The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

We Do All Understand The Trump Play To Win The Election Even If He Loses?

Trump’s election plan (in addition to standard voter suppression, like having almost no machines in poor ridings.):

  1. Tell Republicans not to vote by mail, and claim there is a lot of fraud.
  2. Have DeJoy, his man in the Post Office slow down and damage mail delivery, slowing down ballot delivery and losing ballots.
  3. Have Republican legislatures in important states forbid counting mail in and early vote ballots before election day.
  4. If the election is close, go to court to stop the counting of votes after election day.

This isn’t obscure, this is obvious and if you don’t know this is the case you either don’t pay much attention (fair enough) or you don’t want to know it.

The most basic principle of democracy is that you count votes fairly. The Democrats are not faultless here, they went out of their way to keep Greens off the ballot and suppressed voters and slow-counted votes for Bernie Sanders. They simply aren’t doing this much against Republicans (despite various claims) because in general, higher turnouts in battleground States are good for Democrats, and voter suppression (almost always in poor and minority areas, hits Democratic voters hard.)

Trump is in the wrong right now. I don’t think it’s going to matter, because the Republican establishment isn’t lining up for him. Still, one shouldn’t entirely count out the Supremes (if it gets that far, which it may not, as I’m not sure the suits are large enough to change the end result), where it will probably come down to who owns Kavanaugh and what they want.

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Why Is The Election So Close?


It’s Essentially Over


  1. KT Chong

    Meanwhile in Georgia…


  2. KT Chong

    North Carolina as well…

    Everyone thought NC was a done deal for Trump, but now NC has a chance of flipping over to Biden as absentee ballots continue to get counted.

    The guy who wrote(?) Art of the Deal… can’t seem to close a deal! 😆

    This election might end up being an electoral blowout for Biden after all.

  3. Plague Species

    The Dems let this happen under their clueless watch. They rested on their well-padded, financially, laurels. It’s a large part of the reason the Republican Party still has power and a large part of the reason this vote is even close let alone the vote in 2016. It explains how the Dems have lost seats in the House this election versus gaining any and it helps explain how the Dems cannot gain control fo the Senate.

    This is not democracy and not even democratic. It’s fascist through and through.

    Then in 2012, the nation reelected Obama and handed Democratic congressional candidates 1.4 million more votes than their Republican rivals. But the numbers showed that, in down-ballot races, this truly was a rigged election. Courtesy of the newly gerrymandered playing field that the census and the state legislatures had created, GOP strategists had successfully built a red firewall allowing them to retain a 33-seat majority in the U.S. House, and oversize and unrepresentative majorities in state legislatures. “Once they got supermajorities in North Carolina and around the country, they began to pass voter suppression bills,” Barber said.

    Those gerrymanders have proved rock-solid over the past eight years of general political upheaval. Today, more than 50 million Americans—nearly one in five of us—live in a state in which one or both chambers of the legislature are controlled by the party that won fewer votes. And yes, all of those people live in states where Democrats won more votes but Republicans hold the power..

    Redistricting created vast swaths of GOP minority rule. The ingenuity of the high-tech gerrymanders launched after the 2010 cycle had broken down battlegrounds like Wisconsin and North Carolina into districts utterly unrepresentative of their constituencies. Harvard’s Electoral Integrity Project rated the integrity of these legislative boundaries as a 3 and 4, respectively, on a scale of 100—a magnitude lower than Iran and Venezuela. In North Carolina, half the state’s Black population found themselves pinned into one-fifth of the state’s legislative and congressional districts.

  4. KT Chong

    Plague Species, don’t be so certain.

    Georgia will likely have two run-off/second-round elections for its Senate seats… without Trump on the ballot.

    If Dems can win those two seats in the run-offs, then Dems will likely have 50 votes + 2 “independents” in the Senate who caucus with the Democratic Party, i.e., Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine.

  5. Trinity

    It’s math, across space over time.

    Localities with low populations finish their counts early. These usually lean “right”.

    Localities with high populations take longer to count. Higher population counties also have more mail in votes to count. These are usually/mostly urban. Urban areas usually lean “left”.

    So what initially looks like a solid win for the “right” slowly erodes over time as higher pop areas begin to finish and report.

    We aren’t used to seeing this phenomenon stretched out over days, where it used to be stretched out only over a few hours and a winner declared by the end of the day or very early the next.

