The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

AOC Is Right About Hawley and Cruz & America Is A Coup-able State

Hawley and Cruz encouraged the January 6th riot.

That riot put AOC and other Congresspeople and staff’s life at risk. They were lucky to escape. We know that one rioter was texted that Congress had fled to the basement and that he was to turn on the gas and kill them.

It was a coup attempt. Because Trump is incompetent and tends to hire incompetents (with a few rare exceptions), the coup failed. The army wasn’t onside, only a few cops were willing to help, and so on. The best the coupsters could do is make sure that the outnumbered cops weren’t reinforced by more police or by the national guard.

Anyway, if AOC had been caught by the crowd, the best she could hope for was a beating. The crowd wanted to kill Pence, their own VP, as a traitor and AOC has been far more vilified than that. A beating would be the best case, death after some horrible abuse is the more likely case.

So AOC is right, and since she understands, correctly, that Hawley and Cruz and some others were part of making the riot/coup happen, she doesn’t want to work with them. After all, they did something that could easily have gotten her beaten, raped and/or dead.

It is also true that since there have been no consequences for those who aided, planned and abetted the coup attempt, just for the suckers they used, so there may be another one in the future. She is correct about that also.

What is not true is that this is particularly new: my judgment is that Bush Jr. could have pulled off a successful coup, he just chose not to. He would have had the military onside, and while he was personally suffering from some sort of brain damage, he had many subordinates who were, in their own narrow ways, competent. They knew how the bureaucracy and power works, and were brilliant at making it do what they wanted. The 2000 election was unquestionably stolen, and that was a coup without the theatrics.

America’s met the social conditions for coups for some time now.

In the present, however, it is also true that Cruz and Hawley; Hawley in particular, remain possible votes for things that AOC will want passed. Hawley pushed $2,000 checks hard.

Some of what Hawley wants done will help AOC’s constituents avoid poverty or death. This is a conundrum, and it is best answered by accepting their votes but not letting them take lead if at all possible. Hawley wants to be President, and AOC doesn’t want a man complicit in a riot/coup that could have killed her to have that sort of power. This is reasonable.

What happened January 6th was serious. It is not best answered the way that our political elites are answering it, with an increased security state which will not work when the threat is, as the horror movie line runs, “inside the house.”

But those who are mocking AOC for her fear and for her determination to not work with those who encouraged Jan 6th are missing the actual danger she was in. The protestors beat a cop to death, who they had nothing personally against. They’ve been indoctrinated to hate AOC.

And AOC is right that people who face no consequences for a coup, may well try again if they see no other way to get what they want.

But the problem is too far gone. The correct response is to expel those members and Senators involved, but since Congress operates on an entirely partisan basis, with no actual institutional or democratic loyalty, that is not possible.

This is part of why I say the US is in a pre-coup state: that the conditions are met. The responses required to remove the conditions are not possible.

In the meantime, there is a crisis, and it will be used, as all crises are, to do what those who actually have power wanted before anything happened: crack down on the internet, increase police state powers and so on.

And the abuse of the population, by both parties, will continue, until an elite faction does manage a coup, using the resentment that Democrats and Republicans have built and earned over the years as fuel, OR until America finds a way to be good to the majority of its population.

All the content here is free, but subscriptions and donations do help, a lot.


Biden Is Determined To Lose Congress In 2022


Default to Kindness


  1. Plague Species

    Fair points, Ian, but she needs to talk to her boss, Joe Biden and the party leadership and do something about it. Talk is cheap. It’s time to walk the talk.

  2. cobrakai

    Now she has a tiny taste of what people in countries dominated by America feel. Maybe she should re-think her support for Guaido and other fascists.

  3. Mr Jones

    In the present, however, it is also true that Cruz and Hawley; Hawley in particular, remain possible votes for things that AOC will want passed. Hawley pushed $2,000 checks hard.

    Some of what Hawley wants done will help AOC’s constituents avoid poverty or death. This is a conundrum, and it is best answered by accepting their votes but not letting them take lead if at all possible. Hawley wants to be President, and AOC doesn’t want a man complicit in a riot/coup that could have killed her to have that sort of power. This is reasonable.


    But the problem is too far gone.


    So here we are.

  4. Mrs Smith

    Thank you Mr Jones. That was enlightening.

  5. Joan

    The media, especially Fox, has done a lot to whip up hatred toward AOC, resulting in her getting death threats on social media on the regular, despite direct threats of violence not being covered by freedom of speech. If I were her I’d have a bodyguard nearby at all times. If she has the money, she should sue those media outlets if there’s legal grounds for it.

    It also doesn’t matter whether she gets absorbed by the normie Dems; she’s still being scapegoated by Fox for being an extremist. I guess one could make the argument that she might as well embrace her outsider status and help her constituency, but in her place I’d retire from politics and disappear.

  6. Jason

    but in her place I’d retire from politics and disappear.

    Her psyche won’t allow that.

    You’d never be in her place because you’re sane and grounded.

  7. Keith Werner

    There’s a allegation against AOC being manufactured right now on the reactionary side of Twitter, that AOC has claimed that she was in the Capitol Building itself when the rioters broke in, rather than in her own office (where she recounts hiding in the bathroom from someone she took at the moment to be a rioter). This gets spun to portray her as manipulative liar who’s trying to play the victim, but only deserves open mockery for feeling endangered that day.
    It’s really gross to see. BTW, if anyone has a link to video or a quote where AOC actually does state that she was in the Capitol Building itself when the rioters broke in, I’d love to see it. So far, I have not seen it.

  8. William Church

    I had to double check to see if this was a Mandos post or not.

    Coup. You keep using that word…. I am not sure it means what you think it means.

    Do you REALLY believe that Cruz and Hawley (and even Trump) tried to initiate ” a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power ” from the soon to be sworn in Biden administration. REALLY? And that they believed that this would actually work and they wouldn’t either start a civil war or be taken to prison after it inevitable failed? That a disorganized, unarmed, grab-assed group led by some lunatic in a buffalo horn helmet was truly trying to take over the US government.. If you actually do believe that you are further gone than I thought.

    And incidentally I respect what AOC has done. And I like that she is of a completely different stripe than our current crop of politicos. Even if I do disagree with her a lot. But honestly, what she did in her vid was embarrassing. Shattering even. She was in no danger.

    I’ve long held that no one should be allowed to hold national political office until you have been in a fist fight…. that you lost. This type of unhinged response is yet another thing that reinforces this view.


  9. Keith Werner

    I agree with Joan’s comment that AOC should have a bodyguard nearby at all times. The House should pay for one while she’s on official business.

  10. Robert Chapel

    I’ve long held that no one should be allowed to hold national political office until you have been in a fist fight…. that you lost. This type of unhinged response is yet another thing that reinforces this view.

    Fascinating. I think AOC won the only fight she was ever in as a child, so that would lend credence to your theory. Of course, it wasn’t a fist fight, rather it was more of a glorified skirmish with a lot of pushing and slapping. I don’t think closed fists were involved.

  11. Plague Species

    How long until we have a mass shooting during a session of Congress? It’s within reach. Maybe Marjorie will snap and mow a bunch of them down. What then? Brennan & Co. will downplay it and marginalize it and say it was the Dems fault.

    Speaking for myself, I mostly ignore AOC. She’s an ankle-biting chihuahua for the Dems. Her job is to trade barbs and wrangle with the lowly wacko conservatives. She does it well. I can’t take her seriously about this when her own party doesn’t take it seriously, meaning they won’t prosecute McDonald Trump and they won’t hold the influential wealthy enablers of January 6th accountable, i.e. the Mercers.

  12. Hugh

    There is no bottom to Trump. And as many commenters here show, his bet on the American people is most of them have no bottom either. So he can stage an attempted coup in his usual half-_ssed fashion based on the “don’t believe your lying eyes” lunacy that he won an election he lost. In the violence he, his accomplices, and followers created, some people get killed, many others are threatened, and the country’s reputation gets flushed down the toilet, again. So what is the response of Trump and his minions? It didn’t happen, and even if it did, it’s not their fault, the fault is entirely on their victims, and oh, the election was still stolen.

    This is what fascism looks like. We need to call it out. Trump is a fascist. So are his followers. So are his defenders. There is this myth in America that there are no fascists here, the only country in the world without them. And as long as we refuse to call our fascists what they are, they will feel free to say our elections aren’t real elections unless they win them, they aren’t plotting a coup when they are, and if anything bad happens, it’s a hoax, definitely not their fault, we made them do it. It’s like an abusive marriage, and as we see, so many commenters are willing to defend and cheer this fascist madness on.

  13. The Number Six

    I can’t take her seriously about this when her own party doesn’t take it seriously, meaning they won’t prosecute McDonald Trump and they won’t hold the influential wealthy enablers of January 6th accountable, i.e. the Mercers.

    Ah, the Mercers. Let’s name names. I’ve been watching “Yves Smith” over at NakCap go out of her way the past few days to immediately discredit any theorizing about Mossad involvement with the Apollo/Leon Black affair. She of course has no compunction in offering her own unverified theories of the events. Her speculations are more rational, because she says so.

  14. Ché Pasa

    I watched maybe forty minutes of AOC’s ex tempore Instagram presentation, and, as it appeared not to be scripted at all, it was for me a confusing muddle. She was trying to present her memories of the events of Jan 6 and the days leading up the insurrection, but as people do, her time sequences weren’t linear, so it was sometimes hard to follow what happened where and when. This is no doubt how the rightist media is making her out to be a liar and fabulist.

    From what I could gather, yes she was in physical danger repeatedly in the days leading up to the insurrection. She was in danger at the Capitol and in her own neighborhood where she was in direct contact with or the presence of various Trumpists in town for the festivities. As I understood it, she was in her office in one of the House office buildings (not in the Capitol) when the ruckus got real. Ordering lunch? Well, anyway, she had already been prepped to expect violence and here it was. The rioters were in the Capitol, Members had fled and were hiding out in various undisclosed locations including the office buildings, ostensibly “safe” but no one knew where, when or whether the mob would make their way beyond the Capitol in their hunt for victims to string up.

