If you’re pro-Obama you’re an idiot, on the payroll, or evil

Of course, McCain would have started a war in Iran.

Happy corvids.

corrections:

…Is this dumbness or evil intent?…

…And if so, why cannot we defeat it?

sorry.

“But he will be worse in large part because of Obama, because Obama has institutionalized Bush’s constitutional order and taken it even further, in creating the so-called Super Congress to end run the democratic process.”

Worse yet, all his failings are in liberalism’s name–what else are confused Americans supposed to think when their authentic liberal friends and coworkers continue to support the president or are reluctant to primary the SOB. Of course, Versailles is down with ascribing liberalism to this admin. But uncorrected by millions of Americans who do indeed know better…

So, after 30 years of Reaganomics, the liberal correction the country was waiting for, however misguided they may have been about the messiah, is now utterly invalidated. Even a 3rd party figure espousing authentic liberal narratives will be laughed off the stage as another hope monger. Utter fucking fail, for years we don’t have.

Ian, you are my favorite economics authority, but you’re often so subtle that it makes me wish you would just come flat out and say how you feel.

If I understand what you are trying to say here ; -) , I agree “We Are phuk’d.”

I had always feared Obama’s ties to the institutional culture of that Chicago monument to the great Robber Baron Rockefeller; aka University of Chicago. It is my read that the Fresh Water (Chicago) School of Economics is a cross-disciplinary pursuit involving both UC’s law school and business school.

While I must stretch for even the most rudimentary understanding of economics, what Obama brought to town certainly looks more like Chile than an American Democratic president.

I am interested in your very learned opinion.

thnx

“Is ‘evil’ dumb? And if so, why cannot we defeat it?”

My belief is, we’re losing because so many Americans work diligently against their own interests. “It’s too bad Obama is like a Republican on jobs, government spending, war, education, and justice. I’m going to vote for him, though.”

You can’t help people who won’t help themselves.

I just want to scream!
So, we know what the fuck we’re doing! Ha! Bullshit!
We’re all bozos on the same bus to hell.
I got off the bus; but so what? I’m still a god damned Amercan tied to the fucking S.S.

NEXT the Draft to play the great game.

So, what you’re saying is that they’re ALL assholes?

What am I MISSING?

Oh. Right.

Nothing.

Rush just compared him to Robert Mugabe, and I’m sure that meme will have legs. I work for the government, and I still have to listen to coworkers who are not even that conservative go on about how Obama is spending us into oblivion. Since Obama preemptively offered to freeze government pay last go-round of budget negotiations, I wonder how they’ll feel when he preemptively cuts our pay and benefits (no more 401K-like matching contributions, quadrupling our contributions to our defined benefit pensions, RIFs, furloughs, etc). Point is, the people of this country are just dogshit stupid. On the bright side, he’s totally looking like a one termer. Can’t wait to see what’s left of the country when Mittens takes over.

“The tea party loons don’t even know what the fuck they are fighting for.”

Ya, exactly. They’re like the village idiot that knows they should be pissed-off, but just don’t know at whom they should be pissed-off. I say spin ’em around a couple of times and point them in the right direction and you’ll be laughing; watch the mayhem ensue 😀

and some Republicans i know think Obama is a “liberal.” after 30 years of brainwashing, i’m still surprised at how well the propaganda worked/works. the Liberal brand is gone, thanks a lot, Clinton, Reid, Pelosi, Hoyer et al.

McCain would have helped Bibi attack Iran and all hell would have come crashing down upon us.
Hillary would have done the same just behind the scenes.

there is no hope anymore, at least for America, or any time soon. the house of cards must come crashing down. to hear anyone say they will vote for Obama is further proof of “Idiot America”.

i no longer expect otherwise from the zombies. it’s been so long now. i am almost steeled against such idiocy.
being perceptive about the Elite’s Contract on America shows i am in a very small minority.

i am looking to move as soon as i can. having grown up in a more “functional” American society was a very bad thing for me to have experienced at this stage of my life. i no longer tolerate the destruction of my country with any sense of complacent acceptance. i am more than outraged. i am stunned. it is just amazing to see such idiocy. the last “debt ceiling” interlude showed me how “easily” many people still buy the propaganda from the Elites, no questions asked. Proof positive how well the “Contract on America” works

in the meantime, i have to live with these “idiots”. that is the hardest part.

In regards to obama, I’d say that quite a few of the obama lovers are both stupid and evil … and their voracious ego is the root cause. They feel good about themselves for voting for obama and they can’t admit they’re wrong …. and that’s more important to them than the truth.

