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Is it possible to be stupider than Gloria Feldt, Former Head of Planned Parenthood?

2012 January 26
by Ian Welsh

Ms. Feldt:

Where have you been these last three years, Mr. President? Welcome back.

He was doing what he believed in.  Now it’s an election year, and he’s pandering.  You, Ms. Feldt, are exactly why women are losing their abortion rights.  With leaders like you and Obama who needs enemies?

(h/t Americablog)

178 Responses
  1. groo permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Yeah.

    And the old Lady, whom I tried to help at LA airport carrying her heavy baggage.
    She was so embarrassed that she called the police.
    This was in the late Seventies.

    Did it get better since then?

    Obviously not.

    Silly Europen me, who had a conception of helping then, but the US mind translated this into a conception of exploitation and mistrust.

    ‘Help’ translated into something other: Exploitation per definition.
    As said.
    Very disturbing.

  2. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Texas, as much as any state in the union, is heavily influenced by German culture. Interesting, considering Texas’ unique flavor of punishment.

    http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/png02

    The largest ethnic group in Texas derived directly from Europe was persons of German birth or descent. As early as 1850, they constituted more than 5 percent of the total Texas population, a proportion that remained constant through the remainder of the nineteenth century. Intermarriage has blurred ethnic lines, but the 1990 United States census revealed that 1,175,888 Texans claimed pure and 1,775,838 partial German ancestry, for a total of 2,951,726, or 17½ percent of the total population.

  3. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 4, 2012

    groo
    February 4, 2012
    Celsius 233,
    well done, well said.
    It is quite some time ago, when I visited the US of A, and did not understand.
    The guy in the Greyhound from Oregon to California, whose family has been murdered in Detroit.
    The black guy in SF, who tried to sell me some drugs, and I said “no, boy”, not realizing what an offense that was.
    He followed me up for quite a distance.
    The immigration guys, who checked me, longhaired Me then, when I was on the way to NASA and NOAA.
    Long gone.
    What a disgusting folk!
    Never will go there again!
    ____________________

    We all get caught up in our beliefs/dogmas/politics, and ignorance.
    I hope I never have to go back also; but that thought is rooted more in the government and their fascist behavior than any fear of my fellow Americans. The one thing I’ve learned is that people are pretty much the same the world over. That may be a cliche’, but it can’t belie the truth of that experience.
    On the other hand; I do indeed condemn them (my fellow Americans) for their sloth, greed, and ignorance of the very world and body politic around them.
    It can only come out right if the veil of Maya is torn with insight and knowledge.
    There are far too many dark corners in the America of today and in this, democracy is smothered.
    In any event; the great ship plows through the moonless night without a captain…
    And we have what you see…

  4. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 4, 2012

    And what about the Evangelicals and the Mormons…well, a good argument can be made that the seeds of these manifestations can be found to have been nurtured in the putrid soil of the great German reformer himself, Martin Luther.

    http://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Lutherans/truth_about_martin_luther.htm

    “Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides… No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.” (‘Let Your Sins Be Strong, from ‘The Wittenberg Project;’ ‘The Wartburg Segment’, translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther’s
    Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521).

    Luther is actually saying that our actions — even the most sinful actions imaginable — don’t matter! He is saying we can commit any sin we want — willfully, presumptuously, purposefully — and we will not offend God! After all, we require nothing more than “faith” to be saved. What we do is incidental.

    “Those pious souls who do good to gain the Kingdom of Heaven not only will never succeed, but they must even be reckoned among the impious; and it is more important to guard them against good works than against sin.” (Wittenberg, VI, 160, quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 122.)

    You must be thinking, “What? Could he possibly have written what I thought I just read? ‘It is more important to guard them against good works than against sin.'” Well okay, read it again, just to make sure. We’ll wait.

    See? You were right the first time. Luther cautions us against good and upright actions. He says, don’t worry about sin — Jesus will take care of it. But doing good — that you’d better watch out for. Especially if you think being kind and generous and loving will affect your outcome at the final judgment.

    “Like the mules who will not move unless you perpetually whip them with rods, so the civil powers must drive the common people, whip, choke, hang, burn, behead and torture them, that they may learn to fear the powers that be.” (El. ed. 15, 276, quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 235.)

    “A peasant is a hog, for when a hog is slaughtered it is dead, and in the same way the peasant does not think about the next life, for otherwise he would behave very differently.” (‘Schlaginhaufen,’ ‘Aufzeichnungen,’ p. 118, quoted ibid., p. 241)

    Consider all those conservative white Texans of Germanic origin, with their flaky Lutherian belief/value system, and their approach to Mexican immigration, and their treatment of the Hispanic serfs.

    Of course, the best has been saved for last since someone mentioned the Mormons and their embrace of polygamy.

    “I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter.” (De Wette II, 459, ibid., pp. 329-330.)

  5. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Consider all those conservative white Texans of Germanic origin, with their flaky Lutherian belief/value system, and their approach to Mexican immigration, and their treatment of the Hispanic serfs.
    _______________________

    My, my; did you even read what you wrote in your last two posts?

  6. groo permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Morocco Bama,
    in no way I endorse Luther.

    He was just a reaction to a deeply corrupted Catholic regime.

    Just lately I found out about the Cathars, and their destruction by the church.
    Inquisition started as a tool to destroy the Cathars.
    I plan to visit the region this year.
    It is heartbreaking.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
    What force is it exactly, which repeatedly destroys the flowering of a better humanity?
    ——-
    Celsius.

    Ofcourse you are right, and I am embarrassed by that.
    History is a mess.
    And mankind.
    I am trying to spot the evildoers.
    Not everyone is.

  7. groo permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Celsius again,

    …We all get caught up in our beliefs/dogmas/politics, and ignorance. …

    Right.
    A lot of folk can be persuaded to kill other folk, utterly despicable.
    On what measure?
    This goes a long way back beyond Aristoteles, who made the big mistake -ahem- ‘educating’ Alexander the Great.
    Difficult.
    Why did such a great mind do that?

    It is ‘belief’, we hopefully thinking folk have to adjust.
    Right and wrong, not good and evil.
    In a decent manner, not an authoritarian one.

    Low key. Long term.
    No sudden victory.
    Water against stone.

    Eventually killing oneself, it seems.

    For what end?

    Frustrating.

    Upon rereading what ‘i’ just wrote: probably ununderstable.
    Am used to that.
    Anyway.

    Talking to the wind.
    Out that.

  8. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Groo, my last “my, my” comment was at MB; not you. Cheers…

  9. February 4, 2012

    Consider all those conservative white Texans of Germanic origin, with their flaky Lutherian belief/value system, and their approach to Mexican immigration, and their treatment of the Hispanic serfs.

    ************************************************************
    Does the writer know anything about Texas or Germany. Most of those Germans, at least in south Texas and the Hill Country, were Catholics, not Lutherans. Along with quite a few Czechs and Poles, that is why real San Antonians do not have southern accents, and whey you find so many white Catholics in San Antonio, which is rarely the case in north or east Texas, and very few places in the south in general.
    As for Lutherans, at least in Texas, they would be some of the least flaky protestants (Baptist, Church of Christ and Southern Methodist seem to be the most common and most conservative, plus all of the megachurches run by individual preachers with denominational affiliations that are not readily apparent). And I can’t say I know of ever meeting a Texas Lutheran, although there are a few colleges and the rare church sighting while driving around. Protestants in America, and especially in the South have very little allegiance to their forebearers’ churches, as long as they are Protestant, and since most come from mixed ethnic backgrounds how would they choose which ethnic allegiance to keep?
    As for Texas Hispanics, they are not especially loyal to the Catholic church and often join evangelical protestant churches as well.
    Why do I bother. Just another typical Morocco Bama statement based on half baked generalities he applies over broadly.

  10. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Thanks, guest, for proving my point. The point is I don’t believe anything I posted in the last two posts. The point is that there is no “American Mind” any more than there is a “German Mind.” The point is, groo was stereotyping, but I noticed you didn’t point that out, did you guest? That’s why I did with a ludicrous stereotyping of my own. Why didn’t you point out groo’s stereotyping? Are you afraid? Do you agree with groo’s assessment of “America?” Do you agree it’s a dangerous place where people try to sell you drugs and people call the police when you try to help? groo points out the evangelicals, the mormons and a poll and claims that everyone posting here that is a U.S. citizen is that when he says “YOU Americans.” He made sure to capitalize it for emphasis. So, I turn it back on you, guest. I don’t know why I bother when those of your ilk are too dense to get it, and so pathetically spineless as to not take a stand when someone makes bigoted remarks like groo did.

