracles again. And drag him into a lab for testing I suppose.

    I really wish metamars would explain why Herman Cain got his despite all the praying. I can get why the founder of Turning Point USA had to be called to heaven. Maybe it really was time for his boy Charlie to carry on with mocking the masking. But why have red states so quickly surpassed blue in incidence and death? I wish he’d do it in one short clear paragraph instead of with lots of bafflegabby scientism. Far too confusing for my little brain.

  69. GlassHammer

    “Is the difference between these two a simple matter of intelligence? Is the degree of self-awareness and insight the difference?” – Willy

    No the diffetences comes from something like:
    -The Denomination/Sect
    -The Pastor
    -The Congregation
    -The Family
    -The Person

    And how those things are nested within time, space, and culture matters.

    You have to keep in mind that Christianity was hopelessly fractured in the U.S. by the great issues of the 19th century. It never regained it’s full force after that.

  70. Zachary Smith

    Barrett had Covid back in the summer, and is – for the moment – effectively immune.

  71. Hugh

    Pence is the best evidence I have seen that cardboard doesn’t get Covid. He will have to defend Trump’s record tonight so he will be lying his head off and changing the subject as often as he can.

    BTW Amy Coney Barrett had Covid in the summer. So is unlikely to get it again.

  72. Willy


    You are aware that Christianity is in steep decline in America? I’ve tried reminding religious wingnuts about the story of Francoist Spain, that once proud inquisator/conquistador nation with all the awesome cathedrals. After 40 years of Franco’s best efforts, it’s just another secular center-left country with few citizens left placing Jesus at the forefront of their lives.

    My religious opinions are obviously highly biased. I’m descended from a successful protestant minister, whose own children and grandchildren numbering in the many dozens, mostly chose a life of Christian Service. As a kid in the bible belt midwest I remember the non-partisan happy times of my childhood, back when America Was Great and everybody around me was a salt-of-the-earth Christian. The only hard core partisan I knew was my disagreeable cousin who hated Republicans because they defeated her beloved Hubert.

    Today she’s a staunch neoliberal, a known expert at supply chain offshoring. My closest minister uncle soldiers on depressed over the bizarre Randian selfishness of his small town fellows and all the tent towns in his local city. My sister and husband, mindless Reagan/Bush/Trumpians, keep trying to get my minister father to join the cult. They continuously try to make him take the red pill (watch Fox News), but fortunately, it puts him to sleep. Maybe I’ll call that a miracle, such as it is.

  73. Hugh

    Pence tonight: Only 200,000 dead. And hiding behind Fauci. No responsibility taking but we knew that.

  74. Plague Species

    Maybe Amy Conan O’Brien spread it to everyone at the Rose Garden event. Everyone except Pence. Of course, the “scientists” will say she couldn’t possibly be contagious any longer but do they really know? This virus is highly novel, afterall. They still don’t understand it fully. Not by a long shot. It’s still largely a mystery to the scientific community, hence it’s dubious an EFFECTIVE vaccine will be developed any time soon.

    That fly on Pence proves what I’ve suspected all along. He’s a rotting cadaver that walks and talks. Like many Trumpians, he’s the Walking Dead. That fly was just doing what flies do. Lay their eggs on unpreserved dead people so their maggot progeny can feast on the rotting flesh. Pence hasn’t gotten COVFEFE-19 because he’s already dead. The fly in the ointment proves it.

    Trump and his team refuse to allow a forensic audit of the claims they have contracted COVFEFE-19. Until I see that proof, the possibility this is a ruse is still in play. Trump’s behavior certainly lends credence to the theory. Is it insane? Hell yes, it’s insane, but then it’s Fat Donny Trump we’re talking about. He’s insane and nothing is too bizarre and insane for him.