Z

Bernard PERMALINK
August 4, 2011

i am looking to move as soon as i can. having grown up in a more “functional” American society was a very bad thing for me to have experienced at this stage of my life. i no longer tolerate the destruction of my country with any sense of complacent acceptance. i am more than outraged. i am stunned. it is just amazing to see such idiocy. the last “debt ceiling” interlude showed me how “easily” many people still buy the propaganda from the Elites, no questions asked. Proof positive how well the “Contract on America” works
in the meantime, i have to live with these “idiots”. that is the hardest part.
==================================================

Nice. Well said; my feelings exactly and I did move. It mostly helps, but as my expletive laden post above shows; even 12,000 km isn’t enough some times. I’ve never suffered idiots well or gracefully…

anon2525, you continue to imply that a return to the Shangri-La of FDR Keynesianism is all that is needed. Similarly, there are others, fewer by the day, that still believe Marxism is the way to the promised land. There’s no going back. That was a specific time and place…. a point in it, and whereas what Keynes espoused may have made sense then, it makes no sense now because the assumptions on which those theories rested are no longer valid, or applicable. Your harkening back is very important, in and of itself, though, because it is very telling about the predicament in which we, meaning Humanity, find ourselves. It tells me that Creativity is dead. The lack of creative thought is everywhere these days. In its place, we find repackaged remakes of irrelevant, by-gone theories and ideologies.

And, you keep leading the sheep back to the pen, by pointing to Establishment Exceptionalists such as Olberman, Stewart and Colbert. I watched that Olberman segment for about two minutes before shutting it off. His Exceptionalism is nauseating, and he still clings to the notion that Obama, and the Democratic leadership, have lowered themselves to the level of the Repubs and Tea Baggers. Hogwash!! They were always that low, and to imply otherwise is idiotic and duplicitous.

Here’s my Black Agenda Report to see your White-Bread Olberman, Colbert, Stewart…….and the Cadillac-hawking Dylan.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/obama-fake-debt-ceiling-crisis_smarter-than-you

Still don’t believe it’s the job of corporate Democrats to push the corporate agenda further than Republicans ever could? When Bush 2 couldn’t even pass his own bankster bailout in September of 2008, he called Barack Obama in off the campaign trail to round up a sufficient number of Democratic votes, including votes in the Congressional Black Caucus, to pass the Bush bailout. Before even assuming office, Barack Obama was carrying out Republican policies even Republicans could not enact. Upon becoming president himself, Barack Obama quintupled down on the $3 trillion Bush bankster bailout with a further $16 trillion, the largest transfer of public wealth to private hands in the history of humankind.

So if you’re an Obama supporter, and you’re disappointed that your president won’t fight for you — if you’re an Obama supporter and you wonder why the president won’t stand up for Medicaid, Medicare and social security — here’s the answer. The president really, really is smarter than you. He knows what side he’s on and you don’t. He knows that the two-party system is a veal pen, where as long as “he can play good cop to the Republicans’ ever worsening bad cop, the game is fixed, and not in your favor.

Look out! Over there! It’s President Michelle Bachman!

Greg

The wiki entry on the Tea Party lumps without making a distinction anti Patriot Act non-interventionist Ron Paul (the true tacit founder) with pro- Patriot Act war hawk interventionists Palin and Bachmann (the Zionist/corporate sponsored poseurs.)

If anybody wants to write from the assumed stance that the original Tea Party is not worth
revamping and salvaging and the poseurs purged, however, I’m okay with that.

I’ll tell you how, lorq. To whom do the changes apply? Seriously? There aren’t any fucking jobs, for Christ’s Sake. Remember? Unless these changes apply to China and India, it’s a big Nothing Burger compared to the 50,ooo lb. elephant in the room.

It goes something like this:

“Hey, if you had a job, you could collectively bargain with minimized employer interruption….if you had a job, but you don’t have one, so shut the hell up and eat your shit sandwich, you maggot. Oh, and old people, crawl under a rock and die, you useless eating pond scum. All hail the One Percenters, for we have inherited the Earth.”

I just finished reading Deer Hunting With Jesus and Rainbow Pie, both by the late Joe Bageant. I think my IQ went up the 80 points with that change of perspective as noted above. These two books will provide answers to some of the questions here by explaining how the deliberate creation of a white American underclass was accomplished. And is ongoing. I am so glad I left the U.S. years ago but I’m afraid I didn’t go far enough. Actually, there is no place that is far enough, so it doesn’t matter. Hold onto your hats, folks.

Instead, people need history lessons from the 30s to explain that what is being proposed by obama&co is what Herbert Hoover did–strive for a balanced budget to help the economy. (This sounds like the common sense action to take, and it is wrong.) And that what Roosevelt did was to spend on direct jobs programs which was paid for by spending more than was taken in (deficit spending).

