NASA’s civil servant workforce has varied in size over the years, peaking during the Apollo program. During the 1990s, the Clinton administration reduced the workforce by 25% over five years, a process that some claim laid the groundwork for the shuttle Columbia disaster. This budget proposes to slash NASA’s workforce by nearly 1/3 in a single year via involuntary layoffs, resulting in the agency’s smallest workforce since fiscal year 1960, before NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, Johnson Space Center, and Stennis Space Center even existed.
In pretty pictures:
No. SpaceX doesn’t make up for this. China does both, massive public spending and multiple space launch companies.
Space-Based Solar Power (SBSP or SSP), the concept of gathering solar power in space using solar power satellites (SPS) to send it back to Earth, may sound like science fiction, but it is getting closer to reality.
China plans to build a 1km-wide solar array in the geostationary orbit about 36,000km above Earth.
At this distance from atmospheric interferences such as day-night cycles and changing weather, the array will constantly gather solar energy, anticipated to surpass terrestrial photovoltaic systems by more than tenfold in efficiency.
Once collected, this energy will be transformed into microwaves and transmitted to a ground-based collector station.
Colloquially known as a powersat, this was suggested by O’Neill back in the 70s. It could have been done with tech that within reach in about a decade, but, of course, America did no such thing. The space shuttle cost way too much to launch, funding had dried up to do things better and cheaper and space was no longer a priority.
China’s following O’Neill’s playbook, weirdly enough. They’re doing what the US decided not to do. To put it bluntly, if humanity has a future in space, it will be Chinese, not American. This isn’t primarily about colonization, though some people will live in space for a time, it is about putting manufacturing, refining and mining into space so we can re-wild the Earth, and avoid the resource trap.
It’s not a sure thing, by any means, but given that Earth is limited and space is much less limited, it’s the only way out of the limited resource trap. China either succeeds (and it’s them or no one, because there is a ticking clock) or we face inevitable civilization collapse. Once that occurs, having already mined all the easily accessible resources, there is unlikely to be a second chance at a future in space, or even a particularly high tech society.
Anyway, as usual, the future happens in China, and America has given up. AI is bullshit, even if it works, American capitalists want it so they can put a third of the workforce out of work. Meanwhile China builds civilian robots, automates entire factories and ports, has flying cars and drones galore and is actually working towards a real future in space.
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Feral Finster
The british said much the same about germany on the eve of WWI. British strategy was simple – rather than try to win by outcompeting germany, far cheaper and easier to simply smash germany up, while sitting back behind the North Sea.
Cynical, and it worked.
As a maritime power, expect the United States to use its rings of islands around China to do the same.
Ian Welsh
They’ll try. But Britain still had a larger fleet than Germany. The US’s fleet is smaller, though more tonnage, but even that won’t be true soon, plus China is ahead in both missiles and drones.
Nope. Won’t work. But they can try and get their asses kicked.
Feral Finster
All the US has to do is to hold its island chains and lob missiles in. The shipping is secondary, although the US also doesn’t actually have to approach China, just keep China bottled up, while China has to break out (again, this is similar to germany in WWI and WWII).
It will be massively wasteful and destructive. The rulers of the US could not care less, for they are full-blown Game Of Thrones sociopaths.
Ian Welsh
Won’t work. China has massive amphibious assault capacity, designed precisely for taking islands against opposition. It also has missiles, non nuclear, which can reach the US.
Plus, the Chinese drone, missile and navy forces are optimized for winning that specific war. The US won’t even be able to get supplies to those islands. Anything that tries will eat sufficient missiles and drones to overwhelm its defenses. If necessary, the Chinese can just throw enough missiles to exhaust a carrier task force group’s defenses.
No, sorry, it’s over. If the US tries to use military force against China, it will lose, and after the first month, it won’t even be close, because they can’t manufacture enough missiles or other weapons, especially w/o Chinese supplies and by the time they get that sorted out, China will be so far ahead even Americans won’t think they can win.
Americans just can’t understand this, can they? You’ve lost. It’s over. This is 99.9% probability. Financial powers never win war against industrial ones. Never.
Bill H.
I’d say we should not only cut NASA funding, we should do away with it altogether. NASA is not even trying to do anything that we did not do 70 years ago. It once put man on the Moon, and now it cannot even out an unmanned lander there. We’re simply doing the same things over and over again, cluttering near space with satellites of dubious value, and pretending that they are not mundane.
Feral Finster
Taking that as given, the US will not hesitate to go nuclear. Sucks for us, but our lives are a sacrifice that the rulers are prepared to make.
spud
here are the two dimwits that did this to us,
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-nov-08-op-40591-story.html
Clinton and NASA
L.A. Times Archives
Nov. 8, 1998 12 AM PT
* Every year of his presidency, Bill Clinton pursues radical budget slashing to take NASA apart. Amazingly, he finds time to photo-op the launch of the group he has fought so hard to de-fund (Oct. 30). Almost as amazing is that he had the time to do this in between his 102nd and 103rd fund-raisers of the year.
