The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

No Mass Rapes By Hamas On October 7th/Open Thread

In fact, no evidence of even a single rape.

I noted, repeatedly, that I doubted these rape claims and was correct, as usual.

Now if you believed them you need to think very carefully about why. Every war always includes reports of fake atrocities and this is especially true at the start of the war, in order to gin up support. My “favorite” is that when Iraq invaded Kuwait, we were told that Iraqi soldiers were bayoneting babies in incubators.

Never happened.

Note that the primary purveyor of the mass rape claims was the New York Times, who also were the primary purveyors of fake nuclear weapon scares in the lead-up to the Iraq War.

The New York times is Hasbara from the top, intensely dedicated to Israel and the Zionist project of ethnic cleansing and genocide. I cannot recall any war it didn’t support. It also has a record of intensely political editorial decisions: for example in the 2004 election it decided not to publish revelations of mass spying on American citizens, against the law, because it would effect the election (hurt Bush, help the Democratic candidate.)

If you believe the New York Times without running what they claim thru a common sense filter (do they have reason to lie about this or to twist it?) you’re a fool. This applies to the media in general.

The fact is that whatever you think of Hamas, they were first elected because they had a reputation for incorruptability, as opposed to the PLO, which had becoming a sewer of corruption as well as servants of the Israeli state. They have no record of using rape as a weapon, none, and no reason to mass rape. We even had eye-witness reports from Israelis that they had treated women well, from October 7th and 8th.

There was a possibility that a few rapes had occurred, but even that turns out to not be true.

If you fell for it originally, you should have become suspicious quickly, because there was so little evidence. Haaretz noted that they couldn’t find any hospital admittances, there was no flood of claims (which there would have been) and so on. There was virtually no evidence to back up a very few claims from extremely biased sources.

If you trust the media, you are a fool. That’s understandable. You were brought up to think that authority figures were trustworthy (even though they’re the ones who do almost all the harm in the world). But at some point you have to grow up and notice that the much of the media is your enemy, just like most corporations, rich people and governments. They want your support, they want to take as much from you as they can, and they want to use you for their purposes and most of them don’t care how much you are hurt as a result.

Don’t be a fool.

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The Coming Draft And The Future Of Coercion


Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – March 3, 2024


  1. The “New York Times” published rank propaganda?
    Just wait for the impending wrath of President Biden!
    His ire will not be directed at the liars, but at us who quaintly cherish the truth.

  2. mago

    I wonder where the custom of wrapping fish in newspaper originated because the ink would bleed into the fish and you would be eating toxic material rather just reading it.

  3. John Prester

    Access to your blog is extremely difficult. Denial of Service? Guess you’re over the target…

  4. —–
    You were brought up to think that authority figures were trustworthy (even though they’re the ones who do almost all the harm in the world)

    The remarkable aspect about the appeal to authority religion is that the “authority” consists of experts with massive conflicts of interests.

    Opioids were non-addicting and safe because opioid manufactures and doctors selling them said so.
    Vioxx didn’t cause heart attacks because a study done and funded by Merck said it was safe.
    Psychiatric drugs are safe and effective because psychiatrists who sell them say so.
    Vaccines are safe and effective because the CDC who has dozens of vaccine patents and makes tens of billions yearly from them says so.
    Medicines are safe and effective because the FDA which gets half its budget from pharma and is staffed by pharma employees approved them.
    The government adding Fluoride to water doesn’t cause cognitive impairment the government says so.

    In the book 1984 a classic quote is “The Party (experts) told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

    The effect of the dramatized and extreme Hollywood and literature dystopias is that people don’t recognize we live in a dystopia.

  5. bruce wilder

    At the beginning of a war, especially, narrative control is job 1 with the powers that be and blatant propaganda is delivered with the volume turned up to 11. It is also when, surprised and aroused by reports of decisive violence, you the designated fool are most hungry for information.

    I suppose it matters what species of fool you are, how this cloudburst of more or less professionally produced persuasive and always fictionalized drama affects your views overall and whether any of the vivid factoids raining down, flooding your imagination in the moment, have a lasting effect in making or keeping you wet indefinitely.

    What you already know and believe or can readily find out should you attempt to “do your own research” as they say, is a critical factor in how your mind changes (it will change) in response, whether that change solidifies prejudice or triggers the dawn of a new consciousness and the addition of a flag to your Instagram.

    It is worth knowing a bit about how the sausage is made when the efforts to propagandize become the liturgy for believers to recite week after week.

    But, keep in mind that the flow of propaganda is long, amidst the cloudbursts.

    To me, the long-term project of destroying memory and history and standards and methods matter. The Intercept story notes the move at the Times to retire the Standards chief who wouldn’t let the editors refer to Hamas as “terrorists” because Hamas was the government in Gaza.

    We are being daily made more vulnerable to propaganda rained down in ill will.

  6. Feral Finster

    You’d think that humans would learn – the more lurid the allegations, the more you should ask whom these allegations benefit and the more you should beware a rush to judgment.

    Moreover, if Hamas really were so evil, why do Israel and its goons have to present so many fake atrocity tales?

  7. Carborundum

    As takedowns go that one is total horseshit. It took me 45 seconds to find accounts where named individuals said they saw sexual assaults and another 90 to find multiple media accounts saying they had seen a compendium of evidence indicative of such assaults. And that was English language media only.

    Against this EI can amass no more compelling an argument than “The reporters are joooos. Inexperienced jooos.” The adroit marshalling of complex fact leaves me both breathless and agog.

    Don’t be a fool indeed.

  8. Danfmto

    Among the bigger reasons the Mass Rape theory made no sense is that Hamas was completely shocked at how quickly & easy the IDF collapsed. They had no expectation of having hours of free time in Kibbutzim to conduct such a thing. Nor did they even realize the music festival was happening.

    I am pretty sure they expected 90% losses within hours and expected to net 10 or 20 hostages tops.

  9. Eric Anderson

    Here’s another doozy i read just today w/r/t George Galloway stomping all over the “Labour Party” with his newly formed (fairly) Workers Party:

    It’s the original organ of #CapitalistPropaganda

  10. responseTwo

    Once I saw what the DNC did to Bernie Sanders, that was it for me. For years I had been a fool to trust corporate news. Global warming will put an end to it all, except for the filthy rich who can run from it, for a while.

