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Trump’s Muslim Ban

2017 January 28

This is what Trump said he’d do, and he’s doing it. While I appreciate politicians keeping their promises, this is something I think is wrong on its merits. I’ll second this suggestion, with respect to the green card holders being denied entry:

I note that if the intention was to punish sponsors of terrorism, the ban should have hit Saudi Arabia and Egypt, which is where the money and the actual 9/11 terrorists mostly came from.

I have long thought that Canada, and many other countries, could easily benefit from American xenophobia. People are an asset, and it is only in sickly nations, economies, and cultures where they are viewed as a liability.


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111 Responses
  1. Tom permalink
    January 30, 2017

    @Bilikin, Bush and Obama have already ignored the courts on torture of detainees and granting trials to those detained at Gauntanomo. Trump is no diferent.

  2. Lisa permalink
    January 30, 2017

    What a CF….. and see what happens when you get ideologues in Govt, who have little (any?) touch with reality.

    Seems a small number within the US Govt convinced him that it wouldn’t be a problem…then we have permanent residents returning and being knocked back, people with valid visas being caught out in mid air ..heck even pilots being stuffed with airlines running around like headless chooks trying to deal with it.

    Now we can debate the actual policy and how ‘right’ or wrong it might be (double serving of hypocrisy though however you look at it)…but then there is implementation. That has to be worked out carefully, even if just for political reasons let alone basic humanity and observance of the law…and it is a total CF…..

    Oh my if they can stuff something as simple as this, this gives little hope for any other things.

    The positive thing is that it is so screwed up, so cruel, so in people’s faces that it has eneregised so many people to fight against it….

    We might end up longing for the ‘good old days’ of the neo-conservatives in Bush’s Govt who just redefined reality ..rather than ignore it entirely…

    This sums it up perfectly:

    “Malevolence Tempered by Incompetence: Trump’s Horrifying Executive Order on Refugees and Visas”

    https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence-tempered-incompetence-trumps-horrifying-executive-order-refugees-and-visas

    Though I’d put it: “Malevolence -Untempered by Competence: Trump’s Horrifying Executive Order on Refugees and Visas”.

  3. Lisa permalink
    January 30, 2017

    Oh my the comments are so ..silly, 0verall with honourable exceptions..the closeted (and programmed by others) …silly boys “I am smart and believe everything I am programmed to hate and if you don’t hate how I am told to hate you are a ‘butthurt snowflake” …no you sir are an idiot.

    Islamophobia ( just an indirect racsism thing they are not white aren’t they) , the direct racism (long felt but not allowed in polite company) ..of course the homophobia… sigh…

    Being cowards of course (remember my bully/violence thing), homosocial to a fault (conditioned to be sociopaths) .. of course with all the sexual neuroticsm that entails (any woman who has or wants sex with me is a slut)….

    The classic homosocial ideal is a bunch of racist, raping bullies ..who run to their mothers when someone faces (or better still beats) them down… They always cry for their ,who usually hated them, mothers. Oh I remember them well… so strong at 10 or even 20 to 1 (the one was me) and so cowardly alone…and so so cried when they got hurt….

    Remember my rules : the US is a high violence /high bullying culture ..but what happens when the traditional victims fight back…… Well the perpiarators get all ‘butthust’… (it is a sexual fantasy of theirs by the way) …..

  4. Ché Pasa permalink
    January 30, 2017

    “A shock to the system” as KAC put it. And “Just the beginning.” Yep.

    See, we already had our Reichstag Fire Moment quite some time ago. Some of us are old enough to remember it, remember where we were and what we were doing and all that sort of thing. The response transformed the government and the attitudes of Our Rulers toward the Rabble and the owners and sponsors of that government to the extent that the US today is not a recognizable entity compared to what it was Pre-Reichstag.

    Shocks to the system help keep the Rabble off guard and off balance and ultimately keep them tame. They also help keep the factions inside and outside the gates of the palace fighting with one another over issues of power and wealth. No “solution” ever arises except to the benefit of one or another of the factions — sometimes solely to the benefit of specific individuals.

    None of the “solutions” benefit the People. They are instead further oppressions and extractions.

    The shock of the diktat was not so much its contents — try to read it, it’s mostly gobbledygook — as it was the immediate, cruel and largely arbitrary implementation. It was deliberate, planned, and very cynical chaos. That little worm Reince Preibus (I think it was) said they’d been working on the plan and implementation for weeks. If he’s telling the truth (who knows with these people) then what we saw was for the most part what they intended to happen.

    And of course the apparent pull back from the most egregious cruelties — such as splitting families, sending green card holders back (if that’s what happened) and outright illegalities regarding immigrants — makes the Supreme Ruler seem like a Benevolent King correcting the excesses of his security state apparat (“if only the Czar knew!”) rather than the POS he is.

    Ignoring court orders was apparently built in to the plan as well. After all, as Andrew Jackson showed clearly all those many years ago, there is essentially nothing the courts can do if the Rulers and their government chooses to ignore or defy them. For the most part, the courts are so deeply compromised as it is that they’re rarely going to rule against the government in any case. And when they do, the upshot will often be to enhance the power of the government over the people rather than restrict it.

