The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

If Trump Is a Nazi

Okay, Trump has appointed Bannon his chief strategist. Bannon is a straight up white supremacist. This is bad.

I am hearing screams of Nazi and fascism. I am hearing a lot of such screams.

Let’s cut to the chase. If Trump is a Nazi he will do very bad things. Let’s get specific.

Will he be as bad as a fairly standard nasty dictator: Pinochet?

  • Train dogs to rape women? Rape as a policy (more than it already is in the US, which, umm, it is.)
  • Mass graves?
  • Death squads striking at night either with government sanction or with government looking aside (this is, actually, the first thing to look for. If you start seeing it, GET OUT. GET OUT NOW.) But it happens in plenty of governments which aren’t Nazi or fascist.

Will he be worse?

  • Actual concentration camps (remember, Obama already locks up illegals in camps for long periods without meaningful trial.)

I’ve heard people say things like “false flag attacks,” but those happen under non-fascist regimes.

If you think Trump is a Nazi, I sincerely encourage you to set up markers of Nazi (or fascist)-dom, so you can track the success of your prediction.

And I sincerely suggest you make one of them the red line where you flee the goddamn country. As a friend of mine wrote the other day, his grandmother, when she fled Hitler in the 30s, was mocked by her relatives. Every single one of them died under Hitler.

I don’t think Trump is Hitler, though he’s got some damn unpleasant people in his administration.

But if he is, you’d better know when you’re going to cut and run, or, alternatively, pick up a gun.

I note, also, that if he isn’t, all the people screaming are doing everyone a great disservice, because when the real thing comes, having been falsely warned before, they won’t believe it.

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Taking Care of Yourself in the Time of Trump


Living in the Truth or Dying in Lies


  1. Ché Pasa

    Nazi? No. I think that’s a real misreading of the way this is going.

    Nazis were a reaction to the defeat of Germany in WWI and the unfair treatment of Germany and the German people by the Allies. The catastrophe of the Great Depression and the complete failure of the ruling Socialists to deal with the multiplicity of afflictions forced on Germany by the Allies and the economic conditions of the time enabled Nazis to take power and rule. And they were enthusiastically welcomed. Until the catastrophe of WWII, they were beloved by most Germans, Austrians, Czechs, etc.

    Nothing like that has happened to or in the United States — yet.

    What I’ve been seeing in the Trump campaign and during the few days of the transition so far is an intent to restore White Supremacy as it was in Trump’s youth, his father’s day and prior to that in American history.

    Most white supremacists don’t consider themselves racist; all they’re doing is following Natural Law, the law that says white people, Anglo-Saxons, Nordics, etc. in particular, are inherently Superior and meant by Divine Will to rule over their inferiors. The inferiority of others — brown and black people, differently abled people, queers, trans and anyone else who doesn’t conform to the standards of white supremacy — is a proven case, without question in the view of most white supremacists, and this is the United States has operated for most of its history. All Trump and his loyalists want to do is return to those Glorious Days of Yesteryear. “Make America Great Again!” A greatness founded on White Supremacy.

    The catalyst for it was the election of a Negro to the Presidency — twice. Many may have seen it as a redemptive act, redemption for America’s twin Original Sins of black chattel slavery and Native American genocide, but many other Americans saw it as simply and completely wrong. I believe Trump was one of them. Americans can’t have a Negro in the highest office of the land. It’s inconceivable.

    Restoring White Supremacy is not the same as a Nazi takeover such as what happened in Ukraine. White Supremacy is, however, resurgent throughout Europe and the British Isles. And it’s coming back with a vengeance — and so far limited violence — in the US.

    If Trump and his loyalists are allowed to consolidate their rule, White Supremacy will be the American standard for generations, much as the twin false ideologies of neoliberalism and neoconservatism have been.

    The absence of empathy for the victims of White Supremacy and the blaming and scapegoating of Designated Others — be they Clintons or Democrats or liberals or people who hurt the feelings of white folks — is typical of a White Supremacist world view. The victims always deserve their punishment. Always.

  2. Duder

    When people make the Hitler comparison I think they are forgetting or ignorant of how relatively tame original fascism took form under Mussolini in Italy. In comparison to Nazism, original Italian fascism was basically equivalent to most repressive and authoritarian governments we see in the world today. Use of repressive state violence was mostly confined to suppressing and destroying political opponents (largely leftists) rather than targeted populations, like Hitler’s race policies.

  3. DMC

    Indeed. When the Italian Fascists were mad at you, some thugs came around and beat you up and forced you to drink large quantities of castor oil. Sometimes people died. When the Nazis were mad at you they killed all the males in your village before shipping the women and children off to camps and obliterating the village. Watch the Czech produced film “Anthropoid” about the assassination of Heydrich. That’s what happened to the villages were the assassins came from. People throw about invective loosely and as Ian says, how will you warn people when the genuine article comes around?

  4. MojaveWolf

    Pretty sure Trump isn’t a Nazi or anything close. I still fully expect him to be a huge improvement over HRC in foreign policy.

    I tried to look up what was causing all the stir with Bannon, and mostly found articles full of other people saying he sucked.

    Found one comment about “dykes from the Seven Sisters” and that is all so far; nothing to indicate racism or anti-semitism other than “he ran Breitbart”, which has some inarguably godawful headlines and apparently some awful commenters but this isn’t quite enough to convince me he’s any worse than a lot of other people.

    Does anyone know any of his policy positions or what he’s said that’s so awful?

    The known quantities Trump is considering disturb me more–Guliani is one of the better Republicans but Bolton is who people should really be freaking out about; actually wonder if his name came up as a second choice to help get Trump’s first choice through. Jamie Dimon is awful. etc.

    Still think we should wait and see before freaking out, even tho looks like Trump may live down to something approaching my worst case scenario for his domestic policy during his term as president, that is, something resembling what the harder right elements of the party establishment (i.e. Pence) were already like. Pence still scares me way more than Trump, and the more influence his type has the worse it will be. A Trump/Guliani led administration, otoh, isn’t going to be something I will look forward to, but I wasn’t looking forward to HRC either.

    Jury still out.

  5. Herman

    Would the Deep State, the business class and the Congressional Republicans allow Trump to really go that far, assuming he even wants to?

    My own sense is that Trump and the Republicans are going to try to expand the “Southernization” of the United States. This means:

    1. A continued campaign to destroy organized labor,

    2. The reduction of the workforce to helot status by eliminating workplace protections and making jobs more precarious ,

    3. Continued privatization of public services and programs to benefit well-connected companies,

    4. Restriction of voting rights for the poor via voter ID laws and other acts of voter suppression.

    5. Immigration reform to take the form of indentured servitude-style guest worker programs.


  6. peonista

    Nice comment by Che Pasa with one “small” quibble. Missing the white male’s “natural” supremacy over women and the anxiety it causes him is a real blind spot. Che Pasa sees Trump as a reaction to the black in the white house, not the woman Trump ran against. The biggest challenge to white men’s supremacy demographically is women. If women keep pushing for half the places at every table there are a lot of men who are going to lose their “god given” privilege.
    I live in the rural Midwest. Many of my friends are factory workers. Women have started to be CNC operators and welders instead of just assembly. It is not just the up-ending of the natural order of things but these jobs are the better paying factory jobs.
    The groups Che Pasa mentions, and the elephant in the room he left out (women) are not annoying white men by their presence, they are competing for working class white men for jobs and the prestige that goes with being the big bread winner.