  11. Purple Library Guy

    I’m assuming he is talking in the light of reports like these, and assumes most readers of his blog have seen something along these lines:

  12. EffIsrael


    The fuck are you talking about? There was ZERO evidence of rape. NONE.

  13. Eric Anderson

    Ian I’d love to see your take on the difference between the recent Galloway election and the swift boating of Corbyn. Is it how the individuals themselves handle the media smears? Or, has something in Britain shifted among the populace? I was never impressed by how Corbin responded to the smears. Could say the same of Bernie. What’s the lesson here?

  14. Carborundum

    When someone says, “I personally watched rape occur” that’s evidence.

  15. mugu

    Gonna take a dive into some deep shit, with a hand wave toward the consequences, because there’s nothing to give a shit about.
    I suspect that many Jewish so called Buddhists—Jew Boos— support genocide.
    Call me what you will, just don’t call me late to dinner.

  16. mago

    I’ll leave a reply
    A haiku kind of response
    Do not trust anyone

  17. bruce wilder


    Laundering the stories and distributing them into the mouths of authorities and Tiktok-famous influencers, the better to inculcate belief even in defiance of evidence (or absence of evidence), is the work of many.

    Russiagate was a fabrication, authored in part by Brennan’s CIA; another commenter recently was sure Mueller laundering their story by repeating it constituted sure evidence it was all true.

    And, for many purposes of the high and mighty, they don’t need belief founded on either facts or “facts”; they need only enough doubt to support apathy or fatigue or paranoia and immunity to political mobilization. An information vacuum provokes the intelligent or imaginative to unfounded speculation and unfathomable conspiracy theories that will never connect with any of the actual conspiracies.

    Sixty years later we don’t know anything about why Kennedy was assassinated or at whose bidding; Allen Dulles made damn sure of that. And, the “conspiracy theory” was forever discredited. Generically. One of my favorite Tiktokers, an Australian who perfectly voices neoliberal geopolitics — rules-based etc — actually gave Lincoln’s assassination as an example of a murder by a lone gunman not a conspiracy. Apparently, Allen Dulles had erased from his demented mind even the historical fact of the conspiracy in which Booth participated.

    The powers that be may permit hectoring us to “trust authority” as a prosocial behavior even as they work overtime to undermine and destroy the integrity of any person or institution that might be actually trustworthy. The New York Times will surely tout their rigorous journalistic standards, but they want their readers to take no notice of their egregious and frequent missteps, not to mention the erosion of institutional safeguards — disappearing ombudsmen, retired Standards chief, younger and ever more inexperienced junior reporters.

    People must have story and meaning. In the absence of fact, the stories will still spin out, but the meaning will be false and empty, detached from any social function other than the palliative or entertaining or distracting.

    There are Israeli’s and others, who have to believe in the righteousness of an Israel embarked on genocide under the leadership of a crook like Netanyahoo. They can see on video the IDF distribute food to starving people in a way calculated to cause a riot so they can justify murdering a hundred desperate people — and blame the victims. And, they can believe in rapes that never happened and beheaded babies and all kinds of nonsense. Think of how morally depraved you have to be to assert for no reason other than your own selfish, greedy hatred of people you are oppressing, the most heinous crimes, just because you want to justify your own hatred, which is, in fact, the product of your own sin, your own crimes.

  18. Stewart Millen

    You know, “we” can do no evil, and “they” can do no right. Our grievances are warranted, our motives are pure, and theirs are fabricated/dishonest and a guise for self-aggrandizement.

    There have been some cracks in the media bubble lately though. At least now Gaza is being called a humanitarian disaster, though even here you’d think that Russia is starving more Ukrainians then Israel is starving Palestinians by the selected outrage.

  19. Carborundum

    Bruce, the document you will want to find is Sexual Crimes in the October 7 War:
    Special Report of the Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel
    . The totality of the evidence presented therein is indicative of rape on a mass scale. Was it a systematized element of HAMAS strategy? Fucked if I know, but I sure as hell hope not. I knew I would see it again after Yugo, what’s new – and repugnant – is the denialism from a distance for purposes of infotainment.

    As to the rest, having worked operationally in the domain, I am very familiar with how information warfare and perception shaping operations work and how utterly pervasive they have become since my day. That doesn’t mean that we simply say fact is mutable and excuse it when people make assertions denying it. By all means, interpret fact how you wish, contextualize, fuse, compare and contrast to your heart’s content. Even if I don’t agree – hell, particularly if I don’t agree – following the intricacies of that process and its product makes for better and more nuanced perceptions of reality. But don’t stand up there and make shit up to drive eyeball share like IA has. (I’m assuming that’s the motive here – if instead they consciously want to be IW actors, they should buy a ticket and get up to speed on their IAs and stoppages.)

  20. Carborundum

    For the first “IA” in the above substitute “EI”. The second IA is actually correct – for the non-military versed the full term is “Immediate Actions and Stoppages” (what you do when the magic bang-stick fails to bang).

    Pro-tip: when you bork a two letter acronym, it might be time for that second cup of coffee.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

  21. Curt Kastens

    some ink has been spread here in Europe about a tape of a conference call between 5 German Officers that was released by the head of Russia Today. What these officers, 2 Generals, 2 Lt. Colonels, and one Captain said is what is being commented on. Also whether or not the tape is a fake or authenitic is gettnig quite a bit of ink.
    But what I have not seen yet is any talk about the Russians got this tape, if it is real. At the moment the consensus is that the tape is real. Was this confence call done on an unsecure line? If the Russians hacked in to the call, was it a one off event. Or can the Russians do this routinely? Or, was the call leaked?
    If the call was leaked why did the Russians release it publically? I would think that would endanger an intellegence source. Hmm just stinging.

  22. Mark Level

    As to Bruce W’s sharing of the Intercept report, please note that 3 brave sources revealed this months ago: the Grayzone (Blumenthal & Mate), the Electronic Intifada (Ali Abunimah & associates) & Mondoweiss were all debunking the blatant lies & insane claims very thoroughly & very soon after the Hasbara article appeared. 99% of the Ryan Grim & Intercept reporting is simply cut-&-paste from these 3 sources, months later, & with only one minimal credit to the Grayzone & EI & Mondoweiss as nearly the entirety of their sources– they are considered by Grim as disreputable because they are actually “Lefty.”

