The Terror of Liberals in a Time of Insurrection
It took me a while to understand the reaction to the attack on the Capitol. At this point only five people have been killed, no actual Reps or Senators were harmed, and so on. The response, however, has been absolutely savage. If it is up to Liberals, everyone involved will go to prison, and Reps and Senators will be impeached. (It probably isn’t up to them on the latter.)
Biden is talking about creating a new law aimed at ideologically-driven violence, which will be Patriot Act II, and which will be used far more frequently and far more intensely against BLM and Antifa than against the right-wing. Among other things, it’ll be a tool for law enforcement, and law enforcement is right-wing or neoliberal, as are prosecutors.
As with 9/11, the reaction is being driven by FEAR. Terror, even. Those who have something in the US realize they could lose it all, and those who have little but are keeping their heads above water, realize that they could have those heads shoved below water and held there.
It’s the fear of a COUP, of insurrection, of the government being overthrown. Liberals now really believe it can happen in the United States. The attack finally broke through their shell of, “Oh, we can fuck over 90 percent of the population and put 99 percent of the population in fear and it won’t backfire! Oh no!”
They now understand that their political order is in danger, and not eternal. It is not “The End of History,” their version of political-economy is not eternal and everlasting, nor obviously the good and right and everyone knows it and agrees.
And it’s those ungrateful right-wingers, the ones they’ve been pandering to for 40 years. The nerve!
Now let’s first point out that this is TERROR of a COUP.
A coup.
The US has launched dozens of coups around the world. The US is the world leader in coups. The US overthrows governments regularly, including democratic ones.
My overseas friends are having a great time with this.
Why did the coup in DC fail? Because the is no American Embassy in DC to provide logistical support.
…
Why was there a coup in the US this year? Because travel restrictions meant they couldn’t do one overseas!
You get the idea.
So, if you are terrified of this attempted coup, and what will happen if a future right-wing coup succeeds, you now understand what those in dozens of other countries have gone through and those in a hundred countries or so fear.
Get it? Coups are terrifying and bad, especially when they overthrow a democratically-elected government.
THE US IS THE BAD GUY.
American-backed coups were and are an act of evil aggression. Biden will continue trying to overthrow Venezela and Iran, learning nothing, and Americans, learning nothing from this experience, will continue to support his efforts.
What’s happening in the US right now is that FEAR is controlling people’s reactions. Fear is probably appropriate, because as best I can tell, there are going to be similiar actions at almost all of the 50 state capitols. In Pennsylvania, Republicans refused to seat a Democratic Senator.
The US government has a legitimacy crisis. Something like 20 to 25 percent of voters think that the government is illegitimate, that the election was stolen, and that the Democratic party is illegitimate. Democrats feel the same about Republicans.
Twenty to twenty five percent is enough to sustain an insurrection more or less indefinitely, though somewhat below the threshold need to win a serious one.
The US is in for a bad period. People who genuinely think that an election was stolen and government is illegitimate, will do something about that and feel completely justified. Massive de-platforming and censorship of their views is going to be seen as confirmation of their world-view — that the media has been lying to them (which it has, but not about the election), and will not quell the insurrection.
Welcome to the Hell you imposed on other countries, USA. I didn’t want this to happen, even though, honestly, as a country, the US deserves it (though yes, many individual Americans don’t). Perhaps, instead of letting terror drive you to be even greater monsters, you might learn from this.
For those of you who are Christian, you might meditate on “those who live by the sword, die by the sword,” others on the fact that when you treat people badly, both you and they tend to become monsters. Those who are abused become abusers at a much higher rate than those who weren’t. (For a country that epitomizes this in obvious and sad ways, see Israel and its treatment of Palestinians.)
I reiterate my message of the last 12 or so years, that the US is in for bad times. With every year that has gone by, the time to get out or prepare for those bad times has decreased.
The US now has the necessary conditions for a low grade insurrection. How bad it will be, or if it will fizzle out, I don’t know, but the conditions exist.
Take that into account, and remember, the right-wing militias include a lot of eliminationists. They want to kill left-wingers, Jews, Blacks and “race traitors” in vast, vast numbers. If they ever get the chance, don’t bet on them not doing so, because if you’re wrong, it’s the last bet you’ll lose.
It’s also true, of course, that this could be a cyclical thing that doesn’t hit the worst excesses possible in the cycle and subsides. I certainly hope so, for a variety of reasons. Just understand that right now we don’t know that it will subside.
