Well, well. I don’t usually write about breaking news, but this seems important. Trump supporters have broken in, shots have been fired, at least one person is on the way to hospital with a gunshot wound. Lawmakers have been told to get ready for the use of tear gas.
Before the protests, Trump had said:
“This election was stolen from you, from me, from the country.”
He also urged his supporters to head to the Capitol, adding: “You’ll never take back our country with weakness.”
But now he’s called in the National Guard and told his supporters to stand down. They’re going to feel betrayed.
I want to note that what these people did is a reasonable response to believing an election has been stolen. That’s what Trump has been telling them. He’s wrong, though delusional enough to probably believe it, but if the election had been clearly stolen– and yet about to be certified, storming the Capitol to maintain democratic norms would be the right thing to do.
Ultimately, Trump is both delusional and gutless. Having called on his supporters to do this, he now abandons them; even turns the National Guard on them.
Propaganda has consequences. When you lie to people and they believe you, they then act on those beliefs.
I will note, as have many others, that these people were being treated, overall, with kid gloves. This rather makes the point:
This is what the Capitol steps looked like during BLM protests, for the record. pic.twitter.com/recG2hCmFj
— Dani Beck (@_DaniBeck) January 6, 2021
It looks like that may be about to change. Even Republican Congress members are now scared and outraged. The “white militia” exemption from serious law enforcement may be about to go away. If it does, that’s interesting. If it doesn’t, that too is interesting.
Either way, I suspect we’re about to get a “stolen election and President who stabbed Patriots in the back” narrative, and a LOT of Republicans will believe it.
As with rhetoric about how abortion is murder, and how widespread abortion is mass murder, IF you believe it’s happening, well, violence would be justified. Expect the militia movement to get even nastier.
Very bad omen for Biden’s administration.
Update (Trump Statement):
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Willy
Besides being control freaks, sociopaths love creating chaos.
Chiron
The next decade might be the end of the US, maybe not as a country but as a Empire.
GlassHammer
DC has so many quick barriers in and around the capital building that I am stunned crowds managed to move around the way they did.
Lefty
It was obviously allowed to happen. Game theory tells them known outcomes will fall within a certain range. What’s waiting in the drawer?
Jessica
UPDATE – Acting Secretary of Defence confirms it was VP Mike Pence, not President Trump who authorised deployment of the National Guard.
Also, obviously someone, either the police themselves or someone higher up, decided to turn the (right-wing) protesters loose into the Capitol. Perhaps the police basically sided with the protesters. Also possible that this was deliberately allowed (if not staged from the start*) to complete the discrediting of Trump.
*There is a real right-wing and it has real grievances. There is an underlying truth to many of those grievances – much of the country has been class cleansed and ransacked by smug elites for decades. But it is still possible that the organizing of this specific protest and this specific time and place was organized by other forces. The US does this abroad all the time and has for decades.
It goes without saying that today’s events will be used to discredit any and all dissent. Just as the covid crisis is similarly being used.
Hugh
This is why Presidents need to be prosecuted. There need to be consequences. Trump is acting like a mad man because he knows he can get away with it.
When Trump wanted a photo-op he set police and national guard on them. And that photo of the national guard defending the Capitol from BLM is priceless. But if you are white right wingers, they practically give you the keys to the door. With Trump, there is no bottom. Anyone in authority should have known that Trump would ramp up the violence. They should have had police and national guard on hand just in case Trump did what anyone with a pulse knew he would do.
It is a hallmark of the age of Trump that even when people know what to do, they don’t do it. And then there are the Trumpists for whom reality consists of the last delusion and conspiracy theory they were fed.
nihil obstet
TikTok has some videos up showing police welcoming protestors through the barriers. The attempted coup had some organized plans behind it. I think they were expecting something like the Brooks Brothers riots that put Bush in the White House in 2000.
The problem for the Republicans is that too many of the wrong class have internalized day dreams of using their guns to overcome evil government. They didn’t respect their betters the way the Brooks Bros. did. That scared the Republicans. I don’t expect much change from this. It will drop like a rock from the media in a week or two and after a very short go-round of “everybody regrets this”, we will all look forward and not back.
NR
So when the president says “This was a fraudulent election that was stolen from all of us” and “you have to respect the law and go home in peace,” which half of this completely contradictory message do you think gets heard?
Trump CREATED this situation by being unable to admit he lost the election. He doesn’t get any credit now for this weak-ass attempt at deescalation. As long as he continues pushing the false “stolen election” narrative, he’s responsible for any violence that results.
Hugh
In Trump world, if he starts a fire and pours gasoline on it, it’s not his fault. It’s a hoax, or fake news, but definitely somebody else’s fault.
anon
You hit the nail on the head about Trump: he is both delusional and gutless. That is why he legitimately lost this election. Sometimes he has decent political instincts, but he never goes to bat and fights for the right things, like $2000 stimulus checks that would have helped him and the Republicans win.