    How Left is Ryan Grim.? He recently published a book glorifying “the Squad” who sell out & follow the Establishment Dems 99% of the time, wouldn’t do the “Force the Vote” for Medicare for All to force their betters in the Dem. (as well as R) party to come out against affordable health care for Americans!! (But the R’s did it to the patsy Kevin McCarthy later, proving it could be done IF any of these people had a spine or wanted to do something for their constituents).

    As to “Carborundum’s” lunacy, let’s briefly cover some specifics: somebody who is not & never has been a journalist is given a prestigious shot to write a hyped-up, unsourced piece for the Gray Lady. Why? Because she’s an Israeli Military official– they’re always truthful & fair, right? Then she brings in her even less qualified nephew to write the piece fronted by Jeffrey Gettleman, an ardent Zionist. (As Ian said, this is top-down Hasbara.)

    So bullet points for the following:

    Schwartz liked a post calling to turn Gaza into “a slaughterhouse”. Well, no anti-Palestinian prejudice or hate their, eh?

    Raz Cohen spoke 3 times about what he claimed to witness, varying & contradictory stories which can’t be substantiated– 1st, the day of Oct. 7 he shared a post of himself hiding with friends in a ditch near the Novara music festival and giving a “V for victory” sign with his fingers. Then when interviewed soon after he shared how scary it was to wait & be rescued and said NOT ONE WORD about rapes he witnessed, or the “cutting off of breasts” with box-cutters, & the “terrorists” passing around & “playing with” the severed breasts? (WTF? Is this even possible? I’m not a surgeon so I have no idea, but this would not be sensual in any way, it’s just trying to smear Palestinians as necrophiliacs, apparently.) Oh, & per his story this was happening while Israeli planes were overflying the festival and firing on the attackers! The stabbing & cutting off & playing with severed breasts story by Cohen was about 2 weeks later. Then he does a morbid “fashion show” with members Kos-playing brave Israeli soldiers & subhuman Arab monsters for money. Then when his lies start to be questioned he says he’s “too traumatized to talk about it” (since no more money will come in and the attention will only be negative. )

    Another major “source” went into hiding, only a first name is shared & it’s not even known if the person is male or female, age, no other data shared. People searched across Israel for anyone sharing that name, nobody with that name took credit. (I’m too busy to look up this evidently imaginary party’s name at the moment.)

    The 3rd major source was the Zaka serial rape & corpse cult. They were founded by a serial rapist (think Jimmy Saville) & when he won a national Israeli prize, multiple men & women came forth to share his rapes of them (some when they were children). He then tried to commit suicide , botched it and was in a coma for years before dying. Zaka has no training in forensics & disposes of bodies according to Mosaic practices, thus if any rapes had occurred no evidence would have been gathered, nor was it. They are fanatical cultists, you just have to take their word for it.

    And these Hasbara fanatics didn’t just smear Palestinians, either, they went after their own!! Gal Abdush’s badly burned body was evidently from the Israelis resorting to the “Hannibal option” & killing everyone fleeing the musical festival including Israelis so no hostages are taken to give “Hamas” more leverage in negotiations. Thus (as everyone now knows) the # of Israelis killed had to be lowered from the 1400 original estimates on Oct. 8 to 1200 some weeks later, as evidently the Israelis hit 200 Israelis fleeing on foot or in (destroyed) cars, Abdush being in the latter category. Her body was simply chosen because (badly burnt as it was) it was in a posture that could suggest rape. Her family was never told Gettleman et al would claim she was raped, they don’t believe she was raped (she spoke to her sister on the phone & died moments later) & they were hurt and disgusted by the addition of false charges she was raped before her tragic death by the NYT purely for Hasbara purposes.

    Carbo’s “When someone says, “I personally watched rape occur” that’s evidence.” Uhm, no, it’s not!! Do you still believe the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador who claimed to witness “babies removed from incubators” when she wasn’t even in Kuwait when the invasion happened? Do you still believe in WMD’s in Iraq because Rumsfeld said definitively they were “in the area of Baghdad & north,” etc.? I suggest you grow up. Also please be advised I will take anything you say on this site in the future with many pinches of salt!!

    Mark Twain usually gets the credit for saying, “A lie goes round the world before the truth can even get its pants on.” This is an example. Netanyahu still screeches about “beheaded babies” in nearly every interview with the US press. As racist and evil as Israeli society is, their newspapers show the maturity to have disproved and admitted this lie months ago. Don’t be a sucker. Don’t believe genocidal murderers who want to justify exterminating thousands with insane lies. This story was no more coherent or believable than Marjorie Taylor Green’s claim that Rothschild space lasers were setting California wildfires from space because climate change isn’t real.

  23. Curt Kastens

    Never mind, ink is now being spilt or spilled over the how question here.

  24. Soredemos


    My understanding is that the October 7th assault was meant to be a hostage taking operation. Hamas has had success with prisoner exchanges in the past. The targets were meant to be IDF bases and illegal settlements. The goal was taking prisoners, and killing what were viewed as valid targets if needed.

    They didn’t expect the IDF to be so totally inept and absent, the concert wasn’t supposed to be there, and they didn’t expect the IDF to panic and massacre hundreds of its own citizens.

    They also almost certainly didn’t expect Israel to respond by escalating to open genocide.

  25. bruce wilder


    Israeli’s lie about October 7. Fabrication and falsehood do not create facts. What they show clearly is the moral depravity that has completely consumed the Zionist project.

    As for the specific Report you cited, its timing, title and over-the-top tone are all tells. This is propaganda and like most Israeli accounts of October 7, propaganda designed to justify a genocidal mania. I do not feel I have to credit any assertion as fact, when standards and methods of objectivity have been discarded at the outset by its authors. I say, “prove it.” And, they have done nothing to prove anything but their own lack of scruple.

  26. Carborundum

    Actually, that is evidence. You may choose to disbelieve that evidence. (Or spew verbiage trying to obfuscate or discredit it.) But it is absolutely evidence.