Historian David Woolner at the Roosevelt Institute has written a brief description of some of the details of this history today: Bringing on the “Obama Recession” by Forgetting the Lessons of Keynes and FDR

Greg:

The tea party loons don’t even know what the fuck they are fighting for.

The Tea Party is proto-fascist. Many of its members have the outlook of fascists.

A fascist knows that things are bad, that things are going to hell. But they can’t bring themselves to blame the people at the top of their society, the ones with the power who have screwed up. No, their culture’s myths and homilies about its own goodness and greatness, myths they hold dear, is the big “shiny” that distracts them from seeing it.

So–as a former history professor of mine once said–a mental “short circuit” occurs and since they don’t have the moral courage and intellectual fortitude to blame those at the top, they blame those at the bottom, the people who have traditionally in their society been powerless: Jews, gays, blacks, Latinos, immigrants, those of different religions, etc. Yes, in their mind somehow the people with the least power are somehow responsible for the mess, not those with the most.

But what I don’t understand is how Obama has a 70 % approval rating among self-described “liberals”. Are these not paying attention? Even on Kos many are snarking and ridiculing this president.

-StewartM

The basic principles of Keynesian economics were hard to create, but aren’t hard to understand.

People understand that when they lose their job, they have to spend less, not more.

People understand that when a company loses customers, it has to cut payroll, not increase it.

They then apply this same reasoning to gov’t. spending, which is why the “family budget” metaphor resonates with so many of them. It is hard for them to understand why what applies to them should not apply to the fed. gov’t.

You seem to be somewhat undecided regarding Keynesianism and resource-constraints.

If you look back through Ian Welsh’s archives, you will see that I have proposed a “backwards solution.” (It’s not a great intellectual achievement or proposal, but it does or can rectify the problem you describe.)

Backwards solution:

1) Provide a job guarantee
2) Decide what problems to address and employ people in programs that work on those problems
3) Figure out how to pay for it

This is “backwards” because it is the opposite of what political forces have been arguing:

1) Figure out how to pay for it — “We can’t afford it. We’re broke. We need to cut spending to balance our budget, just like your family has to.”
2) Decide what problems to address — “Gov’t. can’t solve problems; gov’t. only creates problems: bureaucracy, waste, fraud, abuse, and so on.”
3) Provide a job guarantee — “The gov’t. can’t create jobs and never has.”

In the short term, everyone needs a job or source of income in order to provide for immediate needs. They cannot and will not work on medium and long term problems of resource constraints and climate change when they have to concentrate their minds on their immediate needs.

Replacing the fossil-fuel energy foundation of the world economy is a considerable task. A large, multi-national program of coordinated, collective action is needed to do this. Private capital has shown itself unwilling or unable to do address this problem (or both). The people who are unemployed can be employed to address this problem or to work at jobs that might be abandoned as some in the private sector join this program.

Ensuring a diverse biosphere is likewise a considerable task. It, too, will require a large, multi-national program if there is to be any hope of civilization surviving this century. At this time, given the lack of response, I don’t think it is likely that it will survive. More people need a sense of urgency if there is to be a response.

“I work for the government, and I still have to listen to coworkers who are not even that conservative go on about how Obama is spending us into oblivion.”

Did you explain to them why the fed. gov’t. suddenly increased its deficit as a result of the financial crisis that unfolded in 2008? Or, are they a lost cause that cannot be reasoned with?

Here is a tool from the Bureau of Labor Statistics that can be useful to help explain this:

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000

You can use it to show how employment has fallen (“and can’t get up!”), which has caused gov’t. revenues to fall while increasing some gov’t. expenses. You can select the range of years from the present back to 1948. Earlier than the mid-seventies, it should be recalled that most married women did not work, so going too far back results in comparing “apples with oranges.” We can see that the current fall is unlike any other in the past thirty years in its steepness and its longevity.

It is worth keeping this tool bookmarked going forward because it provides a better indicator (percentage employed), than the one that is publicly used by politicians and the corporate media (the unemployment percentage – “9.1%”).

Chancellor Merkel said…

So, too, did Herbert Hoover, and even Roosevelt (twice!) when he was campaigning in 1932 and again in 1937.

Keynes’s quote from historian Woolner’s article (which I cited earlier):

“The economic experiments of President Roosevelt may prove, I think, to be of extraordinary importance in economic history, because for the first time — at least I cannot recall a comparable case — theoretical advice is being taken by one of the rulers of the world as the basis of large-scale action. The possibility of such a remarkable event has arisen out of the utter and complete discredit of every variety of orthodox advice. The state of mind in America which lies behind this willingness to try unorthodox experiments arises out of an economic situation desperate beyond precedent.” (emphasis added)

There were no food stamps or unemployment insurance or Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid then, which is why the current economic situation is not yet “desperate beyond precedent.”