The next four years, at least, are going to be UGLY. Be prepared.
All the content here is free, but subscriptions and donations do help, a lot.
Comments are closed.
The word “Nazi” isn’t terribly meaningful when you’re talking about people who are likely to be funded, albeit covertly, by supporters of the Israeli apartheid state.
I haven’t bothered to read much about the alleged activities of the Capitol hill riot, but overall it seems significantly less violent and calculated than the coups that US, under both Republicans and Democrats, have supported abroad. It’s also not substantially different from what several state capitols have experienced for months. So your equating their actions as particularly being the pale and outside scope of internet based dialog is unconvincing.
It is wrong to associate Trump with nazis. For that, Trump would have to say in the face of the violence of white supremacists that there are good people on both sides, or suck up to the Proud Boys and tell them to stand down but stand by. His supporters would have to wear Camp Auschwitz and 6 million are not enough slogans on their clothing as they attacked the Capitol. He would have to be a hero of the Boogaloo Boys. You know that sort of thing.
Not every Trump supporter is a Nazi, but every Nazi in America is a Trump supporter.
Astrid, I wouldn’t expect you to be convinced by the obvious.
Money and power. Dirty politics for the sake of money and power involves weaving webs of deceptions. So yeah, I tend to distrust anybody who tries to obfuscate things which should be obvious., like my mama telling me to never march with Nazis.
Re: the problem of designing a replacement system for the broken one we have and why it is so difficult? The main problem is hierarchical organization. 2500 years ago, Plato tells us that fascism always follows democracy. Democracy is a band aid for hierarchical societies. In hierarchies there are always “betters” who never suffer during a famine in the way the little people suffer. Democracy is designed and imposed to ensure the elites suffer in other ways (we won’t vote for your fat posterior, you let us starve, you lose). Democracy is a system to ensure the elites are interested in what the little people think. We here in the US obviously do not live in a democracy, and haven’t for some time. Ian has mentioned this several times: the current system is set up so they never feel the effects of anything. That’s by design. We can all agree on this, at least.
After the “fall”, this cycle of organizing a “new” hierarchical society begins, then a famine hits or similar type of disaster where little people suffer or die, the elites won’t help, democracy is born, the elites answer to someone again, eventually the elites find a way to subvert democracy, a fascist arises, the elites fight amongst themselves, no one “wins”, and the whole cycle begins again. Every democracy (required because, ya know, hierarchy) is eventually subverted to again disconnect the elites from any feedback. Capitalism by its nature requires a hierarchy, reinforces hierarchical thinking (I have a late model car, and you don’t. I’m better, more important, than you). This is why this society is also so spiritually empty … without meaning to life beyond acquiring things which never, ever, fill the void … lather, rinse, repeat.
It’s almost impossible to imagine a society without a hierarchy, just as it is almost impossible to imagine a society in which women are treated as equals (and please don’t tell me we are.) We’ve only been allowed to vote for 100 years and to read for a few hundred more in Western culture.
So yes, it’s almost impossible to imagine a non-hierarchical, fully egalitarian society. Some of these societies still survive today, although they are in significant decline. They are usually referred to (by Western Europeans, Asians, etc.) as “savages”. They limit possessions, and personal ownership, which is the sticking point for greedy wannabe millionaires. And there is a very valid point whether such a cultural organization is even possible at current population levels.
Yet, the best possible scenario is still non-hierarchical, egalitarian, and democratic (by desire, not necessity).
The point being, don’t just “think globally, act locally” but “think long-term, act short-term”. And this thinking should be focused on what really matters: breaking this cycle. Then we can act in a way in which we might preserve such thinking.
nihil obstet
“while inflammatory nonsense will produce gushers of equal nonsense.”
At times I wonder whether a thoughtful comment triggers a myriad of AI bots to generate prolific conversations of nothing but nonsense to immediately bury the nugget of truth and restore the thought matrix. Someone would say “unicorns do not exist” and this would immediately trigger bot discussions in pairs and in groups: “uh, unicorns pollute our political discourse with their excrement and only mermaid can save us” and then “but no mermaids are complete socialists, we need pro business unicorns”, “unicorns want to dictate to mermaids what they can do with their bodies”…
But the true is probably that the flow of nonsense is the same overwhelming all the time ocean over which you are drifting and drifting away…
I think of Dwight D Eisenhower, who famously said in his farewell address:
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
Yet… a interstate highway system for military transport first and commerce second? The replacement of a democratically elected Guatemalan government with a dictatorship favorable to American fruit companies? Expensive Titan missile bases which went obsolete in two years?