    No one hiding out in the office buildings knew they would be safe. After all, could anyone be sure of the loyalties of the security officers? I think not.

    AOC was clearly triggered by all of this. Arguably still is.

    To misperceive what happened as “not a coup attempt” and to pretend that Members were not in danger is comforting but not realistic. It may have been a half-assed attempt, but it was real, and golpistas learned plenty of lessons which they will no doubt apply next time — which may come much sooner than later.

    Next time, there won’t be a mob to deal with. A key discovery, for example, is that the Capitol is so poorly defended (on Jan 6, effectively not defended at all for hours) that under a hundred well-trained and lightly equipped individuals working as a team can easily take over the seat of government. Easily. They might have to fight to hold it, but possibly not. Not when they have inside help.

    Think Maidan. A rotted and hollowed out government with many enemies on the inside can fall in a twinkling, and it doesn’t take much to push it over.

    For that matter, think any Color Revolution ever.

    There may be months of mass demonstrations, but they’re primarily theatre while the real work of overthrowing the government goes on behind the scenes. And when the government falls, it seems sudden, unexpected, astonishing. No, as a rule, the whole thing is carefully plotted out and executed.

    And it doesn’t take majority support or even close to one for these revolution/coups to succeed.

    Who will be first against the wall when they succeed in the US? AOC? Nancy? Kamala? Old Joe?

  15. S Brennan

    Ian, as politely as I can say this; you are losing your grip* but, more importantly, you are, and have in the past…encouraged violence from those who listen to you. You are not innocent of what you seek to have punished in others. Indeed, most of the serious charges the protestors have are for what they said online. Be careful what you wish for.

    There was no coup.
    Well, there was one that you supported, it lasted over four years, your side won.
    [your polite applause here]

    There was no insurrection.
    Well, there was one that you supported, it lasted over four years and your side won.
    [your polite applause here]

    What you claim a “coup”, an “insurrection” was just a few agent provocateurs leading a few gullible goofballs. Before going further down the road to perdition I suggest you do what good Americans are supposed to do, wait for a trial. My bet is that the National Security State has no interest in the protesters being given a platform to speak at a trial, nor in having the agents provocateurs revealed, the protesters will be given very lenient terms to plead guilty or the charges dismissed entirely.

    Ian; You are Canadian, in Canada and right now, your words are useful to the National Security State but, they have a nasty habit of turning patsies into whipping boys. At some point the neoDs will have gotten everything out of this that they can. When the music ends and the denunciations, the show trials are finally over…somebody will have to be blamed for the mess…make sure you’re safely in your seat.

    *Remember the Kavanaugh protests…they entered the Rotunda and surrounded senators offices to your polite applause. Have you forgotten..that was just two short years ago?

  16. Will

    Robert: And I’m not saying that just because it would make me truly qualified to be President. :p

    These people were acting out… in a way that I am surprised didn’t lead to a lot of unfortunate loss of life. A lot of it was echo chamber related I believe. Man, some of that “the Italians… errrr the Chinese… yeah it was the Chinese! Or the CIA, they hate Trump. It was them! They hacked our voting machines!” stuff was Roswell alien spaceship crazy. And they repeated it so much they believed it.

    Kind of a hold my beer moment for the crazy right after listening to the crazy left babble on about “Russia!” for 4 years.

    I must admit, for someone who has preached the gospel about the dangers of mass surveillance like Ian has? And to see what a pretext this incident has become? I must admit I am a bit surprised by the tone of this article.

    I think the whole nation needs to get outside and clear their heads. Get some exercise and quit obsessing about this kind of stuff. I hate to say it but I don’t think people who live on the ‘net realize how crazy this stuff sounds to those of us who take our ‘net in small doses.

    This nation has unfortunately adopted the Twitter-mob method of debate. It’s a bad fit.


  17. Purple Library Guy

    This whole thing was ultimately a form of blowback. US authorities and their instruments (NED and various other somewhat more deniable outfits), and indeed the US media, have grown used to making up baseless allegations that elections are fraudulent . . . abroad, in places the US wants to destabilize. And they have gotten very good at arranging “Colour Revolutions”–propagandizing local populations, helping to organize and arm extremist groups, pushing them into the streets at a flashpoint, having some cadre storm the legislative buildings and take over. The US establishment is used to doing all this stuff to get what it wants.

    So this kind of thing has become one of the “ideas that’s floating around” in America for American elites to put into their toolkit LOCALLY to get what they want. Trump’s just the first one to actually do it. Trump’s term was perhaps the first time that the polity/economy was sufficiently unstable to create what looked like a sufficient critical mass of discontented dupes to get the job done. Turns out it wasn’t actually sufficient and Trump was too incompetent, and arguably too CAREFUL, to organize them to actually try to take government (I know “careful” isn’t a word normally associated with Trump, but the man skated the edge of calling for a lot of stuff without ever actually quite saying it, and he seems to have largely left them to organize themselves, with the result that although they can impeach him since that has no real legal standards of what it takes to do it, I don’t think there’d be a hope of putting him in jail for an actual insurrection-related crime).

    But that general idea is still floating around and I see no signs of the general trend towards greater inequality, and more precarity for most of the public, reversing. Next time the mob could be bigger, angrier, and incited by someone who actually pushes all their chips in to organize them and really tell them to take government. If it happens, it will in part be a result of US behaviour in the international arena coming home to roost, US political actors in essence treating domestic political opposition the way they treat international political opposition.

  18. Hugh

    Comment in mod.

    Nice to see all the fascist Trump defenders out. He kills hundreds of thousands of Americans with his covid non-response, loses an election, and starts an insurrection. Their conclusion? Must be AOC’s fault. Almost nobody died from covid, or if they did, they were really old and on their way out anyway, so no great loss. Trump really won the election. Cruz and Hawley were defending your FREEDOM, and fascists don’t exist in America. And black and brown people should not be allowed to vote. Certainly not enough to affect an election.

  19. Willy

    Most Trumpists I know (I know many, personally) are closet dominionists. Before that they were Founding Father fetishists with a bit of dominionist in them. As their numbers, and thus power, slowly shrinks, they’ll become more open about their wanting a God-inspired authoritarianism that’ll restore America to its rightful Old Testament ways. As always in proto-fascist movements, I can’t imagine any such coup leader not currying favor with those people, besides the usual corporate power creatures. Cruz seems like too much of an oily car salesman. Hawley seems more on that ball.

  20. Willy

    Just because Trump/Russia got overblown by the “I’m With Her”s, doesn’t mean Trump didn’t admire Putin’s style of governance or was incapable of using them for his own power and control ends. He did after all, use prosperity gospel scamvangelist nutjobs. Have you ever seen Trump at church, besides that time with the upside down bible and surrounded by troops?

  21. anon

    This goes back to yesterday’s post. AOC would not need to work with Hawley if members of her own party did not renege on their promise to give Americans $2000 checks. If AOC were serious about $2000 checks and universal health care, she should also attack Biden, Pelosi, and other Democrats who have made achieving these goals impossible. If she and the Squad don’t have the guts to go against the power players in their party, their only option is to work with right wing populists to achieve some of those goals. When 2024 rolls around, unfortunately, someone like Hawley will benefit from these achievements because Biden will have done nothing.

  22. Willy

    On the plus, Biden is removing Trumps “progressive” anti-union labor department picks.

    Biden already fired their corporatist lawyer leader, Peter Robb, whose labor expertise included helping Reagan bust the Air Traffic Controller union. I’m unfamiliar with his replacement, Peter Ohr. Hopefully he’s not a closet neoliberal. Around here they’re considered far worse than those openly worker-hostile types.

  23. Plague Species

    I’ve seen enough already to refrain from voting in 2022 and 2024. This last election, my vote actually mattered. It will matter again in 2022 and 2024 and I refuse to vote for these dirty lying creeps. Unlike Brennan, I will not vote for the fascist opposition but I do agree with him that the Dems are just as fascist considering they are handing it to the fascists which makes them complicit which makes them fascists.

  24. Willy

    Comment in mod, the one about Biden’s changes to Trumps labor department.

    While Trump was incorrigible, Biden seems less covert than he is labile. This means that if you punch him down, he’ll likely stay in that position for a while. Trump would just bounce back up like a bozo bag and lie some more.

  25. DMC

    If this was a coup attempt, it was a mighty half-assed one. Call it the revolt of the Underpants Gnomes. 1. Seize the Capitol. 2. ???. 3. Emperor Donald, the first of his name. The investigation for this incident has so far pointed the finger of blame largely at the Proud Boys, whose leader just happens to be a major FBI informant. The cheap histrionics of the people shouting “COUP!” ever since Election Day over every bit of Trump’s desperate flailing about as he sank into the quick sand of his own making has become truly annoying. Look at Myanmar. THAT’S a COUP! They had a plan and the power to execute that plan. Not just street theater gotten somewhat out of control And I am writing this NOT out of any sort of affection for Trump. I am perfectly aware that he breaks the mold when it comes to self-serving and sheer incompetence. Its more out of incredulity that normally sane and intelligent people fall into spittle flecked hysteria when it comes to Trump. I’m with W. Church up thread. It’s not that we find Trump anything other than loathsome, we just want some clear eyed, SOBER analysis, something apparently in short supply.

  26. nihil obstet

    In 2000, the Republicans pulled off a successful coup. Gore won the election, even with much of the illegal voter stripping that the Republican candidate’s brother and his administration had carried out. However, party loyalists were flown in from Washington to stop the vote (remember, Kavanaugh was one of them), just as this mob used violence to stop the legal recognition of the Electoral College vote. When they needed the vote not just to stop but to be declared over with their candidate ahead, the Supreme Court stepped in to declare the Republican victory. And the neo-Con gang from Nixon through Reagan and Bush I returned to rule for Bush II. The 2000 coup was the inspiration and blueprint for this attempt. That was 20 years ago. To the 70+ generation, it’s like yesterday.