  27. Eric Anderson

    What precisely are you trying to achieve with your “but it ‘is’ evidence” angle? Judicial systems have rules to winnow the veracity of “evidence.”

    What does your “evidence” contribute to the discussion if it isn’t, let’s say, relevant?

    Rule 401 of Rules of Civil Procedure states:
    “ Evidence is relevant if: (a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and (b) the fact is of consequence in determining the action.

    The relevance rules (relevantly) also encompass rules relating to character witnesses, habit, and routine practice.

    Rule 802 states:
    “ Hearsay” means a statement that: (1) the declarant does not make while testifying at the current trial or hearing; and (2) a party offers in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement.”

    Rule 901 states:
    “ (a) In General. To satisfy the requirement of authenticating or identifying an item of evidence, the proponent must produce evidence sufficient to support a finding that the item is what the proponent claims it is.”

    All this to say, “evidence” means nothing, unless it is relevant, trustworthy, and authentic.

    Now, make an argument for your evidence that is relevant, trustworthy, and authentic in the face of the arguments tearing apart your “evidence.”

    You drop assertions around here like Ian’s blog is attended by Weekly World News readers, instead of a collection of some of the most politically informed English speaking people on the planet.

  28. Carborundum

    Our of curiosity (probably morbid curiosity), what would the possible relevance be of US Civil Code to a criminal matter in a foreign country / foreign occupied territory?

    To be clear, I am using evidence in a sense used to construct intelligence estimates (I hesitate to say “the sense” in that it’s likely the issues are broader than what I’m emphasizing here). My sense is that it is quite different in that (I assume, based on what I see covered in media) legal procedures screen evidence to determine what can and cannot be included in arriving at a verdict (if true, generally appropriate I would say given the power asymmetries at work) while estimates are much more inclusive. I would say it’s rarer to throw something out completely when constructing estimates and the analyst has a comparatively huge degree of latitude in determining *how* to interpret a given piece of evidence (or more commonly multiple articulated pieces of evidence). The goal strikes me as pretty different in that it usually aims at particularistic synthesis rather than reduction to a limited, conclusion well-supported by precedent (I don’t think there’s any sort of parallel construct to precedent in Int). On reflection, comparatively few people with legal backgrounds end up as analysts compared to what I would have expected (if I had previously thought about it) given significant overlap in the basic tasks – I suspect because of this key difference.

    As to your demand that I defend “my” evidence, I guess my question would be what do you think is going to happen? If people mouth the incantations of the Internet factoids of the day well enough, the scales are going to fall from my eyes and I’ll realize that I have been *WRONG*? [the horror!] That I’ve been duped by Israeli IO and that the noble inhabitants of the Strip would never, ever do such a thing? If I don’t exhaustively source everything to your satisfaction you’re going to take it as vindication for EA? Count coup? Nail my hide (metaphorically, I hope) to the door? If that’s the case, brother have at it. At the end of the day, I’m too experienced and too tired to deeply care what a bunch of predominantly White, male, older Americans who have mostly never been out of CONUS think about pretty much anything. (What they believe is definitely interesting to me, but I really don’t care to influence it [more about seeking to innoculate ourselves from foreign influence increasingly surging over the border].)

    I’m afraid I have a pretty different view of the political acumen of the readership. Informed in the sense of understanding the nuances of a small subset of online discourse, certainly. Informed in the sense of understanding the countries, people and phenomena that discourse purports to be about? Oh, no. Very, very much no. Capital N. Capital O. So many confident statements, so much certainty expressed by people who haven’t been within 10,000 klicks of the countries they speak of, based purely on the statements of unaccountable interlocutors selected based on whether what they say fits their cherished preconception. That may constitute political acumen in the context of enabling one to thrive in the cesspool that is the modern American body politic, but the rest of us outside of that shitshow find it lacking.

  29. Curt Kastens

    One thing that I find really odd about the tape of the German military officers Conversation is that the German officers do not say the Kerch Bridge, they refer to a bridge in the east.
    That seems like a really really contrived way to talk about the bridge. Why would someone speak in such a bizzare way if they thought they were not being recorded?
    It is claimed that the officers used a less secure system to have this conversation. Did they all, or at least one of those involved know that they were being recorded?
    Another thing is what if the story that this conversation took place over a less secure system in not true? That would be huge embarrasement for the Germans to know that they have been telling the Russians their deepest secrets for Dog only knows how long. One of the participants was the head of the German Air Force. One would think that any conference call that he takes part in would be on the most secure line. Is this incident a case of one time German incompetence or sustained Germano Russo Brilliance? My very tenative guess is that it is a one off because I do not think that the Russkies gained as much in the short term as they will loose in the long term by releasing this tape.
    Could it be that the Russkies are recieving alien assistence? It was reported recently that a UFO was reportedly filmed over the battlefield of Ukraine. It was passed off as a mirage by those who were certian that the only sentient beings in this part of the universe are humans. I think that the Russians simply made a mistake to release the tape. But if they think that they can rinse and repeat the process maybe it was not a mistake.

  30. bruce wilder

    Re: Germans discussing bridge targeting

    I read everything the Russians do with regard to Ukraine as expressing a feeling of desperation.

    Their goal is to get the Europeans to the negotiating table and into a mindset that acknowledges Russia’s interests as a Great Power. The German conversation is so far detached from that it must make the Russians despair of ever being in the same reality let alone the same room.

  31. Anonymous

    Schwartz did do a valuable service for posterity. By hounding every rape crisis center for evidence and not finding any, she conclusively showed that there were no living rape victims. Zaka’s lack of evidence gathering ensured that no forensic evidence of rape exists. So, zero physical evidence of any rape occurred. All that’s there are lurid eyewitness testimonies from demonstrably unreliable individuals.

    The Hamas rape story never made any sense to anyone who knows anything about combat or Hamas. Rapes don’t occur during the heat of battle and there was no downtime for combatants on October 7 and 8. Furthermore Hamas is a religiously inspired national liberation movement. Its fighters don’t fear death because they believe their righteous actions in this life will be rewarded after their martyrdom. You don’t make those kinds of sacrifices and knowing that you’ll likely die that day and commit an unforgivable sin/crime of rape. This is in opposition to Zionist rabbis who openly approved of raping non-Jews during wartime.