  7. markfromireland

    He’s an authoritarian which puts him fair and square amongst the overwhelming majority of his fellow Americans. What he isn’t is a conformist which puts him in a tiny minority of his fellow Americans.

  8. Hugh

    Nazism and Stalinism were both totalitarian. If you want an excellent study of the two and how they differed from other repressive forms of government, I would direct you to the third part of Hannah Arendt’s Origins of Totalitarianism. In totalitarianism, incoherence in policy, rules, laws, repression, etc. and their application are means of maintaining state terror. Terror is the cornerstone of totalitarianism. The individual is isolated and atomized. All trust is destroyed. The individual is left not knowing from what direction destruction and betrayal will come, even if they follow all the rules, even if they are part of the apparatus of terror. This applies to everyone within the totalitarian system, except the maximal leader.

    Trump is incoherent in his policies and his view of power. He is not a totalitarian. He is a screwup who failed upwards. He has surrounded himself with a lot of Republican rejects, like Giuliani and Gingrich. Are they going to make lots of bad policy and decisions? Of course. But if we set aside the stylistics for a moment, in content is this so much different than Bush or Obama? Our system has been failing for 35-40 years now. Trump, indeed the whole ghastly mess of this “election”, just made it more apparent that our system’s breaking down and our society’s falling apart. Trump, Clinton, and Sanders were always part of the disease and never part of the cure. What we need is a new system and a new vision of society.

    Trump’s age and the baked-in disasters of his Administration pretty much guarantee that he will be a one term President. The next four years will be a waste of time, but crucially time we do not have. As I have written here so many times, we have until 2030 to get our act together as a society, put it on a sustainable basis, and have programs up and running dealing with the existential problems of overpopulation, climate change, resource exhaustion, species and habitat loss, and all the political and economic instability and violence these will cause worldwide. Trump’s view of the world, as contradictory as it is, like that of Clinton, Sanders and our elites in general, is based on a world that shortly will no longer exist. Trump may appear scary or irritating, but he isn’t even a burp or hiccup to what is coming. What he is is a waste of time.

  9. Ché Pasa


    Point taken. I actually have consciously avoided the “woman factor” for two reasons: far too many women voted for Trump and many Democrats and Independents shared Trump’s antipathy to Clinton specifically, though the reasons were sometimes different.

    An example of a woman who voted for Trump is my cousin in California. She’s very well off if not rich, and she takes her comfort and well-being for granted. She hasn’t suffered in the least under Democratic or Republican administrations. She and her husband have prospered significantly since they moved to their tight-white little gated community in the Sierra Foothills almost 40 years ago. She was a long time Democrat, switched to decline-to-state during the Clinton administration, and became a Republican soon after Obama was elected. You can see the thread here.

    She was so excited to be able to vote for Trump in the Republican primary and “stick it” to the “sell-out Republican establishment”. It was a tremendous relief. Then came the general election and she was practically salivating to vote for Trump to “stick it to that hateful hag.”

    Why? What was she so angry about? Well, a lot of things. Her husband’s business (he’s a contractor) was facing all kinds of “idiotic” regulations, and their income taxes were audited, and they had to come up with a payment of over $40,000 for taxes, penalties and interest. She blamed this directly on Obama. One of her kids who didn’t have health insurance through his work was paying through the nose for Obamacare. She blamed it on Obama and “those shitty Democrats.” She herself, and her husband, were on Medicare of course, with a private sector supplement, so they pay very little for health care — even though her husband has prostate cancer and has had a stroke and has needed several surgeries. As for Hillary, my cousin would go ballistic with hatred and contempt. Trump was the answer to her anger issues. And that seems to be the case with more than a few women who voted for him.

    And then there’s the white supremacy thing. She’s never not lived in almost exclusively white communities (she grew up in the ’50s in San Mateo, in what was then a restricted community) moved to her current home in the foothills in 1979. There are no non-whites in her area, and very few anywhere in Calaveras County (91% white. The Sierra Foothill counties of California are some of the whitest counties in the country.) She wouldn’t consider herself a racist, no, no, no, no, no! She loves all people! Except for the thugs and gangbangers and criminals and terrorists. You know… that sort of thing. She’s always polite to and regarding Ms Ché who is quite brown (Native American). It wouldn’t occur to her that she is a white supremacist, very nearly a white nationalist. And I for one would rather not burst her bubble. She’s my age, and we’re not going to be around all that much longer, are we?

    As for whether she subscribes to male dominance, it’s hard to say. Except for taking him to the doctors, she pretty much ignores her husband, and she takes every opportunity to go on adventures with her girlfriends.

    Just one example, but there are plenty more like her.

  10. Just asking

    How is rape a “policy” in the US?
    (A genuine question btw)

  11. Lisa

    markfromireland “He’s an authoritarian which puts him fair and square amongst the overwhelming majority of his fellow Americans.”

    Not really, studies show that about 25%-30% of Americans are Right Wing Authoritarians (RWAs) which is the technical term for such people. Predominantly religious (which tends to be both a cause and symptom). Disproportionally white (though there are RWAs in all genders, races and classes) possibly explained by their higher levels of religiosity.

    Religiosity of the extreme types, Catholicism, evangelical christianity, wahabbi sunni (etc) tends to generate it in far greater numbers for rather obvious reasons.

    I’ll add, something much of the research rarely comes to terms with, a third component homosocial beliefs (there is a tight nexus with some religious beliefs here) , which in men is often labelled as ‘toxic masculinity’, however women are just as prone to it with their version of ‘toxic femininity’ and their support, heck even self destructive encouragement, of that male version.

    The number of RWAs in any given group tend to rise when their group comes under perceived (it doesn’t have to be actual and very often isn’t ) threat or pressure, it is a sort of ‘default’ setting for many people when they are stressed.

    They are equal opportunity haters, in that they hate everyone not like themselves and wish for totalitarian actions be taken against them (by the Govt and groups).

    Very easily manipulated, led and lied too. Basically they will follow anyone that lets them express their hostility (always close to the surface) and have long been cannon fodder and useful idiots by many people and elites throughout time.

    See this for possibly some of the best research on them:

  12. Lisa

    Ché Pasa “she pretty much ignores her husband, and she takes every opportunity to go on adventures with her girlfriends”

    That called the homosocial model, very common especially amongst older people.

    Basically it is an apartheid between genders, with clear roles expected of them, their only common nexus is sex and children (and do they usually have screwed up ideas about sex). Promoted strongly by the Abrahamic religions (or as Gore Vidal called them ‘middle eastern tribal sky god believers’).

    They always react negatively to those who step out of those gender boundaries, so (for example) a homosocial woman reacts badly towards another woman who doesn’t conform to that, or a man either.

