The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Eliminationist Rhetoric

Real polarization in a country happens when different factions don’t accept the other faction has a right to exist.

When you say “traitor,” or “Go back home,” or “You don’t belong here,” what you’re saying is that someone doesn’t have a right to exist in your country. Traitor, in particular, is a strong word: Traitors are subject to the death sentence.

As long as I’ve been watching American discourse, there’s been a lot of it. It was almost completely on the right wing, but there is now some of it on the left.

Eliminationist rhetoric is dangerous, because it makes your fellows into enemies. It is the precursor to war. It is the statement: “If I could get rid of you (and killing is fine), I would.”

You see it in a lot of countries with problems. I’m always astonished at just how much the opposition in Venezuela hates Chavistas, for example. Many of them really, really want to kill them. They consider them illegitimate traitors.

The US has always had an “America First” bunch who aren’t just isolationists (US isolationism would be fine by me). They really, truly hate colored people, Jews, “liberals,” “Commies,” and so on. If they could, they’d hang them from lamp-posts.

But understand clearly that when you start saying “Nazi” and “Fascist,” you’re damn close saying that it’s okay to kill those people as well, because killing Nazis is justified.

Of course, if they are Nazis and close to taking power, well, perhaps they should be killed? You’d cheer for the Germans if they’d stopped Hitler in a huge purge, wouldn’t you? (This isn’t a way of saying don’t oppose Nazis, and that’s the dangerous thing about it.)

Seems to me the US is on a dangerous road. It’s entirely possible that this too will pass, but I see a lot of hate that’s reaching dangerous levels.

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Scenarios for America’s Political Future


Inequality Is Unnatural



    It’d be constructive to compare and contrast this blog post with the Basic Ethics and When Violence Is Justified blog post.

    In the meantime, there’s this.

    Kill Them All!!

  2. ponderer

    I agree its very dangerous. It probably is occasionally justified but rarely applied correctly. Traitor has specific conditions / meanings from the Constitution that insures it is almost always missapplied. I’ve been guilty of that myself.

    With the destruction of the middle class the stakes have increased. I don’t think we would have the divisions we have now if the economy were serving 90% of people. Though Ian mentions killing people as a possibility, its actually long past that stage. We regularly destroy lives in the US, look at the deaths of despair. Politics is becoming a life or death issue for many people in “flyover country”. The economic malaise the Costal areas face was already a fact of life in the middle and south of the country for decades. The trust of government and political parties are both on the decline. Wall Street kills 100+k per year to keep our financial system just as it is. It’s not surprising that there is a lot of hate in our society. Honestly, there should be, but it is focused on the wrong people thanks to the media and tech sector.

  3. bob mcmanus

    Well, there is eliminationist rhetoric, and then there are programs or goals with existential consequences which can be de facto eliminationist. Both Civil Wars (60s and 60s, we are still fighting the latter, and reaching a peak) were life and death matters and moral imperatives on both sides. When I was a teenager, I felt that most of the country didn’t care if I died in Vietnam, and might even celebrate my death.

    I have long felt, that even though I hate the racists, homophobes, forced-birthers, imperialists; that a small space should be left for them, because they will kill and die without one.

  4. “It was almost completely on the right wing, but there is now some on the left.”

    In terms of the main stream media, you’d have a hard time convincing me that the opposite isn’t true. After all, it was Trump who supposedly colluded with the Russkis. Maybe a dedicated reader of this blog can use lexis/nexis (or whatever) to prove that you are correct. Or not.

    You may well be right in terms of non-mainstream media. I think your typical breitbart reader is more likely to casually toss around the phrase “traitor”, than your typical dailykos reader. Ah, but your dailykos reader is more likely to casually toss around the phrase “racist”.

    I wrote about what I called “hate keeping” many years ago. I’ve little concern it’ll lead to civil war. What it does “accomplish”, however, is keeping the public divided, and thus easy prey for continued plutocratic control.