    The rape story was always a story sold to Israelis and Westerners to make them justify their hatred for Hamas and Palestinians. These people did not need any convincing, as they continue to repeat the “40 beheaded babies” story long after Israeli reports show only a few under-2 year olds died on October 7.

  32. Eric Anderson

    Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
    Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God’s great Judgment Seat;
    But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
    When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

    — Kipling

  33. mago

    Oh well, burnt bridges and all of that don’t you know. . .

  34. On Cruelty and Indifference

    Ian, thank you for continuing to be one of the few place on the web that allows the sort of discussion I’m about to engage in…even if you yourself don’t agree.

    The following is a response to the recently posted Naked Capitalism article entitled ‘IM Doc Reports on Covid Not Waning, Long Covid Effects as Lambert Lambastes Latest CDC Guidance as “Crime Against Humanity”’ which can be accessed here:

    Let me begin by saying right off the bat that it is both absolutely amazing and quite frightening to me that ‘IM Doc’ – who often quite correctly has spoken of ‘signals’ in both scientific testing procedures / clinical drug trials as well as ‘on-the-ground’ medicine as practiced by doctors in various settings – it is absolutely astounding, not to mention horrifically irresponsible medically according to the good doctor’s own often-invoked standards, that he (and ‘Yves’ and ‘Lambert’ and the majority of the commentariat) misses the glaringly obvious signals of ‘vaccine’ issues based on his own freaking data.

    Frankly, I couldn’t contain my anger the more I read and the more it became obvious this glaring signal was, once again, never seriously going to be addressed by NC editors nor anyone in their minimal brain trust…not to mention anyone in their allegedly quite intelligent and enlightened commentariat.

    As is so often the case, a person’s blind spots are enormous, and the more intelligent and authoritative the person takes themselves for, the larger the blind spots they inevitably seem to have.

    Returning to the larger point, Naked Capitalism’s naked gatekeeping has gone beyond simply bad and irresponsible journalism to the point of borderline socio/psychopathy. Crazy and over the top you say? Allow me to explain.

    There is currently no way to accurately discern ‘vaccine’ injury/death from covid injury/death.

    There has and continues to be a coordinated campaign from the top to suppress any information that sheds a negative light on the DOD/HHS’ at once both laughably and crudely named ‘Operation Warp Speed, the pieces of which were put together well before the covid event itself was officially declared a pandemic in March of 2020 (the public in the US began being primed by the media beginning in January 2020).

    the vax side effects are on average way less bad than getting Covid

    This is extraordinarily irresponsible, and that’s being kind. The ‘vax’ side effects are underreported, what is reported is downplayed, and many people have been fired and personally denigrated via public name-calling – a shameful practice that of course says much more about the character, or rather lack thereof, of the denigrator than of the person being denigrated.

    This is even more true when the people being denigrated are risking their own character and professional reputations in public in order to help people, while the ones doing the denigrating hide to varying degrees – sometimes entirely – behind online pseudonyms. This defines both ‘keyboard warriors’ and ‘wimps’ though I am not here directing those terms at anyone per se. Rather, pointing out that, definitionally, anyone engaging in this sort of behavior fits the bill, so to speak.

    Now, the only thing perhaps even more pathetic than the aforementioned personalities are their acolytes, many of whom seem unable to personally navigate the world to any serious degree unless they constantly read the advice of their online sages – who have crafed these carefully-curated personas as truth-tellers and, as such, trusted authorities on the main subjects they opine on.

    They in turn ‘gatekeep’ and disallow any information that might seriously call into question their trusted status as sages and truth-tellers…and that’s not to mention the double duty many of them do as the great moral voice for the poor unwashed masses.

    In short, the failure to even admit the fact that the ‘vax’ injuries and deaths are grossly underreported and their severity grossly downplayed is journalistically irresponsible at a minimum.

    The larger underlying principle is the total lack of concern for human beings’ lives, particularly given a seeming concern for the demise of the public health system. I say ‘seeming’ because the underreporting and downplaying of vax injuries and deaths ought to be at the proverbial front and center right now of any competent public health service.

    There is overwhelming evidence that the ‘vax’ is in fact causing more harm than the illness itself. Anyone reporting on this has a moral responsibility to allow open discussion of this obviously quite relevant evidence without invoking the logical and simple-minded fallacy of name-calling and denigration.

    It should be added here that both ignoring the glaring ‘vax’ injuries/deaths and/or maintaing an aura of cool indifference to them are also telltake signs of socio/psychopathy on the part of the individual or group engaging in these behaviors.

    Those who won’t or can’t adhere to this most basic logical and moral threshold should rightly be considered ‘gatekeepers’ and their integrity should immediately be called into question. It is ultimately their own character that should be put on trial. They have blood on their hands.

    Here is a recent, elegantly simple illustration from the UK which speaks volumes, and is representative of what is going on in most of the vaccinated world:

    I don’t care for the host of this discussion, but the voices of the nurses themselves should absolutley be heard. They were forced to employ protocols that killed people, period. These are peoples’ lives we are talking about:

    This video on ‘vax’ side effects also mentions the killing protocols that were used in nursing and elder/disabled care homes:

    Please also see the work of retired Air Force Major Tom Haviland, who created a wonderfully simple and unbiased questionnaire that he has compiled data from for two years now. His work is referred to as the ‘Worldwide Embalmer Blood Clot Survey” and it ought to be ‘front page news’ everywhere. That it isn’t is another huge red flag. A glaring signal, if you will.

    Thank you again Ian for your commitment to honest and unbiased inquiry and investigation.

  35. surreal

    You have to start at the beginning.

    The predominate “test” they use is much more akin to a process, as outlined by its inventor in the link below. I am talking about PCR, in all its various forms.

    Both the original RT-PCR ‘”test” and the more recent Flu SC2 Multiplex Assay PCR “test” aren’t remotely reliable indicators of whether one in fact has covid (or any virus for that matter).

    In fact, as previously stated, the inventor of the PCR process flatly stated as much. Essentially, we are told that the PCR “tests” are more reliable because they’re more sensitive, but in fact they are much too “sensitive” to be used as tests in and of themselves. Thus, the entire PCR process has been hijacked and is being misused by the proverbial “TPTB” to produce whatever results they desire.