  11. groo permalink
    February 4, 2012

    Morocco Bama,

    yes I’m stereotyping to a degree.
    You know, I am bearing a collective guilt for something which has been done before I was even born.
    I can distance myself, which I do, but nevertheless…
    -We all do here-
    But then what are we?
    Human beings.
    I can distance myself.
    But then what am I?
    A living being.
    I can distance myself.
    But then what am I?
    On it goes.

  12. Formerly T-Bear permalink
    February 5, 2012

    @ groo comment 20884

    Now distant cousins were compatriots of yours, she of the first women to sit on a city council in Germany, her husband a medical Dr. who treated a seriously famous person of the war years. They lived in a large southern German city having a famous cathedral to the west of Munich. Your angst is real, there are no easy answers, and my responses to you here were based upon my experiences which you can find here:
    http://www.ianwelsh.net/yes-the-american-people-are-responsible/#comment-20509
    and here:
    http://www.ianwelsh.net/ron-paul-hysteria/#comment-20559
    and there is another one even earlier which I haven’t found, saying in effect that the sins of the fathers are not the sins of the sons, not those sons who gained control of their being after the fact. That one came from the wisdom of a youngster from Bitburg many years ago. That comment was also addressed to you here at Ian’s place.

    Like Celsius 233, expatriated from the nowadays “homeland” is also my story. There are no voices that speak for me from that country, nor is it likely there will ever be. Repudiation of those rude voices pretending to speak with such authority should be automatically assumed; they are voices of ignorance and fools, their words given appropriate weight, you will find no pearls hidden in their garbage.

  13. groo permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Formerly T-Bear,

    thank You for reminding me.
    Will look for Gombrich’s book.

    PS: Appreciate Your elegant writing style.

  14. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    I can distance myself.
    But then what am I?
    On it goes.

    But you are distancing yourself by saying “YOU Americans” to all of U.S. citizens who post here who stand up against us in any way we know how without running away and pretending we’ve disowned our country of origin, but yet checking its vitals everyday to test whether it still lives.

    I stand by what I said. We’re all in this together. Global Capital, that which is largely responsible for creating a global environment of destructive collective behavior, no know bounds such as nation-states….instead, it uses nation-states as foils and arbitrage devices.

    Also, your characterization of “America” is anecdotal, and certainly not my experience. America is many things wrapped all into one. America is like a carnival with its joy rides, its bearded ladies, the snake man, the strong man, the soothsayer…..and the carny barker. There is no singular American Mind, and I don’t believe there is a singular German Mind.

    And the guilt you feel for the Nazi atrocities……you need to move past it, or understand it further. How could you be guilty, or made to feel guilty for something that was committed prior to your birth? You can’t be held to account for that, nor should you, just as I shouldn’t be held to account for slavery as a third generation immigrant to the U.S. Yes, you can feel empathy and sympathy, but guilt serves no constructive purpose.

  15. groo permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Morocco Bama,

    You pose some very difficult questions, and I try my best.

    The way I feel, is actually through my father.
    I won’t tell you about his role during WWII, because I don’t know.
    It was not a good one. This I got. I never asked. But somehow it was in the air.
    But I am his son. And my son is my son, and I have to tell him, and inasmuch I tell him, and do to him, he is my son.
    Right?
    The individualistic take is, that everybody is the smith of his own fate.
    Which is, well, wrong, for a lot of reasons.
    It took me some time to accept the burden of the past, which I cannot influence, and am sort of entitled to get rid of, as a late-born, into a blank slate, so to say.
    This is not.
    I do not endorse Jewish belief, that time is a flat space, where everything is ever-present, but remembering and forgetting and forgiving are in a delicate balance.

  16. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    groo, speaking of Texas, and Texas Justice, I think you would appreciate this excellent documentary from Errol Morris with the score by Philip Glass called The Thin Blue Line. I highly recommend it to anyone who has not seen it. It really hits homes with me since I lived on Inwood Rd. and attended school on Inwood Rd.

    http://mubi.com/films/the-thin-blue-line

    Also, I suggest this book from Dave McGowan (Programmed to Kill) where, in part, he covers Dubya as Governor of Texas and George Lee Lucas. It will leave you scratching your head and realizing that nothing is what it seems and the answers for which we all are searching are very deep….perhaps too deep.

    http://www.konformist.com/2000/henry.htm

    On June 30th of 1998, Henry Lee Lucas, arguably the most prolific and certainly one of the most sadistic serial killers in the annals of crime was scheduled for execution by the state of Texas. Given the advocacy of the death penalty by Governor George W. Bush, things clearly weren’t looking good for Henry at that time.

    Bush had not granted clemency to any condemned man in his tenure as governor. In fact, no governor of any state in the entire history of the country has carried out more judicial executions than has Governor George. At last count, the state of Texas had dispatched 130 inmates on Bush’s watch.

    So Texas was definitely not the place to be for a man in Henry’s position. And considering the nature of Henry’s crimes, it seemed a certainty that nothing would stand in the way of Henry’s scheduled execution. There weren’t likely to be any high-profile supporters, a la Karla Faye Tucker (though even personal appeals to Bush from the likes of Pat Robertson failed to dissuade the governor from proceeding on schedule with Miss Tucker’s execution). Not likely because Henry’s crimes were of a particularly brutal nature, involving rape, torture, mutilation, dismemberment, necrophilia, cannibalism, and pedophilia, with the number of victims running as high as 300-600 by some accounts – including Henry’s own, at times – though this figure is likely inflated.

    By all accounts though, Lucas, frequently working with partner Ottis Toole – a self described arsonist and cannibal – savagely murdered literally scores of victims of all ages, races, and genders. All indications were then that this was pretty much of a no-brainer for America’s premier hanging governor. But then a most remarkable thing happened. On June 18, just twelve days before Henry’s scheduled demise, Governor Bush asked the State Board of Pardons and Paroles, whose members are appointed by Bush himself, to review Henry’s case. Strangely enough, eight days later the Board uncharacteristically recommended that Henry’s execution not take place.

    The very next day, just three days short of Henry’s scheduled exit from this world, Lucas became the first – and to date only – recipient of Governor Bush’s compassionate conservatism. The official rationale for this act of mercy was, apparently, that the evidence on which Lucas was sentenced did not support his conviction. There was a possibility that Henry was in fact innocent of the crime for which he was convicted. Never mind that many of the 130 death row inmates who did not get special gubernatorial attention prior to their executions had credible claims of innocence that were met with by nothing but scorn and mockery.

    Suddenly Little George had developed a keen interest in not executing innocent convicts. Never mind as well that some of those who have been executed despite claims of innocence were – other than the crime for which they were being executed – law-abiding citizens. Whereas Henry was by all accounts a serial rapist, kidnapper, torturer and murderer. And never mind that once Henry was spared, Bush promptly lost this passing interest and began once again rubber stamping every execution order that crossed his desk, including that of a great-grandmother in her sixties who was convicted of killing her chronically abusive husband (Betty Lou Beets, in February 2000).

  17. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    test

  18. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Morocco Bama PERMALINK
    February 5, 2012
    I can distance myself.
    But then what am I?
    On it goes.
    But you are distancing yourself by saying “YOU Americans” to all of U.S. citizens who post here who stand up against us in any way we know how without running away and pretending we’ve disowned our country of origin, but yet checking its vitals everyday to test whether it still lives.
    ____________________

    Whoa, whoa! Don’t you dare speak for me! Just who do you think you are?
    Speak for yourself, ONLY!
    I have no problem with Groo’s statement or posts and as an American I take great exception to your hubris. Please knock it the fuck off!

  19. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    I am speaking for myself, ONLY. If you agree, you agree, if you don’t, you don’t. I’m saying I’m not going to pretend to run away and chastise from afar and pretend I’m now immune from any of its implications. I’m going to stay right here and stare it in the fucking face and find a way, or die trying, to wade through this conundrum, because there is no running and hiding from it. It’s everywhere. Witness the sex slave trade (including children) in Thailand.

    Replace one word in groo’s statement, and you quickly see your hypocrisy. How about if it read “YOU Jews” or “YOU Muslims” or “YOU Arabs” or “YOU Iranians.” How about if it read “the Jewish Mind” or “the Muslim Mind” or “the Arab Mind” or the “Persian Mind” or the “Female Mind” or the “Gay Mind.”

    Good for you, Celsius, you have no problem with groo’s recent posts or statements. That statement helps me draw greater clarity into your character and belief system…..your values, since this discussion has now evolved into a discussion about alleged values.

    I can’t wait for you to rationalize away and justify Thailand’s foibles, like one would flick off a mosquito.

