The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

The Simplest Explanation For Not Breaking Covid Vaccine Patents

The faster we get everyone immunized, throughout the world, the more likely we can stop Covid from going chronic, becoming the new flu (but more deadly, unless/until it mutates to become less fatal, which the untried models say it should.)

However, if Covid is cured, well, you can’t make money off Covid any more, can you?

Chronic Covid, mutating constantly, means more and more vaccines, and more and more and more money for vaccine makers.

Ghastly, and I know that many readers are probably, “that’s absurd”, but consider, does it have both explanatory and predictive power?

Does, “Covid makes the rich, richer so they want it to keep going” have explanatory and predictive power?

Qui Bono? Who benefits? Since the people who run our societies profit from Covid, why would they actually want it over (remember, billionaires have become vastly richer.)

I, too, dislike living in a society where this explanation has stronger predictive power than “our leaders don’t want us to die in large numbers, and become poverty-struck, just so they can get richer,” but that statement, well, look at it closely. If that was true, how would our rulers behave? Not just during Covid, but at other times?


I mean, I’ve been saying this sort of thing for a while, because it’s obviously true, but I’m embarrassed it took me so long to realize it applied to vaccine creators as well, especially since Pharma has a well-known bias towards medicines that are palliatives, not cures. Someone who needs your medicine again and again is much better than someone who needs it only once.

Gotta admire the pure predator instinct in our rulers. They’re the wolves, we’re the sheep and God, do they love mutton.

It’s them or us, and so far, it’s us.

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Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – February 14, 2021


Simple Advice For the Cold Emergency


  1. coucous

    So are you saying the elite are deliberately fucking up vax rollout and the Covid response? I absolutely agree that they are evil enough to be willing to do this, but are they really planning it or are they doing it subconsciously?

  2. bruce wilder

    I think they are doing it consciously. Why not? Court documents now show how big tobacco planned. How Exxon-Mobil planned climate denial. How big pharma promoted addiction to prescription (and diverted!) opiates.

    Bill Gates is on record waxing poetic over the prospect of selling travel documents that prove your vaccine status. More gatekeeping. And gatekeeping is a proven way to “earn” economic rents.

  3. Jerry Brown

    Ian, the amount spent or that might be spent on vaccines is trivial in comparison to the costs of this epidemic and even more trivial to normal economic activity. I think you are going down a dead end road on this one.

  4. GM

    The faster we get everyone immunized, throughout the world, the more likely we can stop Covid from going chronic, becoming the new flu (but more deadly, unless/until it mutates to become less fatal, which the untried models say it should.)

    You have it wrong in this case.

    The COVID vaccines, if/when implement on a massive scale, are not going to solve the problem, but only make it worse, because none of the current ones are sterilizing (i.e. completely stopping transmission). Which means that when you vaccinate a large portion of the population with them, resistance will evolve and then it all starts again, but now you probably have a more contagious and/or deadlier virus to deal with, and there is no knowing whether the updated vaccines you come up with against it will be as efficient as the initial ones against the original strains (it might be a tired cliche to say it, but it’s no less true because of that — immunology is complex and all sorts of scenarios are possible).

    This, BTW, is exactly what happened in Manaus and South Africa — both of those are areas where a huge fraction of the population got infected and developed antibodies, which placed selective pressure on the appearance of immune escape variants.

    This has nothing to do with vaccination not proceeding fast enough, exactly the opposite — vaccine-induced immunity is likely to be longer lasting than the one developed through natural infection, and for coronaviruses natural infection immunity is very short lived — 1-2 years at most — but still, for a period of 6-12 months most people are immune, and once you have a massive wave infecting 50-60-70% of the population, you have effectively achieved the same thing as mass vaccination. Again, this is temporary, and probably shorter-lived than vaccine-induced immunity, but it is there in the short term.

    And what happened? We got escape mutants very quickly.

    People have also done a lot of in vitro evolution work on the virus, and based on that it is clear that the available evolutionary space to explore in the future is large, and it contains the potential for much worse versions of the virus too.

    Not that one even needed those experiments to know that — NL63, one of the common cold coronaviruses, also uses ACE2 as its receptor, but its RBD is completely different from that of SARS-1 or SARS-2, i.e. the space of viable RBDs is very large. This is not measles, immunity towards which is so long lasting at least in part because its receptor binding seems to have been completely optimized and can’t evolve resistance without becoming less infectious, thus there is no real antigenic drift.

    Now we are going to run that same experiment on a orders-of-magnitude larger scale with vaccines. Guess what the results will be…

    If you want to look for a conspiracy theory here, you might have better luck exploring the question of why the vaccines are not sterilizing, but even that will not be as fruitful as hoped for because there are good technical reasons for that, except in one case.

    You can make sterilizing vaccines by making them intranasal or oral, as those will induce mucosal immunity. And this is actively being worked on.

    But that is not possible for the mRNA vaccines because of the nature of how those work. And the mRNA vaccines were the quickest to be developed, again, because of how they work, which makes it very fast to work them out.

    The intranasal ones take a lot longer.

    The Oxford/AstraZeneca one could have been intranasal, but for some weird reason they decided on insisting on injecting it in people’s arms. That was a puzzling decision, but it is the only such case.