    Interestingly, to say the least, the “test” currently used most widely was, like the shots, only approved under an EUA with minimal testing that in practice amounts to a sick (pun intended) joke. It was all done under the neoliberal mantra of “efficiency”:

    “The FDA granted EUA for the Flu SC2 Multiplex Assay test on July 2, 2020. Basically, this type of authorization is given only to medical products used to diagnose, treat, or prevent conditions that are needed during a public health emergency. These products haven’t been through years of testing like other products on the market.”

    This is an example of how they lie about it to this day:

    “When you develop and submit a new test for authorization from the FDA, you have to show that you checked the specific genetic sequence you’re testing for against similar and related organisms, and that there’s no cross-reactivity. Your test has to be specific for that organism you’re trying to measure,” Dwayne Breining, MD, executive director and medical director of Northwell Health Laboratories, told Health.

    “There’s a reason why the people who developed this type of testing won a Nobel prize back in the day. PCR tests are among the most accurate clinical tests that have ever been developed,” said Dr. Breining.

    Actually, here is what the aforementioned Nobel prize winner said about the test he invented and developed:

    “PCR is separate from that. It’s just a process that’s used to make a whole lotta somethin’ outta somethin. That’s what it is.”

    In other words, it’s a research tool, not a test. This remains true to this day, despite mainstream articles such as this 2022 USA Today piece pleading otherwise:

    The evidence largely points to an initial killing protocol for the aged and vulnerable who were all identified as covid vicitms despite multiple comorbidities and, again, the wantonly destructive protocols that were put in place and which are discussed prominently around the web by regular, working class people like those in the videos ON CRUELTY AND INDIFFERENCE posted above.

    There were financial incentives for this, another link to the puzzle that NC has shut down further inquiry into when presented with hard evidence, and which the vetted ‘IM Doc’ steers clear of despite the fact he absolutely knows these incentives were in place at various institutions around the US and the world. Meanwhile, the “vaccines” are causing myriad serious problems in younger generations, most particularly myocarditis in men and menstrual issues in women.

    And these clots. And other blood issues like an increase in traditional blood clots, “coffee grind” blood is now much more common (traditionally seen primarily in heavy chemo patients). The blood of a substantial amount of the vaccinated, as reported by many embalmers, vascular surgeons, and others, is thicker than in the past.

    All of these blood issues obviously can cause many of the other issues we are seeing.

    How does one distinguish between ‘long covid’ and ‘vaccine’ injury? It is currently impossible.

  36. Eric Anderson

    On Cruelty:

    So, Yves banned ya, eh?
    Happens to the best of us. And it’s not like Ian won’t do the same if you get too far afield. Hugh and Reality Checker come to mind.

    Bottom line though is that it’s her website and she’ll run it however she wants. On balance, I think they do a lot more good than harm. I mean, it’s not like you’re complaining about Zero Hedge of Drudge. Why is that?
    It’s because something Yves is doing well drew you in I suspect.

    Personally, I’m not entirely convinced by your arguments. And personally, I remain cynical of overzealous claims made by both sides of the debate. And personally, the choice that flows from said cynicism has found me vaxing with Novavaxx — which I learned the benefits of through Lambert’s exhaustive reporting at Naked Capitalism.

  37. Soredemos

    @On Cruelty and Indifference

    What are you even on about? NC has never remotely claimed that vaccine injuries or deaths are more than what covid itself is doing. Literally the opposite, in fact . Their position is that the vaccines are of limited effectiveness at best, and the narrative that they’re the solution has meant all the much more effective possible measures have been completely abandoned as ‘public health’ has become utterly worthless.

  38. bruce wilder

    Naked Capitalism is clear and explicit regarding their editorial line on COVID-19, mitigation, vaxx.

    I have doubts about the value of journalistic commitments of this kind, even when backed by non-expert critical thinking of the high standard set by Yves, Lambert, and importantly in this case IM Doc.

    We are all sucked into the vacuum created by the collapse of Public Health authority at the CDC and to a lesser extent, the FDA. NC, like the rest of us, is forced to search out random “voices” in the chaos of X-twitter and beyond. There is ultimately no adequate substitute for collaborative expert inquiry and we do not have institutional support for that — or at least it is hard to pinpoint where it survives. Individual “voices” that in our ignorance we judge on their charisma are never adequately constrained enough in their brief judgments by deep ethical consideration or extensively elaborate evidentiary logical interpretations.

    I have made myself “expert” in a community of experts in matters unrelated to medicine and I deal daily in my job with “expert” medical care dictums (“pearls”) used to train and test medical practitioners.

    The topics of COVID-19, long COVID and vaccine risks and effectiveness in popular discourse, including public policy guidance, are simply an unfathomable mess as far as I can tell. I would not feel confident taking any line, including the line(s) taken by NC. I personally have never contracted COVID-19 or its variants (and neither has Yves) nor have I experienced vaccine side-effects as far as I know. My sample of 1 isn’t knowledge, but it undermines my confidence in the value of any self-certainty in a way. I am going on “reports” that I cannot verify easily or sort or order. I do not have deep knowledge to use to filter “scientific” reports (but know enough to recognize there is a great deal of methodologically poor “scientific” stuff flooding into the journalistic space, polluting the popular discourse.

    I despair and I do not see what else can be done by someone who simply seeks to be a well-informed citizen.

  39. Eric Anderson

    I concur. Thank you. That was well stated. Better than my little foray into the discussion above, but I think communicating the same message.

  40. bruce wilder

    I think taking a journalistic line is a dubious practice because then you, the journalist or the journal, are forever after dedicated to “proving” your thesis in polemics, instead of commenting on the emergent phenomena of the times. Cheerleading can secure an audience for a time but the absence of surprise means you are boring. Of course, doing so, you expect to be vindicated and rewarded for it. You might be right in part at least but the public at large will not reward you for being right.

    Maybe you have integrity and reward yourself with self-esteem for being “right” with regard to process, methods and professional standards (not the same thing as being a prophet predicting the future at all). Whether society rewards such virtue of process is not up to the individual acting alone; it depends in part on the virtue of the audience assessing value in method.

    A journalist’s methods at best are not enough to make up for a scientist’s failure of method. They are not the same methods.