He’s also at heart a reality television star. He lives for drama and has made millions of dollars and won the presidency because of it. He loves seeing chaos unfold on his behalf, but thankfully for most of us, he doesn’t have the guts or courage to become the dictator he wishes he could be.
This will not be the end of the violence. It never is. It only takes a small handful of the most militant of these protestors storming the Capital today to at some point detonate a bomb or go on a shooting spree when everyone least expects it. Half of Americans still support Trump. His movement will live on and we will see the consequences of that for years to come.
Eric Anderson
“Expect the militia movement to get even nastier.”
Why do you think I’m cleaning my firearms?
Jeeze. Got work to do, Ian — enough with the interruptions.
Fully expect the trumpers around here to go ballistic in some symbolically violent manner.
Eric Anderson
And yeah, I’d have to dig back in the comments, but I remember saying that Trump learned one thing well that has served him all his life.
It is this: People hate being put in awkward situations and will do anything to avoid it.
You can always depend on trump to turn the heat up on the awkward.
It’s his singular idiot savant revelation that has fueled his entire career.
Make them squirm.
Hugh
It was a confusing day where the fascists on the inside of the Capitol were interrupted by the fascists marching outside on the Capitol in support of their fascist President. Luckily, the police had a plan –which was to be largely absent.
Could be a long night.
Ché Pasa
It’s eerily calm here in rural Trump Country. People are going on with their lives as best they can, some are taking care of their herds and prepping for planting.
“Didja see what’s going on in DC? Whoo-hoo!” But nothing — so far — about taking up arms and securing the firehouse and beer joint against the Socialist mob.
The sketchy white boys who used to get together in the park every day after the election have mostly disappeared. What they’re up to, I don’t know. Haven’t seen any Stars and Bars lately. 90% or more of the locals wear masks and observe distancing when out and about. Our friends aren’t too scared about events — yet. Some think it’s funny.
There’s clearly a whole bunch of karma playing out.
Lefty
It goes without saying that today’s events will be used to discredit any and all dissent. Just as the covid crisis is similarly being used.
Indeed Jessica. Adjustments will have to be made, as always. Tactics will change where appropriate.
Stirling S Newberry
This is why you need a President not someone you can have a Metaformin with.
StewartM
I’m not sure “gutless” is true; just stupid and easily persuaded. Mike Flynn was right, Trump might have pulled off a military coup; to be sure, the top brass could have said no (and they would be backed by the military lawyers, as everyone says). But what most who say “it can’t happen” don’t say is this–what’s to keep Trump from relieving the top brass from command and going down the chain until he found his Robert Bork willing to do his dirty work for him?
That could have done a lot of damage to the military; said scenario of issuing illegal orders, refusals, and dismissals might have been repeated down the command chain, and it could have led to desertions and defections among ordinary soldiers. However, if Trump had been firm about it, it might have worked, as you don’t have to have a top-notch military just to intimidate civilians.
Our “norms” don’t protect us to the extend people imagine.
Hugh
BTW the woman who was shot earlier today in the Capitol has died. Trump struts and there are consequence. Just not for him.
Z
– I don’t place any blame for this on Hawley.
– Some of the videos show the Capitol Police pushing aside barricades and letting protestors in and some folks are calling that proof that they are in cahoots with the protestors, but you can see in the videos that protestors had already gotten in behind them so their defense had been breached and it is just smart tactics to allow the protestors in front of them pass by at that point rather than get into a skirmish with a group of people that you are in danger of being surrounded by.
What probably happened is that Trump gave orders not to shoot the protestors so their hands were tied in dealing with them.
Z
different clue
@GlassHammer,
Clearly the barriers were all opened up to facilitate, or even assist, the mob getting through.
@Hugh,
So the woman who was shot has died? Well . . . . she took one for the MAGA herd.
When that young MAGA shot dead a couple of antifas at Kenosha, the MAGA community all laughed and praised it. Where is their god now?
Hugh
StewartM, Trump has decapitated most of the leadership at the Pentagon. Problem is a coup has to be organized, and Trump couldn’t organize a one car parade. What today showed is that there is no bottom with Trump. In two weeks, he’s gone and he will make it as painful as possible for us on his way out. And the pardon lollapalooza hasn’t even begun.
anon
I saw the video of the young woman shot at the Capital. She was shot in the neck and bleeding profusely seconds later. Someone was heard in the video saying that she was gone. I didn’t expect her to survive. Trump doesn’t care about anyone but himself. He gets off on chaos and madness regardless of the costs.
Ché Pasa
Just another martyr for Trump.
More and more people are saying the mob was let in to the Capitol. Someone arranged for it to be so? Who knows.
different clue
In order to get a lay of the political-social landscape, it helps to read some pro-MAGA sites and people.