    To stop the next coup or coup attempt, there must be consequences for the instigators. There will not be

  27. Hugh

    anon, since your position is that Hawley benefits from everything, how does he benefit from pushing the insurrection? How does he benefit from losing his book deal, part of his national roll out, and financial backers? And why has he been MIA since Jan. 6?

  28. GlassHammer

    Maybe…..maybe our elected officials should be allowed to have a firearm in federal buildings.

  29. Hugh

    So DMC, if one of your neighbors pours out gasoline, throws a match on it, and your house burns down, you are willing to call that arson, but if your house survives, you are willing to say, “No harm, no foul,” until your neighbor succeeds. Of course, in this case, people did die. So I guess my question is how many people have to die or be threatened for it to be significant enough to you.

    A stupidity or idiot defense has been notoriously unsuccessful in the courts. However, Trump will beat his impeachment trial because of corrupt, cowardly Republicans. His being a stupid, inept criminal will have nothing to do with it.

  30. Hugh

    Willy, Peter Sung Ohr is pro-union and, in his most well known case, as Chicago Regional Director, ruled Northwestern University football players could unionize.

  31. Plague Species

    Good example, Hugh, and extending that example, wagging your finger like a scornful librarian isn’t going to prevent the hellbent arsonist from eventually burning your house down, is it?

  32. edmondo

    AOC has repeatedly voted to send 18 year olds to the Middle East to get maimed and mentally fucked up. If she feels unsafe – and so much of this is drama – she used to take the subway home at 4AM when she was a bartender – then maybe she ought to quit. Sher only votes the way Nancy tells her to anyway. Adios Ms. Obama Number 2.

  33. S Brennan

    Trump’s Puppet master speaks. The world’s most evil man, now that has been disposed of..the second most evil man uncloaks and reveals his malevolent plans for planet earth. Once you read Putin’s desires you will recoil in horror and plea for a divine intervention to stop this man! I tell ‘ya, Putin’s the next Hitler or…is that gonna be Tulsi Gabbard? I wish the people at the DNC would hurry-up and make up my mind for me ’cause we can’t have two Hitlers at once or…can we?

    Excerpted from b at MOA

    “I would like to point out four key priorities, as I see them. This might be old news, but since Klaus has allowed me to present Russia’s position, my position, I will certainly do so.

    First, everyone must have comfortable living conditions, including housing and affordable transport, energy and public utility infrastructure. Plus environmental welfare, something that must not be overlooked.

    Second, everyone must be sure that they will have a job that can ensure sustainable growth of income and, hence, decent standards of living. Everyone must have access to an effective system of lifelong education, which is absolutely indispensable now and which will allow people to develop, make a career and receive a decent pension and social benefits upon retirement.

    Third, people must be confident that they will receive high-quality and effective medical care whenever necessary, and that the national healthcare system will guarantee access to modern medical services.

    Fourth, regardless of the family income, children must be able to receive a decent education and realise their potential. Every child has potential.

    This is the only way to guarantee the cost-effective development of the modern economy, in which people are perceived as the end, rather than the means. Only those countries capable of attaining progress in at least these four areas will facilitate their own sustainable and all-inclusive development. These areas are not exhaustive, and I have just mentioned the main aspects.

    A strategy, also being implemented by my country, hinges on precisely these approaches.

    What should be done globally:

    We are open to the broadest international cooperation, while achieving our national goals, and we are confident that cooperation on matters of the global socioeconomic agenda would have a positive influence on the overall atmosphere in global affairs, and that interdependence in addressing acute current problems would also increase mutual trust which is particularly important and particularly topical today.

    Obviously, the era linked with attempts to build a centralised and unipolar world order has ended. To be honest, this era did not even begin. A mere attempt was made in this direction, but this, too, is now history. The essence of this monopoly ran counter to our civilization’s cultural and historical diversity.

    The reality is such that really different development centers with their distinctive models, political systems and public institutions have taken shape in the world. Today, it is very important to create mechanisms for harmonizing their interests to prevent the diversity and natural competition of the development poles from triggering anarchy and a series of protracted conflicts.

    To achieve this we must, in part, consolidate and develop universal institutions that bear special responsibility for ensuring stability and security in the world and for formulating and defining the rules of conduct both in the global economy and trade…”

    Pure evil I tell you, thank God we have Joe Biden to protect us, to stand up for us “little people” against Trump’s evil puppet-master Putin and, all of his evildoing agents hiding underneath every bed in America. And when I speak of evildoing agents in the USA…I am of course speaking of Trump and his 49.7% of USA’s voters. USA’s voters who, as a CNN host so properly declared, must be sent to re-education camps and either be converted or liquidated.

    Brought to you by the National Security State, Ministry of Public Enlightenment, Putin is Trump’s Puppet-master Division.

  34. Scornful Librarian

    They would’ve closed all the libraries by now except they forgot you can’t fuck with us.

  35. Hugh

    That Putin is quite the forward thinker. But much like Trump, Putin’s words don’t mean much. His deeds like imprisoning his main opposition figure Navalny for two more years because Navalny didn’t obediently die the last time Putin tried to off him speak more loudly.

  36. Astrid

    If there was a coup on 1/6, it was one of intentional omission, as people whose job is to prevent it from happening and protect Congress inexplicably failed to do their jobs. If a few heated remarks from politicians constitutes a coup, look for this to be the way to prosecute the left far more than the right.

    The real coup is what’s happening in response to 1/6, and that’s not on Trump, Hawley, and Cruz. The DNC allied deep state is pulling a coup and cheered on by millions of Biden voters. These people are dispicable. In stupidly trading freedom for security with the world’s biggest agent of chaos, they’ll get neither.

  37. Michael the Third

    Looks like AOC got jealous of Andrew Cuomo’s Emmy and is shooting for a “Movie of the Week”.

  38. S Brennan

    Exactly Astrid.

  39. StewartM

    Not been on here in a while, but:

    Hugh, even though I have differed with you on some issues, your posts on this topic are spot-on. I’m afraid many of these posters are so fixated on their ‘hate the Dems’ shtick that they’ll excuse or minimize Trump’s doing anything, even a coup to install himself as Prez-for-life. Repeat after me, the biggest reason *why* neoliberal Dems are bad is that they *set the stage for a Trump, or worse*, not that they are worse than Trump.

    (And for those who say it was a half-assed coup, that’s only because fascists as a rule aren’t competent. Hitler wasn’t competent either; he too believed looney stuff (read his Table Talk) and he mismanaged WWII. Hitler was ‘competent’ only in that he took over a state apparatus that had a great deal of competence (though it was frequently evil); even then Hitler over time destroyed its competence by replacing able people with his cronies.

    Neither were Mussolini, Antonescu, or others particularly competent; the only ‘competent fascist’ I would name would be Franco, who correctly predicted that Germany wasn’t going to win WWII in 1940 (!) and managed to keep Spain neutral. Coups succeed as much or more due to the weakness of a state and its institutions rather than to the skill and strength of the coup plotters; Weimar Germany survived several insurrections and coup attempts until Hitler’s takeover succeeded in 1933).

    I think people are giving the insurrectionists, however, too much credit, and underestimating the power of the state to repress. Jjust as Ian correctly ridicules the idea that ‘war never solves anything’ it’s an equally absurd mistake to say ‘repression never works’. History is littered with the bones of movements, ideologies and even religions, that were turbocrushed by determined state repression. (BTW, this doesn’t include Christianity in the Roman Empire, because the Roman persecution of Christians was local and sporadic; quite unlike the repression later by Christian Roman emperors that was empire-wide, vociferous, and prolonged).

    On this, I give you US Grant’s dealing with the KKK, which was quite effective:

    The very fact that Biden’s inauguration day went off with very little in the way or protests was the result of what precautions were put up and how easily America’s fascists were deterred.

    And finally–those guys who stormed the Capital January 6th aren’t working class. They are NOT POOR, by and large. Studies of fascists show that although fascists will draw some individuals from every segment of society, the working class as a rule doesn’t become fascists. This was true even of German workers in the height of the Great Depression; they may have deserted the SPD to become communists but as a rule they did not become Nazis. Fascists are more typically small businessmen. As someone who lives in Trump country, I have passed a MacMansion I couldn’t possibly afford sporting Trump and Gadsen flags many a time with late-model autos and trucks parked in the driveway. Moreover, one particular Trumpster I know who doesn’t live in a MacMansion and drives a beat-up old pickup (but who IS a small businessman) is dead-set against Medicare-for-All and a $15/hr minimum wage (“it would destroy small business”, he claims). The people who claim these guys are potential Bernie Sanders voters just waiting for the Dems to be more progressive on economic issues are deluding themselves.

    And the fact that they are NOT POOR, is exactly why they didn’t show up on January 20th. They do actually have a lot to lose, like their MacMansions and shiny new pickups.

  40. NR

    The people who claim these guys are potential Bernie Sanders voters just waiting for the Dems to be more progressive on economic issues are deluding themselves.

    Great comment, StewartM, and this part was particularly spot-on. Right-wingers in America today simply do not care about policy. There are two things, and only two things that drive the American right: propaganda and identity politics. That’s it. They are not reachable with policy because they do not care about policy. They don’t care that Trump didn’t make good on his promise to bring back manufacturing jobs. They don’t care that his one and only legislative accomplishment was a big tax cut for billionaires. They don’t even care that he didn’t make any progress toward building a wall on the border and getting Mexico to pay for it–and that was supposed to be his signature issue!

    Propaganda and identity politics are the reasons they stuck with Trump, and those will be the reasons they throw their unthinking and unquestioning support behind the next wannabe fascist who comes along.

  41. different clue


    Armed Representatives and Senators inside the Capitol? If AOC is allowed to have her own loaded weapons in the Capitol, then Representative Little Miss Jewish-Space-Lasers will also have to be allowed to have HER own loaded weapons in the Capitol.

    Is this really such a good idea?

  42. Willy

    Only Jewish space lasers allowed inside the capitol. Plus I always knew Israel was getting way too much aid money.

    This aint the Soviets against the Nazis. It’s a multi-front war which we must fight on air, land, and beneath the sea. With propaganda leaflets and cartoon caricatures of the plutocratic enemy.