  75. in eslintrc.js, switch out Prettier to es-beautifier

    Heard about 15 minutes of the debate. Pence was obviously evasive, particularly when asked about the 200,000 deaths. (Supposedly, Harris was also evasive throughout the debate, on the whole). Nothing about co-morbidities. Nothing about the US “Sweden states”. Nothing about the limitations of the Federal government. Nothing about the “Cuomo effect”. Nothing about differentiating US policy decisions from the more dire messaging that Trump, especially, supposedly should have put out.(Some of this criticism is appropriate, some not.) Nothing about the “casedemic” – i.e., cases vs. plunging fatalities. Nothing about botched tests, which were failures of the bureaucracy, not the Administration (AFAIK; Democrats have not tried to pin this on Trump, so I assume this confirms that there’s no blame on the Administration for this). Nothing about Sweden’s per capita death rate now less than the US’s.

    Meanwhile, back on the ranch, CommonDreams quotes the NY Times:

    “According to Times reporting, “As part of their behind-the-scenes effort, White House officials also tried to circumvent the CDC in a search for alternate data showing that the pandemic was weakening and posed little danger to children… The effort included Dr. Deborah L. Birx, the White House’s coronavirus response coordinator, and officials working for Vice President Mike Pence, who led the task force. It left officials at the CDC, long considered the world’s premier public health agency, alarmed at the degree of pressure from the White House.””

    Oh, wow. So the search for “alternate data”, the nature of which we can EASILY infer from studies around the world, is somehow evil. No, Virginia, as long as the data is not made up or tortured to give a misleading impression, it’s not evil. Unfortunately, the dodo-heads in the Administration apparently crave official approval/cover from the CDC and Fauci, even if Birx is on their side, on this issue. They should have readily gone to war against the CDC, and Fauci, on whatever issue they had legitimate positions on, and also gone to war against the unreal expectations of the public about “safety” being a binary consideration. Of course, there are always tradeoffs. The Administration is apparently too cowardly to also go to war against the irrationality and infantilism of the American public. (Of course, they would not refer to it as such.)

    I heard Joe Biden speak at a fundraiser that I helped a customer of mine cater, in Princeton, not too long after 911. He said something along these line, “The one thing I keep getting asked, by soccer moms all over the country, is “Is it safe? Are our children safe from terrorist attacks?”

    In spite of some dementia, Biden must surely recall what he needs to do to get the suburban Mom vote. If the Trump Administration thinks they can both overcome bureaucratic sabotage/dysfunction by the CDC, as well as the inevitable smearing by the media and Democrats, by working behind the scenes, they’ve obviously got it wrong. Both Pence and Trump are failing as politicians.

    From that same CommonDreams article:

    “[The] Trump White house pressured CDC to say schools could safely reopen, even though scientists disagreed with the data,” Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) tweeted. “Some of that data was included by the CDC. That’s our kids’ safety at risk. Disgusting.”

    I would call the Trump/Pence strategy cowardly and stupid, and ascribe “disgusting” to the likes of Jayapal. The only sort of exceptional intervention that the Federal government could have attempted, specific to schools, is to have provided massive funding for ventilation projects. I say this based on a petition, or report, by experts claiming aerosols are the primary vectors of transmission.* (Oldsters living with schoolchildren that need special protection are another matter, but they should have been provided for from the very beginning. On this score, there was/is failure across the board.) Trump could neither open nor close any schools (AFAIK). And they can’t make the CDC say anything, as much as they might want to.

    * this was mentioned by Denis Rancourt in his debate with an angry debunker who writes for Psychology Today. See “(FULL) Digi-Debates. The Face Mask Debate” on youtube.


    Jayapal is not the only disgusting player in this farce. Turns out DHHS doesn’t want Fauci’s coronavirus emails to see the light of day, at least before the election:

    “Judge Rejects HHS Effort to Stall Release of Fauci Emails Until After Election – Orders Initial Production this Month

    Judicial Watch
    October 1, 2020
    In an ongoing effort to understand the COVID crisis, Judicial Watch sued DHHS for Fauci emails in federal court to begin producing communications and other records of National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases Director Anthony Fauci and Deputy Director H. Clifford Lane about the World Health Organization (WHO), China, and the coronavirus. The FOIA lawsuit also seeks documents related to WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus and Dr. Bruce Aylward (WHO official who led the mission to China and was alleged to have been favored by their regime).