“People understand that when they lose their job, they have to spend less, not more. People understand that when a company loses customers, it has to cut payroll, not increase it.”

Try explaining to them that our government does not live by the same rules–it creates the very money it spends, after all.

And anyway, families borrow money for important purchases all the time, so why shouldn’t a government?

Try explaining to them that our government does not live by the same rules–it creates the very money it spends, after all.

And anyway, families borrow money for important purchases all the time, so why shouldn’t a government?

Your example illustrates some of the difficulty. In your first sentence, you say that the gov’t. creates the money it spends, which households cannot do (and therefore do not know the rules about), while in your second sentence you say that families borrow money, which people understand. But in many people’s minds, this simply leads them to conclude that the gov’t. has borrowed too much money, which they understand that families can also do.

Leading a large number of people to think clearly and correctly about economics is not going to be easy to do, I don’t think. It is easier to point out the similarities of the current policies with past policies that have failed, and contrast them with what has worked.

In fact, this is why Ian Welsh, Krugman, and others have argued that Obama’s 2009 stimulus was, in one respect, mistaken–because it would fail to be large enough to bring the economy back to full employment, and then would provide an historical example that would be used against future proposed gov’t. stimulus spending. In other words, politicians would use recent history to make their case, rather than economic reasoning.

Morocco Bama
August 5, 2011
Diana, do you not realize that at this point in time, your vote will be used against you in every instance? You can’t vote your way out of this. I know, I know, it makes you feel better……that you’re a part of it, that you have some kind of say. That was/is its intention….the illusion that your opinion matters…..but it is just that, an illusion. If the circumstances are to change, you have to drop the illusions, once and for all.
————————–
No Morocco, it never occurred to me – clearly I’m not as enlightened as you. Thanks for letting me know that I just do it to make myself feel better. You’re right, I need to just drop those illusions and be more like you – because you obviously know more than everyone else – the rest of us are just sheep.

btw – I went to jail trying to prevent the war in Iraq. Aside from dropping your patronizing pearls of wisdom on a blog – what did you do?

anon2525 permalink
August 5, 2011

Actually, there is no place that is far enough, so it doesn’t matter.

More news that our situation is far worse than it was in the 1930s:

Data Shows All of Earth’s Systems in Rapid Decline

UXBRIDGE, Canada, Jul 29, 2011 (IPS) – Protecting bits of nature here and there will not prevent humanity from losing our life support system. Even if areas dedicated to conserving plants, animals, and other species that provide Earth’s life support system increased tenfold, it would not be enough without dealing with the big issues of the 21st century: population, overconsumption and inefficient resource use.

Without dealing with those big issues, humanity will need 27 planet Earths by 2050, a new study estimates.

But you see, the Austerians have a solution. They will simply kill off a whole sh*tload of poor people, who are “using resources inefficiently” unlike their own august selves.

They don’t need the gas ovens in this century. They can kill tens of millions with fiscal policy.

Austerity, the Final Solution

I truly believe this is why none of them even bother to mention overpopulation.

I’m still a rectal virgin, so no, I didn’t go to jail, but I’m not sure that was any different than doing nothing. Explain to me how it was? Last time I checked, the U.S. went to war in Iraq, so I would say the tactic of going to jail wasn’t very effective.
But still, Diana, that’s a red herring on your part. Why do you vote if you know that it is just used against you. Either you think your vote really matters, or you realize it doesn’t and do it anyway. If it’s the latter, I will concede I could be wrong about the motivation, and if so, why not fill us in on exactly what your motivation is, since you are brazen enough to announce that you do indeed vote….meaning, that if you make your personal actions public, as you have, you should be able to support the motivation for those actions, otherwise, don’t make them public and stick to opinion.
——————————
Is the “rectal virgin” thing supposed to be funny? Because frankly, it just comes across as creepy and homophobic. yuck. I took part in civil disobedience and was arrested – though that was not my intention or tactic, it is a potential consequence. No, obviously it didn’t work, but I don’t think that means it’s worthless.

Re red herring – I’m not sure you know what that means. I vote – because I do think it matters on a local level. Also, I think it matters because voting third party indicates that voters did not want more right wing policies. So basically, rather than not vote or vote Republican (which again, I’m just not physically capable of doing), I vote third party. Yes, I do consider the possibility that my vote may be used against me (though unlike you, I don’t think it’s a certainty) – but again, I think voting is important on a local level.