  13. Ché Pasa


    That actually sounds pretty close to her way. She grew up Catholic (but public school educated) and left the Church as so many of us do, drifted between no religion and some sort of New Age stuff, then became an Evangelical. I don’t get into it with her. She’s very judgmental about other women and is in the process of “cutting off” her liberal friends who don’t accept Trump as president.

  14. Tom

    Guliani took down Milken. If he becomes Attorney General and sticks it to White Collar Crooks lkie in his olden days, then he won’t be so bad. Especially if he goes after corrupt politicians taking bribes.

  15. V. Arnold

    Me thinks this blog is become unhinged.
    One thread there is an offer of solice; and the next a treatice on the Nazi Trump.
    Later will be greater…

  16. Lisa

    Ché Pasa: Oh Catholicism…perfect system for screwing up people’s heads, especially about gender and sexuality.

    People forget just how extreme a religion it is, it is good at covering itself under a weight load of ‘pretty’ language by its theologians, Jesuits and so on. But its core beliefs are as extreme as the worst evangelical Protestant church.

    But Govts and elites, especially post mass armies and industrialisation, strongly promoted the homosocial model in quite deliberate social engineering. It should be no surprise that the English were the masters of it, which enabled them to generate enough borderline but functioning sociopathic men to create and run the empire.

    Women had two roles in this model, the first obviously to generate babies, but the second the ‘carrot’ for men. The ‘deal’ made was that if you as a male conformed to this then you got a reward of a woman, where you’d (sort of) get sex, a domestic servant and with the price being paying for children (but never actually being much a part of the raising of course). Don’t conform and you were out of the running.

    But to achieve this societally you had to police sexuality vigorously, overcoming the natural human tendency to bonk anything that moves (or even doesn’t). Hence all the absurd sexual rules. Under Catholicism (for example) the only allowable orgasm for a male is in a vagina, marriage for men is restricted to only those men who have a functioning penis and can do that (yes really) .

    So you get a lot of men who are hostile towards women because they are sexually attracted to them. Hence the classic homosocial male slut shamming of women that do have sex with them and the incredible double standards they have. The very worst (and they are very dangerous to women) are those who actually get angry when sexually aroused by women, they then blame the woman for it and can often react with violence towards them.

    Women who are socialised into this are just as bad at the double standard and slut shaming as well and will (and often do) excuse the male for sexual attacks….and this is where it gets really bad …child sexual abuse.

    There is a tight nexus between the homosocial model, violence against women, rape and child sexual abuse.

  17. V. Arnold

    Oops; solace and treatise.

  18. Ian Welsh


    I don’t think Trump is a Nazi, but many people do, so I’m addressing it.

    Hey, maybe I’m wrong. It’s happened before.

    If so, there will be warning signs: real concrete actions, not speech.

  19. V. Arnold

    That’s not my nature; but I’m a hell of a lot more chilled than that pack of grown up babies in the U.S..
    They created that fucked up mess called the U.S.; so, let them live with their own creation…

  20. Peter


    You’ve written exactly what I was thinking and the media big and small is on a feeding frenzy of lies, rumors and nasty projections based on their earlier lies, rumors and projections. I doubt they can keep this up at this level of bile for long, The snowflake’s Blue Revolution seems to have fizzled out after the weekend demonstrations but the jobless Clinton quislings are sure to be funded for troublemaking at the inauguration.

  21. Lisa

    The reason I mention these is because they matter, they are at the core of many people’s unconsciously accepted beliefs. Most people don’t realise that in the greater historical terms how artificial our societies actually are and how many alternative models there have been.

    I have always been as interested in the ‘why’ and well as the ‘what’. And when you look into it in more detail you see just how contrived our attitudes to class, gender, sex and race really are.

    We are a species that bonked, or were bonked by, neanderthals for pete’s sake… There is nothing ”natural’ about our beliefs one little bit.

  22. Steve

    I think the Trump administration will coalesce into a similar ideology that has an iron grip on Russia right now. There will be some differences. The United States is not nearly as xenophobic and anti-feminist as Russia, so the Trump administration can take that agenda only so far.

    This is the first time in the United States that I have seen the accusation that protestors are being paid become widespread. But it’s a ubiquitous charge in Russia. The average Russian does not care about any protest largely because they cannot comprehend that anyone would protest for free. The U.S. will become a more cynical society, and that gives the power structure more space to do whatever they please and grab what they can. A cynical society does not protest, it does not protect whistleblowers, and it tacitly allows mind-bending corruption. Make the populace believe that they are powerless and ply them with cynicism, and you can run the country with few roadblocks.

    And about the charge of protestors as paid props, I will say that this is largely not true in the United States. And even if it were true, it’s mostly an irrelevant accusation. Everyone in politics is paid something, so it’s inconsistent to be selectively cynical about protestors (who are hopelessly idealistic themselves).

  23. EmilianoZ

    One thing that’s become fashionable to say lately at Naked Capitalism: “Personnel is policy”. Appointing a white supremacist (WS) at a position of power is an important action not mere speech.

    Trump is probably not a Nazi. He might not even be a WS. None of this matters. The real question is: will he appoint other WS at the levers of power? Will Bannon appoint other like-minded WS at important positions? Will those new appointees appoint other WS like themselves? If WS are disciplined and can play the long game, the future could be theirs.

    It matters a lot to have your own people at the levers of power. That’s how Trump stole the election. The electoral college system is not robust. It can be gamed by just gaming a handful of states. Trump won by winning a few states with razor thin margins. He won those states because the GOP governors helped him purge black, brown and yellow voters. This was has been documented by Greg Palast:

    Trump probably thinks he used the WS to get the presidency. WS probably think they used Trump to get a foothold on the levers of power.

    In the end it matters not whether Pandora was a Nazi or not. The only thing that matters is that she opened the box.

  24. S Brennan

    It’s in poor taste to insult our host, but do think this post had more than a skooch of troll in it. [And I am posting this in puckish manner…it is not serious criticism]

    BTW, I agree with Mark & Mojave points

  25. Peter


    It really doesn’t matter that individual demonstrators are not directly paid or professional demonstrators. The activists, organizers and NGO’s are funded and directed to a great extent by political forces such as Soros and the people who follow this lead are destroying any claim to their being grassroots movements. We have already seen how this operates with the Correct the Record trolls popping up here and elsewhere on blogs to try to push their message.

    These recent demonstrations initially seemed spontaneous but their message and even chants were too uniform and universal to not be somewhat centrally organized. The problem isn’t just that many of these people are useful idiots but that they are true believers willing to follow and believe in whatever they are being fed by these political forces. These beliefs range from the dangerous, calling for intervention to stop the constitutional transfer of power, to the ludicrous, impeach Trump. These are not rational or reasonable demands but they do resemble tactics used in Color Revolutions.

  26. different clue

    @Just asking,

    Prisoners in the American PrisonDustrial Complex are kept in conditions which foster extensive stronger-inmate-on-weaker-inmate rape. I believe these conditions are very carefully designed and maximized-for on purpose by the designers and overseers and enforcers of and within the PrisonDustrial Complex System. But that could just by my own tinfoil feeling.

