The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

The UK Referendum on Leaving the European Union

If Britain had adopted the Euro and the referendum was about leaving that, I’d be for it.

As it stands, I’m still for leaving, but only slightly.

The EU is brakes. It has significantly slowed down and limited the abominable policies of the Conservative party. As such, it has been good for the British.

But it is also brakes on a lot of what a real left-winger would want to do–especially in the arenas of trade, state ownership, and so on.

Corbyn wants to stay and argue for a more socially progressive Europe. But if he actually becomes Prime Minister, he will find Europe will act as a shackle on any power he has to implement his plans.

I’m generally in favor of sovereignty for nations under the current world regime.

However, and in short, the EU makes Conservatives better than they would be otherwise, and will make a real left-wing government worse than it would be otherwise.

Of course, what Corbyn or any other real left-winger will be really crippled by are all the so-called trade deals.

In general, institutions which were created or have evolved to serve neo-liberalism, even neo-liberalism with a social democratic face, like the EU, are not suited to actual left-wingism, even of the updated 60s variety favored by Corbyn.

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  1. Tom

    Comes just after FSA groups tweeted pictures of Stingers with Turkish and Saudi serials… One of which was used to shoot down a Syrian Jet two days ago.

    Turkey and Saudi just gave Obama the finger and Putin is backing down. Wow!

  2. Desaix

    Tom, so SA and Turkey handed Stingers to Al Quida and ISIS. This will work out well.

    You should post this over at Colonel Lang’s site and let the professionals respond to it.

  3. Tom


    Turkey and Saudi Arabia do not back IS and and Al-Qaeda and never have. They have backed the FSA and always have.

    All objective evidence shows this. No one ever backed IS, it built itself up from the ground up thanks to years of planning and recruiting during the US Occupation of Iraq and Assad’s Cooperation with them during said occupation. When Syria imploded they used carefully planted operatives that had been in the area for years and mobile troops with no local connections to seize power quickly.

  4. Dan Lynch

    If I were British or European I would want to get the hell out of the EU.

    But … Europe associates nationalism with war and internationalism with peace, while Americans associate nationalism with peace and internationalism with foreign wars.

    Even though the EU is a train wreck I’m not seeing a voluntary end to it because Europeans want to believe in it, or at least the current generation (who remember the world wars) believe in it.

  5. Dan, the support for the EU comes from those countries that were defeated in WW2. So they equate any solidarity with peace, even though it has of course been NATO that has secured that peace and not the EU. We in the UK know better, but unfortunately we are dealing with an emotional disposition not an intellectual argument.

    Nice to see Ian trying to make out a case for the EU on an anti-democratic basis though!

  6. Desaix

    Like I said Tom, you should post this stuff over at Col. Lang’s site and let the professionals comment. Is it o.k. with you if I post it for you? lol.

  7. Antoni Jaume

    “support for the EU comes from those countries that were defeated in WW2”

    That is most countries of Europe, it is rather a dumb notion. However Spain was not defeated then, and still is favourable to the EU.

    “We in the UK know better, but unfortunately we are dealing with an emotional disposition not an intellectual argument.”

    Your, UK, only intention is to abuse people. Every thing advocated by the ruling class of the UK is about to ensure workers and dependents are crushed into misery by the monied class.

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