  6. Mallam

    One would hope that this election puts to rest the idea that “better policy” would have mattered. Policy wasn’t on the ballot. Trump was on the ballot, and he turned out so many white voters that the electorate changed. It got MORE white than 2016. He pushed it up to 74% (was 73.5% in 2016). He literally forced demographic change of 4 years to not even matter. The combination of pushing white voters to the edge of turnout tsunami combined with persuading about 5% Hispanics to switch their votes to him, which is why Texas was more red than expected and he won handedly in Florida.

    So we have an election with maximum amount of turnout and it arguably hurt Democrats down ballot, but allowed them to win the presidency with split ticket voters.

  7. Joe Biden did, just about the time the central ‘leadership’ committee was bowling over the primary process and slipping him in the side door promise well-healed Wall Street donors that “Nothing Would Fundamentally Change. Never-the-less, Trump is done, stick a fork in it.

  8. Jeremy

    As Glen Greenwald recently opined: ” The U.S. Inability To Count Votes Is A National Disgrace. And Dangerous. … the credibility of the voting process is severely impaired, and any residual authority the U.S. claims to “spread” democracy to lucky recipients of its benevolence around the world is close to obliterated.”


  9. Plague Species

    Biden will not pull it off in Georgia. Close, but no cigar. They just announced from what counties the remaining votes belong, and too many votes belong to rural Trump-dominant counties for Biden to make up the difference. Biden needs 70% or more of the remaining 61,000+ uncounted votes to surpass Trump and I don’t think that 70% is there.

    North Carolina will go to Trump as well and Pennsylvania could go either way, but if I had to project, I would say Pennsylvania will be like Georgia and Trump will win it by 0.1% or 0.2%, i.e. 48.5% to 48.3%. Uncanny the vote could be this close, isn’t it? It’s a red flag for me. Especially in so many states.

    It’s now up to Arizona and Nevada. Allegedly, the remaining votes in Nevada are predominantly Las Vegas and the surrounding area and Biden has the edge but hey, you never know. Arizona is largely Maricopa county to be counted and more than likely mail-in ballots and Biden may also have the edge there in addition to the lead he already has. If Biden gets Arizona and Nevada, obviously Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Georgia are irrelevant but would still be a nice feather in his cap. He can then claim a landslide like Trump did in 2016, as if, and in effect 2020 would be a reverse of 2016 in regards to the electoral college.

  10. Plague Species

    Bullshit on that Zero Hedge article. The real investigation needs to be a scrutiny of the Trump vote. It’s unfathomable nearly 70 million people voted for this abomination.

  11. Ché Pasa

    Even if he does pull it off — and he might — I doubt he’ll be much more than the figurehead a lot of folks seemed to think he would be in his first term. I’m sure he’s being instructed in how he is to behave if things go his way again. Do nothing to interfere with the looting and rape of the working class and the earth by the Overclass and he won’t go to prison or be liquidated like a non-performing property. I’m sure his spawn are getting the same message.

    If Biden manages to squeak through, barely, well… Given the rest of the Dem catastrophes, losing seats in the house, gaining nothing in the Senate, losing or failing to pick up state houses, court solidly packed with rightists, Biden was surprisingly prescient for a doddering old git, eh? “Nothing fundamental will change.” Rs will still have the whip hand — and they’ll use it, gottdamm.

    All about preserving the status quo, you know?

  12. GlassHammer

    “this is obvious and if you don’t know this is the case you either don’t pay much attention (fair enough) or you don’t want to know it.”

    Or….. “You know it but you are wrong about what it is because you are stuck in your own preconceived mental frame regarding what is possible.” (This is your “it can’t happen here” folks, your “they cheat so we should too” folks, and the “the media is just screaming about something benign” folks.)

    Many people have such a warped idea of what it means for the process “to work” that they can’t recognize let alone understand the process “breaking”.

    By the by I was wrong on a Biden sweep because I assumed the most annoying outcome will be the most likely. Clearly everything narrowed down with razor thin margins. So the outcome to me is less annoying and more typical than expected. I am sure the outcome is jarring for many but I experienced it as revelatory.

  13. GlassHammer

    “It’s unfathomable nearly 70 million people voted for this abomination.” – Plague Species

    Well its entirely possible that it could be higher and we know he picked up a larger minority vote than he did last time.

    What might have been considered an aberration in 2016 is now a hard reality.

  14. S Brennan

    Golly Ian;

    You and our political-year-commentators seem very concerned that the drought of foreign US wars over the last four years needs to be replenished. When the D’s restart the initiation of regime-change wars that have killed millions of innocents…I will remind you Ian; you fought hard for the resumption of neocolonial wars that have pockmarked this century.

