The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Open Thread

Use to discuss topics unrelated to recent posts.


“Construction of Reality” Chapter 3: Being Aware


Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – December 10, 2023


  1. msg

    Have you heard the news today oh boy it’s all about a lucky man who made the grade. . .
    Woke up/got out of bed/dragged a comb across my head/ found my way way downstairs and had a cup/looking up I noticed I was late/grabbed my coat and grabbed my hat/made the bus in seconds flat/found my way upstairs and had a smoke and went into a dream. . . I’d love to turn you on. . .
    Too late for that
    The world’s on fire
    And nobody seems to give a shit
    Bang bang he shot me down bang bang I hit the ground bang bang my baby shot me down
    Fuck Hollywood is all I’ve got to say

  2. Mark Level

    Good point, msg!! The people who count are making bank, their well-paid shills in the MSM continue with the happy talk about “savages” getting their due, it turns out blood money is good in the 21st century economy. Guns yes, butter no, & the proles are too beat down & just trying to survive, keep their mouths shut so they won’t be canceled or sent to the Gulag like Assange & (tho’ he’s less admirable) Gonzalo Lira. The Black Iron Prison is here in the West, but 85% or more of RoW knows, the US Empire is tottering & will never recover.

    Perhaps in 20 years there will be a US Civil War, the South can secede, re-establish chattel slavery for “those” people, etc. Evidently evolution happens within species, but it has stopped in much of the human race, stupified by screen-time. Maybe it is time for the AI Algorithm Robots to take over?

  3. StewartM

    Ran across an article which exposes our betters’ (aka our ‘useless eaters’) ruse to delay (thus cut) our pensions and SS:

    Which references this WHO site:,to%2063.7%20years%20in%202019.

    Which, country by country, predicts using current data what someone’s *healthy lifespan* will be. A ‘healthy lifespan’ would generally correspond to ‘how many years could I expect to be healthy enough to work?”

    As you can see, countries that have real health care systems have longer ‘healthy lifespans’ than does the US (not a surprise). There are even some countries on the list (Thailand, Peru, Ecquador, Turkey, China) that beat u. What you also see is that our healthy lifespan, just 66.1 years, is already *SHORTER* than one’s eligibility to draw upon full SS (which the way it was designed, was not supposed to be sufficient to live upon; having enough to survive also depended on both having savings and a private pension).

    This is why I favor both doubling the current SS payouts, and also lowering the eligibility tier years from 62-66.5-70 to 59-62-67. The people who promote delaying eligibility, who say “oh, but all you’ll have to do is to work a few more years!” KNOW that you’ll likely not be healthy enough to wait that long, that your body will break down before you reach that age, and thus they will get by with paying you less. It’s a “solution” for them, not one for you.

  4. Curt Kastens

    RE: The Link to the New Yorker article,
    Thank you for providing the link.
    Does deep fake photography really create a greater danger the people will be manipulated by false information? Because reality clearly collapsed in 2020 if not in not much sooner, say 2016 or 2008 or 2002 or 1991 or 1980 it appears to me that this new technology only causes the collapse of the ruble of reality to put it terms that was used by the author of the article.
    We can deduce from this capabilty to manipulate peoples perspecitves that the human understandinf of the masses of people relating to the collapse of industrial civilization and the extinction of humanity after that will be manipulated to such a point that the masses will not understand why it is all happening. Their anger will be directed to phoney causes.
    Of course at some point the abilty to manipulate the masses will collapse as well along with everything else. But the masses will be left trying to work things out with many false impressions clouding their understanding of the events that are overtaking them.
    Events that are killing them to be more precise.

  5. Curt Kastens

    some important apparently public information that could be false.
    1.) The world’s proven oil reserves. There is a lot of motive for countries and corporations to overstate reserves. There might even be reasons to understate reserves.
    2.) That the governments of the world are trying everthing that they can to stop the world wide illegal drug trade.
    3.) That the worlds elected representives have control over the world’s militaries because of adequate oversight.
    3.1) A collarary of that would be that the world’s rich people, like the Koch’s or the Murdochs or the Waltons have indirect influence on the governments foriegn and defence policies due to their “control” over an executive or legislative branch of a governemnt.
    4.) The rate of inflation
    5.) The rate of unemployment
    6.) The rate of poverty
    7.) The death rate
    8.) The causes of death
    9.) Everything about pre covid, covid and post covid.
    10.) Agricultural production
    11.) Industrial production
    12.) IQ test scores
    13.) Any historical incident that has ever been written or spoken about
    14.) Why the stock market went up or down for the day
    15.) Any publically released polling information
    A bakers dozen is a good list.

  6. Curt Kastens

    Maybe we can hope that both Joe Biden and Donald Trump will be in prison by November 2024. That would be an interesting developement.

    On another subnect all together. On of the most important things I learned when I was over 50 is why many white people do not support affirmative action.

