The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Hilary Clinton Secretary of State Portrait

Why Hillary Clinton Is the Worst Kind of Leader

Guest Post by Hugh

Hillary Clinton doesn’t just make mistakes, she makes big mistakes, the kind that cost a lot of other people their lives and leave ruin and chaos in her wake. She doubles down on them and persists in them long after virtually everyone else has come to realize that they were mistakes. And then she repeats them.

Clinton voted for the Iraq War. During the next 12 years, her principal criticism of the war was not that it was a mistake but that she could do it better. This is another defining characteristic of the Clinton way of doing things. She doesn’t recognize that mistakes are to be avoided. Her argument, and it is a really strange one, is that she, because of her RECORD and EXPERIENCE, can do these mistakes BETTER. Just contemplate for a moment the sheer cluelessness of someone who thinks it is a plus to argue that they make better mistakes.

And it wasn’t just that. During those 12 years, she angrily attacked, derided, and arrogantly dismissed those who did not agree with the war, you know, the people who got it right. Finally, in June 2014, 12 years (OK, 11 years and 8 months) after her vote for the Iraq AUMF in October 2002, she revised her position on the war in typically legalistic Clintonesque fashion. She did so in a in a well controlled venue, a book with the wildly inappropriate title Hard Choices (since the hard choice was opposing the war) where she couldn’t be cross-examined and for which she got a multi-million dollar advance. With the Clintons, it is always about the benjamins.

Anyway, here is her non-explanatory explanation and non-apology apology:

I thought I had acted in good faith and made the best decision I could with the information I had. And I wasn’t alone in getting it wrong. But I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.

This is like an engineer designing a plane that keeps crashing killing all on board. After years of denying that there was any problem, she comes out and says that her calculations were correct but the numbers she was given were wrong. Oh, and lots of other people made the same mistake.

What Clinton’s statement overlooks, of course, is that that plenty of people pointed out the dangers which she chose to ignore. Instead she slammed and belittled those who tried to avert the Iraq disaster. Nor is there anything about why it took her 12 years to even partially understand the nature of her screw up or long after virtually every other being on the planet with a pulse. Only grifters like the Clintons would then take this monumental, impossibly bad example of self-serving, poor judgment and seek to spin it into the gold cloth of “foreign policy experience” or even more ludicrously a Hard Choice.

What her statement on the Iraq War does illustrate, however, is another Clinton tactic. Issue a statement (in legalese) on one of her many bad decisions and then move on as if the issue has forever been answered and is now irrevocably closed.

I have gone on at some length on this one subject, but have only scratched the surface of just how bad Hillary Clinton is. You can find similar examples with Libya, Syria, the TPP, and the Keystone pipeline, to name a few. Beyond these, there is Hillary Clinton and the abuse of power with her email server. There is the corrupt Hillary Clinton with her speeches to Wall Street and the Clinton Global Initiative. There is the blatantly lying in your face Hillary Clinton paid for by Wall Street who tells the rubes she’s going to fight for them, that she is going to create jobs for them. There is the “I’m so experienced” Hillary Clinton who’s solution to the economy is to turn it over to her grifter husband Bill.

For redemption, there must be both the awareness of error and the desire to atone. Both of these acts are totally alien to Hillary Clinton, and Bill too, for that matter. They are grifters. And the first rule of the con is never to admit the con. The second is to take the money and run. It is in the con, not redemption, that you really see what makes the Clintons tick.


Peter Thiel’s Attack On Gawker Is Not an Abuse of Wealth


“Voltaire’s Bastards” by John Ralston Saul: The Death of Purpose at the Hands of Reason


  1. V. Arnold

    Hillary Clinton is seriously mentally ill; infected with a mental defect so common among U.S. politicians/leaders today (but then they’re not really leaders, are they). It’s as if it is a class unto itself; irrevocably separated from the class they rule/govern. But in fact this class doesn’t govern, but rather it rules, much like monarchies of old.
    This class is in its own reality not even accountable to the laws of the land. My only question is; how much longer will the charade of voting and elections continue?