Also, I don’t think announcing that I vote can be considered “brazen” as it’s hardly a controversial act? Voting is still considered to be a basic civic duty. Honestly, it sounds like you are being defensive because apparently you do nothing other than comment on blogs.

At some point President Teabag will realize that the only thing which will provide enough help to the economy to get him reelected is a new, even bigger war.

At the risk of stating the obvious, that won’t work this time. Our current, and IMHO vastly overblown, defense budget is somewhere around $650 billion, give or take. The estimate of our economy’s underuse of its capacity is somewhere north of $2 trillion. Tripling the defense budget when they don’t even want to pay for what they’re spending now just doesn’t strike me as an option. Besides, any war we got into that required a WWII-level armaments program would have to have an opponent so dangerous that we risk a nuclear confrontation.

Not that they won’t try, mind you, but it’s not going to work.

Maybe we could, oh, I don’t know, rebuild our infrastructure and educate our kids instead? 😉

Nader is working to primary Obama in 2012; link; http://tinyurl.com/3ex3yam

Wouldst that it happen; oh please, oh please…

Is the “rectal virgin” thing supposed to be funny? Because frankly, it just comes across as creepy and homophobic. yuck.

It’s satire, Diana, something lost on you, apparently. Look up satire and refresh your memory about its intent. Prison rape is a very real issue, so for you to suggest that because you went to prison, you are somehow superior, is rather insulting to all the males, and females, who are raped in the prison system day in and day out. Also, the homophobic comment is so ridiculously, and typically, “Liberal.” It tells me that you voted for Obama because he was Black….because he would have been the first Black President. Are you familiar with Charles Bukowski, Diana? I didn’t think you were, nor would you ever be, because you would fail to understand his point in the poem The Genius of The Crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gifEn61dZBc

You didn’t mention civil disobedience, you mentioned jail, and it comes off as braggadocio, you wear it like a badge of honor…..look at me, I went to jail….nah, nah, nah, nah…nah.

No, I don’t want to go to jail, and I don’t want anyone else to go to jail, because jail is an evil place, increasingly corporatized. I believe, to the extent it’s possible, to engage in non-cooperation with the System. Going to jail is not something to brag about, because not only does it fail as a measure of resistance, it only serves to embolden and facilitate the System. The Corporate Prison System needs growth, as all Corporations do, in order to survive, and here you want me, and everyone else here, to supply that growth….to the very same Beast that wages war in far off lands.

So, no thanks. I am phobic about being raped, and I think my rectum is how I will raped in prison….there’s much precedence for that. Call that “homophobic”, if you like, but then I will have to compare you to Bobby Knight who once retorted to a journalist that he didn’t understand what the big hoopla was about rape….that a woman might as well lay back and enjoy it.

Re red herring – I’m not sure you know what that means.

Here’s a chance for you to learn, but I’m not going to lay it out on a silver platter for you. You obviously don’t know what it means, because you use them quite frequently. My suspicion is that you don’t care what it means, and will never care what it means, and you will continue to use them because it makes you feel better.

I vote – because I do think it matters on a local level. Also, I think it matters because voting third party indicates that voters did not want more right wing policies. So basically, rather than not vote or vote Republican (which again, I’m just not physically capable of doing), I vote third party. Yes, I do consider the possibility that my vote may be used against me (though unlike you, I don’t think it’s a certainty) – but again, I think voting is important on a local level.

We weren’t talking about the local level…we were talking about Presidents, and voting for them. You were the one who said you couldn’t get yourself to vote for Obama as though, once again, that was some red badge of courage, and some form of protest. It’s not. At other than the local level, the reality makers will use your vote against you……and they just adore that you consider it your civic responsibility….what more could they ask for….those who vote because they consider it their civic responsibility, and those who don’t vote because they don’t give a damn. What they don’t like is those who don’t vote because they do give a damn…..those are the dangerous ones because they’re not cooperating.

Honestly, it sounds like you are being defensive because apparently you do nothing other than comment on blogs.

You do realize that you are insulting the majority of commentators to this blog, and Ian himself with this admonition, don’t you? If you think that blogging is worthless, why are you here posting? Why are you haranguing people for reading and posting? If you think it’s worthless, and you may have a point, then have the temerity to sign out and off and head straight to your county jail for voluntary lock-up, since that’s a more effective tactic.

the whole concept of protesting, as Diana did, is futile nowadays. the Iraq war is an example of that. the days of protesting via nonviolent means are over. of achieving change. until and unless people die in protests, the media won’t report on it, even then i’m not sure it does any good.

to think the Powers that Be pay us, the little people/voters, any mind is another sign of illusionary non thinking. i always think about how during the Bush reign, they separated the protesters into an area away from the event. and never ever covered it in the media. just one minute soundbites, at most.