    I used to think that it was just do to the fact that in states where 25% or or 30% of the population was African American the whites would be much more likely to feel threatened by the policy than in a state where only 5% or less where African American.

    It was only when I was over 50 that I came to figure that there is also an economic factor that would effect whether or not a white person would support affirmative action.

    If America corrected only is past racial injustices then it would imply that African American decendents of slavery would be equally represented at each level in America’s economic pyramid. That means 1in8 in each percentile of wealth and or income.

    Well because the income and wealth pyramid of Americans looks more like the Eiffel tower than an Egyptian pyramid most of the activity is not going to be taking place near the top. And if a white person at the pinacle of economic power gets replaced by an African American decendent of slaves that person is not going to fall very far.
    If the 8 richest Americans are now all white and one of them gets displaced by an African American that displaced white person will still be in the richest 80 peeple in America club. A still super commfie position to be in.
    But once we move down to the richest 80 million Americans, I guess that would still be the top half depending on whether we are talking families or wage earners, it could be the top 25%. Well then there would be millions of African Americans moving in to new positions at that level and millions of white people who would have to drop in to lower levels of economic power.
    Well being in the bottom half of wealth in American society sucks to start with. It is certianly not fair that African Americans have to disproportionately occupy these postions due to unfair historical policies. They as a group deserve better.
    But if they were to get better that means millions of white people, would have to trade places with them. And lower the socio economic level is that those white people occupy the greater the chances are that they are going to be the ones that have to move down the socio economic ladder.
    This is important because for most of my life I really hated white rednecks. But once I came to realize the real reason why white rednecks support policies that impoverish black communities. I realized that as a college educated white person I was being a hypocrite. I was expecting poor white people to be willing to take risks to fix a problem that I did not have to take.
    I found this realization very troubling. Because it means that one can never really expect to gain the support of poor white people to correct a historical injustice.
    Maybe it would be possible to get poor white people to support socialism (if American societiy could be purged of lying weasels). Socialism would make the problem of of an unequal quality of life between whites and decendents of slavery less accute. But socialism alone would not properly solve the problem.
    Years ago I did come up with a plan to solve the problem once and for all. Step one would have been a job guarrantee for all Americans over the age of 17. Step two would have been to create a tribal institution that would have served as institution to represent decendents of slaves in negotiations with the US government. Essentially it would have given African Americans decendents of slavery the same status as the tribal governments of native americans. This tribal government would have been responsible for the distribution of repatriations to the African Americans of the United States. A lot of nitty gritty details would have to be worked out by this tribal government. For example should a person with one African American Grandparent and three white grandparents be granted the same level of participation in tribal affairs as someone with all four grandparents being African American. Then when it comes to repatriations should a black millionaire be allowed to recieve any money. I am sure that many black millionairs have suffered some very annoying social snubs or perhaps problems with the police. But I personally due not think that entitles them to repatriation payments. But that would be something for the tribal government to decide.
    Finally there is a perception that African Americans are not as well educated as whites or Asians due to test scores. I am really not sure about this issue. The problem might be with the tests themselves. The problem might be that people in local governments around the country are sabotaging the schooling of mostly black schools. The problem might lie with in the black community itself. It is even possible that there really is no problem at all. That the story of black educational under achievment is all a lie to give white people a justification to favor whites and asians. I really do not give a shit what the problem is it has to be fixed by any means neccessary. That means that those involved with fixing the problem have to be honest.
    Well it was a good plan. But now it is fucked. Not only is the encroachment of environmental collapse making the plan obsolete, the massive deficits that were created by support for foreign wars and the covid crisis creating a danger of future hyper inflation. This danger makes selling the costs of repatriations very difficult.
    By my plan the amount needed for repatriations was around 2 trillion dollars if I remember correctly. That may seem like a lot but it would not have all been needed to paid out in one year. So prior to 2020 , when I came up with the plan it would have been very doable.
    And there was a final part to the plan. Every so often the African American tribe would have held a referendum. The purpose of the referendum would have been to determine whether African Americans felt the need for further economic support from the federal government or because African Americans now felt that they were first class citizens in America the tribal government could be dissolved because the wounds of slavery though not forgotten had healed.
    Well we will never live to see such a day now because the number of days that we have left are pretty limited. In 2023 the planet produced more food than humans needed, even though waste in the food distribution system is a huge problem. But once not enough food is produced it would be very naive to think that the waste is suddenly going to dissapate, disappear, decline.
    The Sweat dreams of a magnificient team.

  7. Curt Kastens

    It is pretty easy for the US to solve the problem of military recruitment short falls.
    The signing bonuses just have to be increased until the recruiting goals are met.

    The idea that the US has supirior technology to the Russians goes back to the 1970s, it might have been during the Yom Kippur War, but i think it was a year or two later, when there was a massive dog fight between Syrian and Israeli aircraft and the Israeli’s shot down 73 migs and did not lose any of their own aircraft.
    Yes that was 50 years ago. But what has happened since then to prove that the shoe is now on the other foot?