  43. If it was a coup attempt, then where is the outrage at the 28 second appearance of SWAT guys, during which cops abandoned the barricaded doors, where Ashli Babbitt was ‘shot’, soon afterwards? Shouldn’t coup coo-ers be looking for these armed devils, so close to the beating heart of political power?

    My understanding is that the guy who supposedly shot Babbitt hasn’t been named, yet.

    Of course, if this was a false flag, meant to demonize Trump and national populist MAGA types, then the last thing the false flaggers would want is a serious investigation of the Babbitt ‘shooting’. Speaking of which, anybody have word on her funeral or autopsy, yet? Oh, say now, don’t let that bother you! You’ve got a “coup” to whine about. I guess the coup plotters forgot to whisper in the ears of nearby (as in Pentagon) Army, Air Force and Navy types. I mean, not even a single tank! Not a single mortar! Couldn’t the ‘coup’ plotters have managed even a single strafing run by a disgruntled army helicopter pilot, decked out in a MAGA hat as he tries to take out AOC, but leave Hawley unscathed, from 200 feet in the air.

    “the revolt of the Underpants Gnomes” does indeed better describe the events of Jan. 6. Emporer Donald apparently was banking on the loyalty of Army, Air Force and Navy after his coronation. Not exactly how it works, now, is it? Also, aren’t you supposed to seize some mean of mass media communication? Twitter shutting down Trump is sort of the opposite of that. So, how was he going to make his Big Announcement?

    The desperate attempt to impeach Trump will fail, but attempting to coerce Trump to not mention the election fraud during the Senate trial may well succeed. Trump has no moral center, no moral courage. After reading Patrick Byrnes’ expose “How DJT Lost the White House” on his website, I have even less respect for Trump, and sincerely hope he never runs, again. What would be the point? Yeah, sure, he could beat Biden in 4 years (that is, if populists and others get real election & voting reform enacted at the state level). But, then what? 4 more years of political incompetence, where he gets rolled even by Chamber of Commerce Republicans? Build another 250 miles of border wall? Oops – I mean rebuild 250 miles of border wall that Joe Biden will tear down? Maybe next time he meets with world leaders, he’ll give 2 of them a shove, instead of just one.

    National populists deserve better. Not necessarily the Trump fanboys who cheered him on, no matter what stupid thing he said or did (they are part of the problem), but those who love their country, more than cheap rhetoric from weak man who folds like a cheap suit when his Constitutional duties required just the opposite.

  44. S Brennan

    It’s always fun to watch “blue no matter who” neoDs like NR, Hugh, StewartM et al purport to speak knowledgeably for 49.7% of the country…a portion of the country they don’t live with…Their background comes from the cardboard characters offered up by our highly urbanized media.

    The guy StewartM links to is a New Yorker…’cause when you want to know what’s “wrong with Kansas”, you go to somebody living in DC, LA, SF, Silicon Valley, Seattle, Portland…really any high rent city with a hipster vibe will do.

    Heinrich Himmler had a similar shtick…he always talked to his fellow SS officers to get the latest gossip on what his Jewish countrymen thought.

  45. Hugh

    As our resident fascists point out, the insurrection never happened, and even though it didn’t, it’s still the Democrats’ and more particularly AOC’s fault. Why, oh why can’t they be more like peaceful, unity Representatives like Marjorie Taylor Greene holding an assault rifle in a Facebook post and talking about cleaning out the “house.”

  46. covid blues

    movin to montana soon
    gonna be a dental floss tycoon

  47. Ché Pasa

    “It never happened” — that’s exactly what the current rightist, fash, and R propaganda mills and individuals want us to believe.

    “There was no coup attempt, nothing happened, nobody died, AOC can go shopping (or whatever) whenever she wants.”

    This is shocking the first time you encounter it. It’s hard to believe that anybody, especially anybody in a power position (or who wants to be) would be so dishonest about things we witnessed if only at a distance and on the tube with our own eyes, in many cases in real time. “It never happened, tho.”

    Or if it did — but it didn’t — it was a false flag arranged by the Deep State (Proud Bois) and “antifa” working in concert to… to… well, something. Make Orange Man Bad. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

    The whole picture is not going to be clear anytime soon, but the propagandist are absolutely certain that nothing happened at all.


  48. rkka

    ” His deeds like imprisoning his main opposition figure Navalny…”

    You misspelled Zyuganov.

  49. Hugh

    Zyuganov, the old communist, last ran for Russian president in 2012. Grudinin, not Zyuganov, was the communist candidate in 2018. Navalny was barred from running in 2018 by Putin.

  50. Willy

    speak knowledgeably for 49.7% of the country…a portion of the country they don’t live with

    So why not go to the great many places where they freely speak for themselves? I do. And most seem like just the kind of people Trump would want as devoted supplicants. I mean supporters.

    Not to mention, their attitudes jibe with the Trumpists I know personally. (Hint: white Christian power, with all minorities knowing their place)

  51. mago

    What Astrid said.
    Time to give the pipe a rest for some charged commenters here, even if you don’t know who you are; all the usual suspects, natch.

  52. bruce wilder

    I read the comments before I started to write this one. I am only writing a comment in response to comments, though some of what I say applies to Ian’s OP.

    I am not going to quote anyone.

    What happened at the Capitol happened. The facts of what happened do not make any particular narrative of what happened “true”. Some narratives might be better supported by the facts than others and that can be worth paying attention to. The counterfactual analyses that mesh with your favorite narrative are theories of the case; counterfactual suppositions are not facts, and not like facts.

    It is inevitable that commenters here will echo memes they pick up from social media, mass media or the zeitgeist. One that particularly disturbs me in this thread is that all 74 million Trump voters are horrible, irredeemable people with crazy beliefs, not open to either persuasion or alliance on any issue.

    The “tribalist” politics promoted by the relentless propaganda of mass media is addictive, but antithetical to everyone’s mental health.

  53. bruce wilder

    Narratives drive politics. A lot of political rhetoric revolves around contested narratives used to organize, coordinate and motivate people. That is not the same thing as thinking a narrative arc controls the evolution of politics and political events. History is written as narrative, and can be well written with respect to such facts as are known and accounted for in the narrative, but history is written that way because the human mind likes stories, wants story-telling. The actual cause-and-effect social, economic, psychological, political factual conditions may be incomprehensibly vast and largely undocumented in the debris fields of the past; the narratives of history — even the best and most meticulously documented processed by considerate judgment — paper over ignorance as much as they identify correctly what happened and how what happens comes to us as legacy. Which is a long-winded way of cautioning against getting caught up in emotionally stimulating historical analogies expressed as narrative.

    I would especially address StewartM’s Weimar > Third Reich historical analogy. Social conditions and the cacophony of competing ideologies were so different circa 1930 Europe and the preceding twenty years history — the experience of adults then living — so different from ours that the contrasts crowd out the commonalities if you just begin to admit them into consideration. As an organizing insight into productively applying historical analogy to understanding our present politics, I strongly recommend Sheldon Wolin’s idea that what we have building today is an inverted totalitarianism — in many (bad) ways the mirror-image opposite of what politics mobilized in the first half of the 20th century.

    Trump = Hitler is so stupid on so many levels, I do not know where to begin. And, no, misapplying “competent” as a label for a fixed characteristic does not make it better. Whether the Dems are “worse” than Trump or not, both have proven themselves worse than useless — does no one get that?

  54. different clue

    Part of what makes America so ready for a right-wing coup is several decades of Democratic Party conspiracy against the survival of America and Americans. For example, the Republicans were always rejected by a majority of American voters at the Congressional level because it was known that Republicans supported the International Free Trade Conspiracy against America.

    But Repub support for the IFTC wasn’t enough to bring the IFTC into power over America. It took DemParty collaboration with the IFTC and Repubs, beginning very slowly and tentatively under Carter and then very aggressively and totalistically under Clinton, to put America under International Free Trade Conspiracy governance.

    Here is a separate area where DemParty rulers have slow-motion destroyed trust and people to the point where a right wing coup might seem more attractive than it would have or should have. And that is in the area of Covid deaths. Hugh rightly reminds us that Trump was the primary driver of the runaway pandemic here by very carefully sabotaging a timely response to the spreading virus. But Governor Cuomo on his own murdered thousands of New Yorkers with covid . . . New Yorkers whom Trump did NOT kill. Here is an article making it more baldly plain than before how and why Andy ” Rat Face” Cuomo did it. And how he is proud of it and brags about it even unto this very day. And has even written a self-hagiography about it.

  55. Ché Pasa

    What is this “49.7% of the country” of which some speak?

    If the reference is to Trump voters and/or fans, that’s not “narrative,” that’s just false. Trump voters/fans amount to 25%-30% of “the country.” At best.

    And I live among them. Trump voters around here far outnumber Biden voters. Most are fine people, just wanting to live their lives and do their work with as little government interference and burden as possible. The petit bourgeois among them saw Trump as someone who “finally listened” to their pleas. Dems never did, or at least that was the perception. And it had some merit. Dems tend to make things complicated and more complicated for no particular purpose — except they can and they think they’re supposed to. That might play well enough in the cities, not so much in the country, and the over complicated, over regulated, ridiculous impositions of The Government tend to make people out here mad. Trump promised to do away with all that (he didn’t), protect the guns and to “pwn the libs” in the process (yeah, right.) So he was popular with about 70% of local voters — which is not the same as local population. Most of whom are not rabid Q folks or even involved Republicans. certainly not rioters or insurrectionists. Though resistance, passive or no, is common.

    Some people who post comments here and elsewhere like to pretend they’re operatives doing God’s Work to spread the Gospel of either the D or the Trump team (at this point, there is no coherent R team). As Bruce says, a lot of that is “narrative” not “truth,” and you can take it or leave it as you will. A lot of it is gaslighting, bullshit, false narrative, and fantasy. That’s true of both teams’ operatives, but as a rule since the advent of Trump-the-Saviour, it’s been customary for the Trump team to live in an alternate universe, not reality, because why not? As long as it works for them…

    To the topic of Ian’s post, I think a fair reading of the the situation in DC pre-and-post January 6 is that there was a coup attempt that was mostly a disorganized and partially spontaneous uprising by people, mostly Trump fans, who could afford to be there — not the poor or working class the populists pretend to represent. When those in front of the mob saw that they could easily overwhelm the security services on duty (few and far between) they went for broke, why not?