Please explain Astrid.
Trinity
“Plato tells us that fascism always follows democracy.”
Where does Plato says this? pardon my curiosity, thank you.
Another 4,000 died from covid yesterday. We are up to 382,000 dead. We’ll be at 400,000 dead by Inauguration Day, a week away. Two impeachments, tens of thousands of lies, daily scandals and outrages, an insurrection, a greatly weakened country, and 400,000 dead: this is the Trump legacy.
Worse than the Trump legacy is tens of millions who worship him as a messenger from God. Maybe the message is “Never let a psychopath attain great power”.
Plato was anti-democratic. Socrates described by Plato favored ideally rule by a philosopher king or more practically an aristocracy. Socrates thought democracy would be followed by tyranny.
To be filed under too little too late, in a short written statement from Trump released today to FoxNews:
“In light of reports of more demonstrations, I urge that there must be NO violence, NO lawbreaking and NO vandalism of any kind. That is not what I stand for, and it is not what America stands for. I call on ALL Americans to help ease tensions and calm tempers. Thank You”
So everything’s good. All fixed. That insurrection thing was just a bad dream. Everybody can go home now.
All your recounting of GOP and Trump supporter some would be meaningful if they deviate from substantially from the norm since 9/11. Otherwise it sounds to me (who has given up on both side of the uniparty and US’s ability to affect positive
change at home or abroad), like two groups of sports fans eagerly denigrating the other side as the worst people. Even on COVID, Trump is awful but not uniquely awful, as the performance of India, Brazil, UK, Sweden, etc shows. And remember that plenty died of AIDS under Fauci and Reagan/BushI. Your analysis would be more interesting if it didn’t just start and end with”orange man bad”.
If Trump is a Nazi, he is a damn strange one, inasmuch as he can almost certainly tell you what netanyahu’s dick taste like. See for instance, the new US embassy in Jerusalem.
@Stephen,
Somebody or other is making this comment section unreadable? Well, as Astrid said, God made a scroll button.
Hugh
Where did Plato say that? I have read some Plato (not much may be) and I did not see it. I want to go to the part that miss and read it again.
Thank you
You all are outraged by essentially the same thing that Trumpers have been doing all of last summer against state capitols, which was bad but the national Democrats had no interest in condemning them or helping the state governors with their situation. They’re actions that could and should have been contained by proper policing, but wasn’t.
Meanwhile, Biden is signaling a great expansion of the surveillance state, which I find substantially more dangerous than a differently placed riot that you all had little problem with last summer.
Astrid.
Why Trumps covid stats outperform India, Brazil, and Russia combined should be obvious. Why Sweden’s covid stats outperform Norway, Denmark and Finland combined should be obvious. That conservatives are better at walking in lockstep and progressives better at debating should be obvious. Why faith based conservatives can be driven to cult-like reasoning should be obvious. Finally, why “orange man bad” should be obvious. These things have nothing whatsoever to do with “sports teams”, the fandom from which should be obvious.
Any mind which cannot discern the obvious is disordered and/or immature.
For gods sake DMC, just because Trump cares nothing for Nazis doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable of using them for his own purposes.
It’s obvious to me that these things are bad. What’s not so obvious to me is why you think your team is meaningfully different. And if they are not meaningfully different, why fixate on the one bad and support the other bad?
It’s not exactly clear what to be a “Nazi” means nowadays, unless a cosplay enthusiast or an FBI agent, but … the costumed fatties behind Charlottesville (Richard Spencer et al) do not like Trump at all.
From book VIII of Plato’s Republic:
“see how sensitive the citizens become; they chafe impatiently at the least touch of authority, and at length, as you know, they cease to care even for the laws, written or unwritten; they will have no one over them.
Yes, he said, I know it too well.
Such, my friend, I said, is the fair and glorious beginning out of which springs tyranny.
Glorious indeed, he said. But what is the next step?
The ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy; the same disease magnified and intensified by liberty overmasters democracy—the truth being that the excessive increase of anything often causes a reaction in the opposite direction; and this is the case not only in the seasons and in vegetable and animal life, but above all in forms of government.