Here is the most recent Larry Johnson guest-post at Sic Semper Tyrannis.
https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2021/01/what-you-can-do-to-stop-the-steal-by-larry-c-johnson.html
Here is a very recent post by Colonel ( Ret.) Patrick Lang.
https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2021/01/the-republicans-prepare-for-opposition-status-and-trump-with-them.html
And here are a couple from The Crawdad Hole, to which a lot of Riverdaughter’s one-time reader-commenters went after they and Riverdaughter had a falling-out over something.
https://crayfisher.wordpress.com/2021/01/06/can-you-hear-us-now/
https://crayfisher.wordpress.com/2021/01/05/president-elect-asterisk/
If Biden really thinks he will Unify and Heal the Soul of America, well . . . . let him give it a try.
Meanwhile, I remain as gunless as the day I was born. At age 63, it is too late for me to think I can gun-up and catch up to the skill and proficiency levels of decades-long participants in the gun culture. So I will just try avoiding mob scenes of whatever orientation. And if strangers try talking politics with me, I will beg off with plausible excuses. ” Not today, Sir. I have a headache.”
Also meanwhile, violent mobs of anti-maskers are beginning to storm through malls and shopping centers, attacking mask-wearers and so forth. Mask wearers may have to start carrying big powerful far-reaching spray cans of Bear Spray in order to fight off the violent anti-maskers.
GlassHammer
Yeah none of how it happened makes sense to me.
Everytime I went to DC an oppressive amount of security was present.
To see that security collapse live on TV is hard to put into words.
David Veale
Those of us on the left saw blatant, undeniable election rigging during the democratic primaries. Why would we believe that the general election was not rnn the same way, especially considering that the president and vp-elect had exceedingly low support until someone waved their magic want (with the help of electronic voting machines and counters. Just the very fact that ballots are not hand-counted in the US as they are in other countries (such as Canada) is testament enough. The fact that our country literally qualifies as an oligarchy should be evidence enough.
I have no love of Trump, but to the extent that the people storming the capitol did so to rid themselves of a heinously corrupt government, they have my full support.
bruce wilder
I was struck reading Ian’s comment, which emphasized the conditional: “if this is what you truly believe”, then this radical even violent behavior is appropriate. Now most of us realize that though the election was not exactly the picture of democratic integrity, it also was not “stolen” under the rules and norms of the game. But that “if” in Ian’s comment struck me.
First because twenty years ago a Presidential election really was stolen. And no centrist or liberal did more than yawn.
Second, because the Democratic primary elections in 2016 and 2020 were subject to chicanery. So, those now aggrieved are not exactly innocent.
Third, because while the idealistically sincere Ian may emphasize the conditional predicated on sincere belief, those of us more cynical cannot help but speculate that any drama must be staged to purpose.
I get that people like the drama and get carried away on pretence. The election season saw record turnout in unlikely places and for candidates of highly dubious character or promise. I admit I never understood Trump’s support let alone his obsessed opposition. Many of those expressing themselves horrified at the delusional Trump and his delusional fanbase spent at a couple of years gaslighting us with Russia,Russia,Russia.
I am genuinely sorry to see that a woman died, caught up in all this nonsense. There can be genuine consequences to the flagrant irresponsibility of the political classes and the terrible othering of partisans.
GlassHammer
“to the extent that the people storming the capitol did so to rid themselves of a heinously corrupt government, they have my full support” – David Veale
Just because a mob sees the same problem you do and takes a course of action you approve of does not mean they will push for the solution you want.
The solution they want might be one you hate and it might make the one you want impossible to obtain.
Mob veto really isn’t something to root for.
NR
Not to mention the fact that the mob was storming the capitol IN SUPPORT OF a heinously corrupt government.
Trump is at least a contender for the most corrupt president to ever hold the office.
Mark Pontin
So just to state the obvious: the ball has only begun to start rolling. The effects of the main wave of mass evictions, foreclosures, and closings of small businesses — representing the lives’ work and fortunes of their owners — have yet to start kicking in, even as COV19 rates have begun surging high enough to break hospitals in a country of 330 million that doesn’t have a proper healthcare system.
Possibly, somewhere in the files of the Pentagon or the national security bureaucracy there are contingency plans drawn up by competent hands — back in a time when competent hands still existed — to deal with a situation like this. Certainly, it’s pretty to think that pockets of competence remain somewhere in U.S. government.
Back in the real world, however, at the top of the chains of command are the same neoliberal pols and Washington bureaucrats who for the last forty years have held no comprehension of government as anything but a mechanism to help their donors and corporate buddies loot the general economy. If anybody, for instance, assumes greater competence in dealing with COV19 — beyond Trump being gone from the White House — from the Biden administration, recall that these are the same people who couldn’t get a freaking website for the ACA up and running in less than four years, for God’s sake.