    Besides, fighting over balloting is the norm, hell, that’s how Obama got his first political job, striking people off the ballot, challenging voter ID et al*. And now…and now everything is different for the pro-Biden crowd…sheesh.

    Yeah, the DNC feeds you garbage, because you lick it off the floor while…they laugh at your silly ass. You have no right to complain, the DNC wouldn’t do it if you ever worked up enough courage to vote against them but hell, you can’t even speak against them..except like Bernie Sanders, when it doesn’t matter.


  15. BlizzardOfOzzz

    Turnout in Democrat strongholds across the Midwest was extremely high, a complete historical anomaly, higher by far in fact than Obama’s win in 2016. In Milwaukee it was 89%, with the historical average being in the 65-70% range. This points to massive fraud or ballot harvesting by the D machines using the mail ballots that they pushed for.

    It shouldn’t need saying, but sadly to D partisans it does: preventing fraudulent votes is part of a fair election. Whatever ends up happening, it has been nauseating to watch this, the last gasp of the corrupt, cynical, ossified neolib establishment.

  16. Plague Species

    Correction on Georgia. A number of those counties that comprise the 61,000+ to be counted may be rural and Trump-dominant, but the votes to be counted are mail-in votes and they are predominantly Dem, rural or not. So, it’s entirely plausible, and highly probable, Biden could get the 70% of the remaining vote he needs to win Georgia. Trump must be in full melt-down mode, apoplectic in fact, at this point. Next, he’ll instruct Barr to arrest the Bidens and the Clintons and the Obamas and have them dropped out of helicopter into the Kīlauea volcano like a proper banana republic dictator would do.

    I know, I know, and I’ve said it too, Biden won’t make much of a difference if at all, but hey, I like to see a bully like Trump wriggle and squirm. It’s worth it for the 235,000 dead Americans and counting by his cold-blooded reptilian hand.

  17. NR

    Trumpers claiming fraud with zero evidence to support that claim is pretty pathetic. Apparently it would never occur to them that maybe, just maybe, Trump isn’t god.

  18. the pair

    is trump full of it and desperate? probably. almost definitely.

    did the democrats and 99% of the media (and many corporate republicans who love “defense industry” kickbacks) spend the last 4 years screeching about the “illegitimate russian victory” of the last election? very much so.

    are the democrats saints who love the “demos” and want their every wish granted? HAHAHAHA…no. did they put more energy into crushing bernie (and susan sarandon) than into beating trump? i think we all know the answer.

    is framing opinions in question form annoying? i’m thinking it could be.

    expect 4 years of nothing happening domestically (except fracking permits being printed by the thousands) and nothing changing (at least for the better) in foreign policy. you can pick a different secretary to sit at the front desk but the C-suite never changes.

  19. Stirling S Newberry

    Trump wants Trump to win, but the phants want Trump to lose but Trumpism to win – thus in a “blue wave” election the wish away thousands of voters and thousands of ballots. If the Democrats want to govern – which is dubious – the need to go on the attack. The baby booms and there lackies do not wish to do this.

  20. bruce wilder

    the binaries, they burn . . . !

    1.) that the margin could be so close in so many states in the same election is a curious fact that ought to be explained. there is some kind of symbiosis between the parties —

    2.) Trump is a cheater is certainly true — it is written into his character to compete in this way, but I stumble in labeling the amorality the Dems bring to the contest. The Dems conspicuously never take the high road and fight for principle, they always go for a different style of cheating, which seems to me a losing strategy. Even a rank hypocrite ought to see the advantage of grabbing the white hat and wearing it, but they never do.

    3.) Mallam is always wrong in instructive ways. No, policy was not on the table, so normal logic would say what was tested was the Dem idpol strategy of demographic hegemony.

    3a) Whites are three-quarters of the voting population and many hispanics and Indian immigrants identify as “white” (just as many previous Catholic ethnics of the 1930s migrated into the cultural majority by 1970), so a demographic strategy is futile.
    3b) “Trump is a fascist white supremicist” was never an accurate characterization of his appeal. Trump lost support among white males compared to 2016 and gained support from all other demos, including blacks for whom he did make high-profile policy gestures.
    3c) The demographic strategy / Lincoln Project / nothing will change plus pro-war, pro-security-state strategy is not winning downballot in many states. There is a lot that ought to be said about why the Dem establishment clings to the idpol/neoliberal policy strategy, even though it keeps the Party from the levers of power, including control of state legislatures in decennial years. They want to decry the unfairness that follows as racial injustice, but they are not willing to risk a 50-state strategy or a populist policy stance.