    They could have, and some would have, taken hostages and potentially murdered some — putting their heads on pikes at the four corners of the building as lessons to the rest (the way Steve Bannon put it in another context) — in order to ensure the perpetuation of Trump Rule (or in reality their own) forever and ever amen.

    But they didn’t. Some people died, yes, but no heads wound up on pikes. AOC and the rest of Congress survived the terror. Biden’s victory was ratified and Trump slouched away to his palace-in-exile in Florida.

    The end? Hardly.

  56. Ché Pasa

    And one more thing. A lot of people, maybe most, and certainly most on the “progressive” internet, despise politics and politicians. They can’t stand the “sausage making” of the political process, can’t abide the horse-trading and inherent corruption that it involves, and reject compromise, back-scratching and pork barrel trades that used to keep government on a relatively even keel over long stretches of time.

    They are, ultimately, authoritarians who want their side to prevail by ruling over the opposition — the way Trump tried to and often succeeded — not working with the opposition. The US is moving more and more into a tighter and tighter authoritarian period, so maybe eventually they’ll get their way.

  57. Synoptocon

    Thank you for your comments DC, we don’t get enough geriatric, terrified-of-what-the-unwashed-youngs-might-do paleocon talking points.

    If everyone over the age of, say, 50 could step back from the controls for once, that’d be swell.

  58. Plague Species

    Ché Pasa, making the case for gridlock. And it’s not “one more thing,” it is and will be many more things, and you know it. As if. If only. I wait anxiously for the next thing beyond the one more thing.

    The beauty of politics. Biden has a 58% approval rating and this is considered excellent or even meaningful. All the previous problems that led to him being elected? They’re gone. Evaporated. Nothing to see here. It’s all good. Everything’s gonna be alright. Politics will provide. It always has and always will. It’s a dirty ugly process, but it produces results. Look how our lives have improved. Look how healthy we are emotionally, mentally and physically. Look how healthy our planet is. It wouldn’t have been possible without politics. Don’t you just love the smell of politics in the morning. Let’s meet Majorie half way and compromise. Let’s meet QAnon half way and compromise and except half of their conspiracy theories as true. Which half, though? The part about the Dems being pedophiles? Okay, sure, I’m game. That’s politics, afterall. The Dems are pedophiles but the Jews didn’t start the forest fires in California. See how easy this is. Politics is great.

  59. @bruce wilder

    “I strongly recommend Sheldon Wolin’s idea that what we have building today is an inverted totalitarianism — in many (bad) ways the mirror-image opposite of what politics mobilized in the first half of the 20th century.”

    Ah, excellent point. I’ve many times been tempted to point out that there’s no fascism in the US*, to speak of, but there certainly is inverted totalitarianism, which is sort of the opposite (i.e., business/financial interests controlling the government, not the opposite). I was introduced to this conceptualization via interviews of Chris Hedges by Gary Null. And it’s absolutely compelling, being a mild elaboration of the idea of plutocracy, which has been shown statistically via the research of Gilens and Page.

    I frankly take it part of the psychological burden of participating on a forum with a lot of lefties, that they are seemingly UNABLE to divorce themselves from their favorite bug-a-boos. Not unlike their (real or feigned) ignorant, half baked notions of “climate change”, which is married to their complete disinterest in cost/benefit analysis of remediation, as has been attempted by Lomborg. Similarly, in the past year, we’ve seen (real or feigned) ignorance of science regarding therapeutics & prophylactics against covid, like hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and vitamin D.

    No! It’s Trump that killed 300,000 Americans from covid, and not at all the medical beau acracy; aided by the media corruption (Laura Ingraham’s show is the exception that proves the rule) as well as big tech censorship. I mean, TO THIS DAY, youtubers self censor the words “hydroxychloroquine” and “ivermectin” (see, e.g., Kim Iverson’s WHOAAAA ! Just went to search for her youtube where she went into how India is handling covid, and I see that Iverson has self-censored – i.e., removed – the ENTIRE SHOW. It was called “Kim Responds Directly To The Rising’s Reports On Sweden” and appeared on or around Jan 18. I posted a reference to it in a comment in Ian’s diary “The Logic Of Bootlickers Is The Logic Of Too Many Americans”.)

    And why did Trump kill all these Americans? Well, a better question is, why didn’t he kill more of them? After all, he’s a fascist, a modern day Hitler, and that’s what Hitlers do, isn’t it? No deeper ‘analysis’ is necessary, for the most rabid fascists-under-every-rock amongst us.

    I’m sure Biden will do a much better job controlling covid, even as resistance to prophylactics and therapeutics remains strong. {snicker} If Biden wants to be a hero, he can take on the Medical Mafia, and do what Trump was too ignorant, feckless, or cowardly to do. More likely, some more practical red states, like Florida or Texas will lead the way, and force Biden’s hand. Unfortunately, I rather doubt this scenario, also.

    Anyway, as Biden is busy putting down “insurrections” and “coup attempts”, he’d probably be too busy to notice what’s going on in any forward-thinking state that vastly out-performs the Federal government, were such to occur.

    * OK, I’ve sometimes referred to Tony Fauci as “a little Nazi”, which has a more damning ring than “a little inverted totalitarianist”. So, I’m a bit guilty of what I’m criticizing, but also understand the utility of the “Nazi” label. Hopefully, everybody will infer that I’m referring to Fauci’s de facto promotion of suffering and death, and not any peculiar racial theories or hyper-national romanticizing.

  60. Hugh

    Not sure what bruce thinks he gains by calling American fascists inverted totalitarians, except it seems to make him feel better. It does go to my point about American exceptionalism, the diseased fantasy that somehow the US is the one country on the planet that is immune to fascism. I guess it must be something in our cornflakes that protects us.

  61. This whole thread has been fascinating. There’s a cadre of people who simply cannot compute that the political world does not revolve around the material interests they want it to revolve around. So AOC is supposed to cooperate with people who have either cynically whipped up or have *been whipped up into* a near-murderous frenzy against her and many other people on the left who happen to participate in mainstream politics.

  62. Ché Pasa

    Gridlock is not the usual state of the US government. It’s been commonplace in recent times, but not for everything. Just for those things that would foster the common welfare and enhance the lives and well-being of the 99%. There should be a lesson in that, but it hasn’t quite been learned.

    And politics doesn’t always result in the best or even a better outcome. Far from it.

  63. Oh, now this is just fascinating! Lindsey Graham is threatening to call in witnesses from the FBI to testify about security failures on Jan 6, if the Democrats call even 1 witness.

    Oh, for the love of God, Democrats, PLEASE CALL WITNESSES! LOTS AND LOTS OF THEM!

    I have little faith that Trump will come through, and use a Senate trial as an opportunity to educate the American public about the election fraud. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. The War Room Pandemic crowd is pushing Trump in the direction of having Gaetz represent him, and Gaetz has declared that he is willing to resign from Congress to do so (due to ethics considerations).

    I’m also skeptical of Graham, but in this particular instance, less so than of Trump. Not sure what his motivations are. I think he wants to avoid a lengthy Senate trial because the MAGA crowd may grow by 15% in numbers, and 30% in intensity. (Especially if Gaetz represents*) That could mean serious movement to taking over the Republican party, from the donor base. And that would upset poor Lindsey comfortable, war-mongering, plutocracy-kissing, world, now wouldn’t it?

    * Yup, just checked the timeline, and at least in terms of reporting, Graham’s threat is carried today on Feb. 4, while Gaetz pledge to quit Congress to represent Trump, was reported yesterday. So, Graham may be terrified of the election fraud issue being exposed AND a populist surge in power within the Republicans. AND (possibly) launching Gaetz’ political career into the stratosphere.
    The threat of calling FBI witnesses is probably mostly directed to Pelosi and McConnell, who probably colluded in having security undermanned on Jan 6. However, it’s just as plausible that it’s directed to the Democrats in Congress, primarily. Unfortunately, it’s least plausible that Graham has any interest in identifying Deep State colluders, in particular those involved in the ‘shooting’ of Ashli Babbitt. Since it’s the FBI we’re talking about, there’s zero chance of them testifying to false flag treason, anyway.

    Well, I am speculating as to motives, but in any event, I hope the Democrats call witnesses and Graham follows through with his threat.


  64. S Brennan

    “This whole thread has been fascinating. There’s a cadre of people who simply cannot [grasp reality]”.

    There, fixed.

    The 06 Jan protest was no different than what happened two years ago at the Brett Kavanaugh protest, the same thing, except since the media was on the side of the protesters, the protesters were allowed to “storm” the rotunda and to surround senate offices and hold staff “hostage”without serious incident. And I add for emphasis, without the need to shoot any unruly, but unarmed protesters in the face.

    And of the dead rioters, still not clear, nobody in the media seems to care what the results of the autopsies are. Most articles on the subject are pejoratives intermixed mixed with conjecture. But we know “three rioters” who died were standing around outside on the sidewalk, one of stroke and two of fatal heart attack.

    And the cop death; “the brutal beating with the fire extinguisher”, the video shows a different cop, in full riot gear, being struck in the back of the helmet by a thrown fire extinguisher. But the cop who died reported he was feeling unwell and went back to the station house where he died of a stroke. Autopsy results are still being held back from the public.

    I in no way support the protesters copying the tactics of antifa. And I note for the record the protest was led by a paid FBI informant. I only point out these inconvenient facts so at least their is a record that some of us put truth before political opportunity.

  65. Willy

    Anybody who thinks Kavanaugh and Trump deserve positions of power have lost their minds.

  66. Hugh

    Trump and educate in the same sentence, too funny, metamars. You should have gone into standup.