  27. V. Arnold

    @ Steve
    November 15, 2016

    I barely know where to start; Russia is anti-feminist? Balderdash!
    And Russia can’t hold a candle to the U.S. for xenophobia. You’re out of your depth trying to expound on Russia; learn some Russian history before spouting that crap.

  28. markfromireland

    @ different clue November 16, 2016

    Unfortunately you are correct.

  29. different clue


    The first step towards changing a thing is knowing that thing exists . . . maybe.

    Step one might be getting people to understand: The bed you make for prisoners is the bed you lie in when you go to prison.

    If that can be gotten across then Step two is getting people to believe that in a Legalistic Authority society, anyone can go to prison for any artfully designed reason.

    Perhaps a dim understanding of those two things might be behind the state-by-state spread of the re-legalize marijuana movement.

    And the supergrowth of the supersized prison system was fast-forwarded by President Clinton with heartfelt support from his wife. No Eleanor Roosevelt she! One more reason among so many others to hate the vile scum filth which calls itself “the Clintons”.

  30. Lisa

    different clue : Exactly right, classic extreme homosocial conditioning and environment.

    Note homosocials are nearly always virulently anti-LGBTI and anti-feminine (hence anti women) in attitude.

    For an even better example see the English middle/upper class public (it is actually private and exclusive) boarding school system and its copiers, such as here in Australia.

    Military training, especially for officers, follow a similar model, permitted (heck encouraged) physical and emotional bullying leading to sexual abuse.
    A common pattern, you see a similar one with what is called ‘situational’ child sex abusers (different from paedophiles).

    It is designed to break people (especially males) into becoming borderline sociopaths, that will accept and work within strict hierarchical systems, will follow orders and do (when required) horrible things to others.

    An ancient model, but brought to near perfection by the English and copied elsewhere by many.

  31. Lisa:

    “Not really, studies show that about 25%-30% of Americans are Right Wing Authoritarians (RWAs) which is the technical term for such people. ”

    “The” technical term, you say? Quite RWAF of you, no?

    See, I just outdid you in authoritarian parroting of what some academic moron wrote – Altemeyer’s technical term is “right wing authoritarian follower”, RWAF.

    The value of his study can be shown by the fact that Altemeyer himself was an inveterate Obama cultist who, when I asked him about his own RWAF support for Obama and the Wall Street bailout, replied that “all the economists say we need to do this, so I believe them.” (Not a verbatim quote, but an accurate paraphrase. I can link my 2009 blog post about it if anyone likes.)

    He also insisted that by definition it wasn’t possible to be an RWAF as long as one was supporting Obama. IOW Altemeyer’s an authoritarian moron himself.

    So there’s the idiotic biases one needs to take into account when assessing his studies. He obviously applies these biases to everything he does.

  32. I posted that comment debunking Altemeyer as part of the necessary project of debunking ALL pro-system intellectuals. They’re all criminals, no exceptions. But I suppose everyone else will insist on retaining their favorites, because if one really applies Altemeyer’s definitions without his biases one finds that almost everyone these days is a “right wing authoritarian follower”.

  33. Lisa

    Altemeyer made it very clear that ‘right wing’ though it applied mostly in the US to right wing political followers ..also applied to authoritarian ‘left wing’ people as well, such as in the USSR. and some left wing organisations (such as Deep Green Resistance).

    It is a psychological mind set. Typically (but by no means exclusively) in western countries the authoritarian organisations that follow, pander or manipulate people like this are religious and/or conservative politically.

    it is the ‘appeal to authority’ combined with fear and hatred of ‘the other’ (whatever they are).

    In his book he uses RWA throughout as a shorthand term.

    Yes he also deals with those who (usually cynically) manipulate them, the ‘Social Dominators’ who find them very useful because they are so credulous when you push their buttons ..witness the pastor who just today blamed the New Zealand earthquake on gays…

    How did you score on the tests by the way?

  34. Lisa

    My hypothesis is that there are very close links between the homosocial model, how people are conditioned into it and the Authoritarian mind set.

    When you break people of their natural empathy, curiosity, imagination, caring, sense of fun, desire to connect with others, sensuality and sexuality…then you create people where bullying is natural, unfair violence against ‘the other’ normal, desire for the security of a ‘big daddy’ to tell them what to do and sex brings anger not peace or joy.

    I have said this before about the US’s culture of high violence/high bullying.

    You can see this right now with the ‘permission been given’ for people (mostly white men) to go out and attack those they hate ..and it is women..hate Muslims attack a Muslim women. Hate Asians..attack an Asian woman. Classic bullying behaviour where there is no such thing as a ‘fair fight’.

    Pick on a guy, pick someone small, hit him from behind or have him outnumbered.

    All those are all classic authoritarian behaviours, but the extra elements of ingrained racism and homosocial programming means the anger gets expressed disproportionally towards women….and non-white women especially.

  35. The problem is that you don’t actually know who is going to be a Nazi until the situation snowballs. So all pre-emptive anti-Nazi action can be taken as crying wolf. Trump is appointing one of the USAs worst Islamophobes to be his security advisor, someone who sees the “grayzone” the way that ISIS sees it. That is an early sign that his foreign policy is not likely to be less “killy” than “Killery”, but you never know how things might unfold behind closed doors. That cuts both ways.

  36. Also even the very hint that John Bolton could be anywhere near foreign policy (ie, one of the worst Bushy neocons) is a likewise terrible, no-good sign.

  37. Lisa

    Mandos Anyone (except a very very tiny minority) can be a ‘nazi’ as the famous Milgram experiments showed.

    Two things I learned along the way in life that changed me, the Holocaust (which was far, far worse than the the now standard ‘6 million Jews’ were murdered meme) and Milgram.

    The amount of people that will stand up, be counted, that will fight for ‘the other’ is so close to zero it is not funny.

    I, not to blow by horn too much but it is true, have been in Melbourne in the busiest train station at peak hour when a young girl was being attacked ( by another women no less) running screaming.. I stood up, put her behind me, and faced the attacker down ( I have done the same in other places too against other attackers usually male) …thousands of people no f**ing other one one did that.

    People are cowards.

  38. Ché Pasa

    Some observations on the protests:

    They’re continuing at a somewhat lower key than over the weekend. That’s likely to be the case up to the installation next January when it is all but certain that significant demonstrations will attempt to disrupt the festivities. Note: that was also the case during GWB’s inaugural parade in 2001. Some 60,000 raging malcontents let him know, personally and to his face, that he was not welcome in the office, not that the refuseniks succeeded in stopping the horror show to come. Generally they can’t. But they did stop his motorcade.