  21. BlizzardOfOzzz

    NR, what would you call the votes cast in Michigan by people older than the oldest person who ever lived?

    Trump is going to fight this tooth and nail. As everyone knows, this is the real reason why you hate Cheeto Hitler more than any of the previous Hitlers.

  22. NR

    Blizzard, I’d call it the typical right-wing bullshit that your side peddles as a matter of course these days.

    The lengths you guys will go to to avoid admitting that your Dear Leader isn’t the infallible god you believe him to be are really quite something to see.

  23. BlizzardOfOzzz

    LOL!! NR, buddy, your gay Snopes link doesn’t even claim to have debunked it.

    Although we haven’t yet been able to definitively determine whether this content is accurate or authentic, we have observed that it has certain traits that are often indicative of misinformation:

    Snopes could verify it, as have I, as could you or anyone, on the Michigan SOS vote tracking page. He seems so reticent to verify verifiable facts … yet Snopes is an honorable man.

  24. Plague Species

    Trump is bending over backwards to delay the vote counting long enough until the deadline to count is reached. In Philadelphia, he managed to get the vote count suspended, temporarily at least, in order to allow his observers to get close enough to grab the vote counters’ pussies apparently. Thankfully, that’s been settled and the vote counters pussies are safe for now and they can resume counting and Pennsylvania expects most of the remaining votes will be counted by end of the day today. Current trends indicate Biden will take Pennsylvania. In Allegheny county, Trump’s doing the same thing in getting the vote count delayed. Once again, it’s amazing, and tragic if it’s true and not cheating, that nearly 70 million people voted for this pernicious scumbag. He’s the opposite of everything you teach your children in regard to principles and values. Poor sport, for example. If possible, and in Trump’s case it is, he’s even worse than a poor sport.

  25. Plague Species

    Trump is going to fight this tooth and nail. As everyone knows, this is the real reason why you hate Cheeto Hitler more than any of the previous Hitlers.

    Since when is wetting and soiling your pants fighting tooth and nail?

    Biden now has this in the bag and we’re just days, if not a day, away from Trump goading his supporters to assassinate Biden and he’s free to do so because the POTUS can apparently do anything he damn well pleases without recourse.

  26. S Brennan

    Biden is a dead man walking but not because some internet idiot claims “Trump [is] goading his supporters to assassinate Biden” but because Harris=Hillary and…Hillary will make more money running the China Inc. quisling racket without Biden & family getting their cut. Look for the Hillary faction to have Biden impeached after mid-terms. This time the media kept Candidate[D]’s damning emails censored long enough for low information voters but, they clearing indicate Joe Biden is a quisling of China Inc. And Hillary, though a quisling herself, will aid the R’s in deposing Biden as she did with Nixon.

    Hillary is a very dirty girl and Harris is her bitch.

    The pro-Biden/DNC commenters here are too funny…you are not liberal, you are not lefty, you are not progressive, you are gilded-age-econs-[sans mercantilism] and neocolonialists, just pathetic cheerleaders wearing the blue uniform.

    That’s why “the DNC feeds you garbage like Biden, because you lick it off the floor and they laugh at your silly ass. You have no right to complain, the DNC wouldn’t do it if you ever worked up enough courage to vote against them but hell, you can’t even speak against them..except like Bernie Sanders, when it doesn’t matter.”

  27. Willy

    So lets support a lying sack of shit instead. Yeah, that’ll show em.

  28. Chicago Clubs

    >Snopes could verify it, as have I, as could you or anyone, on the Michigan SOS vote tracking page

    So do it and post the proof here, then.

  29. S Brennan

    To all the Trump=Hitler, Trump~Hitler, Trump=>Hitler, Trump=Hitler+/-xy, therefore, Biden, as this year’s “DNC’s shit sandwich”, tastes really, really good commenters…not just Willy.

    That’s why “the DNC feeds you garbage like Biden, because they know you’ll lick it off the floor while they laugh at your silly ass. You have no right to complain, the DNC wouldn’t do it if you ever worked up enough courage to vote against them but hell, you can’t even speak against them..except like Bernie Sanders, when it doesn’t matter.”

    Look at yourselves. You are not just being degraded involuntarily, you are encouraging the DNCers to go farther next time. Any DNCer can see, you’re spineless wimps. Live with it.