True.
The excess of liberty, whether in States or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery.
Yes, the natural order.
And so tyranny naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme form of liberty?
As we might expect.”
As we have been seeing for more than four years, Trump has no interest in consistency. Pursuing an outlandishly pro-Israel policy, on the one hand, and sucking up to anti-semitic white supremacists is kid stuff for him. I mean this is a guy who is supposed to be for the working man and whose only major accomplishment in office was a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich.
Some might see Trump as being the useful idiot of Chabad-Lubavitach. But then Jared looks so neat and harmless.
What Nazi means in modern day US is far from clear, both by people who might self identify as such (not sure they really exist outside prisons and biker gangs) and especially people on the internet calling the other side the argument Nazis.
I will note that Obama administration, with the support of the vast majority of national Democratic party politicians and chattering class, did support Ukrainian nationalists who espoused ideas pretty similar to Hitler’s original flavor. I’m sure Hugh and company wagged their fingers at some point at this action, but they continue to support the DNC team afterwards.
So again, I am not getting the difference of why one side is so monstrous and your side is regrettable but must be supported. I happen to think both sides are monstrous being redemption. I don’t have a solution (other than not have kids and enjoy the time i have the best I can) but I’m not going to pretend the solution is calling anonies on the internet Nazis.
Ian’s comments, and especially the closer, are relevant and dead on as usual. And I note the closer was not “Orange Man Bad” like a Trumpist claimed, it was to “be prepared” for the “UGLY” times ahead, which many of us have already been working on. (I should be out of my expensive urban center and in a clean, safer rural space in 6 months– I assume I’m safe for that long to transition, but guess we will see.)
Yes, “chickens coming home to roost” for the Empire right now, the frontier is closing in, it won’t be so much us killing the Venezuelan & Iranian “savages” who dare to think they can run there own societies, as each other. Even some of the MSM note that Herr Drumpf (but, as the more sophisticated know, every bit as much a symptom of the Obama-era NeoLiberal vacuity and NOPEy Change, as an additional accelerent, literally) has led us to the brink of something like a Civil War.
Trinity’s overview of political change I thought is solid, and as usual Hugh’s comments are clarifying and helpful. I’m going to disagree with Che Pasa, I think the Congress critters ARE very privileged and very far from the Precariat, my sense is that most of them are upper-level bourgeois, either spouses of or themselves business owners, and comfortable enough to want to manage their lessers’ affairs and, oh well, if they benefit a bit economically thereby, that’s the system, right? There may be exceptions in some of the Tea Party/Trump caucus (I stumbled across militia-gal Boebert’s criminal rap sheet today) who are the same kind of trash who supported Mussolini and German fascism. They know no better than volkish culture, and that’s how they get elected.
To Ian’s bigger point– I listened to hours of the Congressional “debate” today, and at times it actually rose to the level not to need the air quotes. (Not many, admittedly, but more than the usual 0%.) I said a lot to folks when Covid kicked in, “Shit got real.” And I think even for the Ruling Class, Shit Got Real with the gibbering QAnon goons howling for blood, including Mike Pence’s, just hundreds of feet from where they were guarded. There were numerous non-white Reps openly noting Trump’s white supremacist and irrational violent drives . . . .the split in the RePugs was fascinating. You had the ones calling on their (fake) opposition Dems to “unify”, pretend the planned lynchings never happened and hold Trump to no account, which pretty much all the Dems deviated from the usual script and refused to do. As to the QAnon crew, we got to hear Gym (molester) Jordan, Matt Gaetz and that ilk calling for more blood, with blood in their face. It’s all because Maxine Waters said Repugs should be publicly shamed for making brown children orphans and throwing them in cages, our fee-fees were hurt and you Elitists (guilty as charged, but pot and kettle) ignored our hurt!! Sarah Huckabee was kicked out of a restaurant, and that is true fascism!!
Both political parties are dead husks. I keep expecting them to die, yet as Real as Shit now is, they survive through apathy and American consumers (there are few if any American “citizens”) self-accepted dis-empowerment and fat-assed media consuming laziness. But I think Trump HAS finally toxically split the RePugs. The base is clearly all QAnon, Golladay-level worshipers of the Leader, but even the big corporate PACs seem to be realizing that funding these morons might not work out any better than it did for the 30s German bourgeoisie.