  20. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    groo, thanks for sharing that about your father. That’s a different situation, altogether, and raises some interesting discussion points about guilt and how it can be transferred and/or fostered. I saw a documentary recently about a Holocaust survivor who traveled to Germany to meet with the daughter of the monster, Amon Goeth. At times, it made me so uncomfortable, I had to avert my gaze.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQrq4ljb48g

    She is amazingly genuine and forthright. She also mentions some incredible facts…like how she didn’t even know what a Jew was growing up because there weren’t any, and the Holocaust was never mentioned, nor taught.

  21. groo permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Morocco Bama, Celsius,

    we are such a tiny community.
    I value You.

    Please!

    I am getting offensive at times. Which leads to some soul-searching, which I dutifully do for the service a hopefully kind and benevolent telecommuting group.
    We are here together -voluntarily- by way of a very delicate device, which is the internet.

    (Sounds a bit antiquated, but never mind)

  22. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Speaking of Texas Justice, groo, it is unique even amongst the backdrop of the entirety of Justice as it’s practiced in the U.S. This excellent documentary by Errol Morris, The Thin Blue Line, exemplifies it nicely. It hits home with me in a nostalgic way since I lived on Inwood Rd. and attended high school on Inwood Rd. For anyone who hasn’t seen this pearl, you really must. It’s a gem from, and about, the Hinterland.

    http://movieclips.com/9cdne-the-thin-blue-line-movie-the-death-sentence/

  23. groo permalink
    February 5, 2012

    MB,

    thanks for bringing this to my attention.
    Watched this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHNf4No5WtY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

    Morris asks exactly the right questions, which every thinking/feeling being should.
    You have this preconfigured ‘reality’ inside your head, and try to match it to the -ahem- reality outside.
    This preconfiguration is ‘You’ in a sense, and this cascade of ‘distancing’, which I tried to formulate above, is the thinking. Any thinking is distancing, not identification. Else we land in the Stockholm-syndrome or worse.

    Re Texas:
    Have been there two times.
    Once all through the country as a student. El Paso/Juarez I will never forget.
    Then Houston/NASA. Decent scientists, as if on another planet. The US to me is a country of extreme contrast and also extreme cognitive dissonance. Maybe this leads from right-wrong to sort of manichaean good-evil.
    (My country is quite moderate, which partly comes from an obsession with the past. ‘We’ always remember. A felt half of the country is a memorial, which has to be protected and cultivated. There is a tension between conservation and innovation.)

    The global hegemon definitely has a manichaean bend. Just listen to Romney, whose categories seem to reduce to caricatures of Capitalism-Communism, or GWBs ‘axis of evil’.

    Enough said.

  24. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Just listen to Romney

    Nope, I won’t. He’s got nothing to say. None of them do. It’s all a bunch of horseshit. I repudiate it.

  25. Guesty permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Canadian slams Americans:

    “The pathetic attempts of Americans to pretend they’re good people and don’t deserve what’s happening to them are just that, pathetic. Yeah, some of them are good, but not enough. It’s just that simple.”

    Morocco Bama permalink
    December 19, 2011
    Yet another Grand Slam. I couldn’t agree more. Every step of the way, the “Little People,” because of their prejudices, traded away what little liberty and freedom they had for short-term conveniences, thus deferring responsibility and accountability until their progeny were rendered permanent infants, or at best, adolescents.

    groo or US expats slam Yankees and…

    “Replace one word in groo’s statement, and you quickly see your hypocrisy. How about if it read “YOU Jews” or “YOU Muslims” or “YOU Arabs” or “YOU Iranians.” How about if it read “the Jewish Mind” or “the Muslim Mind” or “the Arab Mind” or the “Persian Mind” or the “Female Mind” or the “Gay Mind.”

    “Also, your characterization of “America” is anecdotal, and certainly not my experience. America is many things wrapped all into one. America is like a carnival with its joy rides, its bearded ladies, the snake man, the strong man, the soothsayer…..and the carny barker. There is no singular American Mind, and I don’t believe there is a singular German Mind.”

    “The ingredients aren’t there to bake the cake of true change. The People have been neutered and spayed. Nearly everyone these days is an ethical Eunuch without an ounce of real fight in them.”

    As Lisa said a few days back, consistency ain’t your forte.

  26. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    There’s no inconsistency there, Guesty. All those statements are quite compatible, not inconsistent.

    If Ian’s statement were to have read as follows, I would have taken umbrage with it:

    The pathetic attempts of you Americans to pretend you’re good people and don’t deserve what’s happening to you are just that, pathetic. The American Mind is a perverse abomination that should be wiped from the face of the earth. It’s just that simple.

    Ian understood his audience here. He understands that many of the U.S. citizens who post here do not possess the qualities that comprise what is often referred to as “Americans.” He even provided the caveat that there are good people in America, but not enough.

    As groo says, it’s difficult to think of it as good versus evil. As my statement that you quoted asserts, the “Little People,” because of their prejudices, traded away what little liberty and freedom they had for short-term conveniences, thus deferring responsibility and accountability until their progeny were rendered permanent infants, or at best, adolescents. That rendering, and of course there are exceptions, has had the capacity for accountability and responsibility stunted through indoctrination. I guess in that sense, they will have to pay the price for the trade-offs of prior generations. Well, we all will. Not just “Americans.” And, I stand by the American Mind accusation. There’s no such thing. There’s a great deal of mindlessness, that’s for sure, but by and large, “Americans” are spoon fed what to think and do to the point where the will of an independently collective Mind is non-existent.

    What’s interesting in your accusation that doesn’t take into account linguistical nuance and instead conflates, is that even if you were correct about me being inconsistent, you treat consistency as though it is superior to inconsistency, when that’s really not the case. One can think of numerous cases, and pose a very rational argument that one is not not superior to the other….but rather, it’s all relative.

    And no, I clarified to Lisa what I meant, and it was not inconsistent with what I asserted previously. However, from Lisa’s perspective, wouldn’t it be advantageous if I was inconsistent, and instead of remaining neutral, and leaving my options open concerning potential violence, I instead changed my tune and adopted a strict stance of non-violent civil disobedience? She would have persuaded me, and inconsistency, at least relative to her and her aspirations, would have been a positive thing, not the opposite.

  27. groo permalink
    February 5, 2012

    oh, Guesty,

    I live in a small town, and our ‘deadliest’ enemies live in the small town just 20km away.
    So what?
    Step back a bit, –google earth helps– and You get the picture.

    Its NOT fractals all the way up/down. There are borders.
    Eg borders of the nation-state.
    Canada – US – Mexico.
    Why do you build borders?
    Please explain.
    Not that I consider this a solution.

    What I just tried to explain with El Paso/Juarez is a probably outdated memory.
    Do not know how it is nowadays, but definitely not better, from what I read and hear.

    The Mexican mind, if you will, is quite different from the US-American. And this is nothing fractal!
    It is quite fundamental! Chiapas. Can you compromise, based on your belief-system?
    I doubt that. And why? Are you possibly Mcdonaldized?
    Some distance helps.

    The problem is, how to overcome this.
    To find a decent compromise between modes of living.

    But because you do not seem to recognize the problem in the first place, you probably will not be part of the solution.

  28. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 5, 2012

    I can’t wait for you to rationalize away and justify Thailand’s foibles, like one would flick off a mosquito.
    _______________

    Oh, so now your an expert on Thailand? You do seem to like personal attacks when your on the defensive: Oh well, do carry on…

  29. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Make that “you’re”…

  30. Ian Welsh permalink
    February 5, 2012

    Less fighting, folks.

  31. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 5, 2012

    groo, here’s another one concerning Texas Justice, and serial killers in the U.S., in general. It’s a book called Programmed To Kill by Dave McGowan and there’s a section in it about George W. Bush (that dirty no good German Bastard….just kidding….about the German part 🙂 ) when he was Governor of Texas and his prowess as Executioner In Chief…except when it came to the curious case of Henry Lee Lucas. It’s something that will make you scratch your head and it does make one realize that the answers to some of these questions are much deeper than we ever possibly imagined.

    http://www.whale.to/b/henry.html

    On June 30th of 1998, Henry Lee Lucas, arguably the most prolific and certainly one of the most sadistic serial killers in the annals of crime was scheduled for execution by the state of Texas. Given the advocacy of the death penalty by Governor George W. Bush, things clearly weren’t looking good for Henry at that time.

    Bush had not granted clemency to any condemned man in his tenure as governor. In fact, no governor of any state in the entire history of the country has carried out more judicial executions than has Governor George. At last count, the state of Texas had dispatched 130 inmates on Bush’s watch.