    There used to be a group that operated on a trans-partisan basis. They may still be around. (I don’t remember their name.) Their central feature was to first figure out what different factions of citizens HAD IN COMMON, or COULD BOTH SUPPORT*. Obviously, you can’t get to even this starting point with people you’ve demonized…

    There’s a real need for a youtube channel or two which dissects, on a daily basis, the talking points being hurled around by our political leaders, as well as mainstream media hosts and talking head guests, which makes clear what frames and filters they evidence. I think it was Noam Chomsky who said that main stream media lies mostly by omission. If you added some humor and satire, you might end up with a worthy successor to Jon Stewart’s “The Daily Show”, but with potentially more value to civil society.

    One thing I’m sure both Fox and MSNBC will omit to mention is that, while verbal food fights between Trump and “the squad” will drive up ratings, it will also divert attention from serious matters.

    * One thing I hope that both CO2 catastrophists and people I consider more rational have in common, is a desire to avoid famine. Famine could be mitigated by large scale storage of foodstuffs, e.g. IMO, this should have transpartisan support, with only fanatics of either side objecting.
    There are reports of partially empty grocery shelves ALREADY. And predictions of food shortages have come from both the CO2 catastrophist camp, as well as the non-CO2 catastrophist camp. E.g.:

  5. GrimJim

    The Right in the US has always been inimical to anything not White, Male, Christian, and Rich; their Femal and Poor fellow travelers have always been around for scraps; the Right has always been Exclusionist, with the proviso that non-whites are welcome as long as they “know their place”. The Left believes there is room for everyone, and everyone has the same rights to human dignity. Now the Right is going all-in on being exclusionary, and the bedraggled Left is doing all it can just to keep the Right from killing those it does not like…

  6. Herman

    If it is any consolation there is at least some evidence that polarization (or party sorting as he describes it) is largely limited to what Morris Fiorina calls the “political class” which includes politicians, donors and issue activists. The ordinary public is actually not as divided as the political class.

    A number of scholars do not agree with Fiorina but I tend to think he is right because his description of the majority of the population fits with what I notice in my daily life. Outside of deeply ideological partisans most people are not really invested in ideology and many are not even interested in politics. About 40 percent of eligible voters don’t even vote in presidential election years when turnout is usually highest.

    The problem is that hardcore ideologues now dominate politics in the United States (yes that even includes neoliberal Democrats, their cosmopolitan neoliberalism is an ideology) and so even if most people are not dangerously polarized the people who dominate politics are. I think the problem is going to get worse until we either get an FDR/Reagan type of figure who can produce a new consensus ideology for the country or things get so bad that the military steps in to restore order. I think the first option is better although it of course depends on what the new dominant ideology will be.

  7. Joe

    I’m pretty convinced we are going see violence over the 2020 election. I’m also pretty convinced we are going to see an insurgency and a civil war soon thereafter too.

    I’m a gun guy, I shoot a lot and hang out with other gun guys. If 99% of the violent rhetoric I overhear at the three ranges I shoot at is bullshit…well, what’s left over is pretty fucking grim.

  8. Willy

    The Francoists colluded with the corporatists and Catholics so that Franco could run everything. With their help he spent 40 years religio-terraforming Spanish society, officially persecuting leftists and secularists (unofficially his own personal enemies).

    After all that effort, Spain is now a secular center/ center-left country.

    You’d think there’d be a lesson to be learned from all that. But no. Too many people are wired to protect and serve traditional values without giving any serious thought to the consequences of what it is they’re being led to do.

  9. BlizzardOfOz

    If people want to avoid trouble, then why do they insist on forcing the most diverse tribes of people on the planet to live as neighbors and pretend to be each other’s countrymen? Inquiring minds want to know. It would seem that, quite to the contrary, they are deliberately courting it.

  10. @Joe
    I think so too, regardless of which side wins. The precedent has been set. “Not my president,” regardless of the outcome, and that will only be the starting point. The losing side of the 2016 election uncaged a beast that cannot be recaged.

  11. Willy


    Is intolerance to diversity really the issue? You’d think if it was, old New York City’s incoming Irish, Italians, Poles, Jews and blacks would’ve been kicked out long ago. It seems far more likely that the degree to which incoming others are despised, is in direct correlation with the degree to which the incomers are seen as threats to the natives livelihoods.