  41. Brittany Thickblood


    The point On Cruelty is making is that NakedCap ignores/tremendously downplays injuries from the shots. They have to this point quite clearly attempted to make the vast majority of physical/mental/emotional issues about covid itself as opposed to the shots and wholesale lockdowns of society (instead of targeted) that obviously negatively affect most sentient human beings.

    I would add right now that the virus that allegedly causes covid hasn’t ever been properly isolated. That is a broader conversation about how the field of virology itself misuses chemistry in order to exist as as its own specialty.

    Interestingly, “Yves Smith” is now talking up a menstrual issue from the shots. She’s never talked about a menstrual issue from the shots to any serious degree, if at all, to this point. This all comes about after NC allegedly had someone pose as “Yves” and write something under her name. I say “allegedly” not because I deny that NC, like most sites, is bombarded with all manner of crazy stuff. Rather, it’s just very convenient given the fact that NC essentially completely ignored all the injuries and deaths from the shots, blaming them all on ‘covid.” Now that everything is blowing up and it is no longer possible to ignore this, they are changing the narrative and moving the goal posts in their own interest, as they are, and have always been, wont to do.

  42. Jerry Dorfman

    “Yves” and “Lambert” often do content moderation themselves. If they and their content moderation team can’t tell the difference between “Yves” herself and online crazies, perhaps they ought to consider getting out of the online blog business.

  43. Louise Burton

    Thank you surreal and On Cruelty for your clear thinking on this matter. I read NakedCap somewhat regularly and nothing surprises me about them. Needless to say, they have utterly fragile egos.

    I thought I would share this comment I wrote to Dr John Campbell, who keyboard warrior “Lambert” referred to as a “charlatan” not long ago. This comes with all the usual caveats that any halfway intelligent person ought to adhere to, i.e. I am not a ‘fanboy’ of Campbell, don’t agree with him on everything, etc. But he doesn’t denigrate or name-call, which is what a person resorts to when they don’t have an argument. It’s the same as defaulting to all your credentials in the middle of an argument, as Dr Kaufmann evidences here:

    The reason I and others “go after” sites such as ‘naked capitalism’ is touched on in the comment. Naked Capitalism is an important site, they know that, yet they persist in their lies and obfuscation. Thus, they must be called to account.

    Now, I and others do not sit around holding our breath waiting for “Yves” “Lambert” and the crew to begin displaying some semblance of sanity. Rather, as Ian has mentioned many times about his own site: most readers never comment.

    So, what we are getting through the comments isn’t necessarily representative of how the vast majority of readers think and feel. There are many more people who read, understand and agree with what the given site’s ‘naysayers’ are saying than the sites themselves allow for. These are “we the people” or “the proletariat” or whatever. “Yves” and “Lambert” are only comfortable within their own bubble of chosen experts and specialists. Fair enough. But don’t ever let them fool you.

    This is why we do what we do. To spread information as far and wide as possible. Same as NC, Ian and all the rest.

    With all that said, here is the comment to Nurse John:

    “Thank you Dr John. I just wanted to alert you to the fact that you have been publicly denigrated by a rather well-known website in both ‘left’ and to a lesser degree ‘libertarian’ and ‘conservative’ circles. The site itself is known among, and evidently read by, media ‘dissidents’ and hyper truth-telling public personalities and influencers such as Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi…to name just a few.

    I am talking about the website NakedCapitalism and its editors ‘Yves Smith’ (real name Susan Webber who wrote the book ‘Econned’ and has appeared on Bill Moyers show in the past) and ‘Lambert Strether’ (former editor of a blog called ‘Corrente’ who has no public face and no known facial/pictorial identy anywhere online).

    NakedCapitalism also has a self-vetted brain trust which includes another non-public-facing opiner, a doctor who goes by the name ‘IM Doc’ who did decent early reporting on pharma’s efficacy lies, similar to the bmj’s Peter Doshi’s public testimonies which were given before ‘IM Doc’ ever mentioned them publicly on NakedCapitalism.

    The aforementioned ‘Yves Smith’ aka Susan Webber banished you from ever being mentioned in the comments section a few months back. You were cited in the commentariat regularly until this point, and by all appearances you were generally seen – as are others – as a welcome outside source of information and data. Then ‘Yves’ somewhat arbitrarily decided that you made an egregiously unforgivable mistake that henceforth got you banned from ever being mentioned again. I forget specifically what the ghastly offense was.

    Fast forward to more recently, and ‘Lambert’ said that his inbox or feed was being swamped with questions/concerns about the new pathology, the white fibrous clots that as you and your readers know haven’t been seen until 2020 at the earliest, though most began appearing in early/mid 2021. This happened soon after your broadcast, which obviously a number of NakedCapitalism readers continue to watch, despite the dire warnings and subsequent name-calling and denigration by site editors ‘Yves’ and ‘Lambert.

    I bring all this up because, again, the website NakedCapitalism is a not insignificant website in the allegedly ‘alternative’ media landscape that is read by many people from various backgrounds, for better or for worse. It has been named as one of the top twenty financial websites by more than one alternative and mainstream news source over the past decade and a half. And they are denigrating and besmirching the embalmers and essentially anyone not sticking to their preferred narrative.

    I understand that this isn’t earth-shattering in general but, again, NakedCapitalism is rather significant in a largely unheralded way. It may seem essentially mainstream to readers here who aren’t familiar with it but who are absorbing all its gatekeeping shenanigans, but in fact it was on the Washington Post’s ‘ProporNot’ list and, again, it is more widely read by various ‘insiders’ and others than is commonly understood. It has a particularly well-earned reputation for exposing the corruption within the Caifornia public employees retirement system (CALIPERS).

    Here is the link to ‘Lambert’ calling you a charlatan. He begins by linking to two mainstream sources in his ‘2 PM Watercooler’, Trisha Greenhaigh, who is the first to refer to you as a charlatan, and then a Michael Olesen, who posts the pasta. They are denigrating you, Major Tom and of course first and foremost Mr O’Looney and all the embalmers and those on the ground, by posting pictures of sausage and pasta respectively without ever showing the pictures and videos the embalmers themselves have taken.

