So, the EU wants Greece to sign an even worse deal than the “no” referendum already rejected.
If Syriza accepts such a deal, Greece will stay in depression and, likely, that depression will get worse.
Let me be explicit: This sort of thing will not stand. If the moderate left-wing (not center-left, moderate-left) won’t do the job, then someone else will.
That will mean either the hard-right, or the hard-left. People who can credibly say: “When we say we will end austerity, we mean we will do anything it takes. Anything.”
You have all been warned, repeatedly. French Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron said it, so it’s been said by a “real person”:
“Let’s not re-enact the Treaty of Versailles.”
The hard-right is salivating over what is being done to Greece. LePen in France, the hard-right in Britain, and so on. They know that rage, anger, and hate is building as people are smashed in the face over and over again by neoliberal politics. They are thrilled by Cameron’s smash-mouth budget in England. They love the way the refugee crisis is being bungled.
They know how to use the fear, desperation, and rage. And they will use it. People will become so fed-up with having lousy lives and no hope for the future that they will turn to anyone who looks hard-assed enough to fix it and to break with current power structures, who will get (and deserve) the blame.
This is not a game; this is not consequence free. We are fulfilling all the necessary conditions for an age of war, famine, and revolt. Greece is only one domino, but be clear, it is both a crime and a mistake. No matter what happens, the consequences of all these stupid and cruel decisions will be harsh. They will be harsher if the hard-right are the ones who make the break.
Europe has a chance here to negotiate with people who still believe in the European project and who are essentially moderates (Syriza is hardly left-wing at all in historical context, sorry).
There will come a day when they will meet people, from either the Left or the Right, who have no interest in negotiating. Given an electorate willing to follow me, I can tell you that, even in 2010, I would have had only very brief negotiations with the EU if I ran Greece.
Today, people like me who are willing to break things to make a new world are in the minority.
Today is passing.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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Stirling Newberry
This is not about Greece, but about us and the things that are own higher-ups are doing to us. By us I mean those of us who chatter on blogs.
Stirling Newberry
Only I do not think you mean “Blair”
anonymouscoward
Syriza has shoulder the cross of responsibility, prepare to climb Mt. Purgatory, and crash their country out of the Euro. But looking on the bright side, in just 10 or 15 years there will be no Eurozone for Greeks of whatever party to feel “left out of”.
markfromireland
Surely you mean “when Syriza blinks”? George Osborne rather than Blair? I keep on saying that the current British Conservative Party under Cameron are far far more radical than they were under Thatcher or Major.
Otherwise I agree with pretty much everything here. I don’t see the hard left gaining much traction I think it’ll be the hard right.
mfi
Ian Welsh
Oops, meant Cameron, obviously, though it is hard to overstate just how much I loathe Blair. I would never compare Blair to a maggot, for example, because maggots are very useful to the world.
Gabriel
This NC post (and the talk embedded) have convinced me that Syriza doesn’t have a choice–the collapse of the payments mechanism will happen too son. Even the intra-Euro sabotage strategies I was pinning my hopes on would take too long to execute. Legally, what the ECB’s doing of course wildly illegal and challenges could be telling, but they’d take too long, and anyway EU authorities appear to have read their Schmitt and know that sovereign is he who decides on the exception (we’ve seen this with the ECB’s OMT).
Only reason I comment here is to highlight how key to the ECB->Germany power is the structure of payments, which I think will reinforce Russian and Chinese efforts to create a parallel payments/etc. structure. The real-world, supply-chain consequences of Greece’s losing access to the Euro payment/clearing systems are the really-existing equivalent to those (largely) fantastical claims Western air-force people are always making for strategic (or “effects based”) bombing. Governments will notice.
EmilianoZ
Greece is now in the situation of a soldier that is about to get killed if he doesn’t surrender. But if he surrenders, he knows the type of prison he’s gonna be thrown into and how to escape.