    What this inquiring mind wants to know, is why are the incoming others being blamed first and foremost for any and all trouble. I’ve wanted the borders sealed from illegals for decades. But even I know that the primary threat to native jobs (and “American greatness”) has been the corporations rampant offshoring of jobs and technologies, and their investments in automation.

  12. nihil obstet

    When you’ve got everybody hurling epithets at each other, you’ve kept anybody from working for the kind of policies that would help us all. I think this is why the elites and their enablers work so hard at doing it.

  13. NR


    Sorry, but that’s bullshit. The *winning* side of the 2016 election is the one that’s out of control with hateful, violent, and eliminationist rhetoric. Exhibit A is right here:

  14. ponderer

    None of it is really new. Before Antifa there was Weather Underground. I doubt there is anything special about 2020 as there have always been violent factions in America. The chance of civil war is, right about, 0. For all the misery and guns we have very few murderers who use a sword instead of a pen.
    Should there be a civil war it would be over in about 7 days max. That’s how long it will take your just in time (JIT) production to run out, including food stuffs. The cities will starve much faster while their logistics are more concentrated so if its in New York or LA it will only be a matter of hours before all the necessary pieces are overtaken and held. In the end who ever the military supports will win, and that will probably be Trump. As much as I despise corporate Dems its not a precedent I want set. Such violence, indeed any partisan violence only serves to benefit the 1%. It’s hard to convince people of that, they really love their hatred.

  15. Ten Bears

    If you’re concerned that those crossing the border are rapists and drug dealers coming to steal your job, I quite simply have no sympathy.

  16. sdciv

    First of all, thanks for introducing me to the term “eliminationist rhetoric”. These patterns have caught my eye for the last few years, but this is probably the best phrase to refer to it, so thanks.

    And honestly eliminationist rhetoric is everywhere these days. I can’t read a goddamn mainstream video game site without finding some, and every day some bullshit like this flashes across my twitter feed.

    It’s a shame Emmett Rensin has retired from the public sphere, since he’s the only person I can think of who approached the topic of political violence with the gravitas violence deserves.

  17. mago

    If you work in a slaughter house or pick strawberries or wash dishes or cars or whatever shit job you hold, you might want to worry about some brown skin taking your job, but they won’t be raping or drug dealing or running wild in any way that otherwise threatens your white boy lifestyle.

    Thanks Ten Bears.

  18. Fuest

    I too find this post a little bit puzzling after the one justifying violence. Not that I disagree with either.
    My only problem with you justification of violence is that it doesn’t address the fact the willingness to commit violence is asymmetrical. Also, the ones armed to the teeth are not liberals, leftists or progressives. The fascists would love to have a little bit of violence from the left in order to justify their own violent reprisals, which will be orders of magnitude greater, and will be indiscriminate against the left and minorities, whether those few who commit violence or those who disavow violence.
    But seeing how completely ineffectual, complacent and complicit the Dems are, at least with regard to the right wingers, I have little doubt we are headed to civil war (at least enough civil unrest to make the left roll over and give up this remaining charade of democracy).
    So we’re pretty much screwed. question now is do you believe you have an eternal soul, and if so, are you willing to deal with the guilt or karma that may come with participating in what’s coming.

  19. Hugh

    First, there are disagreements and disagreements. Some Trumpists have legitimate grievances. And while the Democrats offer them almost nothing, their error is that they side with Trump and the Republicans who offer them less than nothing. Then, of course, there are disagreements, like denying human-driven climate change or the Holocaust or believing that the Earth is flat, where there aren’t two sides. There is reality and those who rage against it.

    Second, Trump is a bigot and racist. You support Trump. You are a bigot and a racist. Own it.

    Third, it has been really disconcerting even for someone like me who has never supported the Republican party to see it degenerate from a party that liked to think it was filled with and was led by Marlboro Men to a bunch of whimpering, cowardly political whores, from the party of hardass Law and Order to one that wilts before a lawless President, from the party of family values to one that embraces a much married, womanizing, woman-abusing President who separates parents and children at the border, and on and on.

