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Holy Sweet Lord, Turkey has announced they will send another flotilla to Gaza—escorted by the Turkish Navy!

2010 May 31
by Ian Welsh

If they actually do this, it is the very definition of throwing down.

Wow.

Does Israel want a war with Turkey?  They can’t win it, short of using nukes, and Turkey is a NATO member, if Israel attacks NATO ships, Turkey can invoke Article V (in fact, they can invoke it already, since the ships were attacked by a non NATO power on the high seas.)  If Turkey does so, of course NATO nations will refuse, but doing so will break NATO.

This is high stakes.

Update: I might add that in the case of a war between Turkey and Israel, if Turkey is serious, unless Israel uses nukes, my money is on the Turks.  They have a huge armored corp, and the nations between Israel and Turkey aren’t going to say no if Turkey asks for access (because if they do, Turkey will just roll right through them.)  Also if Turkey and Israel goes to war, it’s at least 50/50 the Egypt jumps in as well.

Israel is really playing with fire on this one.

Update 2: See Sean-Paul’s comments on the domestic reasons of Turkey’s reaction, and what the death of the Israeli/Turkish Entente means.

Update 3: See this analysis (h/t Pogge) for the legalities.  Short of it is that if the act wasn’t rogue, then this was an act of war, not an act of piracy.

117 Responses
  1. Otto Kretschmer permalink
    June 1, 2010

    In terms of submarines, Turks have the upper hand. They operate more German-designed submarines than Germany itself (Turkey is the biggest customer of HDW in the world):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_209_submarine

    If there’s one field in which Turkey is clearly stronger, it’s the Navy. In terms of the Army, the sheer numbers of the Turks make a lot of difference, especially in terms of howitzers and artillery rockets.

    Israel has a slight edge in terms of Air Force, not perhaps in numbers (they are equal) but in terms of air superiority jets (F-15) while the Turkish AWACS (Boeing 737 AEW&C MESA Peace Eagle) aren’t fully operational yet (they are way more high-tech than Israel’s outdated Phalcon AWACS though.) Turkey has better tanker aircraft (KC-135R-CRAG Stratotanker, versus the old 707 tankers of Israel.)

    Israel has the edge in terms of ballistic missiles and missile defense shield, but is a very small country, which is a major disadvantage (a few successful missile hits are enough to finish Israel, while Turkey is a rather large and long (east-to-west) country.)

  2. Ron permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Muslim crazies, jewish crazies, and christian crazies babbling about the anti-christ and the end times are all suffering from the same degenerate disease- semitic monotheistic fanaticism.

  3. Xi Chin permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Ron: No, just Jewish craazies. it was not Muslim’s who just brutally pirated a humanitarian aid flotilla sailing under the flag of a NATO member. No, Ron, it was a bunch of Jews who did that.

    Let’s stop this charade of “half a dozen of one, six of the other”. Sometimes, it is the case that one side is more deeply in the wrong than the other. With Isreal, this is the case through and through.

  4. Sabrina permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Great comment Xi Chin.
    It’s so rare for someone to actually say that, it’s always the “both sides are equally to blame ” nonsense that I hear. As if one could put on equal footing one of the most dangerous rogue state VS an indigenous population who is merely resisting an illegal occupation.
    Such behaviour was not tolerated in apartheid South Africa, why the obvious double standard regarding Israel?

  5. Xiao Ma permalink
    June 1, 2010

    It is not Turkey it is and always was the Jews.
    Let us not forget that Hitler himself was a Jew under his own Laws.
    This is just another move for world destruction, i.e. Lucifer’s great plan to destroy the world.
    Why?
    God = Alien.
    And it is the Anunaki Race Anu= the Sun = the children of the Sun.
    Time to wake up and destroy the Freemasons for they are behind all this.
    Time to wake up because they have no power over us if we say NO!
    Time to wake up and realize that all Governments are Jewish Freemason Pawns.
    But their power is nothing compared with our power.
    Let’s change this world for good.