Moreover, the coming mass evictions, foreclosures, and collapse of small businesses — and of tax revenues for state and local public services — promise further enrichment for the big asset management funds and corporations (e.g. Amazon, DoorDash, etc.) that own the DC politicians and chief bureaucrats. Those DC pols’ first and last instinct will therefore be to let the evictions, foreclosures, etc. proceed to whatever extent is compatible with having a U.S. left to loot — and when have they ever gone further than much too far in that regard? That’s why the country is where it’s at today.
The three countries with the top COV19 death tolls today are the U.S. at 369,139 deaths, Brazil with 199,043 deaths, and India with 199,043. Given that Brazil and India are third-world countries, what’s that say about the Richest Country in the History of the World™?
Chernobyl in 1980, for a notional comparison, only produced 50 deaths directly attributable to the disaster, with another 4,000 _possibly_ dead over time from radiation exposure. It was still enough to reveal the hollowness and incompetence of the Soviet state, which collapsed five hears later.
Current U.S. events have the potential, if the wrecking ball really gathers momentum, to turn COVID19 and the bungled — indeed, in many cases deliberately sabotaged — response to it by U.S. elites into a slow-motion Chernobyl over the next few years.
Ten Bears
Oh yeah, back in the real world, thank you Mark …
Wicked Wildfires ~ The year began with apocalyptic wildfires in Australia, fueled by heatwaves. It was an image that would play out time and time again in 2020.
In June, Siberia began to burn; through July and August, the west coast of the US was ablaze, the worst wildfire season in 70 years; by September, the Amazon rainforest and the world’s largest wetland to its south, the Pantanal, were on fire. More than a quarter of those fires happened in virgin forest . September 2020 actually had 66% more fires than September 2019.
Savage Storms ~ In November, super typhoon Goni made landfall in the Philippines while at maximum intensity, with sustained wind speeds of 195mph; in the North Atlantic, 2020 was the busiest hurricane season on record, with 30 named storms and six major hurricanes. The single costliest storm of the season, Hurricane Laura, made landfall in Haiti and Louisiana, killing 77 people and causing more than $14 billion in damages.
Two major hurricanes, Eta and Iota, caused significant damage in Honduras and Nicaragua making landfall in the region in November, two weeks and 15 miles apart.
Frightening Floods ~ The world’s deadliest flooding this year took place in east Africa in March through May; though the rainfall was predicted, locust outbreaks and COVID meant people faced secondary hazards such as widespread landslides and a cholera outbreak.
Devastating Droughts ~ Severe drought across central and western US is the first billion-dollar drought of 2020, contributing to a record-breaking 16 weather and climate disasters with $1 billion in damages in the US in 2020 alone.
Conditions during 2020 represented the latest phase of a “mega-drought” over the past 20 years. By the peak in summer, a third of the US was in a moderate drought and much of the west was under severe to extreme drought. This coincided with abnormally hot summer temperatures and over 2 million acres of land burned nationwide, further enhancing drought conditions in a vicious cycle.
Horrendous Heatwaves ~ The northern hemisphere summer saw repeated heatwaves, culminating in mid-August. Japan, for instance, had record-breaking temperatures with cities across the country having multiple days at 40°C. In one week, more than 12,000 people were admitted to hospital with heat-related illnesses. Even the UK’s heatwave, accompanied by tropical nights, caused 1,700 excess deaths.
At the start of the summer season in Australia, temperature records have already been broken. It seems the year will go out on an extreme high.
When you step back far enough to see the whole picture, this don’t mean much …
Hugh
For the first time today just two weeks from Trump leaving office, I heard someone on the news say that people at the White House were concerned that Trump was no longer attached to reality and that the 25th Amendment should be readied. This struck me for two reasons. First, what does it say that even some of the biggest Trump whores on the planet were getting scared of their dear leader. Second, Trump has had a recognizable personality disorder for the last sixty years. I suppose better late than never. Still this lack of awareness is pretty astounding.
S Brennan
Well, unlike others here who worship the two faced god of January, I been consistent:
Bush 2nd stole the 2000 election and Al Gore should have fought on instead of quitting under neoD/media-3-letter agencies pressure, and almost all here who say the 2020 election was beyond reproach say that Bush 2nd stole the 2000 election.
NeoD election officials who are usually the same people who work the general stole the 2016 primary away from Sanders, although Sanders knew this was going on and perhaps aided in the theft of utopianist efforts, money and hope and almost all here who say the 2020 election was beyond reproach say Sanders was robbed.
I am accused of repeating myself but it’s not me if the “blue no matter who” falls for the same shtick twice….
NeoD election officials who are usually the EXACT same people who work the general stole the 2020 primary away from Sanders, although Sanders knew this was going on and perhaps aided in the theft of utopianist efforts, money and hope and almost all here who say the 2020 election was beyond reproach say Sanders was robbed.
So Ian, why do you believe that the EXACT same people who stole votes in order to have Biden win the primary are beyond reproach when they are accused of stealing votes to have Biden win the general? If they wanted Biden to win the primary and cheated, why the eff wouldn’t they want Biden to win the General and cheat? Did those election officials suddenly turn over a new leaf?