    Fourth, I see both Trumpism and the Republican party as manifestations of a minority in its political death throes. A once majority, now minority, willing to lie, cheat, steal, and do anything it can to hold on to power, honking off a multitude of groups that it will need in the future. I am no fan of the Democrats either, but almost all of the eliminationist rhetoric I’m hearing is originating from the Trump/Republican side. And that makes sense. The majority doesn’t have to be eliminationist because it already has the numbers on its side.

  20. Willy

    There you go Bliz. You worry too much. Just as Africans made better slaves after they went full Uncle Tom, Trump says that mexican rapists and drug dealers will make better berry pickers after he’s made America great again. Just let the narcissistic nazi do his job.

    Actually, I think Ian meant that the poison of eliminationist rhetoric doesn’t just belong to the white conservative Christians anymore. Since America became a full blown sharia nation, surpassing the critical tipping point of a 1% Moslem citizenry, those dangblasted libtard traitors will be forcing those brownie flood gates wide open. Dang, there I go again.

  21. Herman


    On the subject of the Republicans, I know I sound like a broken record, but it is really the rabid base and not all Republicans who are going off the deep end. The problem is that they dominate the primaries, the donor base and the activist base of the party so more moderate Republicans have a hard time winning and staying in office since now they have to worry about being primaried by a hard right candidate. This trend actually predates Trump and started with the Tea Party or maybe even earlier, maybe with Newt Gingrich or even Ronald Reagan.

    I think there are many Republicans who know that they will have to expand their voter base to include more minorities in the future but how do they fight the hardcore types within their own party? I am afraid that the same thing might happen with the Democrats not so much from the Bernie types but from the hardcore identitarians within the Democratic Party who are the mirror image of the white identitarians within the Republican Party.

    Identity politics will always be with us in some form but if we cannot figure out a way to create a functional politics that accommodates the many viewpoints and interests within a large, diverse country then we are in for a bumpy ride indeed. In the past we dealt with this issue via a form of transactional politics (political machines, pork barrel spending, less transparency and more wheeling and dealing) that I think most people on this blog despise but I think it might be one of the few peaceful ways out of our current predicament. Otherwise I think we will have to wait for one side in the ideological war to prevail or end up under military rule.

  22. Chiron

    Looking to today’s world and how much power the Jewish community holds on its hands and their proxies like Trump is fair to say that Hitler was pretty much right about everything less the war he lost because no one likes a loser.

  23. Joan

    I definitely agree. My friends on the left get so heated that they are reduced to this state pretty quickly. When I ask them why they lost an election, the only reasons they can come up with are insults: “the right is uneducated, misinformed, racist, hateful, so dumb they’ll vote against their own self interest” etc.

    In a system of one human per vote, this is a simple game of numbers. The working class outnumbers everyone. If your political sphere has lost the working class, then it’s worth it to examine how you can get them back and start winning elections again.

    I have also noticed that these friends cannot identify their own straw man arguments for the life of them. I remember as late as ten years ago watching friends tease Tea Party evangelicals about bisexual experiments and flirting with atheism. The left used to be a quirky and chill place to hang out, eager to scandalize for a laugh.

  24. Ten Bears

    [chuckling maniacally] You just keep thinking the ones armed to the teeth are not liberals, leftists or progressives, Fuest, you just go right ahead on ‘er, keeping thinking. That’s what I want you to do, keep thinking this old v-vet been huntin’ and fishin’, fightin’ and fuckin’ since I was ten years old is not armed to the teeth, damned familiar with and not unwilling to use them.

    Of course, I’m no liberal. Of the firm conviction there is a sizable population out there that are less than sufficiently evolved. Less than human. Animals. A clear present danger to all of our grandchildren’s survival. Just because it doesn’t have to be this way doesn’t mean I don’t know how deal with it.


    I’m amazed, I’m really not, at how silent the commentators here are about this Jeffrey Epstein business. This is a huge story. It appears Epstein was/is a Mossad agent. It’s the one glove that fits and explains all the anomalies. If Epstein mysteriously dies in custody, which is highly probable, we’ll know for sure he was a treasonous traitor working on behalf of what I now call an enemy state, Israel.