    Also it’s an opportunity to gauge the “resistance.” I’m not sure they expected such a large, mostly spontaneous outpouring. But they saw it, and they saw how ultimately easy it was to corral and dissipate it with a bit of police violence here and there, some tweaks to the implementation, and sending in some clowns to entertain the crowds with hot headed demands and tales of daring-do.

    Hilarity no doubt ensued in the White House and corridors of DHS. “This is a cinch!”

    Dog knows how many pixels were sacrificed in online intellectual discussions of Immigration Policy. But that wasn’t the point of the exercise. The point was a naked display of essentially arbitrary power, and for the most part it worked beautifully.

    There will be many more such exercises to come.

  5. V. Arnold permalink
    January 30, 2017

    Ché Pasa
    January 30, 2017

    The response transformed the government and the attitudes of Our Rulers toward the Rabble and the owners and sponsors of that government to the extent that the US today is not a recognizable entity compared to what it was Pre-Reichstag.

    I’m not sure that’s accurate to the real history of the U.S..
    Lisa, commenting above says: “Remember my rules : the US is a high violence /high bullying culture…”
    I think that’s correct, but going back to our roots in Europe; not just since 1776; or February 27, 1933 in Germany.
    I think our embodiment of violence has become genetic; the dominant gene for a number/many of centuries.
    It may be a class thing, but I’d argue otherwise. It’s all too common in our everyday culture; especially nurtured by poverty , jobless-ness, and discrimination.
    The U.S. has become so mythologised by forced education (over 100 years), propaganda, and state sponsored media in a veritable blitzkrieg, it becomes an immense, nigh on impossible to ignore distraction.
    Facts get conveniently buried requiring some actual intent and effort to uncover.
    It’s easier now because of the internet; but that in itself becomes a sand trap in the way of discovery.
    The single most valuable skill, is the nurturing of critical thinking; and a social that encourages challenges, intellectually honest challenges…

  6. Ché Pasa permalink
    January 30, 2017

    @ V. Arnold

    The violence is part of the Original Sin of the colonial and then the US enterprise. No way to get rid of it short of annihilation, and even then…

    The transformation that took place after the Reichstag incident looked a little different from the inside. Electeds were more terrified than anyone else was, and they responded with a lockdown security state. To protect themselves, not us, and mostly to protect themselves from us. I watched it happen, and it was crazy. Why, I wondered, were all these ”security” efforts focused on protecting the Government from the People when supposedly the attack was from the “terrorists?”

    How well I remember Cheney blasting his bunker-hidey-hole under the Naval Observatory mansion. To protect his cowardly self from whatever might come including pitchforks and torches.

    It wasn’t just at the federal level, it was everywhere. The fear of the rabble was palpable. Layers and layers of security made it nearly impossible for the unwashed to approach the high and the mighty. That was more important than anything else. Never again would they let themselves be as vulnerable.

    Same with their corporate overlords.

    Once security was considered sufficient, a strange sense of serenity set in. Our Rulers were convinced nothing could touch them. I’m sure they still live in that fantasy, but the advent of Trump has shattered some of their complacency.

    I’ve long maintained that the only way to stop this madness is to make it impossible for them to govern. That’s not so hard to do, but it’s risky. On the other hand, the chaos itself may put a stop to the worst of it.

    We’ll see…

  7. V. Arnold permalink
    January 30, 2017

    Ché Pasa
    January 30, 2017

    Indeed; we’ll see…

  8. January 30, 2017

    Ian–what’s your take on this:

    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.r6mchpkh8

    the author argues we’re watching a coup in action right now.

  9. Billikin permalink
    January 30, 2017

    Tom:

    “@Bilikin, Bush and Obama have already ignored the courts on torture of detainees and granting trials to those detained at Gauntanomo. Trump is no diferent.”

    That does not contradict what I said. Besides, even before Nuremberg, Americans were less likely to “just follow orders” than other peoples.

    As for Trump not being different from Bush and Obama, he has a history of skirting the law, and, as we are now seeing, he goes off half-cocked with little regard for legal boundaries. The current situation will be an interesting test case for Trump vs. the Judiciary.

  10. Peter permalink
    January 30, 2017

    I see there is plenty of drama queens here to make up a chorus line of resistance and pearl clutching now that Trump is exercising his executive power. The new affinity group is the oppressed green card holder from certain ME states who sent one hundred of their representatives to be mauled by Trump’s border lions.

    The problem was the GC holders were only inconvenienced and questioned before release and the only chaos and confusion was caused by the snowflake brigades rampaging through the airports. This actually helped with Trump’s policy change advertising worldwide that the gates are closed to certain people for a proscribed length of time.

    All that the whining classes can do is send in the lawyers now and waste more time bickering while Trump checks off another campaign promise fulfilled and moves on with his agenda.

    These chorus lines of pearl clutchers will be busy for a while and they have a new anthem to hum, I think it’s called The Tears of Schumer.

  11. realitychecker permalink
    January 30, 2017

    @ Peter

    Nobody’s ever seen Schumer cry before, so there’s that.

    Lefty judge appointed by Obama in early 2015. Always pays to check the basics.

    My prediction: Best move is to buy copies of the order and use them for toilet paper.

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