What did JFK say back before Al From established an unaccountable and unchangeable neoD party hierarchy? Something like “make peaceful revolution impossible and you’ll will make violent revolution inevitable.”…seems like the neoD’s and their electoral tactics that feature districts turning in tallies with 97% of voters voting for Biden in districts that never saw 60% for Obama, or statewide counts were Trump repeatedly showed negative returns might be part of the problem..eh?
BTW, Capitol Hill in Seattle was occupied for months without any police response so to say that these protesters are being treated better is complete bullshit.
JFK
Please don’t reference me.
Ivory Bill Woodpecker
Uh, if the Democratic Party can steal elections, and it stole the general election for Biden–then why did it not also steal firmer majorities in the Senate and House?
David Veale
@Glasshammer — I certainly can’t claim to know the desires of those storming the capital today, but living in the middle of Trump country in the rural midwest (I’d guess Trump signs outnumbered Biden signs about 100:1 here), I’d like to think I do understand them to a large degree, as I speak with them regularly. With that said, I think this is much more about getting rid of corruption than it is about reinstalling Trump. There’s no doubt the revolutions are also invariably civil wars, just as the American Revolution was, when some of my ancestors fled to Canada, and some fought the British.
I’d be curious to know your take — would you suggest that the corruption in our government does not rise to a level which justifies revolution? Should I list out specific grievances and see if you agree with any of them?
Hugh
Shorter SB: Trump thugs attacked the Capitol. So obviously the Democrats’ fault.
NR
David Veale: If these rioting morons cared one iota about corruption, they wouldn’t be trying to install Donald Trump for another term.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ballrooms-candles-and-luxury-cottages-during-trumps-term-millions-of-government-and-gop-dollars-have-flowed-to-his-propertiesmar-a-lago-charged-the-government-3-apiece-for-glasses-of-water-for-trump-and-the-japanese-leader/2020/10/27/186f20a2-1469-11eb-bc10-40b25382f1be_story.html
This is just one of many examples of Trump’s blatant corruption, and yet these people still support him. “Corruption” has nothing to do with why they’re rioting.
David Veale
@Ten Bears — you do us all a service by reminding us of what our reality is, but perhaps our fighting aboard the deck of our Titanic helps us to ignore where we’re all headed. I lost hope of repairing this ship a few years when the feedback loops went into overdrive.
orange
I loved watching the chaos unfold today and only hope that it spreads far and wide. Americans are immoral subhuman scum and looking forward to ALL of you suffering for what you’ve done to mothers abd children around the world.
David Veale
@NR — no disagreement there. Many Trump voters are truly delusional, no doubt. But I’ve spoken to many who recognize him for what he is, and viewed their vote for him as they would tossing a monkey wrench into the machinery of corruption, in hopes of destroying something they couldn’t see defeating any other way. Today, it looks as if that outcome is more likely.
Hugh
David Veale, do you expect us to take seriously your idea that Trumpists really aren’t Trumpists? That they are really anti-corruptionists and they express this by their unquestioning support of one of the most corrupt Presidents in our history? Maybe that’s what they believe. It doesn’t mean any of the rest of us need to drink that kool-aid.
different clue
@orange,
Thank you for your comment. We are always happy to hear from you. Please let us know if you have any other concerns.
yellow
I thought the comment was bold and honest.
Buzzard
You seem to be saying that the rioters stormed the Capitol because their information sources kept repeating that the election was stolen, and that’s perfectly understandable. But this interpretation lets them off the hook too easily. These are grown adults with agency, and, presumably, functioning minds. They *choose* to listen to news sources and leaders who keep feeding lies to them, and whenever someone points them out, they just double down on their gullibility. People are being infected with COVID all around them, some of them dying from it, and they continue to insist that masks are evil and unmanly. At some point they need to own their actions and challenge their belief systems when they’re shown to be lacking. If they don’t, they don’t get to claim the “I was misled” excuse, and they’re every bit as culpable for their actions are their leaders.
David Veale
@Hugh — believe what you like, or what you’ve heard on MSNBC, but I’m basing my opinions on those I’ve met and speak with regularly. Most Americans, imho, are not unreasonable people. Many Trump voters would’ve voted for Sanders if the DNC hadn’t pulled the rug out from beneath him. They, like me, don’t like the endless wars (and it’s often their kids fighting them, moreso than those on the left), being screwed by corporatized healthcare, banks that have inflated the price of education and housing beyond all reason for their own benefit, or being screwed by the pharmaceutical racket.