    I’m watching The Man In The High Castle right now and I’m amazed by virtue of the painstaking detail how much respect the Jewish folks responsible for bringing it to Amazon Prime have for the Nazis and the Reich. I’ve often said and I’ll say it again, the abused often become the abusers. It’s a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Those who run the state of Israel have become the Nazis, there is no doubt about it, and they substantially control American politics and finance. This is how explosive the Jeffrey Epstein story really is. Take note of how the Mossad and Israel are trying to contain it in the media. It’s much, much more than molestation of underage girls as depraved as that is. It further reveals the depravity of a psychopathic state called Israel.

    Considering Jeffrey Epstein, I believe the real gate isn’t Russiagate but Israelgate instead and no, that’s not anti-semitic. Israel is a state and Judaism is a religion. ALL Jewish people everywhere need to acknowledge that and act accordingly. It’s high time Israel be declared an enemy state and America cut off funding and cooperation with it immediately. All Israelis need to be deported. All Mossad agents on American soil need to be apprehended and executed immediately. All duel nationals need to be deported to Israel and all American Jews must refrain from supporting Israel in any way, shape or form and that includes Rabbis insisting their congregations support the state of Israel if they want to be considered good Jews.


    Why are the major media outlets in America not covering this angle like RT is? The Mossad’s reach is that deep, I suppose, and it means, necessarily, the CIA and the FBI are complicit.

    Think of Israel as the Nazis and America is part of its Reich. John Smith collectively represents all the former “patriotic” Americans who turned coat once compromised and defeated and became the quintessential Nazi zealously & indefatigably doing the bidding of the Reich in fashioning a fascist world. John Smith in The Man In The High Castle was, before America was defeated by the Reich and Japan, a decorated, high-ranking American military man and he became a superb Nazi in the aftermath. Sound familiar? All under the aegis of protecting his family. That’s always the excuse and it’s a lie.

    Trump’s an agent too, he’s just too dumb to know it. Note that when he tells “The Squad” to go back to where they came from, he alludes to their racism and anti-semitic remarks. It’s one of the few times he listens to his Mossad handlers. How is it that Stephen Miller has survived this long where all other heads have rolled? Stephen Miller is yet another Jeffrey Epstein, that’s why. It’s so crudely transparent.

    Why Epstein Is Being Called A Foreign Asset

  27. ponderer

    If any “other” group were as bad as the partisans make them out to be we would have all died out long ago. R and D actually killing each other is pretty rare (as if that should need to be said) and the numbers willing to do it, not just talk about it, are infinitesimal. Ten Bears bragging aside, they actually make the news as the MSM prime function is to divide and propagandize the populace, so there’s little chance it is happening and noone knows about it. While the Obama’s and Bush’s enjoy their lavish lifestyle the least we could do is not fall for the stupidest tricks the Elite have to offer.

    The border crosser’s have far more to fear from the Coyotes than the Border Patrol. There is plenty of documented raping and murdering done, plenty of families missing their loved ones. Fearing the presence of those kinds of people is neither irrational nor racist. Pretending they don’t exist is unbelievably dumb. Not as dumb as supporting our neoliberal Hunger Games through the disenfranchisement of illegal immigrants, nor as cruel as pitting said immigrants against the lowest of your own society. Democrats have never met a despicable Republican strategy that they couldn’t rebrand as a gift to their corporate overlords while getting the backing of their members the policies hurt the most.

  28. ponderer

    I’ve mentioned it before. It will take some time for the chips to fall on that one. Even if they get rid of Epstein its the tapes that matter. Not to many Dems want to bring up Bill’s ride on the lolita express, they might look complicit for supporting Hillary. Not to mention it makes their pandering to the Israeli lobby look pretty suspect.

    Israel deliberately attacked the USS Liberty, spied and stole nuclear weapon secrets and a whole host of other crimes. Epstein isn’t much more than a drop in the bucket (if he does have mossad connections) in their crimes against the US. There’s a good case made that they were involved in the JFK assassination and they pretty much own congress and most of the government. We’re not starting a war with Iran because its in our best interests after all.

    Hopefully something good comes out of the Epstein case and he spends many decades in prison along with his conspirators, but will we have much of a government left?