    Everyone else who could be intranasal and sterilizing is just behind in the process because that process takes time to go through.

    So no conspiracy to look for here either.

    The vaccination campaign is not where the real political COVID issue is. The ruling class simply decided that it is too inconvenient for them to adequately address the problem so they just let people die (which successfully convincing much of the population that it is in their best interest to get sick and die). That they engineered another massive transfer of wealth out of it was a nice bonus, but one does not have to posit that as the primary motivation and then explain everything else that happened as part of a grand conspiracy to do that.

    In the not even so long term, it may well hurt them massively too, the COVID catastrophe is only getting started and will last decades if current policies remain in place.

  5. Jan Wiklund

    The experienced criminologist does not only ask “who profits from it?” S/he also asks “”Who has the opportunity?” And I am quite sure that Big Pharma does not have the opportunity to block vaccine production.

    This because it consists of too many firms in too many countries – all competing with each other. So if any tries to block, others will step in. For example, some Chinese.

  6. someofparts

    I read somewhere that in Israel the policy is to vaccinate only the Jewish population and then leave the Palestinians without any protection. If the question is whether or not our overlords would weaponize the pandemic against the underclass, maybe Israel is helping to prove the case against the ruling class by being so obvious.

    Also, am I wrong to think that a non-sterilizing vaccine will make the people who take it more dangerous to those who don’t get the shots? It sounds like they will be asymptomatic spreaders and also incubators for deadlier new varieties of the pathogen.

    I can see our American PMC being very pleased with that. No expensive security measures will be needed to protect them from the servants if everyone knows their employers can kill just by breathing on them.

    Now I’m wondering about prospects for a sterilizing vaccine administered as a nasal spray. It seems like a wide distribution of such a treatment really would finally rein in the pandemic. So that makes me curious about what the politics of it are going to be, if and when it happens.

  7. GM

    And I am quite sure that Big Pharma does not have the opportunity to block vaccine production.

    This because it consists of too many firms in too many countries – all competing with each other. So if any tries to block, others will step in. For example, some Chinese.

    This provides a lot of useful information about the actual details of making the vaccines and where the choke points are:

  8. Jeremy

    @GM – you’re completely correct.

    These vaccines are garbage. Still in Phase 3 trials that won’t be ending until 2023.
    That is why they haven’t been approved, but have been released under an Emergency Use Authorization.

    SARS-Cov-2 is, in fact, now another endemic coronavirus that will continue to mutate just as the flu virus does. And, as with the flu virus, vaccine manufacturers will forever be trying to second guess what characteristics each year’s new vaccine will need to have to be effective.

    The issues of vaccine injury, pathogenic priming, antibody dependent enhancement etc. are even more serious concerns that you should all look into before gaily rolling up your sleeves.

    Fortunately, for the vast majority of people SARS-Cov-2 is a nothing burger, In fact, for those under the age of 60, the mortality rate is lower than that of the flu.

    There has been a confluence of financial interests driving the fear – most notably vaccine manufacturers for whom this is their greatest business opportunity ever. And also for big tech who will seize on vaccine passports as a driver of profits.

    In the UK, the government has become the single largest advertise by $ spend – outspending the next largest (Unilever) by 50%. The media landscape is lapping up this gov. largess with very little criticism of their mass vaccine policy.

    Smile – you’ve been had!

  9. GM

    Fortunately, for the vast majority of people SARS-Cov-2 is a nothing burger, In fact, for those under the age of 60, the mortality rate is lower than that of the flu.

    Not true at all.

    Half of the survivors of SARS-1 never recovered and remain disabled forever. It will be the same with the long COVID cases, which are fewer as SARS-2 is generally milder, but they are still running at 5-10% in the under-60 cohort.

    Seasonal flu does not do that.

    And that’s after one round of COVID.

    In fact endemic COVID may well bring life expectancy back to what it a couple centuries ago, as people get progressively damaged from repeated reinfections, and eventually succumb to it long before their time.

    Again, seasonal flu does not do that.

    Young people should be looking at their encounters with COVID as spending those proverbial nine lives — the presentation will be variable every time you get it, and it’s quite possible it will be “mild” in the majority of the episodes, but it only takes one bad bout of it to cripple you for life, and after that it may well be just another one to finish you off (or a couple perhaps), and the probability of these things happening approaches 1.0 with the number of reinfections you go through in your life.

    And “returning to normal life” the way “normal life” was in 2019 means everyone catching COVID at least once every year

    All of that was known/anticipated based on the experience with the original SARS in 2003.

    Which is why China treats it like airborne plague every time it pops up in one of their cities — they think decades ahead there, not merely on time scales of a few months into the future as we do in the West.

  10. Plague Species

    The quantitative indicator of what you assert that supports your case is the DOW J. It’s 31,458 and rising amidst a raging pandemic. I have no doubt it will continue to rise amidst the nuclear holocaust to come and maybe even in the aftermath.