David Veale
@Buzzard — before you demonize your neighbors, I’d suggest picking one with a Trump sticker on their bumper and talking to them, with full sincerity. Chances are that you agree on much of what is wrong with this country. We’re blinded by a corporatized media on both sides of the aisle, and that’s because the people who are screwing us cannot win against a united citizenry, and they know it. They feed the libtard/trumptard meme because it keeps their positions safe. To the extent that we take the bait, we all lose.
mago
Har har orange/“mellow” yellow. As Robert Zimmerman famously remarked, “the sun ain’t hello, it’s chicken”, which makes about as much sense as anything else happening here.
mago
“yellow” not ‘hello’. Ah screw it.
Anthony K Wikrent
Today should be seen as the latest phase in the collapse of democratic legitimacy. And more importantly, the collapse of democratic legitimacy should be seen as the culmination of three quarters of a century of rich reactionaries creating, funding, and developing the modern conservative and libertarian movements, beginning with the rich reactionaries rejection of the New Deal. The rich have rejected the basic premises of our republic: that the role of government is to regulate and suppress the conflict between contending economic interests (The Federalist Papers, Number 10), and to Promote the General Welfare. Beginning with the slave holders, the rich reactionaries want to limit the role of government to protecting the accumulation of property. Heather Cox Richardson is excellent in making clear this link between the slave holding oligarchs, and today’s conservative and libertarian movements.
The rich reactionaries have almost succeeded in destroying our republic from within, especially by getting the Supreme Court to basically rule that wealth equals speech. Greater wealth only confers a greater capacity for speech, negating the key republican principle of all people are created equal. The real thorny issue we should be focusing on, but cannot because the plutocrats and their plutonomy are creating one crisis after another, is how do we constrain the rights of the rich without constraining the rights of everyone else?
The key lesson of classical republicanism — which the rich reactionaries have paid countless academicians and scribblers of biased history to bury — is that the rich are ALWAYS a threat to republican self-government:
QUOTE … the duty of a republic [is] to control “the selfishness of mankind … ; for liberty consists not in the permission to distress fellow citizens, by extorting extravagant advantages from them, in matters of commerce or otherwise.” Because it was commonly understood that “the exorbitant wealth of individuals” had a “most baneful influence” on the maintenance of republican governments and “therefore should be carefully guarded against…” END QUOTE — Gordon Wood, The Creation of the American Republic. pages 63-64.
I have concluded that the only way the left defeats the increasingly feudalistic rentier capitalism the rich reactionaries and their conservative and libertarian movements are driving us towards, is to pick up and use these ideas of classical republicanism.
Donovan
That’s a good idea Tony.
Incidentally, the “Mellow Yellow” of my my fame refers to electrical bananas, popular with the ladies back in the day.
S Brennan
David Veale said:
“Many Trump voters would’ve voted for Sanders if the DNC hadn’t pulled the rug out from beneath him. They, like me, don’t like the endless wars (and it’s often their kids fighting them, more so than those on the left), being screwed by corporatized healthcare, banks that have inflated the price of education and housing beyond all reason for their own benefit, or being screwed by the pharmaceutical racket….
….before you demonize your neighbors, I’d suggest picking one with a Trump sticker on their bumper and talking to them, with full sincerity. Chances are that you agree on much of what is wrong with this country. We’re blinded by a corporatized media on both sides of the aisle, and that’s because the people who are screwing us cannot win against a united citizenry, and they know it”
—————————————
Worth repeating over and over and over…as the doors to Janus’s temple are opened.
mago
Si señor sunshine superman. If you say so. They were using the real Dole back then not the battery powered ersatz thing. Go natural if you’re gonna go at all. Never mind.
different clue
@yellow,
Thank you for your interest in my comment. I am always happy to hear from you. Please let me know if you have any other concerns.
John Paul Jones
I arranged that damn song and I agree: au naturel all the way.
Hugh
I agree with Anthony. The rich are a curse.
David Veale, there are lots of people who are the salt of the earth when they aren’t talking politics, but start repeating as gospel the most transparent lies and contradictions when they do, as Buzzard says.
Today was interesting because for a couple of minutes some Senators woke from their drug induced comas. McConnell said, respect the election. Even stranger Lindsey Graham, the poster boy of political whoredom, said, it’s over. Biden won.
GlassHammer
“I’d be curious to know your take — would you suggest that the corruption in our government does not rise to a level which justifies revolution? Should I list out specific grievances and see if you agree with any of them?” – David Veale
I would suggest that without a wide and deep working class movement all attempts are doomed to not only fail but bolster the strength of the government you dislike.
Heck the most obvious outcome from this is a massive boost to then surveillance and security state. Today happened because of the gap between perceived security strength and actual security strength. That gap will be reduced to make it Damn near impossible to exploit it again.
The next most obvious outcome would be that it is even easier to pass awful legislation because those in power have a new boogeyman to scare you with. Keep us in power or those people will take power. Hell it might even hobble the Republican party for awhile allowing more power to concentrate into fewer hands in Congress.
We can skip the list of grievances, your a reasonably intelligent person so you would list more than a few things I concur with. But like I alluded to earlier just because we identify the same issues and the same avenues for change does not mean we agree on solutions. And unless I know your solutions I can’t tell if we aren’t at odds with each other.