Greece has to acquiesce, play the obedient schoolboy and quietly prepare its exit say 3 years from now. A lot can happen in 3 years. Russia will be in better position to help. Their payment system will be mature by that time.
Ian Welsh
If Syriza surrenders they won’t be the next government of Greece.
Lisa
Yep…going to be lots of blood in lots of places.
The very tattered velvet glove is off now and the elites are not going to back down one little bit. This is it to the bitter end.
And yes it will be the populist right that leads the charge, the US and European left is totally useless and corrupt and has been for decades. To be a force in the future requires a completly new left being built from scratch,with none of the old left or the daft greens being allowed anywhere near it. A 20 year project at least.
And I always thought ‘Bliar’ was the correct spelling….. Always made more sense to me.
anonymouscoward
“If Syriza surrenders they won’t be the next government of Greece.”
Hell, they won’t even be a party. The various wings and factions of the Greek Left will likely separate, splinter and go through a break up that will make a married couple’s divorce look amicable by comparison.
That is, if they follow the pattern of past Left movements.
Sigh. Looks like we’re now going to see just how bad bad can get.
S Brennan
“If Syriza Blinks” or…
Syriza is how you say Quisling in Greek.
Perhaps they feared being “Ukrained”, if so, one can only hope Syriza fares worse in a pitchforks & torchlight parade for their betrayal of the Greek People.
The Nazis back in Berlin must be goosestepping and clicking their teutonic heels off. The Euro represents a 20-30% export subsidy to them, if they had to work with Deutschmarks, the margins of German manufactures would be reduced by approximately the same amount and we could kill the “tireless worker” myth. Anybody whose worked with Germans knows they drop their pencils at 1700…precisely…even when they come in 2 hours late.
I was planning on going back this fall in support the Greek economy…now…no.
k
I’ve suspected for a long time that the real driving force behind neoliberalism is Anglo nationalism.
Forcibly assimilate the heathens before resource depletion closes the window on planetary-scale empires.
Assimilation requires that it be possible to destroy anyone who insists on continuing to act native. Normally this involves using in turn military power –> juridical power –> economic power –> employer power. Employee protections must be removed or else the last step is effectively neutered. Where this system cannot work (e.g. where there is no wage earner economy to speak of) they send in the drones.
Mandos
In principle I agree that Grexit is the best option. However, I understand why they won’t do it. I am not convinced it will their downfall if they don’t. (Could be, but I don’t think certainty is warranted.)
Y’all of course are totally aware of how insane this all is, but here is Hugo Dixon, “passionate about freedom and responsibility”:
https://twitter.com/Hugodixon/status/619278569810825216
As he consistently has told us he thinks that creditors have behaved reasonably, he is now telling us that reasonable people think that more austerity is an effective way to compensate for economic damage “caused by [the] referendum”. The damage being caused by further ECB tightening, which is only natural and prudent…of course.
Mandos
Again, the Eastern European countries are another stalking horse here. They simply cannot understand why austerity is not what Greece precisely deserves.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/griechenland-krise-die-osteuropaeer-mucken-auf-a-1042711.html#utm_source=politik#utm_medium=medium#utm_campaign=plista&ref=plista
(In German, they usually translate OK in Google Translate.)
mike
Those Quisling Greeks!!!!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11730086/Greek-deal-in-sight-as-Germany-bows-to-huge-global-pressure-for-debt-relief.html
Ian Welsh
We’ll see. Enough for Tsipras to back and say he won, but I suspect it’s still going to be so terrible that they’ll soon realize he didn’t end austerity.
dsj
Syriza has blinked… package asked for is worse than what was voted down.
S Brennan
Mike; I read that blurb [I can’t call it an article], nothing new, bromides and implicit lies tightly wound around a misleading headline…I’ll file it under anglo-trash.
Pluto
Finally, the Telegraph reported the developing (and very lucrative) deals that the sovereign nation of Greece has made with both Russia and China. Odd, the way people are reacting….