    You have to laugh at Christianity and its afterlife. Who wants to spend eternity with these malevolent creepy freaks we call the wealthy elite? Not me. I prefer to view death as an escape form them once and for all. Is it? I don’t know for sure, but I sure hope to hell it is. I despise these people this much. If I could move to another planet where they didn’t exist, I would. Absent that, I look forward to being released from their bloodsucking clenching grasp upon death.

  11. Plague Species

    The vaccination campaign is not where the real political COVID issue is. The ruling class simply decided that it is too inconvenient for them to adequately address the problem so they just let people die (which successfully convincing much of the population that it is in their best interest to get sick and die). That they engineered another massive transfer of wealth out of it was a nice bonus, but one does not have to posit that as the primary motivation and then explain everything else that happened as part of a grand conspiracy to do that.

    This is why I believe QAnon is the ruling class. Spread disinformation that COVFEFE-45 is a hoax so enough people will be skeptical thus spreading the virus further and wider.

  12. GlassHammer

    The most charitable defense I can muster is that our elected officials don’t understand certain concepts (supply chains, national vs. regional strategies, exponential growth, crisis management, etc…) that are necessary for getting this thing under control and that is due to the fact that we don’t select them to be elected officials based on those concepts.

  13. Plague Species

    We don’t select them period. They are selected for us. We vote for them, or some do at least. But select them? No.

  14. GlassHammer

    “We don’t select them period.”
    -Plague Species

    “We as a society” do select them but “you and I as atomized individuals don’t”.

  15. StewartM

    Ian—how would you then explain the eradication of smallpox?

    Not saying that we don’t have a system that rewards bad behaviors (electronics, anyone?) but there have been successes. I agree with you on the drug industry’s bad behavior (which is getting worse) in particular, but to add to the profiteering disincentive there’s also racism and also nationalism (“America First!!”; new toys for [rich] Americans trump life-saving medicines for brown people in developing countries in our spending priorities).

  16. S Brennan

    I don’t believe you can address SARS II [aka Covid] without addressing how this disease became universally global within a couple months of it jumping from the meat of bats to humans, that is…if you believe WHO, the National Security State [NSS] and the Ministry of Enlightenment [Media] bullshit story.

    Without addressing the risks of air travel, both public and particularly, private you could solve SARS II only to have to address SARS III and on and on. On one level, public air transport is easier to solve, proles generally accept health restrictions in their lives because they still carry within their being a sense of duty to others; on a different level we have private jets, which are in and of themselves, a badge of indifference to the suffering of others.

    In SARS II we clearly see the elite transmitting the disease through their use of private jets. The blue blood’s soiree in Connecticut, in which a number of our overlords got together for a week-end party using private jets and in turn spread the disease, through one infected member, to all and then, throughout the world is remarkable testament to selfish behavior.

    If we are to address, not just SARS II, but all communicable disease, we must 1] put into place hair trigger mechanisms that shut down air travel both public and PRIVATE. Because the vast majority of air travel is in the northern hemisphere, 2] we must especially diligent during the winter months when the vast majority of humans suffer vitamin D deficiency which compromises our immune systems. 3] There must be a compensation IN PLACE for airlines so that an economic loss for forcefully shutting down their revenue stream is tolerable. How to control the assholes who fly their private jets around the globe, often while touting environmental causes, I have no a clue, they seem immune to reason and science. 4] Finally, we must rid the nations medical response system of backstabbing political hacks like Fauci, who, for over forty years placed his personal welfare above all others. Had somebody competent at NIH strongly advised the then President that shutting down international air traffic and severely limiting domestic travel to/from areas without infection we would not have faced the loss of lives and economic dislocation we have, indeed, we would have bought 9 months or so.

    The case of four guys [one who knew he was sick] who, boarded a plane in New York City bound for New Orleans to party in the French quarter, at one point, accounted for 80% of the plus 100,000 or so cases on the Gulf Coast…is indicative the power of air travel…when combined with socipathic indifference that has become commonplace in western society. I have a hard time believing such wanton disregard would have gone unpunished in the FDRist America I grew up in.

  17. anon

    GM is correct that COVID-19 can take its toll even in asymptomatic cases:

    I know of people younger than 60 who have died or who were left with severe symptoms after having COVID-19. One of them can’t walk up stairs or across the hall without feeling out of breath. When COVID can make a formerly healthy young or middle aged person’s lungs worse than a smoker’s lungs, that is cause for concern that their lifelong health has been seriously affected and their life expectancy has been shortened by this virus. Like the 9/11 survivors who died of cancer a decade after the event, we won’t know how COVID-19 will affect younger people until more of them get to middle or elderly age a decade or two from now.

    As for Ian’s post, there is the combination of incompetence and greed. The pharmaceutical companies will want us to take a yearly vaccine for COVID-19 but there will likely never be a cure. The roll out is just incompetence on the part of the government.

  18. edmondo

    Tangentially related to the covid vaccine: There are 3 million people in Texas with no electricity as we read this. Isn’t the definition of a failed state one that can’t keep the lights on? We are exceptional all right – mostly in the amount of shit we are willing to eat while the elites stay warm.