    The whole notion of Soros funding and a Color Revolution objective on behalf of Hillary is ludicrous and false. But it’s a convenient stick to beat the protesters with. The protests — at least the ones I’ve seen or followed — were sparked by anarchists (by no means are they Hillary supporters) and joined almost immediately by a wide cross section of people specifically targeted or who feel under threat by Trump and his loyalists. Some of those in the streets are Hillary voters/supporters. Of course. But it seems to me that the bulk of people who’ve taken to the streets are anti-Trump, not pro-Hillary. If a poll were taken, I’d bet 60% or more would say they don’t want Hillary in the White House either; they want the whole system changed and they want rule by a corrupt self-dealing elite to end. Trump is just the latest example in a long line of mountebanks and con artists sent to rule over us, and it’s time for it to stop. That’s my theory, but I’ll bet quite a few agree. Democratic and Republican operatives appear to be trying to use the protests to their own advantage (note: the same was attempted during Occupy). This will add to the chaotic nature of some of the actions, but I doubt either political party will be able to infiltrate and take over the protests.

    The notion that there were no protests until Trump was (s)elected is absurd. It’s a calumny in fact. There have been protests small and large all over the country throughout the Obama administration and long before that against the very sort of outrageous conduct and threats by Our Rulers that so many people are protesting now. Those who denounce the current protest have no historic memory at all — or they’re just lying. What they seem to be specifically whining about is that the current protests weren’t taking place during the campaign. True enough, the actions during the campaign weren’t like they are now, but guess what? Protesters organize and protest what they decide when they decide to do it. If it’s not what anyone else thinks should be protested, then it’s up to those who are dissatisfied to organize and protest what they want when they want. So where were those who think massive demonstrations should have been going on during the campaign? Not in the streets, that’s for sure.

    Will the protests succeed in stopping Trump? I doubt it. The political class and the media (including Hillary and Obama, btw) are lining up behind him, and I don’t see any strong movement within the shrinking middle class or much of the working class to interfere with the coming horror show prior to its beginning. Once under way, things might be different. We’ve been through this sort of thing before, too many times. At best the protests can serve to highlight some of the worst aspects of the coming regime and build communities of opposition. They can serve to
    shame the ruling clique. They can inspire non-cooperation. They can help to interfere with and destabilize efforts to impose unwanted and destructive policies.

    But they’re not going to put Hillary on the throne. That’s not their intent.

  39. Lisa:

    I don’t doubt if I took Altemeyer’s tests I’d score as a “left wing authoritarian leader” type by temperament. According to his definitions being “left wing” just means one opposes the status quo, no matter what it is, as some kind of malcontent. In other words, his metric is part of the standard bourgeois psychiatric “diagnosis” of moral opposition to organized crime.

    As you know if you read him, Altemeyer assumes without even bothering to argue the point that e.g. Marxism is evil, and that any decent person would be slandered by being associated with it.

    I noted your comment because you insensibly parroted Altemeyer’s definitions and theories as gospel, when in fact much of it is highly tendentious, and he personally is an idiot. But in spite of being unable to diagnose it in himself, he’s right that conformist authoritarianism is always stupid. Which is why I bother to comment against it in this case. I guess the irony of the case appeals to me.

  40. Mallam

    Mandos: you should take a bow for your continued hammering of the left not being ready if they found themselves in the situation Trump now finds himself. It’s clear that he can’t or won’t have the people needed to run and staff the government, exactly what you said of the left with respect to Greece. The government isn’t going to be staffed. Trump isn’t even reading his briefings.

  41. anonymous coward

    Anyone who believes Donald Trump is a Nazi should be making their plans to leave the United States, and begin acting on them without delay. Emigrating and renouncing US citizenship already takes time as well as money. Escape will soon become harder, then impossible. So I’m sure you understand you don’t have a moment to waste. That advice applies if you’re a citizen or legal resident of the US. If you are an illegal alien who thinks Trump is Hitler, you should already have your head down and be running already. Oh my God, run for your life, the Great Orange Hitler is right behind you!

    I take it then that anyone who really thinks Donald Trump is a Nazi is not proclaiming this belief from inside the United States. For if you really believed he was a Nazi, and you actually knew what a Nazi is, you would have enough sense to know that identifying yourself as a party enemy was tantamount to your suicide. They will not bother arresting you under formal charges – law courts will have enough to deal with. On the internet no one is anonymous, Nazis make enemies lists early on, using the best technology available to them as they go (eg, IBM punch cards in the 1940s; the NSA’s Bluffdale archives in this century) and they start crossing off names as soon as their rise to power allows them to get around to you.

    Come to think of it, with the handover of the US global surveillance net and drone assassination squadrons, there isn’t anyplace on Earth whence you could safely inveigh against der Orange Adolf – excepting maybe Russia or China, where of course universal human rights and civil liberties are upheld by the government and the underlying, indigenous political/cultural traditions as a sacred trust.

    I’m sure everyone concerned will be too busy now packing their bug-out bags and booking their transit on the underground railroad to reply to me, so I’ll just end with “Farewell!” I wish you all the best of luck in your travels. Don’t write home – that would only give your position away to the drone squads and would implicate any of your loved ones left behind.

  42. It would be funny if the rest of the administration was basically done by Obama holding Trump’s hand the whole time. Not likely, though, but funny to think.

  43. In tinfoil hat territory but maybe Trump is actually an Obamaist palace coup against the Clintons, LOL.

  44. realitychecker

    Re: Authoritarian mindsets

    This is an interesting topic, and one rarely addressed head-on.

    I would submit for consideration that we as a society have all become much too willing to use appeals to a supposed “authority” in lieu of critical reasoning on our own parts. This is more widespread than most realize, IMO.

    Because I am a lawyer by training, I naturally look to see how the legal process works. It is almost all by appeal to authority–what else is meant by the term “following precedent”? That is nothing more or less than a declaration that, “Some other guy said this at some time, therefore I must accept that as wisdom and blindly follow its dictates.” And yet, we can come up with countless examples where such thinking led to enforcement of rules and values that had already outlived their usefulness or merit at the point in time where they were cited and followed.

    Can this dynamic be seen as anything but the result of lazy thinking and a mass inability to do critical thinking and analysis for oneself? I think not. Has this dynamic become the be-all-end-all of most public dialogue these days?? I think so.

    Carter’s one great contribution, IMO, was his introduction of the concept of “zero-based budgeting,” which meant that every agency had to justify its budgetary demands with a fresh analysis before getting approval. I loved the thrust and power of that approach and mindset, and adopted way back then the personal principle of “zero-based reasoning,” meaning that if one cannot make an argument that makes sense in the present day circumstance, then there is no good reason to follow a policy just because it was followed in the past.

    It is a basic human weakness to adopt the thoughts of another rather than “having one’s own mind.” It is also antithetical to any concept of what a free society should look like. Democracy, and the very “marketplace of ideas” principle, requires for its functionality that the People can think and make choices for themselves. Do we believe in the Enlightenment as a step toward progress, or don’t we?

    I think that is the fundamental question we are now facing.

    Re Trump specifically: I voted for him because I will embrace anything that holds promise for breaking down the strangling system we live under now. And I did so with the knowledge that if I was mistaken, and Trump manages to merely perpetuate that system, then it will just bring us closer to the time when the populace will become angry enough to prosecute a real revolution, a la classic revolutionary theory. I think this thought process makes sense because, and only because, we find ourselves inarguably caught up in a system that must be replaced because it is so non-sensical and unjust on so many levels that it can no longer be supported by any decent thinking person.