Any who it’s late, I will pick this up again in the morning. Take care all.
VietnamVet
The Storming of the Capitol is a replay of July 14, 1789. Pundits are shell-shocked. Now their concern is the next two weeks. Donald Trump is to blame. What will he do next? He should be gone. Not once mentioning that the Elite are as responsible and the months of protests are blow-back.
The 25th Amendment apparently was already used or ignored by the Vice President ordering the swarming Capitol Hill with national guard troops and police to protect himself.
No mention on the news of the complete total failure of the US government once again. It is not like the protests came out of the blue.
The future is not bright. The top ten percent will only be paid if they continue the exploitation of the 90% by global vampire capitalism; otherwise, they’ll be as broke as deplorables.
Without jobs, health, and families, the lower castes have nothing to lose. With hundreds of thousands more deaths already than Chernobyl, the fall of the Western Empire like USSR has happened. Secession of the United States is a given unless the rule of law and government by and for the people are restored.
Can Canada stay together with dissolution below?
js
“Many Trump voters would’ve voted for Sanders if the DNC hadn’t pulled the rug out from beneath him.”
Could woulda shoulda, did they even register Dem in the primaries in order to do so? No, then they are surely all talk.
Hugh
People with a narcissistic personality disorder make themselves the center of their universe and as much as they can the center of the universe of those around them. But they have a crisis when their grandiose image of themselves is directly challenged in ways they can’t deny. We are seeing this with Trump and his increasing decompensation. He fomented yesterday’s Capitol Hill riot. That is a political act of terror and insurrection. People have been covering for Trump all his life. They have gone into overdrive after his election loss, but they and his supporters can’t unmake or cover up the glaring reality of his loss. Trump is caught in a box where he knows but can’t accept that he lost the election. For you or me, it would be well such a loss would be tough and difficult but we would deal with it. For someone like Trump with clinical narcissism, that isn’t an option. It contradicts everything he is. It contradicts him. He is lashing out even as his whole concept of who he is collapses. In someone with a little power, this would be ugly. With a President, it is dangerous –to us.
I think until today the thinking in the White House and among our powers that be was that they could just ride it out to the 20th. What we are seeing is that Trump’s mental degeneration won’t let them. He needs to be hit with haloperidol and lorazepam or ejected via the 25th Amendment until Jan. 20th. To be charitable, he is sick and can not discharge his duties. To be uncharitable, he is fre-king crazy and dangerous.
Ten Bears
Still popular with the ladies, Don, and no doubt the “men” here.
bruce wilder
@Hugh
McConnell or Graham have no particular anxiety with regard to a Biden Presidency for the obvious reason that Biden will deliver what they want as well or better than Trump. The Democratic Party has proven unwilling to be a vehicle for organizing effective opposition to the likes of McConnell or Graham. Consider the way the Democratic Party channelled vast sums into the deliberately futile campaigns to replace them.
Why people frustrated and horrified by what the U.S. has become, with its elite carrying on perpetual war, exporting jobs and coddling a predatory financial sector would think a clown like Trump would “drain the swamp” or “make America great again” or succeed in withdrawing any troops from the wars, is beyond my understanding. But, then I also cannot understand why anyone would argue that the doddering architect of much that is wrong with America would promise to be “the most progressive President” since sliced bread after a career championing credit card debt and student debt and mass incarceration and stupid wars is also beyond me.
Hugh wants to argue that McConnell and Co are to blame when Biden and Co screw us or “fail” to do any thing to benefit the 80%. Hugh will go on and on about Trump family greed and corruption but we are supoosed to pretend Hunter Biden selling his father’s influence to crooked hedge funds, Ukrainian oligarchs and Chinese hongs is just Russian disinformation. He will try to make out that Trump’s hypomania is psychopathia of the first order, but Biden being a lifelong fabulist now well advanced into senility is no cause for concern.
The fierce partisanship and political polarization is for show. It reaches the hearts of people in a country suffering manipulation by billionaires and their servant class, but it is manufactured to keep power out of the hands of The People. We are losing our Republic when in the midst of crisis compounding crisis we are forced to trade in the horrible Trump for the horrible Biden. The election was fixed when the system threw that dog’s breakfast up as the “choice”. Our politics was broken when the ” scandal” the loyal opposition fixated on in opposing Trump was a made-up fantasy of Russian subversion thru Facebook ads.
@GlassHammer “We” are not at odds over solutions. “We” — the deluded Trumpists and the deluded Hugh’s — by design to prevent governance in the interest of the People. My plea is to just stop going along with the often pretension and manipulation. Don’t hate people who care because they have different ideas about plausible solutions; reserve your hate for people who do not care at all and do not want any reform, any remedy. Know the people on teevee acting crazy are victims and the talking heads clucking righteously about it all are millionaire liars paid to misinform you about everything.