    So Texas was definitely not the place to be for a man in Henry’s position. And considering the nature of Henry’s crimes, it seemed a certainty that nothing would stand in the way of Henry’s scheduled execution. There weren’t likely to be any high-profile supporters, a la Karla Faye Tucker (though even personal appeals to Bush from the likes of Pat Robertson failed to dissuade the governor from proceeding on schedule with Miss Tucker’s execution). Not likely because Henry’s crimes were of a particularly brutal nature, involving rape, torture, mutilation, dismemberment, necrophilia, cannibalism, and pedophilia, with the number of victims running as high as 300-600 by some accounts – including Henry’s own, at times – though this figure is likely inflated.

    By all accounts though, Lucas, frequently working with partner Ottis Toole – a self described arsonist and cannibal – savagely murdered literally scores of victims of all ages, races, and genders. All indications were then that this was pretty much of a no-brainer for America’s premier hanging governor. But then a most remarkable thing happened. On June 18, just twelve days before Henry’s scheduled demise, Governor Bush asked the State Board of Pardons and Paroles, whose members are appointed by Bush himself, to review Henry’s case. Strangely enough, eight days later the Board uncharacteristically recommended that Henry’s execution not take place.

    The very next day, just three days short of Henry’s scheduled exit from this world, Lucas became the first – and to date only – recipient of Governor Bush’s compassionate conservatism. The official rationale for this act of mercy was, apparently, that the evidence on which Lucas was sentenced did not support his conviction. There was a possibility that Henry was in fact innocent of the crime for which he was convicted. Never mind that many of the 130 death row inmates who did not get special gubernatorial attention prior to their executions had credible claims of innocence that were met with by nothing but scorn and mockery.

    Suddenly Little George had developed a keen interest in not executing innocent convicts. Never mind as well that some of those who have been executed despite claims of innocence were – other than the crime for which they were being executed – law-abiding citizens. Whereas Henry was by all accounts a serial rapist, kidnapper, torturer and murderer. And never mind that once Henry was spared, Bush promptly lost this passing interest and began once again rubber stamping every execution order that crossed his desk, including that of a great-grandmother in her sixties who was convicted of killing her chronically abusive husband (Betty Lou Beets, in February 2000).

  32. Guesty permalink
    February 5, 2012

    MB, first off, love the passive-aggressive contortionism. You rock.

    2nd off, Ian has clearly stated that all Americans are complicit—I think he singled out candy-ass Montessori teachers in particular for not rioting in the streets post-SCOTUS 2000.

    Carry on.

  33. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 6, 2012

    I think he singled out candy-ass Montessori teachers in particular

    Oh my, what a class act. Nice try, but I’m not a Montessori teacher, my wife is, and the reason she wouldn’t riot is exactly because of the comment you just made. She would never waste her time for, and with, scum that would make such a comment. She’d rather spend her time on those who still have a chance, not on the likes of an individual (if you can call him/her that) who makes a comment like that….they’re poisoned and wasted beyond repair.

    Now, who’s hiding behind the Guesty/Guest moniker? I suspect it’s a regular poster who wants to get particularly nasty, but doesn’t want his/her comments to tarnish their otherwise pristine image, but that’s just me being paranoid, I suppose.

    Carry on (that’s a clue).

  34. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 6, 2012

    “Carry on (that’s a clue)”.
    ___________________

    Yes, I noticed that as well; I wish he had used a different ending.
    But he didn’t; you’re acting nut’s!
    Get a grip and grow up!

  35. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 6, 2012

    I wish he had used a different ending.
    But he didn’t

    Why do you assume it’s a he? I mean, I considered it a distinct possibility, but when it’s not explicitly clear, I avoid taking the chance. However, the tone does remind of another famous male expat, and “Lefty”, Ira Einhorn. As I mentioned, “America” is a carnival…replete with its share of opportunistic, murdering Unicorns. I wonder how many of them are sprinkled amidst the budding OWS “Movement.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2KK0dmpEJI

    And no, I don’t hold disdain for expats, in general. There is one expat for whom I have great respect. Paul Bowles. For any of you who have not read his works, you really must. His writing is exquisitely beautiful, and he gives great insight into the complexity of Arab culture(s).

    http://www.paulbowles.org/booksbest.html

  36. February 6, 2012

    Hedges goes after the Black Bloc – self-described “anarchists” who feed the chaos-and-violence cliche about anarchy:

    The Cancer in Occupy

  37. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 6, 2012

    Petro, that’s an excellent read and fodder for much discussion. Read the comments in that link, too, if you get a chance.

  38. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 6, 2012

    Here’s a good first step. Kudos to them, and may their actions be replicated worldwide.

    Greek Hospital Now Under Workers’ Control

  39. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 6, 2012

    You tell em, Josey Wales. It’s not over until the fat lady sings! It’s only halftime in America. America’s gonna come from behind in the second half and Win One For The Gipper.

    This Superbowl Ad Brought To You By Fiat, An Italian Company

  40. February 6, 2012

    I was going to post Chris Hedges’s column, but I see that Petro beat me to it. At the risk of further pissing people off, I will excerpt only this out of a column excellent in its entirety, because I’ve been thinking about precisely this over the past few days:

    The Black Bloc movement is infected with a deeply disturbing hypermasculinity. This hypermasculinity, I expect, is its primary appeal. It taps into the lust that lurks within us to destroy, not only things but human beings. It offers the godlike power that comes with mob violence. Marching as a uniformed mass, all dressed in black to become part of an anonymous bloc, faces covered, temporarily overcomes alienation, feelings of inadequacy, powerlessness and loneliness. It imparts to those in the mob a sense of comradeship. It permits an inchoate rage to be unleashed on any target. Pity, compassion, and tenderness are banished for the intoxication of power. It is the same sickness that fuels the swarms of police who pepper-spray and beat peaceful demonstrators. It is the sickness of soldiers in war. It turns human beings into beasts.

  41. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 6, 2012

    Lisa, it doesn’t piss me off in the least….you posting that excerpt. Hedges is asserting there what Stewart and I have asserted. Senseless, rogue mob violence will accomplish nothing positive. Directed violence as was witnessed in the Cuban Revolution is another matter altogether. I don’t think there was any other way the people of Cuba were going to throw off the Plutocratic Yoke other than the way they did. I don’t entirely agree with how they managed the aftermath, but considering what they were, and still are, up against, it’s understandable.

  42. Ian Welsh permalink
    February 6, 2012

    Cuba has managed the aftermath quite well. Is there some political repression, sure, but the people are so much better off it isn’t even funny.

    As for hypermasculinity, people don’t even know what masculinity looks like anymore. The non-violence folks just sit there and take and take it.

    I like Chris, but he’s full of shit on this. But I’m tired of arguing this. You can’t even point out the obvious, like that Tahrir isn’t non-violent and wasn’t non-violent. People live in a completely delusional world.

    Progressives are far more interested in being “morally correct” than in winning. Until they’re willing to do what it takes, they’ll continue getting their asses handed to them. Your fellow citizens like torture, they like hurting you, your moral “superiority” doesn’t move them, they laugh and think you’re getting what you deserve. That’s who Americans are now. They like seeing hippies get their faces smashed in.

    Being crucified isn’t going to win you this battle.

    Fortunately, in both Oakland and DC, despite the hand wringing of the professional activists who have accomplished nothing in 30 years while insisting on non-violence, people on the ground are beginning to fight back. Setting up barricades against the cops, breaking a kettle, and so on. In Greece, they sacked the home of the Greek President, and so on.

    There are conditions under which peaceful protest work, and there are types of peaceful protest which work under specific circumstances. The peaceful protest fanatics can’t even enumerate what those are, because for them, as Hedges makes clear, non-violence is a moral stand which is to be pursued whether it works or not, rather than a strategic or tactical choice to be used when it is likely to work.

    (Maybe I’ll rip apart the study which purports than non-violence works at some point, but probably not. Tired of doing real work for free, while morons get paid to be wrong all the time.)