  67. Willy

    It is inevitable that commenters here will echo memes they pick up from social media, mass media or the zeitgeist. One that particularly disturbs me in this thread is that all 74 million Trump voters are horrible, irredeemable people with crazy beliefs, not open to either persuasion or alliance on any issue.

    Okay bruce. Please tell us your answer to dealing with them. Mine, is they either need to be peeled away from Qanon objectivist white evangelical tribalism onion layer by layer leaving the center to rot, or be allowed to hit bottom like your guru Qanon shaman. This does go against the common wisdom that the 74 million are best properly deprogrammed gently and lovingly so they’re strong enough to be persuaded to face reality.

  68. Willy

    Comment in mod. Another try:

    My briefest possible documentation of my visits to a conservative evangelical blog.

    Date: Tone of my comments (their reaction)

    2007: Tell them Bush is a loser (get called “a libtard” who enables sharia law)
    2015: Warn them about Trump (uncertainty)
    2018: Tell them “I told you so” (strong ad hominem pushback)
    2020: Tell them Bush, McCain and Romney despise Trump (all three get called RINO losers)

    The same steadfast core group of bloggers. Based on that small sample alone, these people have no apparent principles outside of tribalism and a profound “The left ruins everything!” ideology. This seems the end result of years of brainwashing, for votes, for a highly dishonest plutocracy.

  69. Hugh

    SB continues to give us daily lessons in how the fascist right in the US tries to duck responsibility for everything. So the lie that there was no insurrection wasn’t working out so well. So now the line has shifted to: there was no insurrection but if there was one, it was the left who did it first and inspired the right’s version. Similarly, the no violence or it was really antifa lies weren’t flying either. So it became if there was any violence, and it’s all highly doubtful and murky, then if antifa didn’t do it, they “inspired” it. So really even if the right did it, for some definition of it, it’s the left’s fault.

  70. NR

    Also the notion that people could be “educated” about election fraud that didn’t happen is instructive for how blatantly Orwellian it is.

  71. Willy

    The right uses multi-pronged attacks employing gaslighting, shaming and repetition. Dissembling is as popular as are well-studied attacks on the weaknesses of individual psychological temperaments. The evidence is so prevalent that it should be self-evident. These seem like plutocratic strategies to me. They attack TV advertisement style. You’re not cool unless you’re drinking their Kool aid. If you say that added sugar is bad for you, then they’ll repeatedly repeat that you’re a neoD for sure.

    There was never any evidence that Trump was going to attack the plutocratic hegemony. His talk was always cheap. I’d rather itemize the end-result differences between Biden and Trump, pro and con.

    When I point out that virtually no leftists are at the level of lying lunacy as an Alex Jones or Rudy Giuliani or The My Pillow Guy, they try to gaslight, shame, and repetition me into believing that Bernie or David Hogg or Greta Thunberg are even worse. This is obvious insanity.

  72. Willy

    Endless wars: Biden vs Trump, Yemen.

    Obama opened up the US assisting the Saudis against Iran backed militias in Yemen, in spite of some D pushback. During Trump, congress repeatedly passed bipartisan legislation to end that policy but Trump vetoed it every time, excepting some aerial refueling. Biden just said he’ll end US support in the Yemen war. Let’s see if any of the antiwar anti-neoDs say anything about what does actually happen.

    Disclaimer: this is part of keeping honest score, not repeat repeating dishonest lunacy. I’m open to honest correction.

  73. someofparts

    “Not sure what bruce thinks he gains by calling American fascists inverted totalitarians, except it seems to make him feel better.”

    Here you go –

    Do a simple Google search and find out how long this book has been out and how much talk about it there has been online.

  74. Willy

    Chris Hedges:

    “We appear to have bought four years with Biden’s election, but if we do not use it wisely — and there is nothing in the Biden nominations that offer any encouragement — we are merely reconstructing a shabby Potemkin village that will soon be flattened by the gale-force political and environmental hurricanes that are gathering around us.”

    That’s far more worth repeat repeating than is any of this total nonsense about stolen elections and who’s a neoD. And then there’s the seemingly impossible task of reconciling some kind of commonality with the brainwashed right wing.

  75. Hugh

    The essence of inverted totalitarianism is its corporatism. It really fits much better into neoliberalism. Trumpism is much more in tune with traditional fascism. It’s anti-democratic, race-based, leader-centered hypernationalism. Other than obfuscation, I do not understand the recourse to some convoluted academic nomenclature instead of something that is simple and accurate.

  76. S Brennan

    “SB continues to give us daily lessons in how the fascist right in the US tries to duck responsibility for everything” Hugh

    Hugh; Please explain how describing factual events here:

    “The 06 Jan protest was no different than what happened two years ago at the Brett Kavanaugh protest, the same thing, except since the media was on the side of the protesters, the protesters were allowed to “storm” the rotunda and to surround senate offices and hold staff “hostage”without serious incident. And I add for emphasis, without the need to shoot any unruly, but unarmed protesters in the face.

    And of the dead rioters, still not clear, nobody in the media seems to care what the results of the autopsies are. Most articles on the subject are pejoratives intermixed mixed with conjecture. But we know “three rioters” who died were standing around outside on the sidewalk, one of stroke and two of fatal heart attack.

    And the cop death; “the brutal beating with the fire extinguisher”, the video shows a different cop, in full riot gear, being struck in the back of the helmet by a thrown fire extinguisher. But the cop who died reported he was feeling unwell and went back to the station house where he died of a stroke. Autopsy results are still being held back from the public. [For the studiously ignorant, the cop struck by the fire extinguisher, wasn’t the cop who died of a stroke]

    I in no way support the protesters copying the tactics of antifa. And I note for the record the protest was led by a paid FBI informant. I only point out these inconvenient facts so at least their is a record that some of us put truth before political opportunity.”

    Comports to your claim of “ducking responsibility”?

  77. Hugh

    With Trumpers we get this “conclusions first followed by facts as needed or not at all.” So with the Capitol insurrection their beginning conclusion is that it wasn’t their fault. Thus, either it didn’t happen or it’s really somebody else’s fault. We have seen and continue to see both from our local fascists.

  78. came to see

    I thought this was the most important piece of Bruce’s post:

    The “tribalist” politics promoted by the relentless propaganda of mass media is addictive, but antithetical to everyone’s mental health.

    Evidently no one else did.

  79. Willy

    the recourse to some convoluted academic nomenclature instead of something that is simple and accurate.

    Back when I was a gig-economy worker going company to company as an engineering temp, I could quickly tell who was ethical and decent regular guy because they’d answer my newbie questions as plainly and simply as possible. With others, when I’d get this overlong bafflegab, only rarely was it a feature of their speaking style. They’d reveal later that they were rivals either intentionally misleading me, or trying to intimidate me into some kind of submission.

  80. Soredemos


    Navalny is an extremely minor political figure whose party polls at something like 2%. He’s barely an opposition figure at all, much less the main opposition. The main opposition is the Communist Party, which consistently gets at least 10% of the vote.

    He’s basically a Russian David Duke: a fringe political figure whose most notable attribute is how comically bigoted he is. This is the ‘noble opposition leader’ that Western media has embraced:

    As for the supposed assassination attempt, the Skripal story was already idiotic enough. Now we’re expected to believe that the Russian government can’t manage to kill a guy within Russia itself, with a nerve agent multiple times more deadly than the already instantly lethal VX? You can’t possibly be that stupid. If Putin wanted someone dead, he would be dead. He wouldn’t come down the symptoms of food poisoning and then be allowed to leave the country for treatment elsewhere.

  81. Willy

    The “tribalist” politics promoted by the relentless propaganda of mass media is addictive, but antithetical to everyone’s mental health.

    You’re a nobody if you don’t have a new F-250 to drive from Home Depot to your D.R. Horton McMansion with your new Samsung washer. The products being advertised are the real products, the tribalist politics is an excuse.

    Even if you’ve conditioned yourself to live with less, there’s more. Ever wake up one day to find yourself twenty pounds overweight, after all that exercise, and realize the ridiculous amounts of unhealthy deliciousness they put into your daily food? The foundation of conservatism and neoliberalism is the addiction to more for oneself. Healthy sustainable everything usually means less.

  82. Hugh

    came to see, who attacked the Capitol on Jan. 6?

  83. came to see

    Hugh, you obviously have something in mind. Why don’t you just tell me what it is?

    I wonder if the response will be, “Just answer the question first.”

  84. Willy

    I’d say that antifa cleverly disguised as doughy white middle aged upper & middle class evangelicals attacked the Capitol on Jan.6. And that their patriotic singing and “fuck antifa” chanting didn’t fool me one bit. But that would make me crazy.

  85. Mark Level

    A rare time I am going to disagree with Ian. The Jan. 6 events were a putsch, a failed coup attempt. I think Max Blumenthal, who was there covering the events, called it a beer-belly coup or something like that.

    Despite the occasional Trump coup supporter like the Proud Boys’ Enrique Tarrio, also an FBI informant, & some fascist cops & ex-military (pretty common, as we all know), that group of aggrieved bourgeoisie lacked the vital support of the actual military, Pentagon etc. (which some Trumpkins pretended to disrespect as “the deep state”, which obviously does exist but does just fine with 100% support from the political Establishment, Demopublican bipartisanship).

    As NR correctly points out, the Trump Cult/Qanon bunch have no real ideology beyond “propaganda & [white grievance] idpol”– that movement will never have the sustained success of even say, e.g., the Trotskyists during the Soviet revolution.

    So the Establishment, the “grown ups” as our state media said, prevailed again, for now, and the process, “transition of power” continued almost peacefully, with only a half dozen immediately dead, & some deep state militarization of the Capitol (which has not had a “people’s house” in decades, since FDR, if ever). Now Biden will do nothing to support the majority of Americans as their material situation continues to decay during a deadly pandemic, and 2 years from now, whichever faction of the (R)s, Corporate Establishment (Lincoln Project globalist imperialists) or Marjorie Taylor Greene (Jewish Space Lasers QAnon lumpen) prevails will be firmly back in the drivers’ seat, with control of the Senate at least.