  2. alyosha

    You haven’t seen “the worst kind of leader” yet. Mere incompetence, and repeating mistakes is far from worse.

    @V Arnold wrote: My only question is; how much longer will the charade of voting and elections continue?

    “The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

    – Frank Zappa

  3. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Shorter Hugh: “Nach Drumpf, uns.”

    How did that strategy work out for its original users?

  4. V. Arnold

    May 28, 2016

    Ah, Frank Zappa, a veritable god among men; too soon gone; great quote, thanks.

  5. Michael Carano

    When the lesser evil is so blatantly evil, one can no longer avoid the stink by holding one’s nose.

  6. highrpm

    wash dc is heavily populated by these crazy alpha personalities who’ll not stop at anything to get to the top of the heap of their chosen collective, even for the tiniest click of a moment in time until they lose it to another crazy. i’ll give trump a bit more space as he uncharacteristically, for an alpha type, shows remarkable empathy — as in his consistent calling out the disaster that the iraq war was both in terms of colossal waste of money and loss of innocent civilians, which hillacious cannot do as her mental illness prevents her.

    our public school system is a success in that it pushes 13th graders out the door with little practical knowledge of making their way in the adult world, except for doing sex with no inkling of responsibility for the possible outcome of providing for a child. just irrational indiscriminate oxytocin driven madness. clueless about even the broadly accepted 5 categories of personality. and then the well known effects of psychological trauma that the chronically abused suffer, personality disorders being primary. and hillacious suffers multiple pd’s: her clinical narcissism makes her an operative liar, cheat, disrespector of all rule of law for the commons that makes a society work and her inability to say, “i’m sorry.” validates the simplest assessment of sociopathy/ psychopathy.

    the high school’er/ hollywood’er/ t.v.’er simpletons who push her over the top to win in november deserve the resulting nuclear war conflagration that hillacious will wring on all the world.

    at least trump, despite/ inspite sheldon addledson’s attempt to entangle trump in sheldon’s leviathan grasp of the gop $$$ owernship, still has the guts to publicly call out zionist losers like billy boy kristol as he did the other day in california.

  7. V. Arnold

    I might add that the picture of Killary at the heading of this post is hideous…

  8. Seas of Promethium

    “Better a zero, than a Nero” was the justification for rallying behind the miserable centrist favorite Hindenburg in order to keep Hitler from winning the Presidency.

    Guess how that worked out.

  9. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    Hindenburg appointed Hitler as chancellor. The U. S. system would not allow HRC to choose Trump as her second-in-command and actual chief executive, even if she wanted to do that.

    But thanks for playing, and please accept these lovely parting gifts.

  10. EmilianoZ

    she comes out and says that her calculations were correct but the numbers she was given were wrong

    Thats actually not an unreasonable defense. Even the most powerful computer will get it wrong if you feed it wrong data. As they say: “garbage in, garbage out”. Only a magician can turn mud into gold.

    Here she’s probably alluding to the infamous “weapons of mass destruction”. Its astonishing that the CIA was allowed to get away with this.

  11. Seas of Promethium

    I must say I’m a bit surprised that this wasn’t used as the page photo.

  12. SnarkyShark

    IBW..that’s some mighty dry ass sarcasm you did there. Mad respect bro.

  13. Seas of Promethium

    The U. S. system would not allow HRC to choose Trump as her second-in-command and actual chief executive, even if she wanted to do that.

    “Cold fusion reactors can work! Think of how scientists said that bumblebees couldn’t fly!”

    “Actually, that calculation was specific to a fixed-wing aircraft, and was in fact intended to show how–”

    “Are you trying to tell me that nuclear reactors have wings?! Dumbass.”

  14. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    I cheerfully admit I can’t figure out what Element 61 is ranting about on that last post.

  15. Mel

    “I thought I had acted in good faith and made the best decision I could with the information I had. And I wasn’t alone in getting it wrong. But I still got it wrong. Plain and simple.”

    The amusing thing about that explanation is that the counterfactual bits relate to her own state of mind.