everything is managed and controlled. i doubt even local voting does any good. the money corrupts everyone, it seems.

as far as trying to “reach” my coworkers with reason, lol. well, they look at me as if i was crazy. that empty stare, that i might upset their “thinking” and cause disruption to their “simplified” world. with all the trouble in their lives today, i can understand why they choose NOT to listen to anyone that would upset their world. it is just that this “safe” and “nonthinking” comfort is what got us to where we are today. Comfortably numb. a la Pink Floyd.

it took a long time for me to get this detached about those around me. i care and always have. i got involved in local politics a lifetime ago. to watch politicians use the local system, the local county and city arenas, for self promotion has shown me the futility of being “involved.” until enough voters realize how much they are being used, nothing will change. power corrupts, absolutely.

without a media or moneyed interest promoting the “change” we need, we are lone rangers fighting a well entrenched and organized monsters. only by withdrawing support, locally on up will we have any effect on the larger Frankenstein that is America today.

watching the Wall St. bankers furiously paper over the cracks in the Political system today is a sign of how much they control America. from the local politico to the President. bought and paid for. the system will have to fall down and crumble from within.

to fight the system from within only supports the system, and ensures the will to defend it by the Elites. we have to let the system fall apart. like Timothy Leary said in the ’60s, turn on, tune in and drop out.

our system is so much like the Soviet one the Russians had. and eventually the Military drain will crash the system like the Soviet one did. just a matter of time.

we all need to be as self reliant from the System as possible. don’t feed the Monster/Frankenstein if you can. the underground economy is our only way to survive in America today.

Greg

Very clever how you insert “Jews” who sre by all means a dominant elitist demographic, into your array of victims.

DHL

…what else could be motivating the lynch mob out for Bradley Manning and Julian Assange? It must be driven by a desire to a maintain a cloak of “plausible deniability”

Agree.
Always trying to educate my son on the various types of stupidity, which are basically patterns of doing harm onto oneself and others, whithout recognizing or learning.
The other being various types of shortsightedness on the time-axis.

One of the most difficult topics to understand for a sensible person.

One hypothesis I pursue is the fragmented-mind hypothesis.
The opposite being a mind trying to be coherent.

The coherent mind says: Doing should be coherent with talking.
The incoherent mind does not even seem to understand the thesis.

Manning and Assange basically demand openness of information, vital to society.
The incoherent mind does not want to know, because intuitively it knows that this could touch upon their pleasurezones or pet-delusions, which -in Bob Altemeyers sense- are the claviature, on which the authoritarian leaders play.

Therefore e.g. education and logical thinking is one of the natural enemies of the ‘fragmentarians’.
Privatization of education will take care of that.

Or, as the wonderful George Carlin said:
“The american dream… why is it called the american dream?…because You have to asleep to believe in it.”

The media are doing their very best to keep the populace in that state.

On a larger perspective, this is Grand-Canyon sized stupidity.

But what do I say.
Everybody here knows this.
Just trying to say it somewhat differently what basically everybody here is saying.
Learning.

To lubricate the coherency of like minds.

Amen.

It’s not satire.

Yes, it is, you just don’t understand satire. It’s lost on you…..and that’s fine. I should know better than to cast perils before…

It’s creepy and homophobic.

It’s bizarre that you associate prison rape, which is quite common but often left out of polite conversation, with homosexuality and homophobia. That is sick and twisted and once again, it’s an insult to all those who are the victims of it. I am as concerned about it as I am about people losing their Social Security. Who are you to judge my level of concern? No one, that’s who.

Bringing up anal rape is completely off-topic and then claiming that it’s a problem that you are deeply concerned about is absurd.

You bringing up jail was completely off topic….it was a Red Herring….but, once you brought jail, or going to jail, into the mix, it was fair game, and now becomes the topic per your wish, obviously. Now you want to claim it’s off topic. Typical weasel tactic. Jail means prison, and prison, amongst many other ills, includes prison rape….and it’s a natural reaction to fear it.

btw – I didn’t vote for Barack Obama

Glad to hear it. I stand corrected and apologize for falsely accusing you of voting for him. That was wrong of me. I don’t apologize for anything else I have said, though.

You attacked me for merely mentioning that I voted third party.

Not true. Firstly, I didn’t attack you. I merely rendered an opinion about voting in general, and what your motivation may have been for voting. It wasn’t an attack. I can’t help that you took it as an attack. Step back next time and take a few deep breaths before you personalize what’s written. Secondly, I never mentioned third party because you never mentioned voting for a third party…not in the post to which I was referring. My comment was directed at you saying that “voting Republican (Obama) just isn’t something I’m physically capable of doing.”