  19. BC Nurse Prof

    There is a cure, but it is difficult to get authorities on board. The FLCCC people have been working for 10 months to get Ivermectin approved. The press release on their site now says:

    “the NIH has upgraded their recommen­da­tion and now considers ivermectin an option for use in COVID-19. Their recommendation has now been upgraded to the same level as those for widely used monoclonal antibodies & convalescent plasma, which is a “neither for nor against” recommen­da­tion.”

    The one page summary of the evidence for Ivermectin is here:

    The protocol for outpatient treatment is here:

    They have also developed a protocol for hospital treatment. Ivermectin is available at farm stores for de-worming animals. The FDA has issued a statement to discourage taking animal medicines. Then go to Amazon and read the comments under the syringes of horse wormer that are accompanied by a warning that if you take this you may die. The comments go something like this:

    “Thank heaven for this medicine. Don’t want to offend the warning label police! Follow the directions on the label regarding amount to be used based on weight, and your “horse” will be fine in a few days! *wink* The horse likes it with a cracker . One dose as soon as possible and a second dose 3 or 4 days later and that is all is needed. I shared the 6 pack with my friends who were also worried about their “horses”. Great insurance along with zinc, vitamin D and Vitamin C. I would like to thank Durvet and World4Pets for saving my life.”

    Be sure to take Zinc and D and C as well. Also, a high fat meal taken with the Ivermectin increases absorption. 12 mg of Ivermectin for a 130 pound person on Day 1 and again on Day 3. Repeat 2 weeks later. Calculate by weight. You can get injectable Ivermectin as well, in a sterile bottle. Calculate the dose, use a syringe to withdraw, then squirt it into a spoon and down the hatch.

    You’re welcome.

  20. Plague Species

    3 million people in Texas without electricity. Don’t you just love the smell of libertarianism in the morning? That invisible hand Adam Smith spoke about? Amputated, apparently, or perhaps Adam mistook a hammer for a hand.

  21. BC Nurse Prof

    Here is an open letter “to UK Prime Minister from Dr. Tess Lawrie. She is director of the Evidence Based Medicine Consultancy in Bath. Her business conducts industry independent medical evidence synthesis to support international clinical practice guidelines. Her biggest clients are the NHS and the WHO. She has recently authored a report called, ‘Ivermectin for preventing and treating Covid-19’. ”

    She is a member of FLCCC (Front Line Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance) in the U.K. This is the organization that publishes the protocol for out-patient and in-hospital treatment of Covid-19 that I referenced in my last comment.

    A new study in Peru, performed by another FLCCC member shows “Sharp Reductions in COVID-19 Case Fatalities and Excess Deaths in Peru in Close Time Conjunction, State-By-State, with Ivermectin Treatments” published Feb 11, 2021 in SSRN.

    A new video from FLCCC titled, “How actor Lou Gossett, Jr. survived COVID-19”

    It’s also on the FLCCC home page, but this copy on YouTube is clearer. Remember that you have to dose by weight and you must also take Zinc, vitamin D and vitamin C with it.

  22. BC Nurse Prof

    Furthermore, I have read (and can’t find it now) that for the COVID-19 long haulers, one dose of Ivermectin eliminates the symptoms completely.

  23. S Brennan

    I write this in SUPPORT of our kind BC Nurse, NOT criticism.

    Note: In the segment pasted, I self-censored a relevant paragraph in the article that talks of the previous similar efforts with “XYZ” due to the “McCarthism” of a few of our extremist commenters here whose political bias comes before all things, including peoples lives.

    – The fight against low-cost and highly effective Ivermectin has begun –

    “Dozens of studies and several meta-studies have already found low-cost ivermectin to be highly effective against covid. In January, even the US NIH had to change its stance from ‘negative’ to ‘neutral’. Detractors of ivermectin had to act, but they knew that this time, it wouldn’t be easy.

    [deleted paragraph]

    [I]t would be much more difficult to design a deceptive study against ivermectin.

    Finally, a ‘solution’ was found: US pharmaceutical company Merck – one of the manufacturers of patent-free Ivermectin – has just published a statement simply claiming, without evidence, that their (unpublished) “analysis” had identified “no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies; no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease; and a concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.”

    An NIH operative quickly retweeted the Merck statement, adding: “Merck’s statement on ivermectin is the leadership and commitment to quality translational science that we need to see from pharma/biotech.” In reality, Merck’s claim is completely baseless and also ironic: after having sold ivermectin for several decades without safety issues, Merck now suddenly questions its safety.

    Interestingly, Merck recently signed a $356 million deal to supply the US with a much more expensive, newly developed experimental anti-covid drug. Meanwhile, Youtube removed a C-SPAN video of FLCCC President Dr Pierre Kory’s US Senate testimony on ivermectin.

    The reality is this: a low-cost and highly effective drug against covid, like Ivermectin, would disrupt not only the multi-billion dollar global vaccine campaign (which does indeed lack long-term safety and efficacy data), but also follow-up ‘lock step’ policies like vaccine passports, smartphone-based global contact monitoring, as well as programs like ID2020 and ‘Known Traveler’ promoted by vaccine investor Bill Gates, the World Economic Forum, and similar groups.””