    She thought she had acted in good faith, but in fact she had acted in bad faith. She had cheated.

    She though she had made the best decision she could, but she had actually made a worse decision than she could.

    These are supposed to excuse something?

  16. Seas of Promethium

    I wasn’t trying to set out a counter-analogy; I was pointing out that “sensible centrists” had no small role in the fall of Weimar, contrary to the widespread supposition you invoked with your original quip.

    But let’s assume for the sake of the argument that I was–were you really trying to make such a ridiculously precise analogy yourself up there? Just who are you casting as the German Communist Party representatives in the Reichstag then?

  17. Bella Venturi

    Hillary can’t admit failure because the US can’t admit failure. Psychopathy on her part has little to do with *that*.

  18. Hugh

    I have often written that the essential weapon of class war is distraction. Lesser evilism is an example. You see once we move from the realm of deciding which candidate is better than the other to which is not as bad as the other we have fallen off the edges of the map. As the saying goes, “Here be monsters.” Or as I like to call them, shit sandwiches. We are being served up in Clinton and Trump two monstrous shit sandwiches. The partisans and trolls for them want to yell and point out the big shit sandwich in the other guy’s hand. Why? because if they can get us talking about that shit sandwich they don’t have to explain the one they are holding –and wanting to shove down our throats.

    The one thing you will not find either side willing to talk about is why the only thing they have to offer us is shit. Here is a real simple idea. If you want my vote, don’t offer me shit. Don’t try to BS me with making the perfect the enemy of the good. I’m not after perfection. I just won’t vote for shit.

  19. VietnamVet

    Hillary Clinton is the status quo candidate. She will make the system work better. Except, it is not working except for her, Bill and their partners. For the heartland the status quo is silence and death.

  20. Synoia

    Hillary Clinton and the abuse of power with her email server.

    Another mistake, and refused to ask or take advice on the matter.

    Incredibly bad judgement. Such an action makes her unsuitable for employment in any enterprise, let alone the most senior position.

  21. mc

    Years of lesser evilism have gotten us to this. Dismemberment by chain-saw or scalpel. Dinner with Freddy Kruger or Hannibal Lecter. Flying off a high mountain road outside Flagstaff at 500 mph or 400 mph. In each case, the former is louder, messier, and less discriminating, the latter quieter, neater, and more precise. In both cases, the end result is the same, just with differences in clean-up. We’ve heard for decades now about how voting for so-and-so meant EEEVVVILLLLL, so vote for evvilll or we’ll end up with X. And a few years later, we’ve got X, so it’s the same mantra or we’ll end up with Y. Rinse and repeat. Now we’re here, with the “lesser evil” proclaimed to be someone who makes Richard Nixon and John Mitchell look saint-like (you can pick whichever you choose for the “lesser,” the point still holds). Do we take it slower or quicker? That continues to be all the choice being offered. Or do we just say, fine, whichever, just don’t count me as one of the enablers anymore? The handbasket is about at its destination either way and it doesn’t need our help now.

  22. Remind who Ian supported?

  23. Hugh

    Re Clinton’s not getting the calculation right on the Iraq war vote, as I noted in comments a couple of posts ago, this is smoke. A lot of people got the “calculation” right. In the House of Representatives, a majority of Democrats 126-81 voted against the AUMF. In the Senate, 21 Democrats (out of 50), one independent (Jeffords of VT), and one Republican (Chaffee of RI) did.

    The Senate at the time of the vote in October 2002 was controlled by the Democrats, and the Republicans had only a slim majority in the House. It was also an election year, but Clinton was not up for re-election for another 4 years. Most votes don’t tell you where someone really stands on an issue. Representatives and Senators routinely vote for a bill they know is going to fail or against a bill they know is going to pass. A vote where theirs is the make or break vote on an important bill may never come up in their entire career. But there are others, and the Iraq AUMF vote is an example. In the House, it took courage to vote against the war in an election year. There were real costs associated with a no vote. In the Senate, outside of Chaffee, not so much. As I said, the Senate had a Democratic majority 51-49, after Jeffords a Republican went independent and started caucasing with the Democrats. There the indicator was who would vote for the war when they didn’t have to. Clinton was one of these. She voted for the war because she supported the war, and even though her vote undercut the more exposed Democrats in the House. What does it say of someone that in the matter of a war that cost thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars, it takes them 12 years and all they can come up with is that they made a technical error, and oh yes, many others, ignoring all those who did not, made the same error.