—————–
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Partnership_for_Reinventing_Government
During its five years, it catalyzed significant changes in the way the federal government operates, including the elimination of over 100 programs, the elimination of over 250,000 federal jobs, the consolidation of over 800 agencies, and the transfer of institutional knowledge to contractors. NPR introduced the use of performance measurements and customer satisfaction surveys, and encouraged the use of technology including the Internet. NPR is recognized as a success and had a lasting impact according to government officials who worked on or were influenced by it under the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations.[2][3]
————
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/08/elon-musk-spacex-nasa-obama-mars.html
Elon Musk Pretty Much Has a Monopoly on Space
Thanks, Obama.
———————
someofparts
Only English language media I still watch are YouTube videos of regular people doing interesting things – a couple homesteading on a beautiful island in Newfoundland or a cowgirl running a horse ranch in Colorado – kind of creating my own patched together version of what public television used to be. Interesting then that I am so much better informed than any of my cohort who still watch that nonsense. In fact, my blood pressure has even gone down – not that absence of US media feed is causal, but it probably helps.
Looked up a pronunciation guide for Mandarin and, good grief on a pogo stick, can’t even wrap my tiny little brain around that, much less the language itself. Spent most of my life thinking that cultivating a command of English was a good thing and now even that feels like I’ve been cheated. English is like a bloodstream infected with tuberculosis, spreading disease wherever it flows.
someofparts
spud – I wish I could be in the room to watch your reaction when some blue anon fool explains that once we get rid of Trump everything will be peachy keen again. Damn shame that we all know that people like that would rather set fire to their own ears before they would give anything you are saying a fair hearing.
elkern
Hey, doesn’t Ronnie Raygun deserve a share of the ‘credit’ for destroying NASA?
Ray Blaak
Powersats to save the world energy problem is a non starter: far too expensive to build and fragile to maintain. The gravity well is too deep, it will always be cheaper to just build solar arrays in the desert somewhere.
It will also literally cook the Earth if they are sending in non-trivial amounts of energy.
Manufacturing in space is a non starter: again far too expensive to send raw materials up and finished products down. Far too difficult to work in the raw vacuum and radiation environment of space.
Mining the asteroids? Maybe if you are trying to build a colony up there as well. Otherwise too difficult, too dangerous (hurling tons of rocks or even iron bars back down to earth?), too economically disruptive (a whole asteroid of gold would nicely distort and devalue it).
The book “A City on Mars” by Kelly and Zach Weinersmith gives a nice debunking of the fantasies of living and working in space. I am a space fan, but it is a much much harder problem than people tend to realize.
The Heretic
To be fair… the Americans can interdict the flow of resources out of the Middle East, Africa, Australia or South America to China, as long as they conduct operations far away from China coast… China ‘s surface fleet will have difficulty operating far from Naval bases, as they all operate on fuel. This means operating at least 2000 km away from any China coast, from friendly nation hosting Chinese bases with supply chain secure military base. Conversely, the USA will have difficulty recieving any goods from South Korea, Taiwan and Japan for the same reasons.
Assuming the USA does not alienate too many countries, its Naval bases will still be able operate with moderate safety if they are far enough a way from China.. , so it can still recieve supplies from Africa or South America. However, the American Navy and Its bases will be subject to harassment from Chinese Nuclear attack subs, Long Range Heavy Bombers or Drones carrying Cruise missiles (especially in light of Sattelite based reconnaissance)
It is a fight that we do not want to see
spud
someofparts, both my grown sons are mad at me. but i explain that i grew up under the new deal/fair deal/GATT/great society, even nixon had some progressiveness, even though i despised him.
but carter was a disaster, with alfred kahn and paul volker, talk about stupid! he cured me voting for democrats. then when i saw clinton speak i said oh,oh, i know history, and economic history, i said woodrew wilson all over again.
clinton out wilsoned wilson, the first fascist, and out reagan, reagan.
my kids simply cannot understand the depths that clinton drove america into, and we can’t recover, to much done to over come, and no time left to reverse course.
trump is merely the end game of free market economics, that clinton unleashed onto america.
what bill clinton did would have brought other countries to their knees in a few short years like in argentina, but we got the dollar, so its stretched the collapse out slowly.
but that stretch is coming to the end of the line. as been said here by IAN, its all over but the shooting and the witch trials.
Ian Welsh
Once the basics are built, you move to space mining, which means you don’t send raw materials up, other than some biologicals. Almost all travel will be one way — down.
Mark Pontin
Ian: ‘Once that occurs, having already mined all the easily accessible resources….’
Oh, I don’t know, Ian. There’ll always be plenty of methane.