    They received an opinion from U.S. District Court Judge Dabney L. Friedrich on the FOIA request on September 22. The judge ordered DHHS to begin producing 300 pages of potentially responsive records per month beginning on October 21.

    In a September 21 court filing, HHS said the agency could begin producing 300 pages of responsive records to the Daily Caller News Foundation beginning on November 30, eight months after receiving the Daily Caller’s request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The total number of responsive records is approximately 4200, which would push off the full release of the records until at least 2022. HHS also alleged that Fauci must personally review each one of his emails before they are released.

    The judge’s order came in response to a FOIA suit Judicial Watch filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia on behalf of the Daily Caller News Foundation (Daily Caller News Foundation v. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (No. 1:20-cv-01149)).”

  76. Hugh

    So that Jayapal has the strong Medicare for All bill in the House is incidental to this screed, right? And if it isn’t Jayapal, we’ll start seeing the Martians getting blamed. Better paranoid conspiracies, please. The current ones are getting stale.

  77. @hugh

    What on earth does support for a medicare for all bill have to do with whether Jayapal is disgusting, for trying to game school reopening decisions by embracing ignorance, and deferring to an authority that still hasn’t discovered the easily correctable crime of vitamin D insufficiency in the US, particularly amongst blacks? (76% deficient, according to the Cooper Institute.)

    Do you think her support for Medicare for All absolves her of any and all hypocrisy and embrace of the dark side, when it comes to covid-19? That’d be as stupid as saying that Trump being out in front on shutting down air traffic from China, somehow magically absolves him of all guilt for every other aspect of the government response.


    As Atlas and Peterson explain,

    “The irony in such language is that children are safe at school already. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that of the first 68,998 U.S. deaths from COVID-19, only 12 have been in children under age 14 — less than 0.02 percent. Nor is coronavirus killing teenagers. At last count, the fatality total among children under 18 without an underlying condition is one; only ten of the 16,469 confirmed coronavirus deaths in New York City were among those under the age of 18. That’s similar to the fatality rate for those under 20 in France, estimated at 0.001 percent, and in Spain.

    The death of even one child is tragic, of course. Yet, it must be kept in mind that as many as 600 children in the United States died from seasonal influenza in 2017-18, according to CDC estimates, while the CDC’s estimate for COVID-19 fatalities number just 12. A just-released JAMA Pediatrics study flatly states: “Our data indicate that children are at far greater risk of critical illness from influenza than from COVID-19.” If the COVID-19 hazard sets the new standard for health safety, the country will need to close its schools each year from November until April to guard against influenza.”

    It looks like maybe the CDC started covering up how extremely non-fatal covid is for kids, after the overal death count exceeded 68,998. If this is correct, it would illustrate, all the more, how much the NY Times and Common Dreams are engaged in dishonest propaganda.

    While for oldsters, covid is more dangerous than flu, the opposite is true of children. I only found that out a few days ago, and I’ve spent WAY too much time on this.

    So why hasn’t the politically incompetent Trump Administration successfully broadcasted that to the American public? They’re obviously incompetent at truthful propaganda, communications, public relations, ….. It’s not just Trump.

  78. “I predict Trump will walk this back, and claim that he was just trying to pressure Pelosi.”

    Well, Newsweek put up a headline about 2 hours, ago:

    Stimulus Talks ‘Very Productive,’ Trump Says, Days After He Killed Them Off

  79. Hugh

    So does anyone think Presidential or Vice Presidential debates actually serve any worthwhile purpose? Lots of talking points. Lots of not answering questions or dominating the time with nothing to say. And if you are an undecided voter still, why? Not paying attention, brain dead, again why?

  80. Hugh

    metamars, you do realize that children do get Covid, some do die from it, and they are certainly able to transmit it to their teachers and parents?

    And Atlas is Trump’s current whack Covid spokesman. So let’s cite him as the new pseudo-authority. Whooboy.

  81. Zachary Smith

    Did Donald Trump Know He Was Symptomatic on Monday, September 28?

    A person must conclude the Trumpies knew something to have made such an alteration in their usual procedures.