    I think Bill Gates, who has a direct conflict of interest, has been designated to perform a study against Ivermectin. Bill Gates sudden interest in Ivermectin is hard to explain in any other way…so be wary when he lends his “credibility” in the effort to trash another low cost treatment/prophylaxis

  24. BC Nurse Prof

    Yes, S Brennan, and the critique of Merck’s statement by FLCCC is here:

    Pretty definitive, I’d say.

    And the FLCCC response to the removal by YouTube of Dr. Kory’s Senate testimony is here:

    Also convincing. And damning.

  25. Hugh

    Re ivermectin from the NIH February 11, 2021 Covid-19 Treatment Guidelines:

    “There are insufficient data for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.

    Ivermectin has been shown to inhibit the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in cell cultures.13 However, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans.”

  26. BC Nurse Prof

    Yes, Hugh, and the answer to that is on the FLCCC website in the FAQ:

    “The theory that ivermectin’s anti-viral activity is dependent on unachievable tissue concentrations is incorrect as follows:

    1) In the cell culture study by Caly et al from Monash University in Australia, although very high concentrations of ivermectin were used, this was not a human model. Humans have immune and circulatory systems working in concert with ivermectin, thus concentration required in humans have little relation to concentrations used in a laboratory cell culture. Further, prolonged durations of exposure to a drug likely would require a fraction of the dosing in a short-term cell model exposure.

    2) There are multiple mechanisms by which ivermectin is thought to exert its anti-viral effects, with the least likely mechanism that of the blocking of importins as theorized in the Monash study above. These other mechanisms are not thought to require either supraphysiologic doses or concentrations and include

    a) competitive binding of ivermectin with the host receptor-binding region of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, limiting binding to the ACE-2 receptor;
    b) binding to the SARS-CoV-2 RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp), thereby inhibiting viral replication (Swargiary, 2020);
    c) binding/interference with multiple essential structural and non-structural proteins required by the virus in order to replicate.

    3) The theory that ivermectin would need supraphysiologic tissue concentration to be effective is most strongly disproven by the now 24 controlled clinical trials which used standard doses of ivermectin yet reported large clinical impacts in reducing rates of transmission, deterioration, and mortality.

  27. S Brennan

    BC Nurse, I am thankful for your efforts on behalf of all us who read this site…

    As you can see, the first of our “McCarthyite” extremist commenters has chimed in…one of those that I referenced when I said, “extremist commenters whose political adherence comes before all things, including peoples lives”.

    I had hoped to keep this off thread by using self-censorship but, apparently, that is not enough, only ABSOLUTE adherence to the USA’s pre-FDR gilded-age-economics and it’s attendant neocolonialism, is admissible. Our “minder” reminds us, the neoD/rumpR party line is the only acceptable thought one may have.

    And while we shouldn’t envy the dead, back in time, my Father, my Uncle fought the darkness that this extremist commenter represents and advocates for…they carried the burden of their service to their dying day, I only wish my service had the clarity of my father’s time.

  28. different clue

    Apparently it is still possible to get ivermectin for animals. I don’t know under what level of restriction.

    A briefest interweb search brought up THIS . . . .

    and THIS . . .

    Is there a way for humans who want to “do it themself” to use these ivermectins-for-animals?

    Also, and separately, I have read that part of why hydroxychloroquine with zinc before one is infected, or maybe even in very earliest stages of infection, is good is because hydroxychloroquine is an “ionophore” . . . . a facilitator of zinc cations getting through a cell membrane into a cell. I have read that green tea is also somewhat ionophoric. I can’t remember the supposed mechanism. Something about the organically-complexed natural fluorides in green tea?

  29. bruce wilder

    PS: We don’t select [our elected officials] period. They are selected for us. We vote for them, or some do at least. But select them? No.


    I remember once having a tour guide in China describe the surreal ritual of voting for local officials, most of whom he could not recognize by name. Sounded just like voting in Los Angeles.

    I also remember articles way back in 2019 commenting on how well Kamala Harris did in the Hamptons primary, the only primary where she won anything, but also the only one she needed to win.

    We the People do not enable leaders to make a living let alone careers out of representing us and our interests, the public interest, the commonwealth. It isn’t just politicians who are corrupted by the unwillingness to pay; it surrenders an independent media and academia as well to the billionaire class of neo-feudalists.

    As Ian says, the essential logic of the drug business is pretty obvious. The need for counterweights to greed are generally pretty obvious. But, it does not matter.

  30. S Brennan

    Good BC Nurse;

    In response to DC’s question: “Is there a way for a [horse] or [horses] to use Ivermectin? [appropriately]”

    I would ask to the above mentioned horse treatment of :

    “12 mg of Ivermectin for a 130lbs horse on Day 1 and again on Day 3. Repeat 2 weeks later.”

    Have the vets in your area related to you of a dose for a 260lbs horse so that we can interpolate between the two doses to make sure our horses are being treated correctly for foreign organisms?

    Such knowledge is, of course, hearsay but, since we are talking strictly about animal husbandry with all the risks to be incurred upon the livestock’s owner; I’d be curious and I think others might want to know as well ?

    With highest Regards…

  31. different clue

    Umm. . . yes.

    Interpolating upwards from the amount and timing of ivermectin to give a 200 lb. human for coronavid, how much and how-timed would one give ivermectin to a 1,000 lb horse if it was about to get coronavid, or had very earliest stage coronavid?