  43. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 7, 2012

    Moyers is back;

    http://billmoyers.com/episode/how-do-conservatives-and-liberals-see-the-world/

    This is worth a watch because it’s a fascinating program highlighting the differences between, as the title says, the differences in our thinking and how we view things. Cheers

  44. Formerly T-Bear permalink
    February 7, 2012

    @ 233ºC

    Nice watch, however there may be a fundamental flaw ascribing the difference to philosophical outlooks (notice how uniform the “conservative” response was in all categories, a warning of dangerous conclusions if anything). Other studies reported in European media point to evidence that the liberal/conservative divide was based upon the use of differing brain regions to process information and thought. The short version, liberals use higher developed parts of the brain in their thinking processes, the conservative rely on the primitive areas in their cognition. The presentation of the theory was too smooth to ring true, much the same as free markets, trickle-down and deregulation theories but at the same time good licks for goombaiya rapprochement and rapport evidenced in what passes as the political conduct and philosophy of the current occupant of the whitehouse. Cheers

    @ Ian

    You are wasting your time bringing this information to the majority of your audience, anything that is not already programmed into their consciousness is programmed to be disregarded, beside your minder in the comments will not agree and will disrupt all attempts at discourse, diverting whatever conservation to subjects of their approbation. The minders suppression of opinion with which they disagree stifles entry into the conversation of many and has in the past driven off some outstanding points of view whose authors failed to contend with the outpouring of insidious crap from your minder. Good luck with that.

  45. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 7, 2012

    I disagree with Hedges on this point.

    John Zerzan, one of the principal ideologues of the Black Bloc movement in the United States, defended “Industrial Society and Its Future,” the rambling manifesto by Theodore Kaczynski, known as the Unabomber, although he did not endorse Kaczynski’s bombings

    I think it’s a dirty tactic on Hedges part. You can agree with parts of that manifesto…..meaning what is said, in some respects, rings true and resonates, and not align yourself with the tactics utilized by the obviously disturbed individual who penned them. Has Hedges looked at how deep the Kaczynski story goes? I doubt it, probably because he’s not interested…but he should be. You can’t overcome an enemy you don’t understand.

    Anyhow, I won’t thrwo out the babies in the bathwater of the Unabomber’s Manifesto. There’s some very interesting material in there, and he wasn’t off the mark with a number of his observations and/or interpretations of events/trends.

    Also, there are many types of cancer, not just the one Hedges mentions. In fact, I’m not sure I would label the Black Blok a cancer on the “Movement.” To the Occupiers, maybe more like a wart, or a corn. The cancer is more genetic in form….inherited. I posted this before, in another thread, but it appeared to have gone unnoticed. I know it’s Jon Stewart, and it’s satire of a satire, but it’s poignant. What Stewart and his staff reveal is the greatest threat to the OWS “Movement”, IMO.

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided

  46. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 7, 2012

    Formerly T-Bear PERMALINK
    February 7, 2012
    @ 233ºC
    Nice watch, however there may be a fundamental flaw ascribing the difference to philosophical outlooks (notice how uniform the “conservative” response was in all categories, a warning of dangerous conclusions if anything). Other studies reported in European media point to evidence that the liberal/conservative divide was based upon the use of differing brain regions to process information and thought. The short version, liberals use higher developed parts of the brain in their thinking processes, the conservative rely on the primitive areas in their cognition. The presentation of the theory was too smooth to ring true, much the same as free markets, trickle-down and deregulation theories but at the same time good licks for goombaiya rapprochement and rapport evidenced in what passes as the political conduct and philosophy of the current occupant of the whitehouse. Cheers
    ______________________

    Yeah, appreciate the heads up; but I already am looking at it and couldn’t agree more.
    I only trust my own gut; and it rings true 99%.
    Jonathan Haidt was a bit too calm (for lack of a better word) in his analysis, but I found some nuggets there which garnered some attention. Remember Sun Tsu, The Art of War? Know your enemy; understand your enemy/adversary.
    But he did say some things regarding liberals and conservatives which seemed to ring true for understanding the dichotomy. Being neither it’s more of an exercise in understanding the “other” for me.
    The differing brain regions shtick is just another rationalization for choices made. As are most other crap psychology theories.
    I also agree with your comment to Ian; which, once again, makes me question WTF am I doing commenting here or anywhere else?
    Oh well, the beat goes on, no?
    Cheers Bear…

  47. February 7, 2012

    Cuba has managed the aftermath quite well. Is there some political repression, sure, but the people are so much better off it isn’t even funny.

    Perhaps MB was referring to the ease in which Che & Co. embraced summary execution during the fight, and into the early days of the post-revolution. In which case, I would concur that there are valid criticisms. As a matter of fact, Saint Che is a perfect example of what sort of leadership you get when you permit brutality in your revolution. In the name of expedience. Of winning.

    I am, in general, supportive of the Cuban regime – and especially impressed with what Fidel has pulled off in the face of the mother of all embargoes (especially post-Soviet – and who knows how successful the Cuban experiment could have become without this hindrance), but I will say that accounts of the arc of the revolution leave me cold.

    And I’m not buying that this brutality was necessary – I know that the “success” of it buttresses Ian’s view here. Perhaps it may have taken longer, or maybe never happened but, to me, what happened in Cuba was more incremental than revolutionary. Economically “revolutionary” in that it was a pissing contest between capitalism & “socialism”, but I’ve got my eye on a bigger prize, and it has to do with how we organize socially.

    Fuck bullies and bosses. No man/woman above another.

    As for hypermasculinity, people don’t even know what masculinity looks like anymore. The non-violence folks just sit there and take and take it.

    I’m a pussy – I get it (yes, I know you’re comment wasn’t directed towards me, but I’m taking up the gauntlet today. I’m in a mood.) This thinly-veiled misogynist taunt is beneath you, Ian.

    Progressives are far more interested in being “morally correct” than in winning. Until they’re willing to do what it takes, they’ll continue getting their asses handed to them. Your fellow citizens like torture, they like hurting you, your moral “superiority” doesn’t move them, they laugh and think you’re getting what you deserve. That’s who Americans are now. They like seeing hippies get their faces smashed in.

    Being crucified isn’t going to win you this battle.

    Speaking of taunts – this is the sort of rhetoric I enjoyed on the schoolyard when I refused to get into a fight. And of course, the bullies are always right… in the short term. Unless, of course, you buy their argument and join in, in which case the Empire of violence lives on through another generation, as it were. It’s only when you say “no” to this that there is a chance (not a guarantee!) that it may stop.

    Not a guarantee! That’s what makes it heroic. That’s why our hearts climb into our throats when the names of even the ineffectual pacifists – the martyrs – are spoken.

    When winning is more important that being “morally correct”, we do not have the same emotional relationship to these “winners.” That’s your heart, telling you something.

    See, worrying about whether or not non-violence is a tactic that “works” on the road to winning smacks of means-justifying-the-ends to some of us who are apparently overly concerned with being “morally correct.”

    I know when the devil is whispering in my ear.

  48. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 7, 2012

    Here’s a trippy German documentary that touches on Kaczynski…but placed in a much larger context. It’s intriguing, in the least.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQAwLb-DEE

  49. February 7, 2012

    OK, that docu looks like a lot of fun… thanks MB.

  50. groo permalink
    February 7, 2012

    Do’nt know if I’m still welcome here, but anyway.

    I was confused by the trashing of Chris Hedges , whom I keep in high regard.
    I read quite a lot of comments at commondreams, and concerning the black block he maybe got something wrong here.
    I don’t know.
    The black block, as I see it, is somehow universal.
    It played a role at Tahrir (the football guys) and is present in Germany (sorry to mention this again) also. The black block is to my understanding an intrinsic affair of a/any(?) resistance-movement.
    This is on both sides.

    Who is -ahem – ‘communicating’ depends on the situation, and hopefully the more moderate factions get the overhand.
    This is a struggle with some hinterland.

    I myself associate to Zerzan-type primitivism, but pay attention to the Kaczinsky-type also.
    TK was no nutcase, as conventional thinking tried to corner him.
    I read the manifesto quite thoroughly some time ago, and also know the film MB has linked to. It’s a good one.

    Maybe my testosterone-level is not high enough anymore, and lose any fight with the bankster-mob with their long ring-fingers and that and their strange behaviors in the ultimatum game.

    To avoid a fight, I just would want to shift them through an fmri-scanner, detect their mental deficiencies, and put them into some asylum. (no killing, please)
    All the Hitlers, Stalins, Goebbels, Bushes, Mladics, Gaddafis, Assads, and whathaveyou.

    As convenient this may be, I am afraid this will not solve our problems.

  51. February 7, 2012

    groo – I’m with you. I’ve got a long-ish comment in moderation that should appear up above, in defense – once again – of non-violence. I’m sure it will appear shortly, after Ian crafts his response (OK, I’m just kidding, Ian…)

  52. groo permalink
    February 7, 2012

    Petro,

    what annoys me at times , is, that we look at the Egyptians or the Greek, or the Syrians as sort of an unenlightened, primitive people, which they are not.

    They are just in a different situation, and the tools of resistance they use match the situation.