Oh, and by the way, there are many homosexual men who do not engage in anal penetration, because they are averse to it. Are they homophobes, as well, since anyone who mentions rectum, anal and rape in the same breath must hate homosexuals? Your line of reasoning is bizarre. However, if it makes you feel better to think of me as such, have at it. Far be it from me to convince you otherwise.

As far as I’m concerned, this discussion is over. Nothing constructive is coming from it and it’s a waste of time. You can have the last word. Rip away.

sidenote:

Why is it, that articles like that are written:
“Top Colleges For Getting Rich”
http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/30/college-salary-graduates-lead-cz_kb_0730topcolleges.html

Is this the american dream?
Getting rich?
Which defines the valuable human being, according to Protestant, Evangelical or whatever belief.

And you simply have to pay Your entry-fee to get into the club?
Paying some lip-service to upward-mobility, by issuing grants to gifted havenots, who then are integrated into the system by self-corruption.

How about that old Humboldt ideal, that education in itself –for every human being and society as a whole–is valuable?

There is a positive feedback process at work within a mere 2-3 academic generations, if the incentives are properly chosen.

Harvard etc students going to Wallstreet and other high-paying jobs, because the metric implicates that.

This same logic also buys a President, Senator, Congress member, Chief justice, Corporate executive.

Welcome to the club.

Beautifully thought out, if the aim is to kill a society.

So, where is the error?

Just asking.

Morocco Bama
Not true. Firstly, I didn’t attack you. I merely rendered an opinion about voting in general, and what your motivation may have been for voting. It wasn’t an attack. I can’t help that you took it as an attack. Step back next time and take a few deep breaths before you personalize what’s written. Secondly, I never mentioned third party because you never mentioned voting for a third party…not in the post to which I was referring. My comment was directed at you saying that “voting Republican (Obama) just isn’t something I’m physically capable of doing.”
———————————
Below is the post that you were responding to – where I specifically mentioned voting in regard to a third party. Not only did I mention a third party specifically in regard to my voting – but also in regard to the potential for the rise of a strong third party in this political climate. I think it is a very innocuous post.

Diana Prince PERMALINK
August 4, 2011
This is the perfect time for the rise of a third party. There was a huge difference between Gore and Bush – but that is no longer true. Personally, I won’t vote for the Democrats anymore – either Green Party or Working Families Party. Voting Republican (Obama) just isn’t something I’m physically capable of doing.
————————————-
This is your patronizing reply – which btw is not you merely rendering an opinion about voting in general or my motivations. You were openly mocking me for voting implying that I was pathetic because I just voted to make myself feel better and cling to the illusion that my opinion matters. In case you are unaware – it’s kind of a douchebag thing to say and would piss off most people.
————————————
“Diana, do you not realize that at this point in time, your vote will be used against you in every instance? You can’t vote your way out of this. I know, I know, it makes you feel better……that you’re a part of it, that you have some kind of say. That was/is its intention….the illusion that your opinion matters…..but it is just that, an illusion. If the circumstances are to change, you have to drop the illusions, once and for all.”
—————————-
Since you specifically mentioned that I couldn’t vote my way out of it, I mentioned civil disobedience by saying that I went to jail trying to prevent the Iraq war – thus not a “red herring” or even off-topic. I think it was very obvious that I wasn’t talking about spending time in prison and that it was an arrest for civil disobedience. I mentioned jail – and you associated it with anal rape by saying that you haven’t been to jail because you haven’t had anal sex – which I guess means that anyone who has been in jail has been anally raped? Srsly WTF? I find it hard to believe that is satire because it’s bizarre and adolescent to bring up anal sex just because someone mentions jail. And pointing that out doesn’t mean I’m not aware of how people are abused in prison or that I’m insulting victims. That’s just completely dishonest bullshit.

Re you comments about homosexual men and penetration – again WTF? I never said merely mentioning rectums makes you homophobic – what I was criticizing was your reply which stated that you had never been to jail because you haven’t had anal sex. And that you followup posts were about anal sex/rectums in prison which is not the topic of this thread – or relevant to my post. I don’t think that’s satire or clever at all. I think it’s creepy. Maybe not specifically homophobic – but certainly adolescent. I didn’t associate prison rape with homosexuality – you did, obviously, when you said “I’m still a rectal virgin, so no, I didn’t go to jail”.

ok – I get it. You are a rebel non-voter that the establishment fears. Clearly you are superior to me in every possible way. Maybe you could mention some more authors that you think no one knows about but you – and tell me how I’ve never heard of them. That’s always the sign of someone who isn’t intellectually insecure.