  29. Ten Bears

    I don’t know whither or no to take you seriously any more, P, but no, you’re not going to stop millions or tens of millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions, of people determined to leave someplace that has become uninhabitable by just saying “no”. A part of the world is rapidly becoming uninhabitable, and the people are leaving. You’re not going to stop it. You won’t stop it. It can’t be stopped.

    And it is playing out equally on both sides of the planet:

    When we look to the middle east and beyond the wars over oil and religious insanity we find drought. Mega-drought, rapid desertification, and the outright theft of one nation/state’s water by her neighbor to the south. And famine. That population is fleeing north. It can’t be stopped. It won’t be stopped.

    So too on our side of the pond, something I’ve been pointing to for several years but only recently catching the attention of the mainstream with the advent of drumpf uck’s ooga-booga caravan of Central American refugees fleeing not just US induced crime and violence but drought. Mega-drought, rapid desertification and famine. That population is fleeing north. It can’t be stopped. It won’t be stopped.

    As this thin layer of gases we live in enveloping the only rock we know of we can live on continue to grow ever more toxic the central to northern migrations will be unlike anything seen since the Neanderthal. It’s already happening in Eurasia, where the “civil” wars are as much about water as religious idiocy, or oil. It is happening here. It may be beyond our comprehension. We are distracted by the politics, bloodshed and War, but the migrations out of N Africa and the Middle East and Central America and the Islands are drought related.

    You can’t stop the migration. Ask the Neanderthal.

    The last time carbon dioxide was this thick, we weren’t even human.

    The USS Liberty was and is a pretty fucked up deal. “Allies” my rosy red ass.

  30. BlizzardOfOz

    Willy, what do you call a guy who mocks his own people, his own flesh and blood, and sides with their mortal enemy? I think there’s a name for that guy.

  31. Ché Pasa

    “Eliminationism” is a foundational part of the USA. It’s always been there, hasn’t it, going back to original English settlers — some of whom were themselves subjected to elimination/removal from England.

    The tendency to eliminate perceived rivals or enemies by removal, genocide, or what have you may be hard wired into the species, I don’t know. But I do know it can be suppressed or diverted, even turned into something else. On the other hand, we see how easily some people can be whipped to an eliminationist frenzy and how deadly it can be. The energy of eliminationist fervor can destroy not only the targets and victims but the perpetrators as well. Once unleashed, it’s very hard to tame.

    The odd thing is that the current wave of eliminationism seems to be induced in all sorts of places by cynical political forces seeking power for themselves — the few against the many — and the targets have few or no skills with which to counter or even to protect themselves. The very fact that someone in power for the moment wants you gone or dead is enough for them to assert authority over you, and you have no genuine recourse at all. “Fighting back” is all well and good, but too often accomplishes the opposite of intent. Maybe that’s why so often the targets/victims submit without a fight. They believe sincerely there’s no point, the result is the same.

    Apparently Our Betters have decided to let things play out as they will. After all, it doesn’t affect them, does it? They are not the targets….

  32. Bill Hicks

    It’s America itself that needs to be “eliminated” if humanity is going to have any chance of long term survival.

  33. ponderer

    @Ten Bears
    The neanderthals didn’t have heavy machine guns. It can and will be stopped. Not just here but across the world. When it comes down to survival, humanity has a knack for being inhuman. I wish it weren’t so but that’s what will happen when unsustainable populations invade their neighbors and that’s what it will be, invasion. I don’t think the reasons you cite for migration are a factor now. I suspect it is the destabilizing work of NGO’s, like in Europe, intent on causing ever more conflict and pushing far right or far left policies.
    The insanity is expecting to double or triple the population while providing food and shelter for the same. I don’t see many willing to adopt an extra child into their family every year, especially for children with emotional issues. That’s not something any responsible adult would do without a serious, realizable plan for providing for them. Somehow some of those same people push for unregulated unsustainable immigration. At the same time they push for radical environmental policies that are not conducive to such immigration or large populations in general. The left’s play book has been unrealistic for a long time, and I think that’s fed into the delusions that the only problem is some other tribe who just don’t want us to have nice things.