  32. BC Nurse Prof

    Yes, you can buy Ivermectin from any farm store. They probably have many different formulations of Ivermectin. Any will work, but they might not sell it to you if you tell them that you’re going to use it for humans. You will have to ask authoritatively for a syringe of Ivermectin paste for de-worming a horse.

    Go to their website first and find out what they have. Then decide what you want to buy and go in and buy it. Then read the label, so you can figure out how much Ivermectin is in each ml or cc or whatever.

    What you want to calculte is .2 mg of Ivermectin per kg of body weight. That works out to about, for example, 12 mg for a 130 pound person. The recommendation is here:

    Take a dose of this size on Day 1 and again on Day 3. Repeat both doses again in two weeks. Remember to keep taking vit D and vit C and especially zinc. The entire protocol is in that link.

    Any more questions?

  33. S Brennan

    Got it…and with gratitude…thanks

  34. BC Nurse Prof

    You are most welcome.

    To the health of your horse. Cheers!

  35. Hugh

    The FLCCC is not the NIH.

    From my previous NIH link, “The FDA issued a warning in April 2020 that ivermectin intended for use in animals should not be used to treat COVID-19 in humans.”

  36. different clue

    The FDA is probably right. It probably shouldn’t. I was only asking for a friend-of-mine’s horse.

    But if the vaccines all become worthless because the parade of ever-newer mutant virii outruns the cavalcade of ever newer vaccines, and no treatment exists upon which the FDA and CDC do not frown; then people with coronavid and no alternatives may be driven by desperation to give it a try.

    Pray none of them are reading this thread.

  37. Zachary Smith

    Hugh, the FDA is a political entity which takes guidance from politicians. Last year during the mask shortage there was this:

    Buzzfeed: The KN95 mask is a Chinese alternative to the scarce N95 mask, but the FDA refuses to allow it into the country.

    …By law, masks, along with most medical devices, can’t be imported or sold in the United States without the Food and Drug Administration’s say-so. Last week, to ease the national shortfall of protective gear, the FDA issued an emergency authorization for non-N95 respirators that had been certified by five foreign countries as well as the European Union. It conspicuously left the KN95 masks out of the emergency authorization.

    Wasn’t the Orange Politician yak-yaking against China a lot? I’d bet a pretty penny that a drug sold in a farm store is exactly the same one sold at the drug store. Especially if the drug store version is a generic.

    Hopefully any grungy disease I might acquire will be one a medical doctor can treat with approved methods and materials. If that turns out not to be the case, or if the needed materials aren’t available for some reason, I’d not hesitate to go with something sold for the cat, dog, or horse. With one foot in the grave, there wouldn’t be a whole lot to lose.

    And yes, it would be quite stupid to “play doctor” if there is any other option.

  38. Jeremy

    I have bought Ivermectin, Azithromycin and Budesonide Inhalers from here:

    Dirt cheap.

  39. edmondo

    In other news, Bill Gates daughter just got her first dose of the vaccine. She apparently belongs to that first group who needs the vaccine first: Seniors over 75 and children of billionaires.

    If this had happened under Trump I can hear the Hugh and cry coming out of the audience about special favors for Trump’s retinue” so I guess I will wait for the same under Biden.

  40. GlassHammer

    I don’t want to hammer on this too much but “we” i.e. the “sum of participants in a society” do chose leaders but “you and I within that larger sum of participants” do not chose leaders.

    Understanding “power” as it relates to “scale” is critically important in not only running a society but understanding how it even functions.

    And it is very odd that when it comes to “organizing” and “collective action” many here understand how the sum is more important than any individual part (because it is intuitively recognized that the part only has significant power within the sum) but…. the moment the larger group creates undesired outcomes many here assert that a.) they were never in the group (when they absolutely were) and b.) individual power should now be maximized because that will get them what they want (when it absolutely won’t).

    The TLDR version: You are responsible for both the good and bad in the society you live within, your individual power is very limited, and any collective power you create can still result in bad outcomes.

  41. Jason

    You are responsible for both the good and bad in the society you live within, your individual power is very limited, and any collective power you create can still result in bad outcomes.

    Nice summation. No wonder everyone’s so confused.

  42. Plague Species

    Slaves were responsible for the good and the bad of the society at the time. Good to know. Thanks for enlightening me. I’m sure white nationalists are happy to see this news. It wasn’t just them. It was the enslaved too. Same thing goes for the Jews in Europe during WWII. They were responsible for the Nazis and what the Nazis did to them every bit as much as the Nazis were responsible and the Good Germans.

  43. Hugh

    Plague Species, a lot of this come from Rousseau’s Social Contract. He understood that it was a thought experiment: a what if a bunch of fully formed people with amnesia came together. What kind of society would they form? With equality of state and status, a common level of responsibility makes sense. But as you point out, in the real world, we are disempowered. Inequality is massive, and the responsibility lies with those with the power, not us.

  44. GlassHammer

    “Slaves were responsible for the good and the bad of the society at the time.” – Plague Species

    -Yeah antebellum slaves and full citizens in 2021 are exactly the same. What an excellent point. Boy you sure showed me what’s what.