    I should say that I supported the Iraq war at the time. It was a defining event for me. I was brought up believing that there were adults in the government who knew what they were doing. The Iraq war saw the unravelling of that belief. It brought me to the internet and set me on the path to where I am now. My reaction to Colin Powell’s presentation of the evidence for Iraqi WMD was one of shock. I could not believe how flimsy the case was. I thought well they mean to have a war, at least they have competent generals to fight it. And then I saw the kick ass and bypass strategy which left huge arms dumps unguarded and open for anyone to cart off whatever they wanted. By the time of Bremer’s Provisional Authority, I was no longer surprised. I knew there were no adults in the room, only clowns. The thing is that what I was unlearning was probably something Hillary Clinton knew or should have known all along. The business of elites is to know this stuff. It is why and how they justify their privileges. So if I with no resources to speak of could realize this, why couldn’t she? She knew these guys were clowns would couldn’t organize a two car parade and yet she went along with them anyway, and stayed with them for 12 years.

    I have to say that the Iraq war was not the only wake up call I had or the only time I realized that we were ruled by clowns, –evil criminal clowns. It’s more of a recurring pattern. I had a similar experience with the Democratic party leading me to reject Obama in July 2008 and the party in early 2009. And one on the economy and economics beginning in 2007 and still ongoing. I remember reading Ian’s posts at FDL, a bowl of popcorn at my side, watching the slow and inevitable march of the financial system to meltdown. The depression following the meltdown got me into doing my own economic research. It also got me looking at economic theory. The first made me realize how poor the economic data were and how even at the best of times they did not mean what I/we thought they meant. The second made me realize what a lot of garbage economic theory was.

  24. Ivory Bill Woodpecker

    @Element 61: Oh let’s see–for an analogy to the German Commies, how about all the Lefter-than-thou Purity Caucus shriekers who natter on and on about how the choice between the Democratic Party, with its responsible adult presidential candidate, and the Bat-Guano Crazy Pachyderm Party, with its tribble-haired Fascist presidential candidate, is no more than a choice between two–I believe “shit sandwiches” is the fashionable term of art?

    Quite all right, little boys. The women will decide this election.

  25. Hugh

    Stirling, Ian likes Bernie. Sanders is the only candidate who has positives, not negatives, for us to focus on. It doesn’t change the fact that his candidacy morphed from the last hurrah of an old, sort of progressive politician into something more substantial, if not really a movement. As such, I don’t know what his endgame is. Will he stay true to his followers or will he cut a deal with the Democratic Establishmemt? It’s pretty much an either/or. For myself, I might vote for him if he ran as an independent. I will not vote for him as a Democrat.

  26. Hugh

    I seem to be in a writing mood tonight. Clinton’s inner circle of toadies and consultants appear to be smoking some evil weed. Sanders kept them from pivoting right as quickly as they wanted to, but the whole idea that Hillary Clinton could conceivably appeal to moderate (read corporatist) Republicans was delusional. First, there aren’t that many of them, and second, they are already falling in line behind Trump. They have no clue how much independents hate her. A lot of Sanders’ supporters don’t like her either.