    We can see how much this can deteriorate, and the tools of resistance match the situation.
    All this is not starightforward, because the west, so to sy, has developed a very sophisticated method of ‘democratic ‘ face-preservation, which totalitarian regimes lack.

    Quite some time ago I tried to formulate as ‘appeal to shame’ as the lowest, most decent appeal to recover a decent society.
    Appeal to shame is an appeal to the moral faculties of the societal collective and especially the
    elite. This is currently imploding.

    The next step would be appeal to law.

    This is also in danger, but I have some hope on this level .
    Eg tax evasion over 1Million € is UNCONDITIONALLY punished with prison in Germany.
    This gives me some hope, that the rule of law actually can be effective.
    We’ll see.
    No need for the guillotine yet.

    The US is definitely in a worse condition, but not yet everything is lost.

    There is an extreme divergence concerning the rule of law.
    See eg the Spanish, who give the primates human rights status.
    This is embarrassing for me backward German, to see the Spanish abandon ‘Corrida’ and such.
    Maybe the ICC will succeed in not only indicting Mladic and Milosevic, but also Bush and Blair.
    But this is a power-struggle, which has some way to go.

    There is a certain movement, which bases on the appeal to shame and the rule of law, where we do not yet have to appeal to force.

    Maybe this will change sometime, but not yet.
    Mrs Clinton and Mr Obama should feel ashamed, when they appeal to ‘freedom’ in China, simultaneously restricting freedoms in the homeland.
    This should produce some shame via cognitive dissonance.

    Maybe Obama develops some shame, if eg the Nobel-Price is retracted from him.

    If he has no shame then. Well. We see.

  53. February 7, 2012

    Amazing. Ian, the problem you’re having is that some people don’t want to look at reality of this situation or, if they do, they don’t want to look at it squarely. Non-violence has become such a feel good fetish in some circles that it’s not even just a tactic that can be used for winning anymore, it’s the thing in and of itself.

    And if Hedges is fretting about the “hypermasculinity” ( what the hell…) of the Black Bloc of certain OWS groups who, other than being loud, dressed in black, breaking a few windows and getting into occasional scuffles with the cops, haven’t done much, I can’t imagine how he would have reacted to the Weathemen, Malcom X/N.O.I, or the Panthers, etc..

  54. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 8, 2012

    Here’s an excellent retort to Hedges article. It appears Hedges also has his inconsistencies….we all do, and that’s alright, because in order to have proper conviction on this topic, and not end up a tool of someone or something that is ten steps ahead of you, you must be ambivalent and reflect and introspect on it after engaging a process of personal due diligence before coming to a conviction, and even then, you must remain reflexive and adaptive, willing to change your view as more information presents itself that may disconfirm what you previously held to be true.

    http://www.revolutionbythebook.akpress.org/to-be-fair-he-is-a-journalist-a-short-response-to-chris-hedges-on-the-black-bloc/

    Some of this is personal to me, in the interest of full disclosure. I have friends in Oakland. They’re brave and awesome. Seeing them stand up to police repression and attempt to take an empty building while people sleep in the streets was exciting and invigorating for me. It was a welcome sight in today’s age of non-violent fundamentalism, where so many are beset with the crippling belief that if we just get beat up badly enough we’ll attract “the masses” with our moral superiority and somehow the wealthy and powerful will recognize the error of their ways and give us the world back that they’ve so successfully turned into their nightmarish, authoritarian, and wasted playground. My friends were gassed, beaten, given broken faces, broken dreams, and locked in cages for their bravery. And now they’re being denounced by a comfortable journalist who wasn’t there who refers to them as a “cancer”.

    I don’t want to suggest that they shouldn’t be critiqued. Self-critique is important for any improvement of practice—if it’s honest.

    But here I feel betrayed. When Hedges wrote about the Greeks, notorious for their black blocs, he praised them for “getting it.” Indeed, according to Hedges, they knew what to do. In Hedges own words:

    “They know what to do when they are told their pensions, benefits and jobs have to be cut to pay corporate banks, which screwed them in the first place. Call a general strike. Riot. Shut down the city centers. Toss the bastards out. Do not be afraid of the language of class warfare—the rich versus the poor, the oligarchs versus the citizens, the capitalists versus the proletariat. The Greeks, unlike most of us, get it.”

    Apparently for Hedges, that’s good enough for the Greeks. But, by God, don’t you dare bring this filthy resistance to his home! You might accidentally (horror of horrors!) break a window! Perhaps it might belong to Hedges! Well, I passed around his piece on Greece thinking that perhaps there was, in fact, a journalist that “gets it.” I was wrong and I feel betrayed.

    So I am angry at Hedges. I know it shows and it will look ugly to some people, but at one point, I trusted his work. And now, I have broken and brave friends that he is denouncing in a movement that he is dividing and presuming to speak for.

    After the Move-In Day, the Mayor of Oakland, Jean Quan, asked the Occupy movement to “disown” Oakland because they were militant, uncompromising, and because they were willing to engage in the kinds of “class warfare” that Hedges once praised in Greece. Occupy groups quickly dismissed this as a divisive tactic, but Hedges and Derrick Jensen seem all too eager to help Mayor Quan out. We live in interesting times, but we need to see these kinds of attacks for what they are—forms of recuperating needed and justified rage. When rigid ideologues who think they have some kind of special access to “Truth” come in swinging like this, particularly right after being politely asked to by liberal Mayors like Quan to do so, it’s time to do some quick disowning. We should reject the attempts to divide us by the likes of Quan, Jensen, and Hedges and, more importantly, reject the lies and distortions embedded in these facile “critiques.” Shame on you, Chris. If you want to denounce “violence,” you might use your time to target the police and Mayor Quan instead of doing the work they’ve asked Occupy “leaders” to do for them.

  55. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 8, 2012

    Would Chris call this fella hypermasculine? Maybe? Depends on the day’s agenda? He has to flip a coin? It’s okay for Greece, but not for Oakland?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/image/iud9iWwaH6Zs.jpg

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-08/greek-haggling-drags-on-as-meeting-to-seal-terms-of-second-bailout-delayed.html

    Greece is us, and we are Greece. Chris needs to embrace that if anything’s to be accomplished. Capital is Global. Any resistance also has to be Global, otherwise Global Capital will Divide and Conquer.

  56. February 8, 2012

    MB – thanks for linking to Gato’s post at RBTB. It successfully challenges what Hedges wrote, and what I’ve been thinking and saying. I hope that I will not be accused of intellectual contortionism by what follows, but a guys got to try to get his intellectual ducks in line…

    I think the nut of contention is in your statement that “Greece is us, and we are Greece” – implications, made more strongly elsewhere, that condoning the often-violent uprisings of the Arab spring is a cultural bigotry (OK for those “backward” people.) This may be true for some people (this is “America,” after all), I hope its not necessary for me to say that I find such notions repellant.

    And yet, I think I can contain this apparent contradiction of Hedges’ and (well-meaning) others’.

    Perhaps the lines are drawn differently in our different cultures. While it is in decline, we still have a relatively robust “middle class,” and these are people who, while deserving of the condemnations expressed here (e.g., Ian’s awesomely provocative post Yes, the American people are responsible), they can still be characterized as relatively innocent (recall the contentious debate there that still crops up in these threads), or at least naive, about their political role in enabling the elite’s sacking of the commons.

    Money is grease everywhere, but our system(s) are designed to put a credible veneer on it, so there is a significant swath of the American population that does not “get” the sort of rioting that was more quickly embraced by masses overseas – at least not until more decimation of the “middle class” occurs here, and the gap and clean delineation of rich and poor is more decisively established.

    Yes, I am making a point about “tactical” non-violence. So – lest I, at this point, be accused of contradicting myself (having argued upthread that non-violence is a moral virtue to be considered independently of efficacy), I would like to make the point that in a culture where the lines are more clearly drawn, so is the violence against the people more clearly visible, so that what looks like aggression from afar is much more defensive to the participants involved.

    Simply put – the American “Black Bloc” in general have not yet suffered the privations – material and emotional – that populations abroad have suffered. In this view they are, relatively speaking, poseurs.

    It’s a tautology, really. As long as the population in general doesn’t get it, it isn’t popular. When they do get it, the nature of “revolution” changes. It’s like insurgency – if you have the popular support, you have the beds and the foods to play rope-a-dope with the State. If you don’t, then you are a criminal.

    (This is me thinking on the fly, doing that “philosophizin’ to justify my position” thing. I’m sure you folks will let me know how well, or badly, I’ve pulled it off.)