Ché Pasa
Tony Wickrent says about the events of yesterday:
And I think it’s one of the more accurate and useful analyses of the uproar, not simply at the capitol in DC but in many state capitals and all over the media.
But I’m not sure his corrective action can even be attempted in the current environment. One thing preventing it is the institutional collapse we’ve lived with and through for decades, collapse engineered and fostered by our ruling class in order to enhance, protect and defend their privilege and wealth. In other words, there is no institutional means to “pick up and use these ideals of classical republicanism.”
And there is not time to create or re-create them. Nor, I think, is there the will.
Our institutions have failed us miserably for so long it’s no longer possible for many people — maybe most — to put faith in them to work on behalf of “classical republicanism” or The People. We know who they work for — if they work at all — and it’s not us. Not the MAGAts and not us.
Trump and his protectors and enablers have accelerated the breakdown in public trust and public institutions. We can argue about whether that’s a good thing (for those who are dying and will die, it’s not) but there’s nothing at this point to take the place of what’s being smashed and burned. We can’t go back to some halcyon past that never really existed anyway. Yet there’s no forward vision but more destruction, death and rapine.
The short term result (as the Chinese would be perfectly willing to instruct us if we would listen) is warlordism, and that’s where we’re headed if not to immediate civil war.
GlassHammer
“My plea is to just stop going along with the often pretension and manipulation.”
– Bruce wilder
Politics (all means to move masses) is a narrative based game that may or may not tightly connect with material reality. That means manipulation is baked into it and can’t be decoupled from it. That said, you can hold both manipulators and the manipulated accountable for their actions.
“Don’t hate people who care because they have different ideas about plausible solutions;”
-Bruce wilder
If those plausible solutions directly harm my community, my family, and me then they are going to recieve my ire. I expect others to do the same should I attempt to harm them.
“reserve your hate for people who do not care at all and do not want any reform, any remedy.” – Bruce Wilder
There are worse outcomes than the status quo. You have to weigh the change vs. the current state of things. Sometimes agents of change are wrong and sometimes they are not.
“people on teevee acting crazy are victims” – Bruce Wilder
Yes and no. They have agency even if they are swept up in a narrative.
Joan
Tony I think that’s a great idea!
Stirling S Newberry
While this is unusual it is not that unusual. The last time we had it it was on the left. (1960-1972)
Lefty
There are worse outcomes than the status quo. You have to weigh the change vs. the current state of things. Sometimes agents of change are wrong and sometimes they are not.
Add that agents of change aren’t always who they say they are.
And there are constant unknowns with change of this magnitude. People don’t like that. Hard to initiate and even harder to maintain. Once started, it’s not like a boulder gathering speed as it travels downhill. It’s more akin to constantly having to push the boulder up the hill, interspersed with moments of downhill momentum.
Hugh
bruce would have us believe that yesterday was just another day in Washington. bruce only does false equivalence. Yesterday was a totally Republican performance where the results of the election were cynically contested by both Trump egged on legislators in the Congress and rioters in the streets. Still among this the momentary turn on a dime, for the next 5 minutes we’ll go against everything we have been doing for years, and actually act sane and reasonable actions of McConnell and Graham were noteworthy. But even on a day where the Republicans dominated the narrative and not in a good way, bruce has to hit us over the head with Democrats bad, in fact worse, than Republicans theme –for about the millionth time. It is a kind of hackery the RNC would be proud of.
Hugh
I wrote a comment in the last post that disappeared into perpetual mod. It was basically that Trump has a personality disorder. It’s not that he has an excessively high opinion of himself. Lots of people do but not to the point of being a disorder, interfering with or preventing their daily functioning. As I have said, if Trump weren’t born into wealth, he would have ended up in prison long ago. Instead he recast his failures and crimes, as brilliant business coups, and himself, an extremely ignorant man, into a stable genius. And he turned all his malign goofiness into a brand.
But my central point was people with Trump’s disorder lash out when their image of themselves is challenged and they mentally collapse when events/reality prevent them sustaining the fiction of their greatness. I would say with Trump’s inevitable exit in two weeks, we are in the collapse phase of his disorder, and that is dangerous for us.
Ché Pasa
Or has Trump already exited stage right? Pence seemed to be in charge yesterday. Trump was the firebomber who got a time out.
Charlie
Trump was our Gorbachev, albeit a shitty one, and will wind up in exile just the same. Yeltsin Biden is taking over. So get ready for at least a 10 year drop in life expectancy.
different clue
Colonel ( Ret.) Lang at Sic Semper Tyrannis has come to an analysis similar to Hugh’s , that Trump is a “ticking time bomb” sort of acute menace, and needs fastest possible separation from power and control.
https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2021/01/president-trump-should-go-he-should-go-now.html
Jack
Lang lacked the sense to know what Trump was from the beginning. The Colonel Langs of the world are a bigger problem than the Donald Trunps of the world.