    Now, if only we could come up with more thinking persons. Lazily citing others whose thought process may be fatally flawed is not the way to anything but grief and chaos and subjugation.

  45. Ron Showalter

    In addition to the evidence that the election was again stolen by Trump as noted by DC and myself there is the little contributing fact that one of the largest Democratic Party websites – – was hacked on election night by Trump goons and the site is still not up.

    The hack occurred early evening right when results were starting to come in.

    Gee, too bad the 100,000s of dedicated Democrats were deprived of a vehicle whereby to document and act upon electoral chicanery, huh?

    Probably due to Hillary or something and not the theft of another election by US fascists and Trump.


    Ok, mods, ready for my deletion.

  46. Re authoritarian mindsets:

    Is there any well-known figure who’s not a corporate, war-mongering shill one way or another? For example Noam Chomsky, whatever he may once have contributed, is by now nothing more than a Swartz-bashing Democrat shill who really just needs to be gone already. James Hansen is a nuke shill.

    I’ve become convinced that if it’s possible at all for humanity to assert itself, we will do so only through completely new ideas, organizations, people. These will be people no one ever heard of, who never “worked” anywhere, who didn’t “go to school with” anyone, etc…

  47. hvd


    As a lawyer and as someone frequently trumpeting “the rule of law” you show a remarkable lack of understanding of the purpose of following precedent.

    Despite this abject lack of understanding you are correct in noting that very few lawyers (not to mention Americans generally) have the tools to challenge bad authority or even, for that matter, to recognize it. Consequently we more and more see judgments made up out of whole cloth but consistent with ideology and not law.

  48. realitychecker

    @ hvd

    Well, I did get an “A” in my elective Jurisprudence course in law school, and I did work directly for high level appellate judges, so . . . 🙂

  49. realitychecker

    Just to clarify, since hvd has shown me that some can misunderstand better than others (as in, perhaps, the difference between a law school textbook presentation and a comment on a blog thread lol), I only used the legal arena as an EXAMPLE, in hopes that the reader would then automatically be taken by his/her own thoughts to consider how ubiquitous is the authority-referring dynamic above-described. (Even, occasionally, OMG!, on blog threads.) 🙂

  50. hvd

    I find it interesting that you resort to authority (your A and your service). Not sure if your emoji was meant to indicate irony.

    But the legal arena is a bad example as authority there has a very specific purpose, which is to assure that the same rules of law apply, as much as possible, across the board – that each judge doesn’t get to make it up on their own.

    However, I do agree with you about our all too great willingness to bend the knee to authority – well he has a degree from Harvard or she was a Yalie and so they must be correct, etc.

  51. Lisa

    Russ: “As you know if you read him, Altemeyer assumes without even bothering to argue the point that e.g. Marxism is evil,”

    In his book Marx is only mentioned 3 times.

    Page 10 “You could have left-wing authoritarian followers as well, who support a
    revolutionary leader who wants to overthrow the establishment. I knew a few in the
    1970s, Marxist university students who constantly spouted their chosen authorities,
    Lenin or Trotsky or Chairman Mao. ”
    “I’m sure one can find
    left-wing authoritarians here and there, but they hardly exist in sufficient numbers
    now to threaten democracy in North America. However I have found bucketfuls of
    right-wing authoritarians in nearly every sample I have drawn in Canada and the
    United States for the past three decades. So when I speak of “authoritarian followers”
    in this book I mean right-wing authoritarian followers, as identified by the RWA

    Page 50: “I’m not saying that the United States was the bad guy in the Cold War and the
    Soviet Union was the good guy. The people of Russia and other Communistcontrolled
    European countries made it clear how evil they thought the Marxist-
    Leninist-Stalinist dictatorships were. But in the context of this study, I think you can
    point out instances in which both sides invaded neighbors to control their international
    allegiance, lied to their own people and to the world, made disarmament proposals for
    public relations purposes on the world stage, and so on. And when their government
    did such things, the authoritarian followers in both countries tended to believe and
    support them more than others did. ”

    Page 68: “The drop [in Authoritarian scores] does not come from reading Marx in
    Political Science or from the philosophy prof who wears his atheism as a badge. These
    attempts at influence can be easily dismissed by the well-inoculated high RWA
    student. It probably comes more from the late night bull-sessions, where you have to
    defend your ideas, not just silently reject the prof’s”

    Not exactly matching what you claimed… As for “and he personally is an idiot” that’s for you to prove isn’t it. “I’d score as a “left wing authoritarian leader” type by temperament”, well you said it.

  52. Lisa:

    1. Anyone who supported the Wall Street bailout, which I’ll now assume includes you, is either monstrously stupid or else evil. Altemeyer supported it and said, and I quote:

    “Now as for TARP, I have some background in economics. I took two years of econ as an undergraduate business major, including a memorable semester of macroeconomic theory from an anti-Keynesian young turk. I also had a semester course in corporate finance. So I probably had some sort of a handle on the crisis that hit the American financial sector in the summer of 2008. I believed that the economy would plunge into a deep depression if the major banks failed and credit virtually disappeared. It was difficult to imagine where the dominoes would stop falling as one sector after another collapsed. And I haven’t heard anyone who has criticized TARP acknowledge what would have happened if the government had not stepped in.
    In the case of TARP, I’ve only heard of one economist who said the government should not step in. The experts seemed virtually unanimous, and what they said made sense to me. It was also true that the Bush administration, including the secretary of the treasury, and the Democratic nominee, Barrack Obama, and his economic advisers agreed TARP had to happen.”

    I will now assume you agree with this vileness.

    2. You say that scoring as a left-wing leader according to Altemeyer’s scale is a bad thing. Well, although I don’t agree with his metrics, I’ll happily step up to whatever measure the likes of Obama/Clinton/Bush cultists like he and you consider a bad thing. Indeed I’ll regard that as evidence that I’m on the right track.

    3. As for the Marx reference, it’s in his online book. I don’t have the reference immediately to hand and am not going to dig it up for the likes of you. But it went something like, “how would you feel if you were trying to carry out a proper legal consumerist demonstration and someone showed up quoting Marx and saying down with capitalism? That would unfairly smear your decently correct liberal position.” Again, not a verbatim quote, but my memory of the gist of it.

    I’m finished with establishment crooks and the kind of idiots who lick their boots. Anyone else?

  53. realitychecker

    @ hvd

    I was hoping for more careful readers.

  54. adrena

    @Ché Pasa

    It’s not wise to “consciously avoid the woman factor”. Rosjke Hasseldine explains:

    “Stepping outside of the designated box of what it means to be female in a patriarchal society has long been threatening, not only for the women who decide they must step out in order to be authentic, but also for the women around them”.

    Your cousin in California is managing her life the only way she knows how in a patriarchal society.

    None of the world’s problems will be solved without burying gender apartheid. “Ignoring the woman factor” is a sure recipe for continued disaster as all inequalities flow from misogyny.

  55. Steve

    @ V Arnold

    No need to lash out.