    Now if I were paranoid, I might say the Orange Tweeter attended the first debate with the idea of taking out Biden. As we know, prolonged shouting is great at spreading the virus, and Trump did a LOT of that.

  82. @hugh

    I don’t know what your educational background is, but mine is physics and math. When you ask

    “you do realize that children do get Covid, SOME do die from it, and they are certainly able to transmit it to their teachers and parents?”

    that word SOME sticks out like a sore thumb. If I was asked to solve a problem in radioactive decay of a thorium isotope, of X percent in a thorium sample weighing Y gram, in T minutes, I would not answer “Holy Moses, SOME of the thorium went bye-bye. I’m sure we have less of it now then when we started. If thorium isotopes were children, each one that decayed would be a tragedy”.

    The teacher would want to know if I could figure out HOW MUCH. The quantitative question required a quantitative answer.

    The Trump Administration was trying to wrest data out of the CDC. That’s quantitative information. From what I’ve written, you should have been able to figure out that whatever quantitative SOME applies covid, the quantitative SOME for flu would be even more.

    Since teachers and parents are at risk of dying from flu they contracted from their children, do you seriously suggest we keep schools closed during flu season? I mean, you know it’s going to kill SOME child, somewhere. And SOME teacher, somewhere. And SOME parent, somewhere. If “SOME” is good enough for public policy, in hugh’s world, I assume it should apply equally to covid and flu.

    As for children serving as transmission vectors to parents and teachers, those are valid questions. I’ve already indicated oldsters (e.g. living with grandchildren) should have been considered, from the beginning. Of course, in a school scenario, some sort of calculation, based on actuarial and epidemiological data, should be attempted (in good faith).

    Where is that calculation? I don’t work for the CDC, nor the Trump Administration; nor do I have the right background for attempting such calculations. I don’t see Jayapal asking for those calculations, either.

    Fortunately, as of a few days ago, some epidemiologists have organized to present their vision of a rational opening plan. (Unfortunately, I’m not seeing a detailed decision tree presented, informed by the data. However, they state “A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals. “)

    I’m talking about “The Great Barrington Declaration”, currently signed by 4,819 Medical & Public Health Scientists and 9,084 Medical Practitioners. See

  83. different clue

    The Presidential and other office-seeker debates were useful when the League of Women Voters conducted them.

    The two parties and the media networks got tired of office-seekers being able to reach and inform voters without total Party and Network control and distortion. So they set up a fake “commission”
    to “create” a “new” platform for holding broadcastable debates. The debates we see now are exactly what the two parties and the media-industrial complex want them to be and co-conspired to make them.

    In this you tube age, where people can set up you tube channels, I would like to see the League of Women Voters create their own you tube channel and post their own good-old-traditional-style debates on it, letting all relevant officeholders show up. If enough people eventually started watching them, such people could get some information end-running around the two party media-industrial complex’s captive engineered fake debates.

  84. Hugh

    Good to know that kids’, parents’, and teachers’ lives can be dismissed like a radioactive thorium decay rate. Hey, only 210,000 dead. Look at world population and that’s not even a rounding error.

    People’s lives should matter, and not be seen as an inconvenience that we should be coming up with excuses to devalue and write off.

    Bottomline is that Covid is a serious health crisis and we should treat it as such.

  85. No, the bottom line is that you aren’t interested in rational health policy, which must needs be quantitative.

    Unlike the 4,819 Medical & Public Health Scientists and 9,084 Medical Practitioners who endorsed the Great Barrington Declaration.

    Just guessing, here, but I’d bet there’s not a single endorser who would 2nd your nutty idea that Trump is responsible for ALL American covid deaths.

    Coincidence? I think not.

  86. Willy

    How do we know the rest of the world didn’t conspire against the USA just to make us look bad?

    I know as a fact that Washington state, former Covid epicenter, which has hated Iowa since, well way back when, now has less reported covid cases with double the population. As Iowa.

    A “scientist” would want to lay out all the facts before coming to conclusions. Not me. I’d rather lay out all the obfuscations before coming to conspiracies. Booyah!