Greece finally admits €2bn gas pipeline deal with Russia
_______________
Greece has admitted for the first time it is planning a €2bn gas pipeline with Russia.
The move is likely to worry the US, which has stepped up its involvement in Greece’s debt talks with international creditors over fears the cash-strapped country could drop out of the single currency and come under the influence of its Cold War rival.
Panayotis Lafazanis, Greece’s energy minister, said the move would be a key part of the country’s “multi-faceted” foreign policy and would create 20,000 jobs, the Financial Times reported.
Reports in April suggested Moscow was ready to provide advanced payment to Greece for the “Turkish Stream” pipeline project, which will transport 47bn cubic metres of Gazprom’s gas annualy from 2018.
::
Beijing has also sought to invest in Greece’s port infrastructure.
Mr Lafazanis, who heads up the Left Platform of Syriza, has hailed a new dawn in Greco-Russia relations and has invited the likes of state-sponsored Gazprom to drill for oil off the Greek coast.
______________
Some folks say the violent overthrow of of the democratically elected Greek government is now inevitable. Identical to Ukraine. Which strikes me as odd. The “Turkish Stream” was announced five or six months ago by Gazprom, after Bulgaria began sabotaging its construction when it was the former “South Stream.”
In any event, now Greece will control southwest Europe’s energy supply, and will enjoy considerable transit fees from the EU.
Seems like a happy outcome.
markfromireland
Meanwhile in South America The Guardian reports Unbridled capitalism is the ‘dung of the devil’, says Pope Francis. Actually he said rather more than that:
markfromireland
I’ll post immediately below a FT report which gives some detail of precisely how much dung the Greek government is now saying the Greek populace are going to swallow. There are a lot of links in it and I’ve included three links to the original documents the report references.
I know that the comment filters will hold it up and apologise to Ian for yet again giving him extra work.
Pieter Spiegel’s posting makes a key point about precisely how far the Greek Government has backed down:
Source: http://blogs.ft.com/brusselsblog/2015/07/10/leaked-greeces-new-economic-reform-proposal/ .Emphasis mine.
mfi
markfromireland
Source: Financial Times:Leaked: Greece’s new economic reform proposal | Brussels blog
Documents [PDFs]:
Link to letter from Alexis Tsipras: TsiprasLetter_09-07-2015-1.pdf
Link to letter from Euclid Tsakalotos: Letter_Tsakalotos-1.pdf
Link to "prior actions" document: Prior-action-final-version-July-2015.pdf
S Brennan
Nice one MFI;
When I refer to Milton “Mephistopheles” Friedman’s Satanic verses*…I am not kidding, that’s what they are. Friedman’s Satanic verses changed America, I remember friends coming to me and singing the praises of that Satanic dung.
*Freedom to Lose, particularly, the 12 part, one hour TV series, played over and over again in prime time on PBS for over seventeen years.
markfromireland
@ Pluto July 9, 2015
Even if they were to start construction now it would be several years before it had any impact. Then there’s the little problem of opposition from Brussels.
Greek energy minister unveils plan for €2bn gas deal with Russia – FT.com:
All emphases mine. I’d be delighted if what you accurately describe as a “happy outcome” were to come about. But I don’t see it ever happening.
mfi
markfromireland
You’ll get no argument from me about that Seamus any ideology allowed run rampant is going to hurt a lot of people. The neo-liberal one preached by Friedman and the Chicago School is particularly vicious.
mfi
Pluto
@markfromireland
My understanding, from following this development through oil and gas trade magazines, is that Russia would give Greece a substantial advance on transit fees, just as China has done for Russia in regards to the landmark oil/gas pipeline they signed last year.
I believe construction has begun very recently, Turkey signed on, and a completion date of 2017 was mentioned.
Certainly, Europe does not have to accept this gas. It had no “competition” problem when it was the “South Stream” entering Europe through Bulgaria. Europe signed off on that. (The entire point of these pipelines was to divert from transiting through Ukraine.)