  30. Ten Bears

    Wipe your chin, Brennen, you’re frothing. Maybe you should see a doctor.

    We’ve wasted a lot of ink ‘n air decrying Our Very Own Very Stable “J is for Jenious” Jenious Tea Pot Dictator and Putin’s plot to install a Russian Hooker in The White House, and paid scant attention to the traitor married to a Communist Chinese Princess who has under the cover of all the confusion been systematically dismantling “America”. For twelve years the son of a bitch has obstructed any progress this country might have made, and for the past four Donald J Drumpf uck has been nothing but the distraction necessary for him to complete his mission. We’ve all had one pulled over on us, “America’s” great national past-time: pullin’ one over; been hoodwinked, spent a little too much time staring at the white, neurotic no doubt sexually frustrated boney, bottle-blonde bimbo’s lack of underwear.

    It is to be hoped Senate President Kamala Harris’ prosecutorial skills will put an end to this bullshit. It needs to end. I don’t give a fuck if Kentucky ‘elected’ it, I think a little forensics ought be applied to Kentucky’s nineteenth century vote tabulation system, something stinks down there. The Chinese can hack too.

    I closed out the George Bush occupancy with the observation that while he may have been the Worst President Ever the Cheney Administration accomplished everything it set out to. While history, if there is a history, may now record Trump as the Worst President Ever … the McConnell Administration accomplished everything it set out to. And then some. History, if there is a history, will rank Mitch McConnell along side Benedict Arnold as the penultimate traitor.

  31. Willy

    Progressives supporting an anti-democratic authoritarian (the reasons why Trump is such being explained all too clearly in the post) will not gain progressives support from anybody in the more moderate direction.

    They will simply think that progressives want an authoritarian to own their lives, ala Stalin.

    Good luck with your ad hominem nonsense, Brennan.

  32. NR

    LOL! Blizzard, buddy, you gotta read. The Michigan Secretary of State has already refuted this garbage.

    In response to our inquiries, a spokesperson for Michigan’s secretary of state effectively refuted claims that the content in question constituted evidence of electoral fraud. In an emailed statement sent to Snopes, the spokesperson explained that, even where discrepancies or clerical errors take place, safeguards are in place that ensure that no invalid ballots are counted:

    “Ballots of voters who have died are rejected in Michigan, even if the voter cast an absentee ballot and then died before Election Day. On rare occasions, a ballot received for a living voter may be recorded in a way that makes it appear as if the voter is dead. This can be because of voters with similar names, where the ballot is accidentally recorded as voted by John Smith Sr when it was actually voted by John Smith Jr; or because of inaccurately recorded birth dates in the qualified voter file; for example, someone born in 1990 accidentally recorded as born in 1890. In such scenarios, no one ineligible has actually voted, and there is no impact on the outcome of the election. Local clerks can correct the issue when it is brought to their attention.”

    So this is a great big nothing, just like all the other lies you constantly throw out. After this, you’ll just move on to the next lie, and the one after that, because that’s all you right-wingers do. It’s been this way for decades now and it’s clearly not going to change anytime soon.

  33. S Brennan

    Wow, listen to these guys grovel before Biden. All claim to have been Sanders supporters and yet, they now appear to be Biden all the way. One suspects Sanders knew his supporters were faking their virtue and why he didn’t taking them seriously, why he was coordinating his “exit” with Obama for three months prior to his “exit”.

    That’s why the DNC feeds the proles garbage like Biden, because they know Sander supporters will lick it off the floor while they laugh at your silly ass. Just look at yourselves. You have no right to complain, hell, you can’t even speak against the DNC’s worst excesses…except like Bernie Sanders, when it doesn’t matter.”

    The reaction here is a prescription for an evermore right-wing DNC, the Sanders supporters online love whatever they are given by the DNC that’s why the DNC publicly brags about what a bunch of losers Sander supporters are.

  34. Willy

    We have to outthink the corporate strategists. Outshitting them isn’t the same thing.

  35. Mallam

    Bruce: the argument is that policy didn’t matter because what is on the ballot is Trump himself and what he represents. What was on offer was “Trump” and “Trumpism”. This fuses partisan Republicans who want to own the libs with Trump’s specific machismo appeal.