  6. Olie permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Israel has lost credibility with their Nazi mentality. The way they handled the aid ships approach to Gaza while in international waters is just the latest in a long string of typical aggressive Zionist behavior. We must never forget the holocaust … of Jenin, Sabra, Shatila, and of all the others.

  7. Fani Yama permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Peace !
    If we have to stand right, just learn what jews did in whole of their history, how they fired most wars in the world, since then; and for more proof just read the last testament Holly Qur’an.
    Brotherly.

  8. paul permalink
    June 1, 2010

    If only Turkey could rid the world (especially the US) of Israel. What a wonderful world it would be.

  9. John Cooper permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Just another step along the path to global tyrrany and domination

    sponsored by The Rothschild Dynasty and their Ashkenazi friends.

    wynyardman

  10. Michael McSpadden permalink
    June 1, 2010

    How easy it is for us that have not had to endure the daily rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza to condemn Israel’s right to defend its self and its people. Why is that during the Hamas attacks from Gaza that the PA authorities condemned the attacks over and over but failed to make even one arrest in an attempt to stop them. Israel put up with the never ending rocket and mortar attacks for a very long time while they asked for help from the UN and NO ONE lifted a finger except to provide the Hamas with more money to buy the weapons with. Maybe if we the world had listened to Israel in the first place this would not have happened. If I was Israel I would list the blockade of the Gaza. The results would be obvious. The attacks would restart from Hamas almost immediately. Then I would bomb the place flat.

  11. Minnie permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Ah, yet another Jew-hater forum… Yes, the poor ‘peace’ flotilla — um — except those on board were chanting “[Remember] Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammed will return!” — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded

    In case you don’t know, that’s an Islamic battle cry invoking killing of Jews.

    ‘Peace’ activists on flotilla beating Israeli soldiers with metal pipes — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&has_verified=1

    The lies of Jenin — http://www.peacewithrealism.org/pdc/jenin.htm

    But, no worries — the left-wing anti-Israel media will all be on the side of the Islamist propagandists as per usual.

  12. Rabbit63 permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Hey all you Zionist scumbag supporters, just one thing I want to say to you all.

    FUCK YOU.

    You are a vile pack of deranged fuckwits who truly don’t even deserve to call yourselves human. Your cause is untenable and it becomes more so every week. Israel is a fake state, nothing but an ongoing military adventure and it is populated by psychopaths and godless self worshipping demons in human skin.

    Zionist supporters are the worst virus to strike humanity after the worst parasites which it appears would be the Jews in general.

    Nobody wished you harm you bastards, they just wanted you to stop harming them. Since you cannot do this, you have invited your own destruction and I sincerely believe that total eradication of “Israel” and of Jews the world over will be the inevitable result of your insane fake state antics. The time has now come when nothing but defeat is ahead of you. You will never gain another supporter, not a single one and from now on, ignorance of the truth of ISRAHELL will not be an option for the majority of ISRAHELL supporters. Thus whereas the vile Zionist infested media once could guarantee ISRAHELL the support by default of all who only knew their lies and propaganda, soon only the willfully ignorant, aka ZIONISTS will buy the bullshit. The clock is ticking scumbags, and with every tick another second less of time left for your disgusting satanic project.

    Israel and the phony Jews who populate it, Zionism and the satanically deluded scum who adhere to it, FUCK YOU!

    When your vile mistake of a state is history, I will be a happy rabbit. I will rejoice along with all the good and gentle and worthy souls. Finally I realise why the meek will inherit the earth as it becomes obvious how badly the arrogant and vicious are about to lose.

    FUCK YOU arrogant demonic scum.

  13. John Cooper permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Michael,

    Israel…..Whose land is it?

  14. holocaustralian permalink
    June 1, 2010

    To Rabbit63……..