    Yes, the explicit ideology controlling Russia is anti-feminist and xenophobic. This explicit ideology is only tangentially related to what happens on the ground. Indeed, women are professionally more successful in Russia than in the USA. And Central Asian immigrants are among Putin’s biggest supporters. You can see this same sort of disconnect in Trump when he attacks a federal judge of Mexican heritage, and (I think sincerely) celebrates Blacks, Latinos, Gays or whatever minority group. Le Pen in France does the same thing.

    Things in Russia that are better than in the USA:

    Russia has mainstream news media that cater to a more intelligent audience than in the USA
    Gender relations in Russia are warmer than in the USA
    Russia is less segregated than the USA. Outside of a tiny elite, the rich and the poor live in proximity to each other in Russia. That is simply not the case in the USA.
    Russians are capable of self-organizing in groups, and Americans are comparatively incapable.

  56. Lisa

    Russ: “Anyone who supported the Wall Street bailout, which I’ll now assume includes you”

    1. Bahahaha ..Nope not in the slightest, not even one little bit … You cracked me up there, that was so funny. You know what they say about assumptions …..

    As for “In the case of TARP, I’ve only heard of one economist who said the government should not step in. ”
    You need to read more. Check Steve Keen or Michael Hudson as two shining examples.

    In fact in this very forum I put forward (a while back) an alternative scheme that I had proposed when the GFC hit, first in 2007 in the US as the sub-prime crisis then globally through the world’s financial system ..which totally froze up.

    The problem was never the $1.2 trillion in sub-prime mortgages it was the inverted pyramid of derivatives and ‘insurance’ based on that (CDS’s, CDO’s and all that). My idea was that the Govt simply buy all the actual mortgages, then freeze any new CDS/CDOs and let the whole thing unwind over time without failure.
    Then to stop foreclosures (and all the rest) cut the value to (say) 10% of the face value for the customers, so a $100,000 mortgage would become $10,000. This would have pumped a lot of money into the economic system, stopped all the foreclosures, stopped the meltdown by the CDS collapse and the ‘insurance’ calls on the CDOs. Later on lift taxes a little to pay it all off over (say) 10 years or so..
    Heck do it with the entire $3.5 trillion mortgage market if needed.

    it would still have been vastly cheaper than what was actually done (estimated $14+ trillion to date) and done wonders for the economy. The Govt bailed out the ‘gamblers’ (CDS’s) and ‘insurance’ holders (CDO’s) , not the actual mortgagees. The big boys got saved and the taxpayers, mortgagees and ordinary people got screwed.

    Then gut the banks and break them all up into simple deposit/lender organisations.

    2. So called left wing people can be as authoritarian as right wing people. It is the ‘appeal to authority’ that matters. I mentioned Deep Green Resistance as the classic example of an authoritarian ‘left’ organisation in the west.
    For actual data see: “Authoritarianism in the Former Soviet Union”

    3. I actually published (see above), everything he said that referred to Marx in his book, including page numbers. Please read what I posted.

  57. MojaveWolf

    Replies to various people who weren’t talking to me:

    @RonShowalter — Quite possibly the election was hacked. Let me please LOL at Hillary partisans who complain about cheating and disenfranchisement now, since they’ve proven they are a-ok with it when it benefits their candidate.

    But if you are concerned about election fraud and not just opposed to who won, please join with those of us who wish to go back to an actually verifiable system of vote-counting. From what I’ve read from people who know more about this than me, unless someone is really stupid about how they go about messing with the votes, tho, this will be nearly impossible to prove. That’s why we should go back to hand marked, handcounted paper ballots with observers at every step from collection to final count.

    I don’t care how much I might disagree with you on other things, I’m quite willing to be allies on this one.

    @SBrennan–(okay, you actually did mention me)–I too thought the “don’t cry wolf unless there’s actually a wolf” bit was the main point of the post, with the rest of it supposed to point to that (i.e. no likelihood Trump is going to be like any of the listed examples). (of all the people trying to make the case, Ted Rall has done it best, but I am unconvinced he will be much worse than what we’ve been getting for a long time).

    But for everyone who is extremely worried, I think this post suggests a more useful suggestion than wearing safety pins and posting you tube videos calling for an ambulance:
    If you need trigger warnings for a post on guns, this guy is funny as hell but he’s pretty conservative and most of you will find some of it offensive. I disagree w/most of his politics but his personality is more likeable than the no-platforming thought police glitter bomb crowd on our side of the aisle (disclaimer: to quote Treebeard, “I’m not entirely on anyone’s side because no one is entirely on my side”).

    @realitychecker: I would submit for consideration that we as a society have all become much too willing to use appeals to a supposed “authority” in lieu of critical reasoning on our own parts. This is more widespread than most realize, IMO. Gods yes.

    @Lisa –we disagree about many things, but with you on this:
    Anyone (except a very very tiny minority) can be a ‘nazi’ as the famous Milgram experiments showed.

    Sadly, most people really don’t realize how easy to manipulate they are, and they convince themselves they agree w/the will of the majority (or majority of impactful voices) because they don’t want to be left out. It’s prolly more us being herd animals than being cowards, but there’s plenty of cowardice too.

    The amount of people that will stand up, be counted, that will fight for ‘the other’ is so close to zero it is not funny.

    I hate and love my fellow humans at the same time, and I can’t argue that we’ve been a net positive for the universe as a species thus far, and I’m not particularly optimistic about the future, but it is a little better than almost zero on this. I think.

    @Hugh–we have until 2030 to get our act together as a society, put it on a sustainable basis, and have programs up and running dealing with the existential problems of overpopulation, climate change, resource exhaustion, species and habitat loss, and all the political and economic instability and violence these will cause worldwide. don’t know about exact dates–for all I know the dates are already past–but yup. This needs massive mobilization now. (I will disagree w/you about whether any politician that might run soon will handle this, but Trump shows no signs and neither did HRC or O, despite their occasional rhetoric)

  58. Lisa:

    1. Are you stupid or something? That’s a quote from Altemeyer himself.

    2. I already said I’m happy to be “authoritarian” from the point of view of authoritarians like you.

    3. And I repeat that Altemeyer made the crack about “Marxist” protesters which is not included among the quotes you gave. If you know him as well as you say then you know the quote.

  59. filafreshcrew

    @mandos Bolton is not a neocon. He is a nationalist who allied with neocons on Iraq. This is more proof that you know squat about politics. You’re such a joke.

  60. Lisa

    Russ: What part of ” I actually published (see above), everything he said that referred to Marx” are you struggling with?

    It is quite easy you know, open the document in Adobe (or similar) . All PDF viewers have this nifty function called ‘Find”. Activate it, type in “Marx” (without the quotation marks) then it will find every mention of the word “Marx”.

    Clever what you can do on computers these days……

    As for (1.) I can guarantee that Altemeyer had nothing to do with my ideas on the GFC whatsoever. In fact I hadn’t even read any of his stuff when the GFC hit 2007/2008.

    Altemeyer deals with psychology, other people deal with this thing called ‘economics’, which is a different discipline in case you haven’t heard of it. The single biggest influences on my ideas would be Keynes, Minsky and Steve Keen..who are economists not psychologists.

    In case you don’t know who they are and what they have done, there is thing on the internet called “Google”. Ask a friend on how to use it and look them up.