    It is actually kind of funny to watch Clinton surrogates, the Queen herself can’t be bothered, talk about party unity. A week or so ago I saw Steve Israel, a rep from New York, talking up party unity. As always, the first thing the Clinton people do is call Sanders’ supporters stupid. Israel started off with “Sanders’ supporters forget they we already introduced a bill to do X, but the mean ole Republicans shot it down.” As a progressive, if not Sanders’ supporter, I would reply that yes, I remember quite well what the Democrats haven’t accomplished. Israel to me at least looks a lot like Anderson Cooper and he was in a super sharp tailored suit. My question to him and really any of the Clinton clique is this: Show me your blood on the floor. All I ever hear is how the Democrats have been fighting for me. Well, I want to see the evidence. I want to see the blood on the floor. Because I’m not seeing it, and haven’t seen it for years. What I have seen is multi-million dollar galas with the Clooneys and speeches at $225,000-$335,000 a pop. I’ve seen a lot of green on the table but I have yet to see one drop of blood on the floor.

  27. V. Arnold

    @ Hugh
    May 28, 2016

    I should say that I supported the Iraq war at the time. It was a defining event for me. I was brought up believing that there were adults in the government who knew what they were doing.

    Very interesting; it was a defining moment for me as well. I self exiled 8 weeks after March 19, 2003. Having come up through the Vietnam butchery, it was more than I could bear.
    Interesting turn of phrase, “adults”; of course they are adults; sick, twisted, psychopathic adults. That was once an effective device, but no longer; over used to death.
    To this very day I know I did the right thing, because almost every day it’s reaffirmed by the actions of an outlaw government sitting in Washington DC at the largess of a complicit population.

  28. Ian Welsh

    I preferred Clinton over Obama in 08. I thought she would purge the civil service of Bushians and was slightly better domestically and I thought Obama was less to her right on foreign affairs than commonly believed. Him making her his SOS partially confirmed that.

    Clinton’s sojourn as SOS proved that she wasn’t just pandering/playing it safe in her Iraq war vote. That information was not available in 08.

    That said, if I were to do it all over, I doubt I’d support anyone after Edwards was out.

    This year, if it is Clinton/Trump I highly doubt I will support either.

  29. Another Anon

    Hugh and V. Arnold, greetings from another member
    of the class of 2003.

  30. V. Arnold

    Another Anon
    May 28, 2016

    The class of ’03; indeed, never thought of it like that.
    Unfortunately not a large graduating class…

  31. V. Arnold

    And then there is Hillary’s Russophobia and the looming WWIII she’ll help along.
    This very comprehensive article by the Saker is a must read, IMO.

  32. EmilianoZ

    Class of ’03.

    You guys are precocious. I didnt have a defining moment until the financial meltdown. I guess that makes me class of ’08. You guys had 5 more years to educate yourselves. I guess thats why I read you.

    I’ll never forget ’08. It was as if for a few moments the Matrix had stopped working and you could see the real thing. And then, of course, Obama came along and rebooted the Matrix.

    In ’03 I was still mainstream, reading The Economist and all that crap. I regret every cent I spent on that garbage. That’s scandalous, propaganda should be free.

    What I find astonishing is that despite ’03, despite ’08, a lot of people (most?) are still mainstream. I’ve noticed that you have to do the transition by yourself. I’ve never been able to convince any mainstream person to cross to the other side. To them we’re just conspiracy theorists or old-fashioned hardcore leftists. I guess most people are just hardwired to follow the mainstream.

  33. V. Arnold

    May 29, 2016
    Class of ’03.
    You guys are precocious. I didnt have a defining moment until the financial meltdown. I guess that makes me class of ’08. You guys had 5 more years to educate yourselves. I guess thats why I read you.
    What I find astonishing is that despite ’03, despite ’08, a lot of people (most?) are still mainstream. I’ve noticed that you have to do the transition by yourself. I’ve never been able to convince any mainstream person to cross to the other side.

    We are astonishingly, deeply, and thoroughly brain-washed. Everything we think we know is crap; everything we have been taught is crap. Forced education was the beginning of the end of free thinking individuals.
    You are correct regarding transition; it must be an individual act.
    I knew long before I left, the futility trying to convince anybody of anything.
    I left with $400 to my name at the age of 58; best damn thing I ever did.
    Seems you understand far more than most USians.

  34. highrpm


    irrelevant prophecies: deep down, bernie is a collectivist/ party man. he’ll make a deal with the queen for party’s sake. i wish it were otherwise. i hope my intuition’s wrong.