    A major crime of this decade is that no US enlisted men have killed their commanding officers, except if there are some cases when it happened during the commission of a sexual assult that i have not heard about. And if that is the case it really would not get me excited because the motive would have been all wrong.

    A freind of Putin or Maduro or Ahmadinejad might not be a friend of mine. But an enemy of Putin, or Maduro, or Ahmadinejad will certianly be an enemy of mine.

    We can not say that the US or the west is weak because they have not one any wars against an industrial power for quite some time.
    First of all the US has not lost in Iraq or Syria yet. It is still there. Second of all although the US clearly lost it Afghanistan it is also just as clear that it was really never interested in defeating the Taliban in the first place. The US and the European know very well how to defeat an insurgency. Yet they never really applied tried and true anti insurgeny techniques in Afghanistan.
    What were they US forces really doing in Afghanistan if they were not trying to establish a durable puppet regime in Afghanistan?
    Well several possibilities come to my mind.
    1.) They wanted to create a strategic diversion. They wanted the Russians to think that their next strategic goal was Iran when in reality it was the Ukraine and then Russia.
    2.) They simply wanted to keep their soldiers busy so they would not have enough time to ask questions and reach the conclusion that the enemies of the American people reside in Washington DC and else where in the United States, not in lands outside of the United States.
    3.) They wanted to block an oil pipline from going to China from Iran through Afghanistan.
    4.) Early on they were interested in the oil of central Asia but then they determined that quality of the oil would not meet their expecations. Then they had to stick around to disquise their true intent.

    Therefore we underrate US military power if we use the US lose of Afghanistan as evidence that the US is weak.

    The militaries of the US and its allies have been preparing for a confrontation against China-Russia and its allies for a very long time. The Chinese, Russians and their allies have not been blind to this policy. Therefore they to have been preparing for this confrontation for a long time.

    Jack Kempf-Geist said “We are only in round 1 or 2 of a scheduled 12 round match. There are brilliant people on both sides. It is much to early to declare a likely winner before the US has even begun to fight. But I myself wish to redeem myself and get a second chance”.

    I do not know what he means by that. Do any of you?

    The biggest joker is climate change. 2.11° C above pre industial levels in for February 2024. You say it hair first.

    Hopefully the United States and its allies will steer clear of a military draft because the military leadership will fear that if some truely qualified citizens end up in the military there will be large increase in the number of officers being sexually assulted.

    The only way to bring peace to the world is not to build a new DMZ through the center of Europe. The only way to bring peace to the world is to physically move all neo nazis out of Europe and all confederate counterfit americans out of North America and resettle them on coral islands in the pacific or on Icebergs in the southern hemisphere.
    (except for those of high rank who would be saved gor getting burned allied while hanging from bridges or hanging from crosses.)

    I would feel a lot safer if the Chinese started sending Chinese Army divisions to help the Russians.
    I would feel safer still if the Chinese would give the Indians everything that the Indians want from the Chinese.

    I think (and hope) that Maduro should order the liberation of Guyana on January 3rd, 2024.

    I do not expect to personally fiinancially gain if the Russians liberate Germany. For all I know the Russians think that I am a double, triple or quadruple sccccooop of ice cream.

  8. StewartM

    Curt Kastens

    The idea that the US has supirior technology to the Russians goes back to the 1970s

    It goes well beyond that; remember Patton talking about those “Asiatic Russians?” The very reason why the Rosenberg case went so ballistic was the firm belief that those “Asiatic” Russians could never have designed an A-bomb on their own without cheating.

    So the biases against Russia and Russians goes far back, and is based on both “race” (which is really absurd, as many Russians by appearance appear more “Aryan” than the Germans; more like Scandinavians in complexion and hair color–not surprising, given their Viking pedigree) and the supposed “superiority” of capitalism (never mind that Soviet communism took a capitalist state that lost WWI in a humiliating fashion, unable to even make enough small arms for its soldiers, and won WWII despite being invaded and having much of its most productive territory occupied, producing some of the best weaponry of its type in the world).

    As I said, this is the macro level perspective. On the micro-level, on the specialist level, our technical specialists were usually impressed by Soviet weaponry and rated it as at least competent. On the operational level, our soldiers were taught to disdain ‘robotic’ Soviet tactics, but that’s because we had taken as gospel truth the testimony of German officers and intelligence experts post-WWII, which was biased. Even they had to admit, however, that as the war progressed, the Russians became more and more proficient in their tactics and operational skills.

    None of this should be surprising, as supposed Russian ineptitude in WWII was the product of taking millions of men accustomed to civilian life, and teaching them in the crucible of war how to be soldiers and officers. And, in everything else, you have to start simple, and they will make mistakes. Their German opponents by contrast had been doing the same jobs for years. But the Russians learned from their mistakes and got better every year.

  9. Curt Kastens

    Thank you, Stewart M.,

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