The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Open Thread

Use comments to discuss topics unrelated to recent posts.


Yes, Virginia, Permafrost IS Going to Release Carbon and Methane


Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – June 27, 2021


  1. “Dr. Fauci Refused Trump Request to Pull Funding From Company Linked to Wuhan Lab… Pelosi Refuses to Allow Probe into Origins of China Virus” @ http://www.investmentwatchblog dot com

    One has to wonder if it’s possible that Trump knew about the EcoHealth front organization getting money from NIH, but NOT getting money from DOD.

    From my limited consumption of Fox News, it appears they are not interested in covering the DoD angle, even though their funding of EcoHealth exceeded that of NIH.

    Not impressive….

  2. Also unsaid in mainstream media*: the “L” word. I.e., Liability.

    Does not the US bear massive liability (at least in a moral sense) for covid, if it was, indeed, engineered in Wuhan? Whether or not the Chinese released it, deliberately?

    * AFAIK

  3. Z

    It looks like Status Que Joe’s shtick is that he “keeps his word” and his word on agreeing with the republicans on the infrastructure bill must be kept now. It’s a variation of the bs that Obama pulled: that there is something personally honorable about them selling out 99% of the U.S. populace. With Chi-town politician Obama the reasoning was that he was such a naive, nice guy and incapable of understanding how evil the republicans were. With Status Que Joe it’s his word that he only keeps to our rulers that matters instead of the promises that he continually breaks to the 99%ers.

    What a sack of sh*t. I hope his popularity plunges. There are few living politicians who have done more to create a country and world that is utterly hostile to young people than this jackass.


  4. NR

    I suggest you read this article about the infrastructure bill, Z:

  5. Ché Pasa

    Everybody understands that “Infrastructure” is kabuki, right? Same with “Voting Rights” and much of the rest of the Biden Agenda.

    Something is going on, for sure, but what we see is scripted and play-acted, and nothing much about it is unforeseen by the players.

    There must be furious activity going on behind the scenes. The question is to what object?

  6. Z

    I’ve read plenty about the infrastructure bipartisan agreement and looking at the politicians involved in the agreement and the commentary about it from people I respect, it looks like an overall loss because there is very little that will address climate change and there is a significant amount of privatization of public assets involved.

    The whole thing is hokey. Instead of trying to pass all this in one large bill with reconciliation the dems are supposedly trying to get the infrastructure done in a bipartisan fashion and then do the rest, which partially consists of social programs, via reconciliation. The underlying plan though IMO is to pass an infrastructure bill that the dancing partner parties’ sponsors approve of and then have enough dem senators balk at voting to prevent anything else via reconciliation so that we end up with only am infrastructure bill that is largely to the to the liking and benefit of the aforementioned “donor class” that Mr. Nothing Will Fundamentally Change will try to portray as a win because it was bipartisan and he’s uniter and all, don’t ya know.


  7. Gateway Pundit is carrying “Indian Bar Association Sues WHO for Lying About Ivermectin and Killing Indians — Will Fauci and CDC Be Next?”

    Of course, no mention of who stood next to Fauci, day after day, week after week. Feckless coward Donald Trump, who should have been humiliating Fauci until he was too ashamed to show his face, in the White House. (Unfortunately, it seems Trump had no legal authority to fire him.)

    I consider Gateway Pundit a mixed bag. Although they’re about 6 weeks late, compare that with Youtube censoring and demonetizing based on the mention of the work “ivermectin”….

    They’ve also censored one too many of my comments. I’ll be creating a sub-reddit of my censored posts, there. Donald Trump threw his supporters under the bus, including those put in solitary confinement for Jan 6 transgressions. Whether Gateway Pundit likes it, or not.

  8. different clue

    I read over at NaCap that a little hidden easter egg hidden in the infrastructure bill to benefit the Upper Classes has the buzz-name ” asset recycling”.

    What that means is . . . Yeltsinization. And what THAT means is . . . giving all our tax-funded physical assets to private value strippers to take money out of until they are run all the way into the ground. Except for those assets which the lucky rich recipients decide are more long-term profitable treated as a permanent tollbooth until forever. Charging the public to ride on the public’s own roads.

    The self-styled “progressive” democrats like to self-style themselves as “progressive”. Here is their constituents/voters’s chance to torture and terrorise them into defeating the infrastructure bill by voting no on it in a unified block. If the bill is allowed to pass with “progressive” permission ( not enough head-shot kill-shot no votes to head-shot kill-shot the bill, then the “progressives” are just Clintobamacrats after all.