    @v. arnold,
    i’m class of 2012. i left at 62 with $60k, all my inheritance. 6 months later i returned with $30k. how the hell does one blow $30K in 6 months, renting a room for $500/mo and doing nothing but walking/bicycling the streets of ventura, ca? i don’t know, and still don’t. i still hate $. though i pay more attention to my account credit/ debit columns.

    psychic imprinting through childhood hypnosis by mindlessly accepting what our authority figures feed us is powerful stuff. as george lakoff writes about beliefs, their grip can be tenacious. my strong personal feeling/ self-image of misfitness sensitized me to cognitive dissonance of those in authority. my upbringing held christ had [all] the answers. finally, at 62, i threw in the towel. no “he” didn’t. it was all ancient myth. church leadership used the same tool that the leaders of this nation use to hold power, fear.

    the power of imprinting? i’m the only one of 7 siblings to rethink childhood beliefs. dad was an arch fdr hater and died-in-wool repub. this time? thanks to the corporate media who my sib’s faithfully feed from, believing them truthful deliverer’s of the daily news. they hate trump. they maintain agreeable silence on hillary. i doubt they’ll vote this year.

    i prepping for a round 2 attempt at independence. this time with only $400.

  35. V. Arnold

    May 29, 2016
    6 months later i returned with $30k. how the hell does one blow $30K in 6 months, renting a room for $500/mo and doing nothing but walking/bicycling the streets of ventura, ca?
    I’m a bit confused by your post; you left? From where? To Ventura, California?
    As to your question; only you can answer that.
    To be fair; I left the U.S. for a S.E. Asian country with a job there. I lost my job after a year, telling the owner of the company, to find another lacky for the job. He was an abusive asshole!
    Typical ugly American, as many of the workers told me.
    Being a native speaker of English, a teaching job was easy to find; so I did that for 5 years.
    I landed in a very lucky situation and I never forget that; so, if you decide to leave the U.S. do your due diligence on cost of living.
    Language is a critical tool for understanding culture; language is the key to understanding.
    I’m in a rural area of Thailand (western/central) and know enough Thai to travel solo.
    Your $500 a month rent was shocking; here it’s from $60 – $150 for a decent place. You want luxury; then maybe $3oo/month.
    Another major point; have no, as in zero, debt, period.
    That’s all I’ve got; happy trails…

  36. Jill

    Well argued.

    Here’s the really bad thing. All the major party candidates are terrible leaders. I’ll just mention that Sanders is for the presidential right of king’s to kill anyone, anywhere on his or her say so. If you value the rule of law and justice I simply do not understand thinking of Bernie as a good candidate.

    Of the three, Clinton would be the best choice, followed by Trump. That is because many, many people understand these are truly bad people and they will try to oppose them and their policies. Bernie would be the best establishment choice for the same reason Obama is. He will get away with many, many things the other two would never be able to do without opposition. I can guarantee you that Romney and McCain would never have gotten so far as Obama in the destruction of our Constitution, building the police state and pressing permanent war along with increasing mass surveillance.

    While I would prefer that our citizens go for broke and quit voting for any legacy party and I further hope people will realize that we aren’t just citizens who vote but are citizens can who act for a common good–if these things won’t happen, the least effective evil is Clinton.

    Saying this is not negating any of the correct criticism Ian made, nor does it minimize the devastation she will cause in the world.

  37. Bella Venturi

    Here’s some of what’s in the offing for Hillary’s administration:

    RT: ‘Extend American power’: Foreign policy establishment doubles down.
    (From the ever-so-familiar-sounding Center For a New American Security’s “20-page pamphlet” Extending American Power [PDF])

    Via Cafe Babylon: Next Gen Amerikans Must Embrace US Hegemony as Vital to Global Peace!

    From the first comment:

    If Reagan rolled into office with a Heritage Foundation blueprint and W rolled into office with a Project for a New American Century (PNAC) blueprint, looking at who’s involved at the board of directors level, Hillary Clinton will be rolling into office with this blueprint.