    If you’re citing exit polling for your numbers I suggest you not do that, given that they project the electorate as 65% white. That does not make sense under any mathematical sense with the sheer number of voters and where they came from. This is not an argument of “demos are destiny” at all. Indeed, did you not see me say “Trump persuaded 5% of Hispanics nationally to switch”. But the question is: why did they switch? You’re not going to like the answer if you’re arguing from a left wing perspective. Trump’s numbers did not change with black voters much if at all. Like 12% black men and 6% black women. More or less same as last time, and this could even be an overestimate of his support. Maybe some movement towards Biden nationally, in fact. Stop citing exit polls and look at actually verified voter data. We will know the full analysis later.

    Far be it from me to suggest never making changes to policy that are more popular — increased minimum wages, paid leave (Colorado), capping interest rates (Nebraska), decriminalizing all drugs (Oregon). But you need proofs of concepts for the policies. These are all examples of specific policy that won on their own and can be used to develop a platform. “Medicare for all” is not a popular slogan or platform, and never has been. A public option seems reasonably popular and it is corrupt that Obama did not insist on including one.

  36. js

    Of course ever more deranged Republicans like Trump (and they were already pretty deranged without him) are ALSO part of a prescription for an ever more right wing DNC, but that part never gets analyzed if your purpose is to find some apology for Trump, the interaction of the whole two party system, it’s all just analyzed as if there were only a Dem party. But in reality the worse Republicans get the more people would vote for a rock just to get rid of them as well. So it too lowers the bar.

  37. js

    What proof of concept is there for a public option? I suppose one could say existing Medicare is the “public option” as it now contains private (Medicare Advantage) options that are being used more and more as well as the original (public option) Medicare.

    But if that was one’s end goal why would they not just say “the existing Medicare system exactly like it is now except to be available for people of all ages”? Why would you confuse people with a term for a system that doesn’t exist nor have any proof of concept like “public option”. If single payer is what one is after though, it too of course has more proof of concept than the “public option”, just mostly other countries of course. The public option strikes me as the one option with no proof of concept.

  38. Thomas Golladay

    You are all missing the real reason why we are in this mess:

    They stopped the counts at 10pm in these states, sent the poll workers and watchers home. Then the polls reopened without observers, and independent media types saw kooky business, some people came forward about non-valid ballots being brought in and it snowballed.

    Had they worked through the night under observation, this would not have happened. Now a credible claim of vote rigging can be sustained.

    And the country is a powderkeg waiting to go off.

  39. Mallam

    JS: I judge policy based on how it does at the ballot, which has a way of revealing voter preferences more than issue polling. I still like issue polling, it can inform. But any time single payer is on the ballot it has lost. But people like the idea of a “choice” rather than forced. This is why the insurance mandate was fucking toxic and Obama was a fool for implementing it. Medicaid expansion is popular. Pass that. Increase the “poverty” limit to qualify and just auto-enroll anyone not insured into Medicaid.

  40. Thomas Golladay

    Time for another back to the basics to sum up this mess”

    2016: DNC and RNC met and planned out how to fuck everyone except Wall Street Over and select the face of the representative of Wall Street.

    DNC 2016’s one job: Keep a progressive off the ballot and divide people with Identity Politics and troll them. They succeeded.

    RNC 2016’s one job: Keep a populist off the ballot and push Good Christian Values and troll us. They failed.

    Hillary’s one job: Clean up the RNC’s mess for them and get back to screwing over main street. She failed.

    Trump won, but is too undisciplined and wild to be effective, but the base adheres to him and the RNC fears their base and can’t figure out a way to dump Trump without starting a war.

    The final fall back for the DNC and RNC now that Biden can’t deliver is to 12th Amendment Trump out for Pence, but not be so blatant that the Trump Base goes to open warfare.

    Problem is both sides are holding a lit match next to gasoline of their own making and whatever they do, they’re fucked.

    So be it.

  41. Plague Species

    Trump will be a steroidal albatross around Biden’s neck for the next four years if Biden lives that long. Biden and the Dems are going to have to deal with McDonald Trump. They can’t ignore him. He won’t go away. Lock the son of a bitch up once he’s forcibly removed from the White House. I don’t want unity with Trump and his loathsome supporters. They don’t need to be coddled and cuddled. Instead, they need to be put down. For good. Absent that, there can never be any progress whatsoever and progress absent that is already tough enough to come by as it is.

    Trump has already told his staff that if he loses these legal challenges, and he will, he will start campaigning again for 2024 and holding rallies on the taxpayers’ dime, like the socialist he is, until January. Even then, he will continue his rallies and it will still be somewhat on the taxpayers’ dime considering his SS detail. I would like to see him stripped of his SS detail. He should have to provide his own protection on his dime or on Putin’s dime considering he’s several hundred million dollars in debt to Putin and Putin’s crooked Russian Oligarch capos.