I fully expect Biden should and will ruin the Dem brand beyond even what the empty, soothing Obama could paper over, by doing nothing to ameliorate the widespread economic and cultural collapse that Covid and Globalism have created. I hear the Dems may (?) throw some symbolic scraps to the hoi polloi early on, like $2000 checks and forgiveness of some of the (Biden-generated) permanent college debt for their young voters. The question being whether in 2 years that will result in votes and Dem continuation? Color me skeptical.
Anyway, until shit really breaks down much further there will be no actual Left policies, the government’s purpose will remain to prop up the FIRE sector, business, etc. same as it ever was. But since none of the swag goes to the increasingly precarious, miserable masses, eventually some violence and at least the prospect of US break-up or (counter?) revolutions rules.
“Nazi” is the adult term for “boogeyman”. To the people who use it most, it simply means monster. They don’t know enough history to understand what it is. It has been incorporated into mainstream propaganda because Nazis were the enemy in the last major war that the U.S. won. The story of that war carefully cuts out the Soviet Union which has a better claim to having won the war than the Western allies. Nazi has become shorthand for “someone the American rulers want to destroy”.
Well, nazi also means things like white supremacist, hate the blacks, the browns, and the Jews, ultranationalist, and leader cult.
Willy, I never said he was incapable of using Nazis, just that he wasn’t really one himself. A reactionary populist nationalist certainly. That he got way too much money from Sheldon adelson to be considered anything like a Nazi. Of course there’s one group who’s all about the lebensraum for the Volk that he supports unhesitatingly.
Hi Hugh,
That’s Jowett.
Here’s Allan Bloom:
“The same disease” I said “as that which arose in the oligarchy and destroyed it, arises also in this regime – but bigger and stronger as a result of the license – and enslaves democracy. And, really, anything that is done to excess is likely to provoke a corresponding great change in the opposite direction – in seasons, in plants, in bodies, and, in particular, not least in regimes”
“that’s probable” he said
“Too much freedom seems to change into nothing but too much slavery, both for private man and city”
…..
“Well, then, I said “tyranny is probably established out of no other regime than democracy, I suppose – the greatest and most savage slavery out of extreme of freedom”.
Sounds like he is talking about a pendulum that swings between freedom and slavery and democracy and tyranny. If we take “the regime” as a thinking of Plato, then Book VII and beginning of book VIII suggest that Plato was a communist and his purpose was to discredit all other regimes. The city must be ruled in the interest of all citizens by those who feel no desire for material possessions and only enjoy intellectual pursuits.
Anyway, that was a reason dust off my copy of the regime.
Ah, well — there it is from the horse’s mouth. Nazi doesn’t mean things like totalitarian control of society, ideological suppression of speech, corporations and government working in lockstep, locking up your racial and ideological enemies in concentration camps. No, it just means who-whom: if you’re white, you’re a Nazi.
And Hugh, I know that truth burns your mouth and ears like acid, but Trump saying there were “good people on both sides in Charlottesville” is just the simple truth. Plenty of good people (probably most of them) oppose communist filth desecrating our historical monuments.
BOO, it seems like yesterday that “Nazi” meant you were socialist. Is Dinesh back in jail again?
It’s obvious to me that these things are bad. What’s not so obvious to me is why you think your team is meaningfully different. And if they are not meaningfully different, why fixate on the one bad and support the other bad?
So what team do you think I’m on? Do you even care? I fixate on the “bad” because it’s gone way past being the more ruthless and street smart side. Steve Bannon correctly accused the DNC “of having pillow fights” while his side “goes for the head shot”. Did he even have to say that? Isn’t it common knowledge how “unity” and “conciliatory” the worthless DNC is? But that was yesterday. These days the GOP is trending into fascist territory with the DNC moving into their former “center right” position, because of “unity” and a little corporate donor coin I suppose.
I believe in loyal opposition, an intelligently loyal opposition. Devils advocates. I grow tired of brainwashed idiocy. Do you need me to point out examples, of this brainwashed idiocy of which I speak?
Meh. The Democrats are a lot further along than just occupying the portion of the Overton Windows formerly inhabited by 1980s Republicans. They’re a creative source for suffering and bad policy, working for exactly the same paymasters are the GOP.
And maybe I’m wrong here, but the group that shout right wing troll at first provocation are also the ones who equate non-support of Democrats come election time with helping Trump.