Nader is working to primary Obama in 2012

That’s good news. I hope that his effort can join forces with all of the many other (uncoordinated) efforts that others have started.

While we’re at it, let’s start “primary-ing” Nancy “impeachment is off the table” Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, and the other 93 members of the House that cast “sophisticated” votes for party-loyalty-over-country this past week. (I’m still hoping for the day when something beyond “Obama is the problem/getting rid of Obama is the solution” enters the Welshian universe.)

Regardless of whether anyone is “primaried,” people need to demand change now by talking loudly to congress members directly, in person to reverse the vote made this week. Waiting and hoping for elections (2004, 2006, 2008, 2010…) to bring about change is not working.

Morocco Bama
“We weren’t talking about the local level…we were talking about Presidents, and voting for them. You were the one who said you couldn’t get yourself to vote for Obama as though, once again, that was some red badge of courage, and some form of protest. It’s not.”
—————————————–
Morocco Bama
Also, the homophobic comment is so ridiculously, and typically, “Liberal.” It tells me that you voted for Obama because he was Black….because he would have been the first Black President.
—————————————–
Morocco Bama
btw – I didn’t vote for Barack Obama

Glad to hear it. I stand corrected and apologize for falsely accusing you of voting for him. That was wrong of me.
[…]
My comment was directed at you saying that “voting Republican (Obama) just isn’t something I’m physically capable of doing.”
—————————————–
So it annoys you that I said I couldn’t/wouldn’t vote for Barack Obama – because it doesn’t matter and it’s something I shouldn’t be proud of…

but then deride me as the “typical Liberal” who voted for Obama because he’s black (even after I said that I couldn’t and wouldn’t vote for him because I think he’s a Republican)

and then when I correct again you about your false assumption, you congratulate me for not voting for him.

WTF? So much logic FAIL.

@anon2525 – Roger that Nader’s not running… it’s just depressing that he’s a controversial figure, and I fear that any endorsement from him would be a de facto poison pill.

… it’s just depressing that he’s a controversial figure…

There is a class war going on. How can anyone who is not “controversial” (in corporate media-speak) be of any value? There is some statesman (statesperson?) who can stand for the country? No such person can exist and be saying anything of value. In the current environment, even someone as mild as Elizabeth Warren is labelled as “controversial.”

Far more important is that the person(s) that run speak truths that the democrats and republs are hiding or unwilling to say and to present an alternative that cannot be ignored (meaning that this person(s) will need some money and organization).

@anon2525:

How can anyone who is not “controversial” (in corporate media-speak) be of any value?

Framed in that way, of course I agree. I was speaking of his divisiveness amongst the left, who variously blame him for Florida 2000 and “vanity” presidential campaigns.

I don’t necessarily agree with this, as such a meme serves the status quo only all too well to be completely spontaneous. But it is there, and I think you can easily picture the waste of energy entailed in slogging through that hoary debate.

I’ll share my thoughts on this whole “primary Obama” thing. First, it would be Schadenfreudelicious, to be sure. However, the firepower arrayed against a potential rival to Obama is awesome. I’m with anyone who would like to get on political record as rebuking Obama, win or lose, but events of late make me feel that sending a “message” to – or about – Obama is a waste of time. He knows he’s an ass, and the country is waking up to that fact as well. Also, as a minor point, it could give him a bump as a perceived “victim” with some folks. That, as I said, is a very minor point, however – I wouldn’t let that necessarily stop me.

The other thing that nags me is that I don’t think that there are any solutions to our problems that can be addressed through a “leader,” no matter how charismatic. As a matter of fact, charisma or populism could very well work against real change, whether by attracting a harmful demagogue or by strengthening a system that is so clearly, well, wrong. (I’m speaking of the whole growth-oriented, capitalist enterprise.)

I have a strong suspicion, and this is where my advocacy lies, that a fundamental shift from the hierarchical idea of “leaders,” insulating us from being existentially engaged with the “big questions,” to an acceptance that we cannot avoid being engaged actors within the collective. Of course, as has been oft pointed out, this is a necessary prescription for even our form of republic, but our insistence on “looking up” to representatives seems to be encouraged by the system, and from all levels of society.

That said, none of this is in conflict with the goal of primary-ing the President, or working for third-party, etc., and I would never waste an ounce of energy opposing such efforts, which can be incrementally fruitful after all. It’s just that I can’t throw my personal energy into it.

Looks like we’re pretty much on the same page, anon – thanks for the dialogue.

Nader: “You never know where the spark will come from.”

Apparently, a spark has been lit in Tottenham (north London, I’m told):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/06/tottenham-riots-protesters-police

Headline: “Tottenham in flames as riot follows protest”