    It’ll be a slow bleed for the “nation”, if USA even merits that term anymore. Perhaps had Trump been in the least anti-imperialist and not just performative, there would have been a coup, but none was needed, and as dotard Joe informed the donors, “Nothing will fundamentally change.” Maybe America is exceptional, still clinging to a failed Late Capitalist oligarchy as it falls apart piece by piece. I don’t know a lot about the Byzantine Empire (though I do know they fell from an external threat that we don’t currently face) but I think studying their downfall might clarify where this country is headed.

  86. Soredemos

    On the topic of the riot on the sixth, it wasn’t a coup. What just happened in Myanmar was a coup. What happened at the Capitol was a riot that got out of hand. That mob showed up to protest the Electoral College ratification vote (any remotely honest reading of what Trump actually told his supporters to do indicates he didn’t say anything other than to show up and cheer from outside the building. But now we’re in the era of horse whispering what someone ‘really’ meant. So now what a political enemy actually said is irrelevant; their words can and will be ‘interpreted’ in whatever way fits the political narrative at the moment). Things got out of hand, apparently from some idiots in the back egging the mob on and then the madness of crowds took over. The police were quickly overwhelmed, and once the rioters were inside the building the cops couldn’t do much other than follow the morons around until backup arrived.

    And yes, the way this mob was handled, both before and after, was very different from how BLM was handled. With BLM six months ago militarized Federal officers were called in to surround the Capitol. With this mob of Trumptards no one took it seriously and no steps were taken in the days leading up to the riot to dissuade, disrupt, or divert the crowd.

    It wasn’t a coup; not even a badly executed one. Coups announce the formation of new governments from the podium. They don’t…take selfies with the podium and then haul it away to try and sell on eBay. That mob was genuinely surprised when they got inside the building, and thought it was a fun experience. They wandered around poking at things and crapping on the floor. That’s not a coup. It’s a parade of LARPers.

    As for AOC, I’ve had about enough of her hysterical, performative bullshit. The Democrats have shown for decades that their preferred solution to any problem is more and better propaganda. AOC is effectively just the next stage of that. I have a sinking feeling we’re in for decades of this from her. She’s young, charismatic, and knows the internet. She pretty effortlessly won her first reelection. She’s going to be around in politics for a long time, and it’s going to be an endless stream of her dunking on people on Twitter, putting on contrived emotional shows on Instagram, and streaming games on Twitch. And all the while she’s going to be quietly voting for 99% of whatever the Democratic Party wants. She’ll continue being Pelosi’s lapdog who habitually yaps before doing what she’s told, before probably becoming the next Pelosi herself.

  87. Soredemos

    @Mark Level

    “As NR correctly points out, the Trump Cult/Qanon bunch have no real ideology beyond “propaganda & [white grievance] idpol””

    I disagree with this, both in general and in regards to the capitol riot specifically. Trump increased his share of every demographic other than (the constantly vilified) white men in the 2020 election. Portraying him and his supporters as driven predominately by racism has always been a dishonest media narrative that never fit the facts on the ground (why did 200+ counties that had previously voted twice for Obama flip red in 2016?). But it’s a convenient way to ignore anything deeper behind the rise of Trump. Saying “it’s just bigots being bigots” is a great way to instantly shut down any introspection.

    In terms of the riot specifically, the narrative was established basically from the start that this was a white supremacist mob. But if you actually look at pictures and video of these ‘white supremacists’, it isn’t hard to find black and brown people in the crowd.'Iranians%20for%20Trump'%20-%20Ali%20Harb.jpg

    Mostly this inconvenient factoid has been ignored, but sometimes someone will try and take a stab at explaining it, which gets us sheer idiocy like this:

    When all you have is an idpol hammer, everything is a nail that must be pounded down to fit the idpol framing. ‘Obviously’ minority supporters of Trump can’t be motivated by anything other than some sort of ingrained racial self-hatred.

  88. Hugh

    Soredemos, you have Russia all figured out. No doubt the recent demonstrations and arrests were all about the Communist party, not Navalny. Right, got it.

    came to see, you gave us a generalization, throwing some/all groups together, with no context. But what we have been discussing in this thread is that it was not all groups acting the same. On Jan. 6, only one went for insurrection. I find the tribalism and walk away a cop out.

  89. S Brennan

    Excellent posts Soredemos,

    I only found one thing to disagree with in all that well presented writing…Cortez* “probably becoming the next Pelosi herself”…I don’t think she’ll be trusted, used like Bernie to keep the sheep on the plantation but not trusted by the DNC’s donor class.

    I find Cortez trying to force others to revere and address her in the nomenclature of FDR repulsive.

  90. Soredemos

    It is in fact very easy to get people, especially young people, out into the streets to protest for something stupid. Over a year of BLM, a movement with few coherent demands and no understanding of the root of the problem they’re protesting, is amble demonstration of that.

    I’ll also take my understanding of Russia over that of a guy who parrots that Russian David Duke is an opposition leader any day.

  91. Soredemos

    Also I voted for Hawkins. So spare me the claims that I’m a ‘tribalist’.

  92. Hugh

    Soredemos, you should get together with Brennan. You can wave your canes at the world.

  93. came to see

    came to see, you gave us a generalization, throwing some/all groups together, with no context.

    I did? This was my post:

    I thought this was the most important piece of Bruce’s post:

    The “tribalist” politics promoted by the relentless propaganda of mass media is addictive, but antithetical to everyone’s mental health.

    Evidently no one else did.

    Of course, “you gave us a generalization, throwing some/all groups together, with no context” is in fact an exact description of your own approach to the events of that day.

  94. Hugh

    Came to see, can you give me the names of a few groups you consider to be tribal and how their tribalism contributed to the events of Jan. 6?

  95. Soredemos

    I’m the rip old age of 31.

    The woke of my age group and younger are in fact profoundly stupid.

  96. came to see

    Hugh is handing out assignments.

    The dog ate my homework Hugh.

  97. mago

    I- Ching hexagram 108 states:
    Buncha twinkies bitching.
    No furtherance.

  98. Seattle Resident


    BLM’s crusade against the American pastime of systemic police brutality against unarmed black people is not a coherent demand or is it one of their few coherent demands (and a damn good one)???

  99. Willy

    Howie Hawkins seems like a good guy. Doesn’t appear to have any major personality disorders, which is a plus. He even condemned the riot/insurrection/beer belly putsch:

    The disruption of the Electoral College vote by Congress today by an invasion of the US capitol by a far-right authoritarians deserves total condemnation.

    Sadly, I’m thinking that if he’d been there on the 6th wearing his Green Party Socialists! getup, he might’ve gotten his ass kicked.

    Since bitching about AOC and pining for Trump seem like dead ends, I wouldn’t mind some new blood. That Hawkins got 0.2% of the 2020 vote and then trying to get elected 25 other times without success, certainly are problems. Any ideas about how to multiply that voter share by at least 250 or so?

  100. Hugh

    Right, came to see, you have nothing.

  101. Stirling S Newberry

    Obviously, $15 an hour is too much an ask.

    Biden is not going to budge – he is running TORP (That Other Republican Party).

  102. S Brennan


    You put up an elitist paywall protected link purporting to speak for those that can not afford to read ANY paywall protected links.

    Shouldn’t you ask yourself…am I missing something?

    On the other hand, you haven’t been screaming that there’s a Ruskie under every bed for the past few days so that’s an improvement.

  103. Hey, guys, I found yet another example of a coup attempt, as clear as day on video. In the youtube “When Your Car is Blocked by a Herd of Goats”, you can see a herd of goats attacking a couple of vehicles, and their occupants. Dare I say that they are “storming” these vehicles? The goats are obviously right-wing goats, and obviously some of the goats attempt to murder the occupants, via trampling and goring.

    Sure, I know that some people will object and SAY “Ah, but most of the goats aren’t looking to harm anybody”. Indeed, the videographer in the car actually seems to enjoy the process, and we can imagine that they would have posed for some of the goats for a selfie, if only goats could take selfies. This in no way should detract from the visual evidence, which we can all see with our own eyes, of the clear coup attempt to deprive the vehicles and their occupants of access to the road, and by the actions of oh-so-many of the goats to attack the vehicle occupants, some with the intent to kill them. Clearly, this coup attempt is for keeps, and the goats will never leave that road, if successful!

    It’s also perfectly clear that the lead goat, as well as any and all shepherds involved, should be IMPEACHED! Justice demands this, and our righteous anger should not be deterred by any fascists and goat-murderer-apologists in our midsts, like metamars, Golladay, and S Brennan.

    BTW, while this is clearly analogous to the fascist storming of the Capitol Hill, there is a clear difference. And that is: all the goats have horns, but only 1 of the Capitol Hill coup stormers had horns.

    Oh, well, no analogy is perfect, now, is it?

  104. Ché Pasa

    The term of art is “autogolpe”.

  105. Plague Species

    A few notes.

    In Ian’s 2012 “kindness” repost following this post, where the comments are closed, in the commentary you will find a commenter by the name of Qanon. It was 2012, long before there was even any mention of Qanon. Hmmmm.

    Kindness to fascists is seen as weakness to them and is lost on them. They only understand cruelty. I’m not saying be cruel, I am saying don’t bother going out of your way to be kind to them. They admire Pinochet and his death squads where dissidents were thrown out of helicopters. They tauntingly approve of this tactic. I refuse to be kind to that.

  106. Plague Species

    In other news, Biden’s approval rating as reported by Joe and Mika this morning is now 61% and climbing. The more he rehabilitates the republican party as a foil and scapegoat and cover for the Dems sliding even further right, the more those voting in the poll approve.

    As part of the reconciliation process for the stimulus, the republicans have a lot of goodies in their bag to add as amendments. Funding for the further building of McDonald Trump’s wall is one of them. The Dems refuse to kill the filibuster which is a relic of the Jim Crow days. They will clamor for confederate flags and monuments to be taken down, but they will not proceed past symbolism and get to the substantive meat of the matter — the systemic relics of slavery and racism that still exist in the hallowed halls of governance and the filibuster along with the electoral college are two such things of onerous substance.