    Yep, that just about sums it up.
    These fuckers have it coming………good and hard !!

  15. Rabbit63 permalink
    June 1, 2010

    Oh Michael McSpadden the HASBARAT, a few facts for you to mull over. I see you loyally spreading you disgusting Zionist lies and therefore I shall just stoop to correct your dribbling Jewish hatred.

    * In 7 years and a total of 8,000 rockets, (ALL FIRED AS RETALIATION FOR WORSE ISRAELI AGGRESSIONS) 20 israelis have been killed and most of them soldiers or illegal settlers. In that time more israelis died from bee stings or from peanut allergies. I have put on professional fireworks displays with more actual risk and firepower than those 8,000 mostly war head-less rockets.

    * As a comparison Rothschildlandia hurled 1.5 million tons of bombs and missiles at Gaza, a crowded city in just two weeks at Christmas of 2008, and they killed more women and children in that time, than have been killed in israel by Palestinian RESISTANCE in the history of the horrible fake state of israel.

    Now Mikey back to that cowardly israeli Christmas terrorism.
    Israel never observed the cease-fire of 2008 to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a “special security zone” within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law. Nice eh?

    Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others. Got that shithead? Rothschildlandia launched an air attack against Gaza, on November 4th. I suppose your Zionist infested media forgot to highlight that fact whislt they were stuffing your empty head full of bullshit eh? Do you know that the israeli foreign affairs site actually confirmed that Hamas was observing the ceasefire up till this time? Ironic given israel never observed it at all I’d say.

    Israel’s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December was used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but was a direct response to the Israeli attacks.

    Israel unilaterally broke the recent truce by an armed incursion on 4 November, which killed several Hamas men. In retrospect, this action must be seen as a deliberate attempt to provoke Hamas into a violent response, and thus provide Israel with a casus belli.

    Hamas has recently shown signs of moderation. Its key spokesmen — including Khaled Mish‘al, head of its political bureau — have expressed their readiness to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. To Israel’s dismay, they have begun to distance themselves from the movement’s 1987 charter, which calls for Israel’s destruction.

    Its pretty simple Mikey, the Hasbarat bozoid. You just need to have the GOD given HUMAN power of logic and answer the following questions truthfully. Something Zionists are genetically incapable of doing presumably.

    Who is the occupier? Who is the most powerful military force? Who controls and blocks the necessities of life? Who has sent raiding missions across the border most often? Who has sent artillery shells and missiles at close range into populated areas? Who has refused the repeated comprehensive peace offerings of the Arab countries issued in 2002 if Israel would agree to return to the 1967 borders and agree to the creation of a small independent Palestinian state possessing just twenty two percent of the original Palestine?

    For centuries, Torah-observant Sephardic Jews and Palestinians had lived happily together, helping each other out when needed, as good neighbors do. Then came the Ashkenazi Jews, with their forged dollars, their bombs, their assault rifles, their Babylonian Talmud, their Kabbalist Rabbis, their wicked hearts filled with hatred and violence. And so began the Palestinian holocaust. Sixty years of land theft, murder, rape, pillage, psychological trauma, false flag operations and Jewish terrorism.

    Also, Mikey, like I said before, FUCK YOU. Say hi to Satan when he sits you on your knee.

  16. Azarkhan permalink
    June 1, 2010

    ” They have a huge armored corp, and the nations between Israel and Turkey aren’t going to say no if Turkey asks for access ”

    Who is this dope Ian Welsh? As if the Syrian government would simply allow thousands of armed Turks into its country.

    Why aren’t Muslims overjoyed about the 9 dead. Aren’t the dead already in paradise with 72, or 150, or 2,000 virgins? You know, I was never clear as to what martyred women get. 90 virgin men?

  17. Ian Welsh permalink*
    June 1, 2010

    Time to close comments on this post. Thanks everyone for commenting, if you stick around in future threads, please remember that when you disagree with each other, to do so without calling each other names.

Comments are closed.