    In the comments section, a few concerned commenters dare to bring the topic up, one of whom asks, point blank, ‘So, no clots then?’ to which ‘Lambert’ replies ‘No. As I said, Campbell is a charlatan.’ This is a monstrous attempt to insinuate that the embalmers and you are engaged in some some bizarrre otherworldly conspiracy:

  44. Ian Welsh

    I’m not sure this is the right place for complaints about NatCap.

  45. Brittany Thickblood

    This does not mean that vaccines may not also cause harm, calm down anti-vaxxers

    Ian, I respectfully request that you immediately stop using the blanket term “anti-vaxxers” to describe anyone who quite correctly is concerned with the most recent iterations of what we refer to as “vaccines.” This is beneath you. It serves as a denigrative label and it’s hard to imagine someone as bright, not to mention as grounded via meditation and all the reading and inquiring you’ve done throughout your lifetime…I just can’t believe you use this term.

    The label “anti-vaxxer” is both inaccurate and instantly divisive. So I ask you Ian, what is the point of using it?

    The powers that be are changing definitions in an “Orwellian” manner and likewise they are attempting to rewrite history so that all memory of the way things were is gone.

    Here is a ten minute video that goes into more detail. I have cued the video to the part specific to “anti-vaxxer” but I urge anyone paying attention to go back and watch from the beginning. And rewatch until it sinks in, because evidently these most basic of rational thought processes elude most these days. This is very important.

    I’m not one who is particularly enamored of any one individual, but I have to say I’d love to see someone here attempt to debate Peter Doshi on these most basic points. You won’t get too far, and you will sound extraordinarily foolish in the process. I imagine this why people such as Doshi are largely ignored.

    Ian, the vast majority of the world are “anti-vaxxers” including most of the people that “leftists” purport to care about. Is it honestly your position that the world should roll up its arms for the western world’s big pharma shots?

  46. Curt Kastens

    I now no longer support RFK Jr. for Pres of the US at all. Now the only person that I could support for President of the US would be Cynthia McKinney or a clone of hers. I came really close to making a huge mistake.

    I would have been massively dissapointed in RFK Jr. And it is pretty haard for me to be dispointed. To me Grim Jim is wildly optomisitic. While others accuse him of being to pessimitic. Yet in one of his latest comments he did not even mention the damage to crops that will be caused in the near future by massive hail storms.

    I did not get to where I am by not being a realist.

  47. Curt Kastens

    The Embassies of the UK and the US in Moscow have put our warnings that there is a high likely hood of terrorist attacks at public events in Moscow over the next 48 hours. Oh wait these embassies said extremist attacks not terrorist attacks. That might make some kind of a difference calling the possible potential potent attackers extremists rather than terrorists.
    But why would the embassies of the UK and the US know more about this risk that the Russian Government? Making the claim itself is a form of terrorism. If the goverments of the UK and the US really wanted to prevent an attack by extremists on a civilian gathtering in Moscow this weekend all they have to do is tell what they know to the Russians. I myself will not forget this. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
    Several years ago I wrote either on my own blog or on the blog of the Austrailain MMT economist Bill Mitchell or on the blog of Austraiian Economist John Quiggens that an Iranian submarine had sailed around Africa and went all the way up to the mouth of the Chesapeak Bay and was going to sink a US submarine tender as it left on a cruise in the next 48 hours. But because I revealed this information the Iranian submarine sailed back home off course.
    I changed history that day and in the process delayed the extinction of humanity by up to 15 or 20 years. And that is a scientific fact. No one thanked me. Nor did I expect any thanks. It was just a normal day of work.
    I would not warn anyone about anything like that any more though. I have learned that when you mess with history you have no way of knowing where it will lead. Saving a nation from drowning today may lead to the nation burning in a firestorm the day after that. Only the dogs know what is good for us.

  48. Curt Kastens

    Remember this??,part%20of%20the%20Satanic%20panic.

    That was an unplanned case of hysteria.

    I saw an article today written by an Italian Proffessor I think his name is Ugo Bardo. I might be wrong. But he posted an article looking back at the beginings of the covid story. At first I disagreed with one of his points. But then on further reflection I decided that I agreed after all. Anyways the article got me thinking about the events again.

    I have been trying to resist writing about this subject because some group of people went to extra ordinary lengths to gas light the entire planet. And they were very successful. Therefore for me to say anything that would cast doubt on the narratives that they have managed to make main stream is like an ant trying to stop a shoe from squishing him went the ant gets steped on by a human being.

    I do not know who was behind the plandemic. I do not even know what their motives were. But one thing that I am pretty sure of is that motive for the plandemic was not for parma companies to make money. That too is just a cover story to hide the real motive of the plandemic. If that was the real motive the intellegence agencies would have made sure that the plandemic did not happen because it would not have passed a cost risk benifit analysis for the intel agencies.

    The really important questions about the plandemic are not the phoney stats that were spread about to gaslight the human spiecies, with the exception of those that were party to program. But HOW they managed to pull this off. An average person would say that there is no way in hell that a psy op can get so many medical personnel to support the same narrative. But people with the right background know that it can be done in principle. But in practice a huge amount of details need to be worked out.
    I myself do not have the medical background to work out the details. But I think that here and there people with the correct background are figuring out how humanity was hoodwinked.

    The intellegence agencies have long arms. That Russian dissedent Nalvarny or something to that effect sure died of a blood clot at the worst possible time. Who benifited most from his death? Who benifited massively by the timing of his death? The Russians say that he died of a blood clot. Well people who are beaten often suffer from blood clots. The guy was in a prison. The guy once said that Muslims were cockroaches. Not surprising that such a guy would end up getting beaten in a prison anywhere in the world. But the west will not be blamed for his beating because how can the west get to him when he is in a Russian prison, right?

    But the difficult aspect of the plandemic is that it appears to have been a joint exercise of the western intell agencies and their worst enemies in China, Russia and Iran, which is so absurd that it discredits the entire psy op angle. To believe that these sides would work together to create this gaslighting event is much more absurd than believing that lots of people did not die from the covid virus.

    Yet to dismiss this angle means that one has to accept other absurdities. And I think that my POV is now standing the test of time better than the POV of the masses of people who raised and are still raising hysteria about the dangers of the Covid virus.

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