  107. Willy

    Comment about Howie Hawkins in mod.

    Yeah, the Qanon coincidence in the kindness thread is weird. The only other Q I’d ever heard of was Qtips and that TNG supernatural prankster character.

    In world full of trolls, memes and computer viruses you’d think people would be more immunized to dark pranks like Qanon. Seems like a good teachable moment. I’d say the supernatural and conspiracy blind-faithers are most susceptible to these brain worms. Low abstract reasoning perhaps?

    As for kindness and cruelty, people are born with a temperamental talent range. Been known for millennia and Keirsey expanded on what Hippocrates observed. For some people their natural set point is ethical compassion, for others it’s cruel dominance. I observed different groups in the gig economy world and every group had a different personality. The most unpleasant groups, full of anxiety-inducing chaos, usually had a psychopath in charge or lurking in the shadows pulling strings for their own amusement. If I could go back I’d screw them over for my own amusement, while trying to raise the kindness level of the group.

  108. I omitted a key detail about the coup attempt by the herd of goats in “When Your Car is Blocked by a Herd of Goats” on youtube. Most of the right-wing goats are WHITE. Oh, the HORROR! Yeah, sure, there’s some goats that are mixed black and white, but it’s quite clear that this is a WHITE SUPREMICIST operation.

  109. Willy

    It’s a traditional brain (guardian) function. Happened to the Japanese during its militarist days when they mass murdered not-Japanese Asian others. It’s why liberty loving conservatives are some of the most boring dressers out there, until everybody’s doing something more sexy-stylish. What functions as the ballast of human society can be turned to evil by the nefarious.

  110. Seattle Resident


    Greens need to start running people on their ticket for senate, congress, city council, governor, etc. They need to mainstream their brand so that people who don’t pay attention to politics are aware of them and vote for them. Greens will get nowhere if they simply run somebody for the presidency every four years, get their 1% then disappear for 4 years without doing any movement building.

  111. Willy

    Greens. I think that very carefully, comprehensively, and logically laying out scientifically ironclad cases for voting Green, will get them around 10-20 percent of the vote, at best. Most people just do things because that’s the way they’ve always been done, or it serves them well on a personal level, or just because they’re just cool.

    Take Amazon. Is there really much difference between browsing for products on a computer vs browsing for products in a paper catalog? Sears had the added bonus of having stores in most towns where customers could put their hands on the products they’d seen in the catalogs. Personally, if I’m gonna make a major purchase I want to take the time to put my hands on it first. Make sure the box hasn’t been smashed in, or gets manhandled by the stressed delivery guy, or gets stolen off my porch. Not to mention its a crap shoot. I bought a dehumidifier from Sears that lasted 25 years, while the 9.8 star “review rated” replacement I got off Amazon is plastic crap which doesn’t do what was advertised.

    Amazon knew how to get “cool”, and Sears lost their coolness. In the political world, sometimes it backfires. Goldwater tried logic for years and after the anti-christian GOP became cool with many Christians, they started influencing the movement to where he famously said it’d been taken over by “a bunch of kooks”.

  112. different clue


    Thank you for your interest in my comment. I am always happy to hear from you. Please let me know if you have any other concerns.

  113. Thomas Golladay

    Watch and read the actual article, in which Establishment types brag about how they fixed the Election to ensure Biden won while suppressing all attempts to do a full and transparent audit.

    Congratulations, we got a fascist authoritarian in charge who will ramp up the wars, ramp up warrantless surveillance, and finish off the economy.

  114. Hugh

    I’ll probably post this on an open thread when it shows up. But here it is for now:

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics Jobs report covering January of this year is out. As always I look at seasonally unadjusted data –as in what really happened. In January (December to January), we expect a big drop off in jobs after the end of year holidays. This January 2.773 million total nonfarm jobs (that is the public and private sectors combined) were lost. This is actually in line with previous years: 2.791 million job loss in Jan. 2020 and 2.804 million lost in my reference year 2014 (best overall year since the 2008 crash). Compared to January 2020 (January to January), we are down 9.128 million: 140.927 million now versus 150.055 million then. This does not tell us the whole story. We have to take into consideration where we should expect to have been. For example, January 2019 to January 2020, jobs increased by 2.176 million. Adding this to the 9.128 million, the total job loss would be 11.304 million. This is a little low since the January 2018 to January 2018 jobs growth was 2.467 million, yielding a jobs deficit of 11.595 million. And for 2014 (January 2014-January 2015), jobs growth was 3.022 million, giving a deficit of 12.150 million jobs.

    Looking just at private sector jobs, the December-January end of the year drop off was 2.357 million versus 2.384 million in 2020 and 2.304 million in 2014. January 2020 to January 2021, 7.873 million jobs were lost: 127.405 million to 119.532 million jobs.January 2019 to January 2020, 1.904 million jobs were gained, yielding a jobs deficit (7.873 million plus 1.904 million) of 9.777 million private jobs. For 2014 (January 2014 to January 2015), private jobs growth was 2.878 million which would give a current private jobs deficit of 10.751 million.

    Turning to employment in the smaller household survey, the December-January drop off was 1.230 million down to 148.383 million. This is less than the December 2019-January 2020 drop off of 1.510 million. This year’s end of the year loss may be smaller because there were fewer employed to start with. On the other hand, at the start of 2014, the drop off in employment was only 897,000, but 2014 was a solid year for employment. The January 2020 to January 2021 employment loss was 8.611 million while the January 2019-January 2020 employment gain was 2.030 million, giving us (adding this to 8.611 million) an overall employment deficit of 10.641 million, or using the Jan. 2014-Jan.2015, 3.026 million gain, an employment deficit of 11.637 million.

    Overall, the economy remains significantly damaged from covid and the responses, or lack of, to it. No indications things are getting substantially worse or better.

  115. Hugh

    I notice this typo toward the end of the first long paragraph: “This is a little low since the January 2018 to January 2018 jobs growth was” should read “This is a little low since the January 2018 to January 2019 jobs growth was.”

  116. Soredemos

    @Seattle Resident

    Correct. After over a year of this, nothing has changed. Because they have little in the way of specific policy demands, and the ones they do have don’t go down well with the general public (including with people who live in crime ridden places). Everyone who got on board with the ‘abolish the police’ rhetoric has backed away from it, because it is both profoundly stupid and politically unpalatable.

    US policing is systemically classist, not racist. By framing what is actually a class issue as a racial one, BLM is doomed to failure before they even start.

    By the way, many of the cases that became BLM cause celebre were at least debatable, or outright justified killings. With Walter Wallace, the police killed a crazy man with a knife and the response of ‘activists’ was to IMMEDIATELY start burning down Philadelphia.

    BLM has been one massive tragedy. Policing in the US is actually in need of massive reform and BLM started with huge public support. (Supposedly) it was the largest protest movement in the history of the country, with up to 20 million people taking to the streets. There was a real chance for real reform. And then they fucking wasted it. They pissed it all away on vague demands and performative nonsense. Between the combination of nothing and vandalism & violence that was BLM, and liberals suddenly turning on a time post-1/6 to embrace law enforcement again, the police have come out of this with a better reputation than before BLM started.

  117. Hugh

    In his title Ian calls the US a coup-able state. This is a play on words in French where coupable means “guilty.”

  118. Ché Pasa

    Policing in the US is both classist and racist. As it has always been. If you don’t recognize that, you aren’t paying attention.

  119. Jason

    No indications things are getting substantially worse or better.

    If they’re not getting better then things in the real world are getting worse for people. Status quo is slow death. Though the word “substantially” is a qualifier.

    Does “seasonally unadjusted data – as in what really happened” in economic terms translate well – or even at all – into people’s real day-to-day lives?

  120. Hugh

    To understand statistics, it’s important to know what they really measure not what we assume they measure, and it’s important to know how they are measured. What gets reported as the official numbers are seasonally adjusted. What this means is that the hills and valleys get smoothed out to make a nice pretty line. There are sometimes reasons for doing this. For example, if you want to compare one month with a different month in a different year, January is an interesting month because the difference between the seasonally adjusted and unadjusted numbers is never higher. Seasonally unadjusted data is not about the pretty line. It’s the best guess as to what happened in the month. So while the pretty line says 49,000 jobs were created in January, around 2.8 million were actually lost because this is what usually happens after the Christmas holidays and during the school vacations.

    Another important caveat is that the BLS treats all jobs as the same when we all know they are not.

  121. different clue


    Since I don’t know French, I would not have spotted that clever double meaning, if it was in fact intended.

    If it was, all I can say is that if America is ten times more evil than Canada, it is because America is ten times bigger by population, power, etc. If Canada were ten times bigger than it is, it would be just as net-quantity evil as America.

    Certainly, the Canadian Anglo-Franco settler state imperative was just as anti-Indian as America’s, wherever Canada had land as inhabitable and settle-able as America.

    That said, Canada offers America certain better examples . . . . such as tax-funded Single Payer CanadaCare for all people in Canada. The US could do the same thing IF the majority who want it could conquer the government here and make it our OWN government and use it aGAINST the opponents of CanadaCare for all Americans to FORCE the issue.

    Of course, a lot of Americans will be suspicious that ” Universal Health Care” or “Single Payer” or whatever doesn’t really secretly mean ” Crappy ObamaCare Bronze Plan” for everybody here. Because that is something we would mostly reject.

  122. Hugh

    Virtually every other industrialized country has better healthcare than we do and do it more cheaply and cover everybody. It’s like the perfect political argument is out there waiting for anyone or any party to pick up. All they have to do is ask, why not us? Why do we have to have bad healthcare or no healthcare? And any politician who can’t or won’t deliver it is a 100% good reason to get rid of them. The key is to get it out into the public awareness because once it’s there all the lies and shilling for the insurance industry, Big Pharma, and Big Med won’t stand up. Just like BLM, we need rallies for Healthcare for All. Raise awareness, and we win.

Powered by WordPress & Theme by Anders Norén