    The challenge of society isn’t to find people like you and conquer the rest. That can work, but it’s messy and unstable. The challenge is to find commonalities that can allow everyone to live together and prosper. I think Ian’s point was just that. Once you decide that everyone must feel and live as you do in your interests, you prevent yourself from ever getting 90% of what you want not to mention taking the risk of being conquered.

  34. Willy


    I have witnessed on Christian TV channels, support for the KSA. Trump is on video record kissing KSA ass (and Kim and Putin dynasty ass… Are these Friends? Enemies?)

    Since 9-11, 2/3 of Americans have held negative views of the KSA. Recently that nation (the rulership) has ramped up its DC lobbying efforts to tens of millions annually.

    Then there’s this:

    One might assume they’re mending differences the Christian/Moslem way. Or… it could just be just so much more elite gamesmanship (public posturing for personal benefit).

    Hard to tell who the traitors are these days isn’t it?

    But not really, if one thinks about it.

  35. Tom

    Iran has seized two UK owned Supertankers.

    Medsar, also UK owned, has only just been seized according to those tracking Ships.

    All because Britain decided EU sanctions on Oil Shipments to Syria apply to Third Countries last week when it seized an Iranian owned ship with oil heading to Syria.

    This also follows an Israeli Airstrike in Iraq earlier today and Iran releasing footage showing its drone yesterday was not shot down per US Claims, while the UAE says their ship wasn’t seized by the Iranians a few days ago like the US claimed.


  36. someofparts


    re: Epstein business

    “There’s no need to invoke the Mafia/Russia/Mossad/CIA/etc, that’s just needlessly overfitting.”

  37. Mike Barry

    From the UN Careers site,

    “Since 1946 the Organization has gradually transformed itself into a global Secretariat with a workforce that now numbers some 44,000 specialized men and women.”

    From the UNWRA site,

    “Working at UNRWA

    UNRWA has over 30,000 employees, most of them Palestine refugees”

    So 30,000 out of 44,000 UN employees are Palestinian. Tell us again how the Jews control the world?

    Bottom line, no actually believes this filth. Those who profess otherwise are only pretending. Let them choke to death on their own hate.,

  38. Fuest

    “[chuckling maniacally] You just keep thinking the ones armed to the teeth are not liberals, leftists or progressives, Fuest, you just go right ahead on ‘er, keeping thinking. That’s what I want you to do, keep thinking this old v-vet been huntin’ and fishin’, fightin’ and fuckin’ since I was ten years old is not armed to the teeth, damned familiar with and not unwilling to use them.”

    You seem to say you are refuting my point, 10 bears, and yet I feel like you confirmed it.

    I have no idea how well or poorly armed antifa is, but I can’t imagine their numbers are significant, and they will certainly be the first ones eliminated no matter how well armed. They’re already being labeled terrorists. Certainly most Americans find them more threatening than actual fascist group with actual murders under their belts.

    I totally agree with che pasa on the what’s the point sentiment. I got gay bashed by Mexicans in my youth, and my first impulse when I couldn’t get away was to yell for help, but no sound would come out of my throat because it just seemed so useless to expect hets to lift a finger for me. Then I figured I’d just give up and die and be over with it all. I was only able to muster up a fight when it occurred to me those tiny dick little shits might not actually kill me and I’d be a vegetable or cripple for the rest of my life if I didn’t fight them off.

  39. Willy

    You know how Walmart uses public funding to supplement their employees? Maybe the Jews use the UN to supplement their evicted/conquered Palestinans.

    Not being serious.

    Actually, it does seem that the psychopathic influence in Israel is pretty strong. The good idea of a Jewish homeland gone wrong. Just like a Western corporation. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

    Those kinds of ideas fall into the rumor that the main reason things are so screwed up is that psychopaths rule the world. Maybe their kind is covertly inspiring the eliminationist rhetoric, to keep the heat off themselves. IME that’s pretty much natural born behavior for them.

  40. Some guy in Beijing

    I remember in grad school, where I had to do media studies for my journalism course, reading an analysis about media leading up to the Rwandan genocide. The study focused on radio broadcasts, where the word \”cockroach\” was used by one faction to describe and dehumanize the other faction. The rhetoric in online comments and even from certain media outlets has given me chills

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