    “Thanks for enlightening me. I’m sure white nationalists are happy to see this news. It wasn’t just them. It was the enslaved too.” – Plague Species

    -People can be uncharitable in discussions others just lie about what you say and fling garbage at you. Glad to know which group I can sort you into.

  45. Plague Species

    Thanks for your response, Hugh, and thank you for understanding my point and elaborating on it.

    Glass, slaves were part of a society as were the European Jews. You specifically stated that by virtue of being in a society, you therefore have culpability regardless of individual power within that society.

    The slaves and the European Jews were participants. In the case of the former, yes, of course, they were coerced involuntary participants but participants they were. I would argue that the dispossessed and disenfranchised amongst us, of which there are many and the ranks are growing, are also coerced involuntary participants who have no say in who is selected as candidates for whom to vote.

    Who Rules America is an excellent multi-part documentary about this “society” of which you speak. I would argue it is not a society. It’s more like a psychical gulag with baubles.

  46. ProNewerDeal

    Jeremy, what is your opinion of the non-mRNA vaccines?

    In the UK, you will either now or within a few months be able to take the Adenovirus Viral Vector type vaccine from Oxford/AstraZeneca.

    Presumably a Protein Subunit type like Novavax may also become available during 2021. Not sure if an Inactived Virus type vaccine like China’s SinoVac CoronaVac will be available in a Western nation during 2021.

    Is your view to avoid ANY vaccines under EUA, as opposed to the traditional vaccine approval process, & take Ivermectin as Prophylaxis until a non-MRNA vaccine does pass the traditional vaccine approval process in say 2023?

  47. GlassHammer

    “Inequality is massive, and the responsibility lies with those with the power, not us.” – Hugh

    Did everyone just acquiesce to their rule because no one else wanted to?

    No, they lead larger coalitions of other groups who act through them as an agent working on their behalf. The individual people in those groups, especially those further down in the hierarchy only have the power the group creates not power on an individual/personal level.
    (It should be obvious that no member of the group has power equal to or greater than the group because….THE GROUP WOULDN’T NEED TO EXIST IF THAT WAS TRUE.)

    Yes most of us in the U.S. have very small amounts of power that can only be magnified if combined with others….. lots of others… and even then it won’t yeild positive results for many of the participants because that is what being part of the group entails. (All you get is a chance for improved conditions not a guarantee but individual atomized action gives you a far worse chance.)

    And it shouldn’t be controversial to say most of us have some responsibility in the actions of our society.

  48. GlassHammer

    ” I would argue that the dispossessed and disenfranchised amongst us, of which there are many and the ranks are growing, are also coerced involuntary participants who have no say in who is selected as candidates for whom to vote.” Plague Species

    They wouldn’t spend the God Damn time and energy coercing people and collecting them if both the collective AND it’s God Damn component individuals had zero power to take.

    The power is small at the individual level but still present otherwise grouping them to harness power wouldn’t work. So yes individuals have next to know power but collections of them do which every leader already knows.

    But having some small power means you do share some small responsibility for the God DaMN outcomes the group creates.

  49. Jeremy


    I’d rather not get a vaccine at all. I feel that, like everybody I know who got the virus, I would recover from it with a natural immunity to future infections. And IVM with Azithromycin would help.

    However, it seems as if vaccine passports are coming without which life could become difficult:

    I’d rather have the Sinopharm or Sinovac vaccine:

  50. Jason

    The antebellum slaves and the “European Jews” are in no way analogous and it’s absurd to pretend they are. The slaves never had any power and didn’t own any land or assets. There were Jewish financiers in Europe during that time period for goodness’ sake. Please wake up.

    This is not to deny the horrors that were visited upon everyday Jews during that time period. It’s obvious, however, that the two groups aren’t the same. The slaves can be spoken of as much more of a monolithic group as far as their ability, or lack thereof, to participate in the wider society. “The Jews” situation as regarded the wider society cannot be easily reduced to such a monolith, though their elites would like everyone to believe it can be.

    Consider that there was active coordination between the Jewish Zionists and the Nazis in the “creation” of Israel in Palestine. The antebellum slaves had no leaders on par with the wealthy, militaristic Jewish leaders, who somehow managed to drive out the indigenous population of another land to set up their own ethnic-supremacist state all while being massively oppressed in Europe. Name me the black equivalent. Or any equivalent, for that matter. There is none.

  51. Plague Species

    The slaves never had any power and didn’t own any land or assets.

    That’s not what Glass says. Many so-called “participants” in today’s society don’t have any land or assets either, but plenty of debt which is a form of bondage in and of itself unless you;re wealthy like Fat McDonald Trump and never have to pay it back.

    They wouldn’t spend the God Damn time and energy coercing people and collecting them if both the collective AND it’s God Damn component individuals had zero power to take.

    How about all those folks on skid row in Los Angeles and every city for that matter? Are they just thumbing their nose at their potential collective power? Are they blind to their collective bootstraps?