Perhaps Europe can begin fracking in Brussels to replace the long expected gas from the South Stream, in order to power their factories and stay warm.
Greece can disperse the gas in the same way that all gas-producing nations in the region do, even ISIS. Either way they profit from the arrangement.
That, too, would be a delight to see.
markfromireland
And finally referring to Ian’s last few paragraphs. The OECD has just released the 2015 employment outlook OECD Employment Outlook 2015 – en – OECD there are links on that page for those who want to either purchase it or read it online for free.
The launch page quotes the OECD Secretary-General Angel Gurría as saying:
Time is running out to prevent the scars of the crisis becoming permanent, with millions of workers trapped at the bottom of the economic ladder. If that happens, the long-run legacy of the crisis would be to ratchet inequality up yet another notch from levels that were already far too high. Governments need to act now to avoid a permanent increase in the number of workers stuck in chronic joblessness or moving between unemployment and low-paid precarious jobs.
Except of course that that’s the plan. A large pool of people in economic desperation and (far more importantly) an even larger pool of people hovering just barely above that level and terrified of slipping in to it is what the diabolical fuckers who constitute the ruling class and their enablers in academia such as Friedman want.
There’s just a tiny little problem and that is that people who are desperate and angry with nothing to lose and everything to gain are exactly the people who’ll back the extreme right. They will be more than willing to help the extreme right ” break things to make a new world”.
How might it start? My guess is that it’s most likely to be a series of Kristall Nächte directed against Muslim immigrants and that it’ll snowball from there.
mfi
markfromireland
Open to correction Pluto but I think the date for distribution to begin was 2018. I’ll believe in the advance payment fees when I see them. A lot can happen in 2½ years. Including the installation of a compliant Greek government however achieved.
mfi
Mandos
I agree 100% with @sturdyAlex’s take:
https://www.byline.com/column/11/article/155
Mandos
So I know that a lot of you are chomping at the Grexit bit, but if a Grexit happens, it has to happen as a direct action and choice of the creditors.
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/4131/4131
This is what the referendum bought. I told you in my post that the point of the referendum was to “sea lion” the creditors: to force them into a persistent political dialogue that they did not want to have. They are having this dialogue, and it is up to Schaeuble to pull the plug on it. To utter the Machtwort.
Stirling Newberry
The fat lady sings.
It is only the first act.
Ian Welsh
Schauble is not going to: Merkel will not allow it now that the US has yanked her chain.
And that means that Greece will not end austerity. I stand by the consequences I predicted for that, and say that Tsripas, from what I’m seeing from Greece, could pull the plug if he wanted “you said no to the deal, and Europe still refuses to deal fairly. We’re leaving.”
Failure to do so will is sure death for Syriza. Doing so would give Syriza a chance—if Grexit works by the next election, they’re golden. If not, well, at least they tried to take a shot.
Mandos
Yes. If Grexit is forced (and the German finance ministry is basically saying, against France, etc that the capitulation of Syriza is insufficient), it becomes completely obvious that Schaeuble is the Euroking. If it isn’t, then the whole attempt at ousting Syriza was a miscalculation — Syriza’s very survival without Grexit is the political victory. The nitty-gritty details of the package were not that important in themselves — austerity was happening either way even under Grexit, it was not a get out of jail free card.
Mandos
My “yes” was to Stirling.
Grexit and the survival of Syriza are actually orthogonal. Even if they get help from Russia, Russia is not inherently “Syrizist”. Golden Dawn will also be happy to cooperate with Putin and without the lefty internationalism and left-liberal social attitudes.
Mandos
That is not to say that Syriza will necessarily survive Euro-internal austerity either, of course. What I know is that precipitous actions must be taken by the Eurozone itself, and Schaeble’s principal fear has been that Syriza can portray even its temporary survival as a government as a victory, since he and Dijsselbloem and so on made it in the end, more or less explicitly about destroying Syriza before a deal.
fsw
Meh. I liked it better when it had killer robots in it.