  42. Hugh

    Trump lost. It is interesting to see the resulting whirlwind of attacks and accusations from the Trump trolls to deny and distract from this “impossibility.” Obviously, there had to be massive vote fraud. How do we know this? Because Trump lost. Demanding more evidence than this just shows a lack of faith. And, and look over there. Why didn’t non-Trumpers attack Democrats more? Maybe if they had, Trump would have won. See, it’s not the Trumpers’ fault. It is all of us who didn’t support Trump. We didn’t do enough to help him win, or something.

  43. Thomas Golladay

    Viva la Frei breaks down the current lawsuits.

    Trump has valid grounds to sue. A foundation has been laid and the courts must hear and rule.

    Buckle up, this is it.

  44. Hugh

    js, back during the 2009-2010 great healthcare “debate”, the public option was a con Obama ran to gain progressive support for Obamacare. Thing was it never was defined. A feature, not a bug. It started out like it could have covered tens of millions and went sharply downhill from there. I used to call it the incredible shrinking public option. When Obama didn’t need progressive support anymore for the bill, he ditched it. Surprise, surprise.

  45. NL

    If this were Trump’s plan, it was stupid and he deserves to go.

    It is like scoring a touchdown to lead by less than a score and turning the ball to a team led by Tom Brady with more than two minutes left in the fourth. In this case of course, it is not two minutes left, but days.

  46. Thomas Golladay

    Whether you agree or not, his logic can’t be faulted. And its irrelevant. The damage is done. We as a nation aren’t coming back from this.

    America’s descent into full 3rd World Failed State Shithole is complete. The Government has lost all legitimacy and no one can claim victory.

    We brought it upon ourselves by not replacing our out of date Constitution.

  47. BlizzardOfOzzz

    Hugh – no, nothing is proven, but we all saw what happened. Trump won Florida and Ohio by huge margins. He was ahead big in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania with most of the vote counted, and seemingly minutes from winning, when suddenly all 3 of those Democrat-run states stopped counting their votes. Then in the dead of night, Michigan and Wisconsin (poll watchers having been sent home) suddenly found a huge trove of votes for Biden, which conveniently put him just ahead in those two states.

    Nothing is proven, but let’s just say Putin instead of Biden was the beneficiary of that kind of scenario, we all know exactly what you would think.

  48. Zachary Smith

    “Whether you agree or not, his logic can’t be faulted.”

    The video was over an hour and a half long. A black Trump supporter was the speaker, and after a few minutes of listening to his incoherent rambling I googled the guy. He has a web site, and the top story there trashes Breonna Taylor as being a criminal who got what she deserved. Zipping through the piece and stopping at random points, I finally learned that Georgia had no right to have run-off elections when a Republican was 100,000 votes in the lead. Also, it is unthinkable Trump would be in a squeaker election there when the other Republicans were doing so well.

    “Logic” dictates that the corrupt and incompetent Orange Psycho is universally popular even with Republicans.

    Perhaps Officer Tatum is a bit blinded by his devotion.

  49. Thomas Golladay

    @ Zachary Smith

    Breonna Taylor’s name was on the warrant after a multi-year investigation. It was a knock and announce. Her boyfriend opened fired first and used her as a shield. They have him on a recorded line discussing criminal activity. Its open and shut.

    Does Tatum toot his horn. Yes. Doesn’t make him wrong. He also was a poll worker in the past and knows this is kooky.

    But you know what, I don’t care what you think anymore. The DNC and RNC have already won. Nothing will fundamentally change. Not this cycle, but they did sow the seeds of their own destruction.

    Lindsey Grahm senses this and now has joined Trump in calling this rigged. The rest of the GOP will fall in line as the base Trump has built turns on them and forces their loyalty. Some are already calling on GOP State Legislatures to implement Article II section 1 paragraph 2:

    “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.”

    All of this is legal. And irrelevant. Wake up, we have been getting trolled with the illusion of choice. If Trump has done one good thing, he has pulled the veil off the entire charade of us Voters having a choice. That and he will burn the house down. So be it, the house is full of black mold anyway.

  50. From “GOP Slammed for Silence amid Election Chaos: Cowering to the ‘Media Mob’ @ breitbart:

    Other GOP figures have been less overt in their skepticism of the president’s efforts, remaining largely silent throughout the process. Few, including Sens. Josh Hawley (R-MO), Tom Cotton (R-AR), Ted Cruz (R-TX), and Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), have spoken out.