    But that depends on if their constituents can torture and terrorise them into voting no to begin with. And if their constituents support the “progressives” out of racial loyalty, then the Yeltsinization of every single public asset in the U S is also on the heads of the “progressives'” constituents.

  9. Z

    There’s no real reason to sell public assets to private companies to generate money for the government when you have the king fiat currency and can create money via keystrokes on a computer.

    Of course, Wall Street is 100% for “asset recycling” which is why the bipartisan group of bought off senators are pushing for it and “Handjob Across the Aisle” Biden is eager to agree to it as a “compromise”.


  10. different clue

    No real reason to sell or give public property to private persons? Because of MMT ( Magical Monetary Thinking)? Maybe not, from the MMT theorists’ point of view.

    But the private piratizers and their government agents are not thinking from an MMT point of view. They are thinking of how to achieve the greatest ever privatisation of public wealth ever in the history of enclosureism.

    So the question will be answered . . . are the progressive officeholders as subhuman as the rest of the subhuman Democrat subhumans? If they are, they will vote with their fellow subhuman Democrat subhumans to give our public property to the Richie Rich class.

    (Richie Rich class? Richie Rich was a private-fortune-celebrating comic book character with his own run of comic books. Here is an image. )

  11. Z

    Oh, our rulers will conjure up an excuse to avoid doing what is best overall for the country and it’s called the def-i-cit.

    The deficit only comes into play after Wall Street gets bailed out. Before then, it’s irrelevant because the only way to rescue the economy is to rescue Wall Street supposedly.

    Which leads one to question: why is our economy structured such that we have to continually bail out Wall Street, the entity most responsible for its fragility and/or collapse, in order to “save” the economy?


  12. different clue

    The New Dealers re-structured the economy so it didn’t work that way any more.

    The anti-New Dealers spent decades plotting how to re-de-structure the economy so it would work that way . . . their way . . . . once again.

    They finally achieved their de-structuring when President Clinton, who is the favorite President of all the Clintard BlueAnons over at Riverdaughter’s “The Confluence” finally pushed through the allegedly ” Republican” anti-New Deal deforms. Thereby proving that the anti-New Deal conspiracy was upper class bipartisan, not just “Republican”.

  13. Ché Pasa

    The hazards and some of the benefits of global warming/climate change have been studied and understood well enough since the 1950s at the latest. Mitigation was determined not to be profitable enough to bother with. By the mid 1980s, when economic greed took the place of at least occasional public interest, we had, I believe, reached the inevitable tipping point, and our rulers washed their hands of the problem. In fact they saw it as an opportunity.

    The globe gets hotter, so what? It can’t seriously affect the People That Matter, and as everyone should know by now, the People Who Don’t Matter are way too numerous anyway, so there’s no real problem if they suffer the consequences. Which is certainly happening.

    We’ve been going through an experiment where some millions of People Who Don’t Matter have been eliminated over the course of a year or so. Mostly the old, the sick, poor, the brown and the black have been — in my view — deliberately sacrificed to the COVID primarily to “see what would happen.” Huh. Aside from the economic turmoil — which has seen the wealth of the wealthiest increase again and again — social unrest has been… controlled. Cities have not been burned down, contrary to the rantings of the right; the US government was not about to be overthrown, contrary to the hollerings of the other side of the aisle.

    Prior to COVID we saw lots of natural disasters and wars and famines and such that eliminated some millions of useless eaters, sent more millions of them on the run for their lives, again, largely to see what would happen. Ugly, yes. But nothing much changed in the comfort and safety of most of our living rooms. It was somebody else’s problem.

    Our rulers have decided that infrastructure and all the other Good Things that might be done and should have been done long ago aren’t worth the trouble, as we may have less than five years before the end stage of the climate and other catastrophes overwhelm us.

    Why bother?

  14. different clue

    @Che Pasa’,

    I am assuming that you suspect you have been consigned to the designated “people who don’t matter” class by the “people who matter”?

    If so, the next thing is to decide if you matter to yourself and to certain other “people who don’t matter”. And at the larger scale, how many of the designated ” people who don’t matter” will decide that they matter to eachother and themselves, and will therefor attempt to prolong their own and eachothers’ dignified survival at some acceptable level?

    ” Your mission, should you decide to accept, is to survive against all the best efforts of the people who want to prevent you from surviving”.