    Jennifer Rubin WaPo Op-Ed, May 18: Without Obama or Trump, we can have sensible, bipartisan foreign policy

    Bill Clinton (“oddly” echoing CNAS sentiments…) says, however, that it’s all about kumbayah:

    “It’s very important that the next president be strong enough in international relations,” Clinton said. “You know, keep us safe, but also: Give us the space we need to keep growing (economically). Because if we get stronger, it’ll drag the right world in the right direction, and a lot of these tensions will go down.”


    “If you think we can live together and grow together so we all rise together, you should be for her,” Clinton said.

    “If you don’t think that’s true, and that we all have to fight over a dividing pie, with walls, you shouldn’t. And that’s really the decision people are gonna have to make.”

    War is Peace!

  38. V. Arnold

    May 29, 2016
    if these things won’t happen, the least effective evil is Clinton.
    You are obviously insane with that declaration.
    Please go away and haunt another blog…

  39. Jill

    V. Arnold,

    You need to prove your point. Show me how you disagree with me and why. Explain your own argument.

    I might just as well say you are a tomato head. That would be as meaningful as what you wrote! So unless you can show me why you think my argument is wrong, please just skip what I wrote. Name calling has no place among people who want a real discussion.

  40. Hugh

    Jill, John Lennon wrote that “Life is what happens while you are making other plans.” That’s the way I look at the Sanders’ candidacy. It started one way and became something else. He still has space to remain authentic and stand with his supporters, although his record has been of folding when the rubber hits the road.

    My point was that there is a lot of positive in Sanders’ platform while there is almost none in Clinton and Trump’s. We all have our bright lines. Yours is his position on drones. Mine is that he is running as a Democrat.

  41. Jill


    First, I apologize for mistakenly thinking Ian had written this instead of you. Good work!

    I don’t think Sanders really changed. He has been part of the war machine and pro executive drone power before he ran for president. Aside from the horrific nature of drone kills (9 civilians to every supposed terrorist), there is something that people aren’t paying attention to with that support for Sanders. Drone assassination is against US law.

    For me, if we want to get anywhere close to justice, we have to draw the line at voting for any candidate who is all for breaking down the rule of law. Clinton is breaking the rule of law with her e-mails. This is not different than Cheney’s energy task force. It is not different from Obama and it is not different from Sanders (nor is Trump’s willingness to engage in torture different). Each person is willing to commit crimes against US and international law. They will get away with it most likely. The only chance we have is enough of our population disallowing that criminality.

  42. Ken Hoop


    “Here she’s probably alluding to the infamous “weapons of mass destruction”. Its astonishing that the CIA was allowed to get away with this.”

    Check also Wolfowitz, Perle, “Office of Special Plans.”

  43. V. Arnold

    May 29, 2016

    IMO, HC is the epitome of political evil; “We came, we saw, he died. ha, ha, ha”
    IMO, that is just sick.
    Then there are her constant lies and refusal to accept responsibility for her extremely bad judgement (Iraq is a glaring example) and, more recently Libya; and almost all policies of governance. And then she is owned by Wallstreet; so the chances of genuine reform are about zero.
    Least evil? Why the hell would one (you) accept (knowingly) any evil from your rulers? Yes, rulers; we are no longer governed and haven’t been for some time.
    Last and far from least; HC has done everything possible to ensure her coronation come November. She is proven corrupt to the core.

  44. V. Arnold

    A very interesting interview with Amber A’Lee Frost by Chuck Mertz of This is Hell;

  45. V. Arnold

    Addendum; the link is the whole 4 hour program so, Amber Frost’s interview is in the last hour, so you can jump ahead to that interview. She has some great critiques of HC.

  46. Carmel

    Bella, thank you for posting that fascinating article on the emails and a possible Clinton indictment. My, how the plot thickens!

    I detest Hillary and if faced with a choice of her and Trump in the general, I will either vote third party (which is what I usually do anyway) or cast a protest vote for Trump.

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