    Trump is getting stabbed in the back by other Republicans! If he survives into a 2nd term, I don’t see how he could forget this. Maybe he will evolve into an actual leader of a movement that has real potential for reforming the Republican Party.

    Although I view Trump as a crass business type, whose empathy for us little people takes a back seat to loyalty to his own class of billionaires, and his narcissism, he seemed genuinely touched by the outpouring of love and enthusiasm he received during his recent rallies. It would be an amazing development if he became a genuine populist, from the mostly fake populism he exhibited during his first term. He’s certainly seen more love from us little people, than the swamp creatures he SAID he was running against, in 2016.

    I’m listening to Laura Ingraham as I write this, and Kevin McCarthy (House minority leader) just said that many Rs from the House of Republicans are fighting for a fair election. OTOH, from the breitbart article

    Adding to the fury is a Thursday report from Axios that cited a “source close to McConnell” who said that the Senate “would work with Biden on centrist nominees but no ‘radical progressives’ or ones who are controversial with conservatives.”

  51. NR

    Here is an excellent Twitter thread debunking all of the right’s bullshit allegations about voter fraud, including the “Michigan and Wisconsin manufactured a bunch of votes for Biden” one:

    Remember: right-wingers lie. That’s what they do.

  52. Willy

    Burn schmurn. Only Trump is gonna lose. What the hell did Trump ever burn except for respect for respectable institutions, and worse, “political outsiders”? He came, he lied, and did nothing.

    All of the moldiest of Republican incumbents remain. The worst of them, Turtleman, has threatened to do everything in his power to limit Biden’s cabinet to, at the leftmost, corporate moderates. Hopefully they wont be as swampy as Trumps sycophantic henchmen.

    But it does give people more time to showcase the greedy, corrupt, stupid and crazy which is so overrepresented in the right wing, as well as the weak and compliant amongst the left.

  53. Thomas Golladay

    Folks the legal case is being laid out and the Democrats have given Trump his opening.

    All of this could have been avoided if they had counted through election night with observers present and finished in the morning. States with more votes to count got it done quickly.

    The burden of proof is now on the Democrats to prove that vote rigging did not occur. Especially now that the Republican base is riled up and has bitchslapped the GOP Senators and Representatives back in line.

    Shooting starts up, the Democrats caused it as they can’t even rig an election properly and believably. They lost their touch.

    And in the end we all lost. So be it.

  54. Willy

    The burden of proof is now on the Democrats to prove that vote rigging did not occur.

    Sean Hannity?

    You prove first that you aren’t working from a troll pen, with long hours and for peanut wages.

  55. KT Chong

    On Thursday Trump went on the TV and whined and whined and whined about Georgia for over 10 minutes, which could only mean one thing… 🤔

    He knew he was gonna lose Georgia.

  56. Temporarily Sane

    S Brennan is right about “left wing” Biden voters being a bunch of spineless masochists. I would add that they don’t understand how political leverage works. If your candidate/party promises to implement policies you support but never delivers them when they’re elected, what do you do?

    If you’re a Democrat you keep voting for them anyway because…the other party’s guy is Satan, you can “push” the Democratic president “to the left” and four years from now the “real” leftists will be running the party.

    The DNC shysters and party brass love you because they know they can count on your vote even if they screw you over and spit in your face. They’ve been doing it for 40 years and still the Dem faithful come crawling back! Even the “anarchist” Noam Chomsky partakes in this masochistic ritual!

    It’s a very strange phenomenon. The Dem left gets consistently bent over a barrel by the Democratic Party yet faithfully gives it their vote every single time. I wonder if similar displays of ritual electoral masochism happen in other countries too or if this is a wholly American idiosyncrasy?

  57. Hugh

    The Trumper breakdown and angst continue. Reality is the one that’s wrong. Just stare into the sun long enough and you will see. Make up some stupid argument based on made up evidence and you can “prove” it too. I would suggest doubling up on your anti-depressants but I think you are already doing that.

  58. anon

    Dems and Repubs are hypocrites as both have been guilty of voter disenfranchisement. Funny how Buttigieg declared himself a winner before all votes were counted in Iowa but now he and Democrats think it’s wrong when Trump does the same thing. They can all go to hell.

  59. Willy

    They hate us for our freedoms, our spineless masochists, and our crazy cult zombies.

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