    I have mentioned the blog Rigorous Intuition 2.0 before. One of its categories of blogposts is about Katrina and is labeled Katrina. One of the articles in that category ( I forget which one) is that the FedGov ( the American Cabinet’s equivalent of the Russian FederationGov’s “Power Ministrie” in particular) engineered operation Drown NOLA on purpose and then engineered Operation Prevent Rescue on purpose to study how the mainly Black people of NOLA would respond to an “Operation Drown NOLA” and an “Operation Prevent Rescue”.

    Here’s the articles in that category. There aren’t all that many. If you have some leisure time, you might want to find which one describes ” Operation Drown NOLA/ Operation Prevent Rescue” as being a deliberate social science experiment run by elements of the DC FedRegime.
    The Ballad of Finis Shelnutt
    My baby needs a shepherd
    Category 911
    Drowning by Numbers
    Series of Dreams
    The Last Refuge
    New Orleans, Year Zero
    Army Times: “Troops begin combat operations in New Orleans”
    Because they can
    Ring Them Bells
    Helter Skelter
    President Death
    Catastrophic success
    Crash on the levee

  15. different clue

    And since none of those names copied as clickable links, here is a clickable link.

  16. Ché Pasa

    We can see all of the shocks to the system of the last couple of decades as experimental operations to assess what the jackanapes, rubes and rabble will take and to find out how many can be killed off at one go without raising too much ire among the People Who Don’t Matter or concern by the People Who Matter.

    We’re finding out it’s a lot.

    Oh, very many indeed.

    We can look at the various shocks to the system in the last twenty years or so as part of an ongoing stress test. Discovering strengths and weaknesses, forcing systems to and past the limits. See what fails, see what survives. Exploit weaknesses.

    We’ve seen that our political systems do not exist to serve the People but serve too often to harm or get rid of them one way or another.

    The uprisings in the US during the last year or so, while modest in scale (well…) made the point that harm is the plan and they want it to stop. It’s not stopping, tho. It’s accelerating.

    I’m suggesting that there may only be five (not fifty) years left before the multiplicity of catastrophes — including climate change and institutional/systems collapse — becomes overwhelming.

    Then what?

    What did our ancestors do when they systems and cultures they’d lived under fell to pieces?

    Many perished. Some survived (in some cases, none). Those who survived picked through the rubble and went on, one way or another, often rebuilding something resembling what had gone before.

    In our case, the rich have long made a practice of insulating and protecting themselves from the rabble and from the consequences of their actions and depredations. They are for the most part ready for whatever may come and they damn well intend to come out on the other side on top. Don’t fool yourselves into thinking they are vulnerable and will be subject to severe punishment. They aren’t and they won’t be.

    90% or more of them will be just fine (barring collision with the Giant Asteroid.) 90% or more of “us” not so much.

    They will fight among themselves, however, which will in time eliminate the most of them — long after most of us are gone.

    Then the remainder, whatever it may be, both of People Who Matter and those who Don’t, will make more or less peace and pick through the rubble to start again.

  17. bruce wilder

    The comedy classic, Kingsman: The Secret Service, enacts the fantasies of a council flat London chav. It ends with his two supreme fantasies, one of which is a large number of posh heads exploding.

  18. Temporarily Sane

    Why does Naked Capitalism silently memory hole some contributors’ comments with no warning?

    A few months ago I noticed all of my comments (which are generally on the mild side) were being sent to moderation before showing up in the forum. A bit annoying but whatever, not a big deal.

    But last week I found out some of my comments never show up at all. At first I thought it was a software glitch or human error but it happened a few times and when I posted a comment asking what was going on, it never appeared either. I tried asking again today with the same result, so I can only conclude this is deliberate on NC’s part.

    What a disappointment. I had a lot of respect for that site despite their pretensions of grandeur and Yves’ authoritarian hissy fits.

    There are regular commentators there whose posts are much more caustic and confrontational than mine but their comments seem to make it through moderation no problem.

    It just seems so arbitrary and, well, rude. I get it, it’s a private website and they can do what they want. But at least have the courtesy to tell me why you decided to effectively soft-censor me.

    I even gave them money. But I didn’t join in the performative ass kissing rituals that are popular over there. Some of my posts were longish but Amfortas’ lengthy rambles and the mind numbingly repetitive screeds posted by some of the regulars are halal so I don’t know…

    The fact that they did this on the down-low is what really irks me.

    Anyway, I thought I’d post this here as some of you are more familiar with NC’s quirks than I am and can maybe help me shed some light on this. Thanks very much in advance.

  19. different clue

    Well, they banned me years ago without any warning and unless they invite me back, I assume I remain banned. I could “ask”, but I have my pride.

    So I don’t know nowadays. I continue reading there because they have hi-valu material, which fact Tony Wikrent testifies to by including some of it in his Weekly Roundup.