  61. Ché Pasa

    @ adrena

    Guess you took me to the woodshed! Good. I hope I’ll be able to do a bit better on the issue. But it’s good that women are more than capable of speaking up for themselves. You should hear what goes on in this house when Ms Ché lets loose.

    But it’s not only in the privacy of our own home. She’s close to and involved with a lot of Native American women and their male and female allies and they are self-organizing for mutual aid and protection on the one hand, and persistent push back against what is on the political and social agenda to put women back in “their place” on the other. We’ve seen, time and again, when women say “No! We’re not going backwards,” they often win the struggle.

  62. Hugh

    Bolton is a neocon. He was member of the Board of Directors of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), the seminal neocon org from 1998 to 2001, and was a signatory of the January 16, 1998 PNAC letter to Bill Clinton advocating the overthrow of Saddam Hussein by any means. This letter has always been taken as one of the definers of core neocon members.

    It is always interesting, in the age of the internet, that people still act like facts can be swept so far down the memory hole that no one will be able to find them or even remember they are there.

  63. True fact: A white guy I met at a gym told me that Abe Lincoln would regret the Civil War, if he could see what black people have manifested, nowadays.

    Another true fact: The largest neo-Nazi group in the US has 400 members – doubtless all of them white. (

    That is only 0.0001239 % of the estimated US population of 322,762,018 people, but hey! Now that ‘Trumpenfuhrer’ (as a cousin of mine seems compelled to call him) is in office, the sky’s the limit for their recruitment. They may have a problem with Trump’s Jewish in-laws, plus his own children that converted to Judaism, but that’s why they are doubtless recruiting a modern-day Josef Goebbels, even as we speak!

    Clearly, Trump was propelled into office via the combined strength of the neo-Nazis, that guy in the gym, plus 10’s of millions of other crypto-white-supremacists, who are not counter-demonstrating against the “Not my President” crew (much less beating the stuffing out of them) because they’ve been given the secret order to lay low, until Trumpenfuhrer is sworn into office, with a whole set of high quality Cross pens tucked away in his pocket. (Might as well sign those Nazi-like executive orders and Enabling Acts in style!)


    I hear that, once Trump corrals all the black untermensch back into inner-city ghettoes, he’s eventually going to ban cotton picking machinery, and force all black into slave labor camps in the countryside, to pick cotton by hand. Some will also pick tomatoes, so that Trump can expel the Mexican farm hands (if not just kill them), and the price of tomatoes (for white folks) will not even increase!

    There’s even rumors that Trump want to build ovens and Zyklon-B showers, to free us from the excess of blacks who aren’t needed to pick cotton or tomatoes.

    Oh, and don’t be fooled by his seemingly sympathetic comments towards Russia and Putin. That’s only to put the Ruskis off their guard. Ya know, a Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact redux.

    As soon as the US has rearmed itself fully, Trumpenfuhrer will unleash a hail of modern day, NUCLEARIZED V-2 rockets against the Soviet Union. Excuse me, I mean against the Russian Federation.

    Even Hillary will stand up and cheer!

  64. Oh me, oh my! It appears that I forgot to mention another key factor in Trumpenfuhrer’s ascension to power. The Westboro Baptist Church – whose members number in the 10’s (40, to be precise; see

    Like the Neo-Nazis, I’m sure the Westboro Baptist folks are also cranking up their recruitment machine.

    Indeed, I predict that they will have the same type of success as the neo-Nazis, in expanding their numbers.


  65. Lisa

    metamars: As with anything it is more complex on that. You really have a large group within society that have a mix of ‘right wing’ ideas, with lots of overlap. Then you have, within and outside them, the group (about 25% of the population) that have the psychological mindset of being ‘authoritarian’ who would support what they perceive as an ‘authoritarian’ leader in pretty much whatever they do.

    It varies from country to country and culture to culture who they are and who they belong too.

    Then there are the leaders of such organisations who may (or may not be) far more extreme that their membership. The classic example is the Catholic church, while many actual Catholics are moderate or left wing (especially on social issues) the leadership is hard core against contraception, abortion, pro the elimination of LGBTI people and so on and have sacrificed tens of millions to that belief (due to their opposition to condoms as a protection from AIDs) and if they had totally got their way it would have been hundreds of millions.

    Tactical and strategic alliances happen between them, for example said Catholic leaders align and work with extreme evangelical ‘christians’ and other extreme right wing politicians on such areas. There is naturally quid pro quo on that, the best example being a few years back the then head of the Australian Catholic Church (Cardinal Pell now being investigated over child sex abuse allegations) made a deal with the Govt over funding for Catholic schools, then came out publicly against climate change mirroring the Govt line (he equated believing in to be ‘paganism’, the CC and science have always had an uncomfortable relationship).

    Belief clusters and alliances means they tend to converge with each other. So by a few questions you can pretty much pick the majority of their positions, such as ask them on: the role of women in society, their views on women’s reproductive rights, LGBTI people. The answers to those, if negative, means that the majority of their other positions will probably be right wing as well and, if white, most likely racist too.

    Hostility to women (even by other women) is one of the key indicators of what their belief clusters are going to be like. That is not new by the way, research showed those links in the 1970s. By and large the more right wing (religious or not) they are, the more hostile to women they are as well and vice versa. In fact the ‘alt right’ have been moderately successful at ‘grooming’ young males into their ranks using hostility to women as a ‘hook’.

  66. Lisa

    Oh well that lasted for 5 mins:

    ” John Bolton, a top candidate to serve as President-elect Donald Trump’s secretary of state, is publicly calling for the U.S. to help overthrow the existing government in Iran.

    “The only long-term solution is regime change in Tehran,” the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations told SiriusXM’s Breitbart News Daily on Thursday morning. “The ayatollahs are the principal threat to international peace and security in the Middle East.””

    “While Trump has called the Iran nuclear agreement a “disaster” and the “worst deal ever negotiated,” he hasn’t urged overthrowing the regime of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as an alternative. At times during the campaign, Trump said he would rip up the nuclear accord, but more frequently, he made vague promises to “renegotiate” the terms of the deal and extract more concessions from Iran. He said he would “enforce it like you’ve never seen a contract enforced before.””

  67. realitychecker

    @ MojaveWolf

    Thank you, MW. You seem to have been the only one to take my point on that. Perspicacious as always. 🙂

  68. Ché Pasa


    Bolton off his meds again? Who’d a thunk?

  69. BlizzardOfOz


    You must be aware of the replication crisis in the social “sciences”. If you’re citing those kinds of studies, there’s nothing more substantial behind it than the academic left’s wish-list.

    But Adorno’s “Authoritarian Personality” (of which, as your 25% figure emphasizes, Hillary’s “basket of deplorables” is a rehash) was a deliberate fraud. Kevin MacDonald outlines this in his book The Culture of Critique. Adorno’s effort was part of a well-worn tradition among Jewish intellectuals to tar traditional gentile culture as pathological. Now, agree with the thesis as you may, its genesis was not empirical research but rather Jewish anti-gentile/anti-Christian bigotry.

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