  57. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 8, 2012

    Petro, I do believe you are getting to the crux of it with that thinking out loud you did in your post. The U.S. is a much more fragmented society from a class perspective…..at least in perception. In reality, U.S. citizens are much closer economically than many of them have been led to believe. The propaganda has the majority believing they are Middle Class, when in fact the majority are one, or several, paychecks away from homelessness and starvation. As you say, though, more and more are missing that last paycheck, and the ranks of the dispossessed are swelling. Without a coordinated effort that takes all tactics into account and without a clear, coherent and effective vision, the dispossessed and destitute will not be in any kind of position to fight back, let alone resist. Numerian had an excellent essay about this over at the Agonist. He validates a line of thinking I have been incubating for the past year, maybe longer, that this is exactly where we are heading. I’ll leave you with that link, and a link to Harsha Walia who presents an excellent argument in support of the black blob tactics.

    Harsha Walia (love that name)

    Look Carefully at Those North Koreans Mourning the Death of Kim Jong-il – We Could be Them Someday

  58. groo permalink
    February 8, 2012

    MB,

    I reread Hedges article and must confess that I did’nt thoroughly enough in the first round.
    Also Zerzan, whom I remember as a deep primitivist (>5years ago) with no association to the black bloc. Maybe this has changed, or i never understood him.
    Primitivists destructing dams and being sentenced to >10years prison maybe has changed his mind. ahem. Rightly so.
    Mea culpa.

    Hedges got a lot of headwinds at commondreams.
    625 Comments so far per 20120208 20:44 CET.
    A record.
    Not all for reasons I endorse, to be sure.

    What to do?
    No magic formula.

    But as it goes, the left starts to disintegrate.

    See this:
    The Right’s Stupidity Spreads, Enabled by a Too-Polite Left.
    ( George Monbiot )
    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/02/07-5

    Am sort of consternated.

    The Elite has a special technique to appeal to the stupids, to use violence to their advantage, whereas the left seem to behave like sheeple, ready to be slaughtered.

    This is a dangerous meme!

  59. February 8, 2012

    Thanks, Morocco – the Walia talk was quite edifying. I added them to a post I’ve put up on this subject at my place.

  60. groo permalink
    February 8, 2012

    Re the appeal to stupidity.

    this is the mastery of the right-wing authoritarians.
    Rantorum, Romney, Gingrich.

    Stir up the Stupids, bring them to the ballot, and win an election.
    Quite simple.
    Why engage in deep thinking, if a simple trick does the job and fills your pockets?

    Appealing to IQ >120 is nonsensical, when IQ <100 makes 50% of the population per definition.
    you only need to stir them up to go to the ballot-box, do some Gerrymandering and other massaging of the outcome, and there you go.

    'Democracy' is a game, destined to be rigged by the clever people.

    No facts.
    Only stubborn leftists believe in 'facts'.
    It is BELIEVE.
    Or, as the Marx brothers said: Do you believe what I say or your lying eyes?

    McDonalds eating fatties viewing Fox etc are prone to BELIEVE, else their miserable existence would get too hard to bear.

    Sorry. sorry.
    I am not entiteled to say that.

  61. groo permalink
    February 8, 2012

    –Santorum…
    (My spelling-checker does not know the difference. Rant-orum –Saint-Orum …)

  62. February 8, 2012

    Rantorum works. 🙂

  63. February 8, 2012

    Sick Rantorum.

  64. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 9, 2012

    In the end; it’s possible to be way stupider than Gloria Feldt; witness our president and “his” minions (but they’re not actually HIS, he is theirs) and their current decisions regarding the world order.
    It’s a guarantee of continuing turmoil and unmitigated violence throughout the world propagated by the U.S. Imperialist machine.
    Sovereignty is relegated to the past; this is indeed the new world order and a guarantee of a world of violence and lawlessness; welcome to the real world.
    The real question is; how will you deal with it?
    This will be the deciding factor from now and into the future; are you prepared?
    For my humble opinion; I think not…

  65. Formerly T-Bear permalink
    February 9, 2012

    Spanish Judge found guilty of ordering (wiretapping) surveillance of attorney/accused by the Spanish Supreme Court and banned from the legal profession for 11 years. End of career sentence passed down. Large crowds present in support of Baltazar Garzon. The hard political conservatives still own the courts in Spain, the shadow of Fransisco Franco’s reign of terror still in evidence. Two other legal accusations against Garzon still to be decided. End of message.

  66. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 9, 2012

    It sounds like the remnants of Franco’s Fascism still survive to this day, and considering Spain is one of the European countries that will be hardest hit by the austerity that’s being passed out, at least for now although all of Europe will eventually be deeply affected with no exceptions, I would suspect such remnants to blossom once again, and for any gains made in curbing spousal abuse to be quickly undermined and rolled back half a century. In fact, this article from the NYT underscores that it is already happening.

    Spain Struggles to Tackle Domestic Violence

    But efforts to protect women have fallen below expectations. “We are not doing well,” Interior Minister Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba said in October, describing the number of 2010 victims at the time — 58 — as “horrible.”

    To help combat gender violence, Spain overhauled its laws in December 2004 to make it easier for victims to seek legal redress: orders for abusers to stay away from victims were strengthened, and aggressive behavior like issuing death threats was deemed criminal.

    Spanish courts have since passed 145,000 sentences against male aggressors; on average, those convicted have been sentenced to about two years in prison, Ms. Cavanna said. In the past six years, judges also awarded special protection to almost 141,000 women, or 73 percent of the requests.

    But the number of women who have abandoned legal proceedings before a final ruling, generally in physical abuse cases, has soared 46 percent in the past three years.

    Ms. Cavanna noted that one of her clients was still awaiting a ruling 20 months after starting legal action. “Changing laws does not solve the problem of malfunctioning courts,” she said, “nor does it change overnight attitudes in a society where the machismo ideology is still firmly anchored and in which many judges have not come to accept how serious a problem domestic violence is.”

    A wonderful movie by the director Guillermo Del Toro entitled Pan’s Labyrinth does an excellent job of revealing the psychology of Fascist Spain under Franco through the character of Vidal.

    Guillermo Del Toro’s Pan’s Labyrinth

  67. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 9, 2012

    I hate to even mention anything about the U.S. presidential campaigns because it’s such a ridiculous circus, but I thought I would throw this out there since it validates just what a circus it is.

    Obama Changing Tune for Campaign Music

    When President Barack Obama crooned the first line of Al Green’s “Let’s Stay Together” at a fundraiser last month, it turned out to be the prelude for the new soundtrack of his re-election campaign.

    The 1971 hit by Green, who performed at the Jan. 19 event at New York’s Apollo Theater, is an entreaty for patience and forgiveness. It and the other 28 songs on the campaign’s official 2012 playlist, used to set the mood at rallies and speeches, marks a shift in the times and the 50-year-old incumbent’s message.

    In 2008, Obama was promising to “change the world,” and the music he used was an upbeat mix that included soul and Motown hits such Curtis Mayfield’s “Move on Up” and Stevie Wonder’s “Signed, Sealed, Delivered (I’m Yours).”

    With the unemployment rate hovering at more than 8 percent and the partisan divide in Washington hardening, the new list, being released by the campaign today, incorporates a mix of artists, ages and genres with songs that touch upon themes such as will, redemption and comeback.

    The satirical irony is stark, is it not? That Al Green song, which I like by the way, is about a no good, two-timing cheater begging his “woman” not to kick his ass out on the street. You can’t write better satire than that, can you? Sweet Mother of Jesus (apologies to the Atheists…I just always liked that saying)!!

    I vote that one unifying campaign song should be chosen to comprehensively cover the spirit and theme of this latest election farce. It’s this:

    Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun

  68. groo permalink
    February 9, 2012

    MB,

    The spin-doctors use every means, to destroy what is dear to us.
    One way or the other.
    This is not new, it is around us for nearly 100years.

    The methods of propaganda are highly sophisticated nowadays, and is backed by all sorts of psychophysiological means.

    So there quite possibly a race, ‘we’, as a collective of decent human beings can never win .
    At least this would never be a democratic majority, which recognizes their genuine interests , because they are conditioned otherwise.

    ————–
    Re Formerly T-Bear and the Spanish Judge.

    One interesting aspect is, that Spanish and Italian judges and prosecutors are among the boldest in all Europe.

    Why is this?
    I don’t know.

    Not really. It is force and counter-force, based on legality, in this case.

    See this:
    The country of Corrida (bullfight/Spain) now has the most advanced legislation for animal-rights! Who could ever expected that?