  20. Bernalkid

    Hi Temporarily Sane, I think your comments are often spot on. Not an apologist for the NC site, but it is one of the better ones around. In my experience if you use different computers you may get mod. The link thing is notorious and not uncommon on other sites. Longer posts seem to get bounced more than shorter. That said, some of the posters drone on enraptured by their marvelous intellects, and also seem to be favored. Comments there seem to be in a lower quality phase lately in my opinion. May be tending towards Atriotization unfortunately.

  21. Ian Welsh

    You were put “on moderation” — all your comments go thru moderation. If they don’t like a comment, it doesn’t go thru. Anyway, it’s standard practice: it’s actually built into many platforms. The question of alerting the commenter to a comment that’s not let thru at all is another matter: I don’t always, it sort of depends. Sometimes it seems kind of obvious (ad-homs–racism/sexism–violence– ad-homs against the author) and w/some people the conversation is pointless. I told one long term (now departed) commenter that they were just getting occasionally caught in spam software (see below) and they never believed me, after like 5 times. “Why are you censoring me!?” — I’m not, and if I didn’t use anti-spam software the place would be 90% spam comments.

    Just because a comment doesn’t go thru immediately, however doesn’t mean you’re on moderation, automatic spam checkers flag comments where they aren’t sure and hold them for moderation, and yeah, a lot of links will get you into moderation on most sites.

    Naked Capitalism has some serious intellectual commitments, in particular to MMT, and generally won’t tolerate too much criticism of such things.

  22. Astrid

    Temporarily Sane,

    I always like your comments and will miss them if they go away. I think Yves have mentioned that one of her posting rules is you don’t post asking why you’re in moderation. If you really are concerned and want to continue posting, a nicely written short email asking if there are specific concerns about why your posting don’t make it through moderation might work. But given that Yves is currently stressed by physical therapy and caring for her hospitalized mom, now might be a bad time to ask.

    The bulk of the moderation is also handled by Jules, who seems like a nice person but might feel compelled to follow the complex and rather incoherent guidance that Yves laid out. I think that’s why she lets through the self indulgent and mindless drivel (there are definitely people that I autoscroll over because I know exactly what their going to say, for the hundredth time, and it wasn’t interesting or original the first time they said it) while more substantive and fact based comments get moderated.

    Yves is at heart a Reagan era liberal. She thinks the 70s and 80s were largely just fine and the problem is that we lost our way. A good chunk of her readership and contributors are considerably more left, or at least more open minded, than the framework that Yves locked herself into. Her latest hissy fit about Jimmy Dore is bizarre given that her favorite economists are pretty well aligned to Jimmy Dore. Still, there are 10-15 regular commenters who seem genuinely brilliant and knowledgeable, and I seek out their comments even if I don’t always agree with them. And there really isn’t much alternatives to Yves in the current media/political landscape.

  23. Temporarily Sane

    Thanks for the input Ian, Astrid and Bernalkid. Much appreciated.

    Just to clarify, I don’t mind my comments getting held up in the moderation queue but when, from one day to the next, most of them never make it out of moderation I do wonder what’s going on.

    Yves usually has no problem pointedly telling commenters who break NC’s rules where they went astray. I guess I assumed if there was an issue with my posting I would learn about it that way.

    But as Ian said, it could be the spam filter software flagging, for whatever reason, my email or IP address and randomly vaporizing my posts. I hadn’t considered that before.

    I think I’ll just take a break from posting for a while and then see what happens.

    Thanks again for the info and the kind words!

  24. nihil obstet

    I appreciate the explanation of NC’s moderation as well. After a disagreement with Yves who had one of her hissy fits, I seemed to be banned. Every now and then there’s something I want to reply to and I comment, but the comment either stays in moderation for a couple of days or disappears altogether.

  25. Astrid

    Interesting. About 1/3 of my relatively few NC comments are flagged by moderation, but they are typically released within 24 hours. It seems like maybe Jules is doing a first scrub but leaves the “harder” cases for Yves to handle.

    Honestly, even if Yves released most of the long moderated comments, it constitutes a soft ban since very few people will get to see it and there’s no chance to interact with others as the discussions move on. This is very disappointing behavior, particularly as Yves, as shown most recently in the 6/27 thread, is siding with drivelers while ignoring substantive comments by people with actual knowledge about their fields.

    Perhaps at some point, we should probably all move onto a subreddit (I know this gets into issues of corporate control and cancellation, but…) to discuss articles in the left proximate sphere, away from good will of personalities.

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