  87. Zachary Smith

    On October 4, in a wood-panelled room at an event hosted by a libertarian think tank, three scientists signed a document that they say offers an alternative way of responding to the Covid-19 pandemic. The signing of this so-called “Great Barrington Declaration” was greeted with clinking champagne glasses before the signatories jetted off to Washington DC on the invite of White House coronavirus advisor Scott Atlas.

    On down in the link is this:

    What is more interesting about the Great Barrington Declaration is what is missing. There is nothing about test and trace or mask-wearing – two interventions that we know are effective at stopping the spread of Covid-19 and don’t require any curtailing of our individual behaviour. It’s not clear why these are absent from this plan, but it might be because they would slow the spread of the virus, while the authors of the declaration generally advocate that slowing the spread upon less vulnerable populations is not necessary, as long as vulnerable people are shielded.

    The text of the Declaration uses the word “should” 13 times, but the authors couldn’t bring themselves to include masks. Everybody ought to have the Freedom to do what they damned well please, and to hell with the consequences if all those wonderful “should” things don’t work out. Libertarian Joe Three-Pack wants to go to the bar or the stadium when he is sick with Covid? He SHOULD stay home, but on the other hand this worthy gentleman will be increasing Herd Immunity by going out to party. Ain’t Freedom great!

  88. Zachary Smith

    Mitch McConnell Won’t Go to White House Due to Coronavirus Procedures

    I’m not surprised the chinless hypocrite and thief from Kentucky “thinks” this, but that he said it in public was surprising. Is it a case of “Trump is done, stick a fork in him”?

    Trump is doing incredible damage to the Republican party in general, and to McConnell’s prospects for next year in particular. He might be a tad bit bitter about the situation.

  89. different clue

    @Zachary Smith,

    You already know that lockdowning was not pursued in America with a New Zealandish thoroughness in order to get New Zealandish results. America was lockdowned just enough to ruin many lives and give the virus a chance to rest and relax in preparation for its next big surge once the partial lockdowns were lightened or lifted.

    An embittered desperate public will probably grasp at what those doctors you reference are offering if they hear about it enough. Suppose Joemala gets elected. How is Joemala going to convince a desperate embittered public to adopt a New Zealand/ Peoples’ China level of lockdown in return for the promise of utterly exterminating the virus from America? Because it would require a level of Day-After-Pearl-Harbor unanimous support from every natural person making up the public to even be ABLE to do a New Zealand/ Peoples’ China level of lockdown and total support in place for all lockdowned persons.

    Will the Joemalabeast be able to command that level of unanimous agreement if it even wins the election at all?

    As to Senaturtle McConnell . . . . if he loses his seat he will endure a period of shame and humiliation and better second-guess regrets about having decided to toast his marshmallows over a Trumpster fire. But he’ll get over it. He’ll land on his paws and make those big tubmans
    in the private aftermarket for ex-statesmen.

  90. Hugh

    If we just ignore that we are in a pandemic, it is surprising how many pandemic precautions become unnecessary. Problem solved!

  91. Plague Species

    As far as I’m concerned, Trump doesn’t have COVFEFE-19 and never did. His medical staff are obvious crooked liars so why not go all the way with a lie? Do The bigger the lie, the more people who will believe it‚ even your most ardent detractors.

  92. Zachary Smith

    How is Joemala going to convince a desperate embittered public to adopt a New Zealand/ Peoples’ China level of lockdown in return for the promise of utterly exterminating the virus from America?

    The virus is here to stay, and “exterminating” it is an unreasonable goal. I’m no fan of either Biden or Harris, and if I vote (Indiana!) I’ll write in somebody like Daffy Duck. That said, it’s difficult to see how Biden (or Harris) could do worse than Trump on the Covid issue.

    The DNC arranged for McConnell to have a worthless nobody to run against him, so I can hardly blame Kentuckians for rejecting her. (“Amy McGrath Is Airing A Pro-Trump Ad In A Swing State Media Market”)

    McConnell’s problem is that he will probably soon be Minority Leader.

    I won’t disagree with your remark Trump’s doctors are liars, but suggesting he doesn’t have Covid is waaaay too far out.

Powered by WordPress & Theme by Anders Norén