As long as they’re not too disruptive, I like seeing comments from those with other opinions. I don’t agree with them, but they’re conveying views shared by many IRL. Knowledge about them learnt here helps me assess their sort in real life. And seeing self proclaimed progressives resort to ad hominems and suffering TDS meltdowns, while not recognizing that their team is pretty much just as bad, just rubs me the wrong way.
I may be feeling a bit of extra charity as Trump decided on this stupid stunt in lieu of invading Iran or sinking a Chinese cruiser in the South China Sea. I never expect Trump or Republicans or Democrats to do a good thing. The best I can hope for is that Trump fumbles and fail to do a bad thing correctly, though I know he did plenty of bad with bipartisan support. I harbor no such hope of ineptitude by Normals and their merry band of neoliberal economists and warmongers.
astrid – “As long as they’re not too disruptive, I like seeing comments from those with other opinions. I don’t agree with them, but they’re conveying views shared by many IRL. Knowledge about them learnt here helps me assess their sort in real life. And seeing self proclaimed progressives resort to ad hominems and suffering TDS meltdowns, while not recognizing that their team is pretty much just as bad, just rubs me the wrong way.”
Me too. These days I’m grateful to the crew at Rising for being an oasis with a format designed to moderate that kind of thing. I like hearing from Saagar who has contacts in Republican circles all over D.C. and I am glad that Krystal calls out Democrats like Hillary from the war crimes wing of the party.
But even before Rising showed up it had gotten to the point that I had the World Socialist and American Conservative websites bookmarked because I found important stories on both of them that were not getting talked about anywhere else. Since then, of course, Taibbi has become the go-to guy to explain what shifted in the media business model to cause the changes I had noticed in my own reading.
If covid and its endlessly mutating variations become a permanent part of life that will work against the Democrats in two years and four years. Biden had a razor-thin win that seems like it was based on the hope that he would manage the contagion better than Trump did.
I am certain that he will do that in a large, splashy way, but if no clear final victory against the thing is possible, it will be interesting to see how the people who market his team handle it. How will they persuade us that he is doing the best job possible fighting covid if there is never a decisive victory against it?
@someofparts,
If millions of militant backwardite stupidite MAGAtard virus-ridden corona-leper germ spreaders insist on spreading the disease as far and wide as they can with their No Mask Freedom rebellion, then it will be impossible to control the disease. Which is exactly what the MAGAtards hope to achieve, on purpose, so we can all join their Jonestown Trumpie Death Cult.
Now that I think about it, THAT may be the Insurgency that Ian Welsh was warning about. Millions of vicious evil MAGAtard plague spreaders spreading the corona virus around as hard and fast as possible, in hopes that some of it reaches and kills the objects of their hatred.
Let us pray that the MAGA mob at the capitol spread coronavid among all of themselves and let us hope that they all get coronavid and survive . . . with long tail covid for the rest of their incurably pain and misery racked lives.
And let us hope that the Mask Discipline States, working together with a Fed Gov which respects the Freedom of the MAGA Death Cultists to suffer and die alone by themselves, can at least stamp out the virus within their own territory.
Biden/DNC democracy/plutocracy bad.
Trump/GOP authoritarianism/psychopathy plutocracy worse.
There are no easy answers these days. But there’s still the truth.
I am not at all convinced that the Democrats are the lesser evil. Biden and his appointees speak to that. Maybe the more orderly evil, the better branded evil, the evil that lets people who claim to be good liberals sleep at night and stop paying attention to the evil perpetrated in their name. I prefer the ugliness of Trump and his followers, they let their ugliness and evilness hang out in the open, for all to see.
The 2.0 Patriot Act bill for domestic terrorism was submitted by Adam Schiff in August, 2019. I wonder how the Dems knew they would need it?
@Astrid,
” I will note that Obama administration, with the support of the vast majority of national Democratic party politicians and chattering class, did support Ukrainian nationalists who espoused ideas pretty similar to Hitler’s original flavor. I’m sure Hugh and company wagged their fingers at some point at this action, but they continue to support the DNC team afterwards.”
The thing I notice is that there were/are some people, including on these threads, who wag their fingers at those of us who don’t wag our fingers hard enough at Putin for saving East Ukrainians and Crimeans from the Hotsie Totsie Banderazi Nazis who were coming to kill them all.
@Linda Amick,
Probably some Democratic lawmakers thought they would need it ever since Charlottesville.