  52. S Brennan

    How fortunate we are to have a resident quisling;

    Hugh above, accidentally reminds us that the efficacy of Ivermectin as an effective treatment and a prophylaxis was well known early in the SARS II [Covid] pandemic. Ivermectin was one of the anti-virals being touted by doctors in the middle/end of March. The result was the ban all use of anti-virals by NIH/WHO/FDA/AMA, fortunately, since the election of Biden the bans are being lifted by these agencies and NGO’s and many lives are now being spared that would have otherwise been sacrificed if Biden wasn’t declared the President in the early hours of 03 NOV 2020.

    Had Ivermectin, alongside other anti-viral treatments been advocated for instead of being banned…in favor of a “silver bullet”, a vaccine, approximately 75% of those who died would be alive today and those that got deathly ill would have been spared long-term medical conditions and bills that will eat away at their financial security throughout their life.

    Way back in the eighties, Fauci pulled the same stunt with AIDS/HIV, he began promising an AIDS/HIV vaccine back in 1984 and continued to do so through countless colossal failures, the last one being in 2019. I think there were six major attempts and billions spent while anti-viral were ignored and millions died.

    But back then, a lot of gay men wouldn’t put with Fausci’s bullshit…and yes, Fauci tried to get his hacks in the press to blame Reagan exclusively…and yes, Reagan, like Trump was not medically trained and yes, neither were match for Fauci’s “medical” bullshit. Fortunately, we now have Biden/Harris both of whom are recognized the world over for their medical expertise and Fauci has said his delighted that the election produced such a erudite couple.

    But I digress, as I said above, gay men wouldn’t put with Fauci’s bullshit, they hounded him until Fauci was forced to give anti-viral treatment, [at least to the most vocal leaders] in order to get away from the negative spotlight of presiding over more than a half a million US deaths in a genocide that…nobody seems to recall.

    This is very unlike today, where another segment of society is being genocided off the face of the earth to, silent acceptance or, to the applause of many of the commenters here…well..unless it serves their purpose of touting the politics of our nations’ co-joined twins, neoD’s & rumpR’s. Indeed, many observers here have studiously ignored another colossal failure of Fauci; even though it’s repeating, almost to the letter, his “mistakes” in the early eighties. Instead of fault being laid at the feet of our national medical leaders to take reasonable steps, we see a president being blamed for not having enough of a background in virology to override the idiotic decisions made at the highest level of the medical establishment.

    And after reading the Time Magazine article, where “leaders” across the country proudly brag that they used the SARS II pandemic to oust Trump…I feel using phrase “the idiotic decisions by the medical establishment” is being far more than generous.

    What happened to the liberal mind, the use of reason, scientific inquiry in this post-FDRist world? Yeah, I understand to many politics is job one, to them, getting rid of Trump takes precedence over the lives millions…yeah..yeah, I get it…Trump=Hitler.

    I think it’s fair to say that Trump Derangement Syndrome [TDS] has claimed more lives, at least since 07 May 1945, than any other political disease.

  53. different clue

    Off thread but . . .

    . . . Much of the mid-southern and southern US is going to get 10 degrees or colder Fahrenheit tonight. Many houses there are not built to withstand such cold. Here’s a way to lower the chance of having your pipes freeze and maybe burst.

    Turn a cold water faucet on to a slow dripping trickle and leave it running while temperatures are at or under 10 degrees. Do the same with a hot water faucet. Running water is much harder to freeze than still water.

    If the heating still works in your house, turn up the heat to about 76 degrees or so and leave it there till the Cold Emergency passes.

  54. Dale Almond

    Wear wool clothing if you have it. It is hard to find 100% wool in the United States anymore, but there are companies in the UK and Ireland that sell wonderful wool sweaters, and often blankets and throws. Wool retains heat while releasing moisture, unlike cotton that will absorb moisture and stay wet. This is especially true for socks. Dress in layers – optimally a soft wool undershirt, a wool or cashmere turtleneck (or two) and a heavy wool sweater on top. Those of you who have not updated your closet in years may have wool pants and trousers hiding there. Wear them! Dig out those old army blankets, if you have them. And don’t forget a wool cap and wool socks when you sleep.

  55. Gaianne

    Ian–I really like the way you will say the obvious concisely and directly. This is rare and good. Thank you very much.


  56. Astrid

    I doubt that they have a thoroughly thought through Bond Villain process, but who is going to go against something that’s been so profitable to their short term prospects? The societal cost may be exponentially greater, but that’s never stopped them before.

    I saw a NC link that 40 percent of Palestinians in Israel have COVID antibodies. Funny how this doesn’t get any MSM coverage while they continue to publish Uighur and Navalny stories sourced from known liars supported by USAID and such. In a few hundred years, if human civilization continues, Zionism may well be spoken of in the same manner as Nazism and Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

  57. Zotter

    Except that the covid virus mutates about 1/4 of the speed of the flu virus, pretty much knocking it out of the “seasonal” sickness category. By its nature, it just doesn’t mutate fast enough to outrun a vaccine (especially one that is updated.)

  58. Astrid

    Seriously, you have something from April 2020, back when probably less than a million people have had it, and extrapolate that mutation rate is one quarter that of flu. With a basis of hundreds and millions or billions of infections, that mutation rate would go up to what? What an completely waste of 2 minutes of browsing time!

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