  69. Everythings Jake permalink
    February 9, 2012

    “The satirical irony is stark, is it not? That Al Green song, which I like by the way, is about a no good, two-timing cheater begging his “woman” not to kick his ass out on the street. ”

    Obama reminds me of an abuser – promising that it’ll be different this time, lying through his teeth, parsing his language ever so cleverly: e.g., Obama keeps referring to giving everyone “a fair shot” to give the illusion of reference to a “fair deal” which the public believed the Democrats once stood up for.

    Scarecrow at Firedoglake had the best takedown today (on the heels of the atrocious mortgage settlement):

    “The Obama Administration has followed a predictable pattern we now recognize. It has consistently functioned like criminal defense counsel, whose mission is to get their criminal clients, the major corporations and executives who fund their elections, off with no admission of guilt, no forced resignations, and as little harm to their reputation, or that of the counsel, as possible. To do this, they neutralize anyone with an ounce of public purpose in their veins.

    Its role is then to convince the public that whatever you thought or feared was going on in America, and whoever you believed had caused the collapse of America’s economy, caused millions to lose their jobs, their homes and their retirements and continued to loot the country, it’s time to look forward. Because everyone who matters — and that’s not you — now agrees, they say, to function in the public interest, even though it’s a bald face lie, since nothing has changed and the looters and their complicit overseers are still in charge.

    Obama’s people have performed this function for America’s looters over and over again. They did it for Wall Street, the banks, the rich tax evaders, the insurance companies, the oil companies, the gas companies, the coal companies, the CIA, the DoD, and numerous torturers and their legal/policy enablers and associated war criminals in the previous administration.”

  70. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 9, 2012

    The U.S. cancer has fully metastasized; the Maldives have ousted their president in a U.S. condoned coup. Mohamed Nasheed was forced at gun-point to sign a resignation letter.
    Amy Goodman is on it;
    http://www.democracynow.org/

  71. Celsius 233 permalink
    February 9, 2012

    The U.S. cancer has fully metastasized; the Maldives have ousted their president in a U.S. condoned coup. Mohamed Nasheed was forced at gun-point to sign a resignation letter.
    As T-Bear noted; this follows Baltazar Garzon’s ouster and neutralizing, so-to-speak.
    Amy Goodman is on it;
    http://www.democracynow.org/

    I’m beginning to think there’s nothing stupider than the American people and their acquiescence to imperial behavior.
    They seem to share Mr. Magoo’s vision which is short and delusional…

  72. Catfish permalink
    February 9, 2012

    I vote that one unifying campaign song should be chosen to comprehensively cover the spirit and theme of this latest election farce. It’s this:

    No Need For Promises

    Don’t look at Obama with your eyesGaze at him with your heart!

  73. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 10, 2012

    Here’s an excellent and well-balanced article on Baltazar Garzón from the Buenos Aires Herald. He’s an interesting character.

    The persecution of Baltazar Garzón

    This snip jumped out at me because of the cancer metaphor that’s all the rage these days.

    Miguel Bernad, who heads an obscure pro-fascist nongovernment organization called Manos Limpias (Clean Hands) that instigated the current court proceedings by alleging that he abused his powers as a judge, told The Guardian that Garzón is “a cancer inside Spanish justice.”

    As the saying goes, “there can be no peace without justice.” The trial has ended, the defendants have been rendered guilty as charged, and now it’s time for sentencing. Che dispensed with the formalities and got right down to business. The people of Cuba knew who the guilty parties were, and they also knew that if they were allowed to live, those guilty parties, as they always do, would again, if given the chance, engage in the same sadism they practiced prior to being brought to justice. Che did it quickly, with dignity, meaning no torture and no humiliation. He didn’t coddle the demented and perverse scum who had abused the Cuban people for what must have seemed an eternity. There was no pleasure in what he did, it was something that had to be done, and it was done quickly, efficiently, and transparently (in public for all to witness) without all the hypocritical feigning to process and procedure and absent the melodrama.

  74. groo permalink
    February 11, 2012

    Morocco Bama,

    so, what you are arguing for, is two types of justice?

    This is true in an imperfect world as ours.

    But on the other hand, any act toward ‘justice’ has to bring together the two, as in a Hegelian dialectical world.

    Ofcourse we are far from that, and the ugly real world is forcefully marching backwards (habeas corpus), which would make Hegel’s hair stand up, or make him rotate in his grave.

    Anyway, in my somehow twisted view of the world, which You hopefully do not share totally,
    US-Cuban relations are/have ever been, Hegel backwards.
    Rum-Bacardi — Castro/Che. Current dialectical middle-ground: Guantanamo. HaHa!
    Same with Bernard – Garcon.

    “May the force be with You.”
    (absent any consideration of +/- and any such -ahem- minor distractions.)

  75. groo permalink
    February 11, 2012

    btw,

    Hegel the optimist, was a heavy drinker, Schopenhauer, the pessimist, was a sober Purist.

    Schopenhauer:
    ” the biggest follies of all is to ruin one’s health, for whatever it maybe”
    This is somehow puzzling.
    Why stay healthy, if life is a drag? Does not make sense.

    This does not seem to work in all professions. Poets are somehow the other way round.
    Or they are so deep down, that they can only cope with ‘reality’ by some decent drinking, else they would have shot themselves immediately, because being not born is per default better than being born. (eg Hemingway, if we talk about Cuba and such matters.)

    Amen.

  76. groo permalink
    February 11, 2012

    upon further reflection:

    Hemingway/Che is such a such an impressive dichotomy on what is wrong on a global scale, that I cannot resist.

    Hemingway suffered bipolar disorder. Hedonist. Hunter. Addict. Drinker.
    The archetypal US-American.

    Che the asthmatic Humanist Doctor. Fighter.

    Fill in the blanks and take sides.

  77. Morocco Bama permalink
    February 12, 2012

    so, what you are arguing for, is two types of justice?

    Well, I’m not arguing…..just thinking out loud, however, even if I was arguing, I can’t argue “for” types of Justice that already exist. In otherwords, from your statement, I infer that you mean to say that I am putting forward a different brand of Justice than is currently being practiced. My observation is that there are already several brands of Justice practiced currently, and the possibilities for methods of practicing the “attempted” rendering of Justice are innumerable.

    Considering that, perhaps “Justice”, the concept and the linguistics used to describe said concept, are an impossibility from the outset because ideas of this concept of “Justice”, when brought into the realm of the specific case, and/or cases, are highly relative, and so when “Justice” is implemented in that context, one person’s perceived “Justice” is often another person’s perceived “Injustice.”

    So, where does that lead us? Some would say that to couch the idea of “Justice” in such a light is to engage in moral relativism, and perhaps it is, but does that make that line of thought suddenly invalid and no longer worthy of further exploration? I would hope not, because moral relativism is not the only possible implication of this line of thought.

    The way I see it, currently there is “Justice” for the well-to-do, the Elite, The Plutocracy, that is very distinct from the “Justice” that is administered to all the rest. Certainly, it’s the same system of “Justice”, but it’s the navigation of that system that renders the two very distinct outcomes of “Justice” depending on where you reside on the social stratum. The Plutocratic Elite, with few exceptions, have the resources to navigate the current “Justice” system in order to ensure that said system, which they have crafted, will render positive outcomes for them even when they are obviously guilty of crimes charged, and crimes not charged. The same can not be said for those, meaning the majority of us, who do not have the means to navigate this system of “Justice”, and therefore, this system(the creation of which we have had no say in) navigates us.

    My interpretation of what Che did was to circumvent this antiquated system of “Justice” in order to remove the poison of the Old System from the yet unbridled potential of the Revolution. The scum that was dispatched by Che with his summary executions were saboteurs and torturers looking to undermine the blood sacrifice made by the passionate people of Cuba in throwing off the yoke of Plutocracy. He didn’t send them to a gulag like Stalin so they could be physically and psychically tormented and die a horrible, torturous death. He ended their despicable lives quickly, efficiently and transparently without resorting to dramatics. In that sense, it was humane. The people of Cuba knew who these creeps were. They had to suffer them for decades, even longer. To engage in process and procedure that was a relic of the system these executed sadists supported and protected, would have been hypocrisy, not to mention regressive.

    Whatever “Justice” is, if you can buy your way out of accountability and responsibility for your actions and its effects on the community at large, than it surely cannot claim to be a system that renders this elusive concept called “Justice.”

    Che understood that there was still a cadre of Dathans about, attempting to sow discord, and create a counter-insurgency. He removed them from the soil so that a new crop could flourish, unencumbered by the pestilence that had failed all other crops before it.

  78. February 12, 2012

    So, I wonder if Hedges is still going to be applauding the Greeks or, are they now in line for a stern lecture about hypermasculinity?

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