The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

The ICJ Genocide Case Is No-Win For The Rules Based Order

Has been brilliantly presented by the South African lawyers, with some assists.

I don’t want to waste your time, though. Israel is committing genocide. Everyone knows it and yes, it meets the legal definition.

But the case is a thing of beauty, because whatever the ICJ decides way the outcome is almost the same:

If the ICJ orders an restraining order America, Israel and most of Europe will ignore the order. This will discredit the post-war “rules based international order”. It will be seen as a joke.

If the ICJ doesn’t order a restraining order when everyone can see, in real time, the genocide happening, the post-war rules based international order will be discredited.

The only difference is is that if the ICJ does its job, the ICJ itself may survive into the new order.

It’s interesting to me that the current order is in this “no win” situation. They feel they must support Israel, but doing so is losing them massive legitimacy. They have no way out.





Understanding Morality


Open Thread


  1. Curt Kastens

    The ICJ case is not a bit different than the case of the US Constitution in 2003. The invasion of Iraq was a large violation of the Constitution that anyone with an ounce of integrety could recognize. But no case was ever brought to the Supreme Court to force the Justices in to impeaching themselves. But even the fact that no case was put before the court was enought to discredit the entire government for anyone with any integrity.
    But the lack of Judicial Oversight in 2003 was not exactly ground breaking. There was that case involving the Cherokee that went before the Supreme Court back in President Jackson’s time and President Jackson just ignored the court’s fooling.
    That is why the US Marshal Service should work for the Supreme Court. And these Marshals should be fanatical enough to be more than willing to have a shoot out with the Secret Service if the Secret Service is protecting people who refuse to enforce court rulings when it is their job to do so.

  2. Feral Finster

    Regardless how the ICJ rules, Israel is committing genocide in plain sight.

    The question is how to enforce any ruling that Israel and its American attack dog do not like.

  3. StewartM

    Curt Kastens

    We’re slouching towards a state where the US Constitution really is “just a piece of paper” as George W. Bush allegedly once called it. The courts can’t or won’t declare unconstitutional wars what they are, they ever more chop down the 4th amendment rights against search and seizure, we imprison people without due process (unreasonable bails that the poor cannot pay), and most bet the US Court won’t uphold the 14th amendment clause against giving aid and comfort to an insurrection against Trump even though this is a transparently open-and-shut case.

    The very reason why justices are unelected is so they can make difficult, even unpopular, decisions. But the history of our Constitution shows that they never do this, at least when it’s both unpopular or the interests of the donor classes are threatened. They’re fine with standing aside and seeing the rights of little people chopped up until the point that becomes unpopular. Part of the reason this is so is that the Constitution foolishly allows appointment to be the sole discretion of ONE person (the president) instead of having that be the result of a group of people.

    So what use are they?

  4. Curt Kastens

    Stewart M.,
    I agree.
    The US military and the US government have turned the US constitution in to a piece of toilet paper. The US Supreme Court is workthless.

  5. Mark Level

    So the best piece I saw on the South African (& Irish & Brit) advocates against the open Israeli genocide on YTube today was by Owen Jones at

    No surprise that an Irish person would get what comes with decades (or centuries) of Occupation & cultural & physical violence tantamount to genocide. (A quarter Irish myself, don’t know all the details but on dad’s side they were forced out, most likely by the deliberately engineered potato famine.)

    The Due Dissidence podcast is doing better audience-wise & has always been strong content-wise. They had a nice piece today on the (brain-damaged) fascist “Lib” John Fetterman standing at a podium and yelling at S. Africa to STFU, ‘coz what do they know about apartheid, racism & genocide, nuffin’, amrite? In the USA even the “Libs” (they sure ain’t left, & want you to know it) can be arrogant, screeching white supremacists.

    I currently put the odds at 40/60 that no one will be able to restrain US-Israel & they may murder up to 70% of the currently remaining Palestinians & possibly force the survivors into exile. I guess only about 15% of the US population is even paying attention, & of course the MSM stenographers are NOT eager to discuss the case at all– maybe NPR (which I no longer listen to since Feb. 2022 given their 100% lying about Ukraine v. Russia & how the plucky & “democratic” Ukies will beat the big bad Bear) will give it a 4 minute item to pretend not to be complicit?

    I agree with Ian’s overall point, the RoW (rest of world) knows exactly what is happening, as do a lot of US youth & people of color. Not that the Elites care a whit, they know “democracy” died decades ago (with BushCo’s open steal of the 2000 election or 9/11 depending on who you ask.) I certainly don’t agree with Curt K’s assertion, Orange Mussolini or the shambling Biden Borg, it makes no difference, we’ll get the same arsenic sandwiches to choose from at election time (one’s 98.7% arsenic and the other 97.2%). Anyway the Empire is falling to pieces, in the future, ‘Muricans will be considered by 95% of the RoW as toxic monsters, in 30 years or less we’ll be the ones being caged, sanctioned and hated. And that is the fate the Empire has decreed.

  6. Mark Level

    Oops!! Accidentally replied to Stewart M. talking to Curt Kastens. Funny, we usually agree, I think we recently did so on the fact that the D/R duopoly will NOT split, as Ian said recently. Anyway, to Kurt, as Emily Littela used to say, “Never mind!”

  7. Olivier

    @Ian Slightly off-topic maybe but what I feared (in another thread) has just happened: the US and UK a dozens sites in Yemen, including the capital Sanaa, with doubtless more to come. Meanwhile it’s business as usual in Gaza and shipping is just a tad more expensive. Explain me again what was the point of Yemen getting involved?

  8. Feral Finster

    @Stewart and Carstens:

    “We’re slouching towards a state where the US Constitution really is “just a piece of paper” as George W. Bush allegedly once called it.”

    The U.S. Constitution has long been a dead letter. Just say the magic words “Muh National Security Abracadabra” and The Bill Of Rights disappears.

    Snark aside, Celines Second Law reads something like this “Accurate communication is only possible in a non-punishing situation”. This is sometimes phrased that “accurate communication is only possible between peers.” Otherwise, you tell the boss what he wants to hear.

    I would take it one step further and say that meaningful communication is only really possible between peers, because otherwise the King will just redefine words to suit his purposes at the moment, “Seems that ‘unlawful search and seizure’ only applies to Crown Prince Hunter’ but when the home of the King’s restive subjects are getting ransacked on any pretext then it’s totally legit, not even a search at all!”

  9. mago

    It’s like having a prominent wart on your nose and saying no, it’s your faulty perception.
    Sheesh. It’s a mucky murky mess.
    A septic boil, a festering pustule and above all a travesty of historical proportions.
    But let’s hold hands, close our eyes and sing Kumbaya, or maybe do the hokey pokey. . .
    We’re all so screwed.
    Sorry amigos.
    There are no unicorns or rainbows here, but there’s always sunset’s beauty. . .

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