Methane becoming all too accessible is my biggest worry, actually. You looked at what’s happening in Siberia the last half-dozen years?
Mark Level
Thanks to Spud and others for comments and links. One thing not mentioned here is if you zoom out, my original nickname for Mafia Don no longer applies. He’s Donnie Destructor:
Not just NASA, but the DHS, OSHA, Warren’s CPFB (which actually helped people who had money stolen by financial institutions get it back), the entire East Wing of the White House flattened like Gaza so he can build a gaudy, ugly “ballroom” “with tables and chairs” (wow!) he pointed out at a presser, emblazoned with his name and that of the other scummy oligarchs who funded it as bribes so their criminal enterprises will be supported by the feds . . .
And what about the long-term effects of his idiotic tariffs will have on numerous sectors of the economy? I’m no Reagan fan either, but he cancelled tariff talks with Canada based on an advertisement someone ran there on the disastrous outcome of tariff wars, see here for how R’s words were edited and shared– https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyz1e201r8o?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us
After “fierce trade wars (bolded) Then the worst happens: Markets shrink and collapse; businesses and industries shut down; and millions of people lose their jobs.” How dare they reference an R President who wasn’t totally insane, and obsessed with branding his rancid name on EVERY aspect of US Life, History and Unreality?
He gave the Economy-Chainsawing Millei the first part of his bailout (the 2nd payment will only be made if they put that insane Narcissist Clown back into office after he plunged 80% of the populace into poverty) and the Argentine government immediately used the funds to sell their soybeans to Asian countries at a discounted price, cutting out . . . US soybean producers!! Due Dissidence covered this recently, also the fact that no one in most of Asia will buy US beef, a shitty product loaded up with steroid, chlorine-washed etc., the Japanese buy Australian beef for half the price or less.
“Ukraine is not my war” until it is, now, and he’ll throw away billions more to achieve . . . nothing. I see that Meta had to cut thousands of jobs, other sectors are in free-fall. The India Times doesn’t like my Ad-blocker, but see here– https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/us-economy-recession-under-trump-the-hidden-recession-job-cuts-housing-freeze-and-fear-grip-us-economy-behind-the-ai-boom-and-surging-wall-street/articleshow/123171896.cms
Odds over 50% of a Recession in the near-term fueled by AI speculation (covered on IanWelsh.net), housing and other sectors falling apart, though the Speculative Stock Market is (of course) creating Bubble “wealth” that will disappear when the time comes.
https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/us-recession-2025-trump-tariffs-economic-slowdown-layoffs-inflation-impact-13870339.html
When Bush Jr. left office with 2 failed wars and a Bubble-induced Recession generated to award the criminals who caused it and hurt millions of poor, dumb Normies, with 23% approval, somebody wrote a good book about the sleazebags around him called The Wrecking Crew. It is the same set of Ayn Rand nutcases who dictate Destructo-Donnie’s and Millei’s Looting economies. Maybe “eating the seedcorn economics” is the best title for this kind of Neoliberalism on Crack Cocaine “thinking.”
They are going to crash nearly everything, either out of pure incompetence and ignorance, or deliberately, in the hopes of buying out everything at pennies on the dollar and creating 80% or more poverty rates for all the dumb suckers who voted then in, and the rest of us. What do they care?
Like Ian said, Get out if you can. We’ll have the human rights seen under the Pinochet Regime and the economy of Ukraine if they keep this shit up. And they know no better, nor do they care about possible revolt, they have the money and the guns. What happened to Russia after 1991 is what’s planned, total Oligarchy, unconcealed.
someofparts
Sorry to hear that about your sons spud. I’m so old I remember when there was no such thing as mass homelessness.
Landru
A reply to Bill H. Sorry NASA is far more than you think. Commercial space companies like the evil space X are in this for profit. How do I know NASA is our most valuable tool in space, I work with them to produce the highest performance sensors in the world. Yes, we and NASA did this. Currently I am working on a new sensor to detect water on the Moon and Mars, thank you NASA. Sure you can say who needs research and development we can Disney park space for wealthy people.
Make that mistake as Ian has written so well about , and we are ended.
Short sided thinking is winning, fully 1/3 of NASA staff will no longer work on the
most important future work we have to do as humans. As Genocide Don claims there should be no gov. workers. That has been the thought of the Duopoly for decades and decades. Just think what the world could have IF we in the u.s. lowercase intentional had not wasted 24 of the 38 Trillion in debt on senseless counterproductive WAR.
Shout out to my friend Feral who I disagree with now and then : )
Mark Level
Hey Landru– Any chance you’re the Landru that throws big donations Due Dissidence’s way? Just asking . . .
jrkrideau
Assuming the USA does not alienate too many countries,
Can anyone suggest a country that the USA has not seriously annoyed in the last 20 years, well Andorra excepted maybe.