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Hillary Clinton Is a Monstrous Politician

2016 March 23
by Ian Welsh

Ok.  I’ve had enough. Let’s speak truthfully about Hillary Clinton:

She voted for the Iraq war and defended that vote for years.

She was a primary driver behind the Libyan war.

She was involved in the cluster-fuck that is Syria.

She was for the “welfare reform” and three strikes laws during her husband’s administration. She actively spoke for them, thus, she is culpable.

She opposes the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall.

She has blamed homeowners for the financial crisis.

Henry Kissinger, a man who has a great deal of responsibility for two genocides was her adviser while she was Secretary of State, and he is her personal friend.

Hillary Clinton supported the Iraq sanctions which killed half a million Iraqi children or so.

She has compared Putin to Hitler.

It is a fact that Clinton is a bad person, who has championed policies which have killed a lot of people, and which have impoverished many others.

No Realpolitik case can be made for these policies: They have clearly made the world a more dangerous place, vastly increasing failed states and terrorism. These policies were unethical both in and of themselves, and massive suffering have been direct results.

I have been told by people who know her that she is a wonderful, concerned friend, and very warm in small groups.

I care about that as much as I do about the fact that Americans thought that George W. Bush was “someone who they wanted to have a beer with.”

Clinton, as a politician, has supported terrible policies. Moreover, she has not learned from these policy failures. For example, after Iraq, she supported Libya.

I am tired of the “lesser evil” argument; but it is not clear to me that Clinton is the lesser evil.


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81 Responses
  1. paintedjaguar permalink
    March 23, 2016

    It’s not as if we are just talking about just one person and her personal flaws. What’s being promoted is a Clinton Restoration. Looking at the effects of almost 30 years of NewDem Clintonism, including the encouragement of Republican extremism and the passage of right-wing policies, no it isn’t at all clear that Hillary is the lesser evil in the long term. Or even in the short term, come to that.

  2. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 23, 2016

    Well, this should be entertaining. 🙄

  3. V. Arnold permalink
    March 23, 2016

    I couldn’t agree more.;A monster and worse; so why is she doing so well in the campaign?

  4. EGrise permalink
    March 23, 2016

    And that’s the thing, isn’t it? That aside from the name calling and the ethno-religious demagoguery, no one has demonstrated to my satisfaction that HRC actually *is* the lesser evil when compared to Trump — because she has a track record of evil that no reasonable person can overlook.

  5. EGrise permalink
    March 23, 2016

    I’d guess a few reasons she’s doing well in the campaign so far include the backing of the party establishment and the corporate media, name recognition, identity politics tribalism and anti-Trump scaremongering.

    But wait for the general: I think Trump will tear her to pieces.

  6. EGrise permalink
    March 23, 2016

    And tangentially, if you haven’t read this indictment from John Pilger at Counterpunch you really should.

  7. tony permalink
    March 24, 2016

    If Hillary does win the presidency, I can’t see it becoming anything but a disaster. After Trump is done with her, both the left and the right will despise Hillary. The liberal center probably won’t respect her after.

    The only thing she could do after the election is start a war, because anything else would get obstructed. Although America might be running out of allies and credibility to conduct an effective war after all the lies have been laid bare. Even Europe has wavered after the US destabilization caused a refugee crisis.

  8. March 24, 2016

    Right on partner…, write on.

  9. March 24, 2016

    Even if she were the “lesser evil,” the last 25 years show that the lesser evil and the greater evil work hand-in-hand.

    It pays well.
    ~

  10. March 24, 2016

    Sanders is winning with the people you’d expect him to win with, and losing with the people you’d expect him to lose with. His job this time was to figure out how to win with people he would be likely to lose with. And he didn’t. And when you read the form of teeth-gnashing that his supporters engage in, it’s not hard to guess why:

    I’d guess a few reasons she’s doing well in the campaign so far include the backing of the party establishment and the corporate media, name recognition, identity politics tribalism and anti-Trump scaremongering.

    The comments about “identity politics tribalism”, “genitals and gun control” (as one notable Tweetyperson hint hint put it, apparently) seem to typify the reaction to the fact that Sanders is not able to reach particular key primary voter constituencies. But, why would anyone be surprised by that? Those voters can presumably smell the contempt for aspects of politics that they certainly don’t think are peripheral or deserve to sit on the back burner behind student debt charts.

    Take blacks, for instance. After the election of Obama, blacks have lived through a decade of hardly-veiled racist vilification of a picture-perfect example of a mainstream president. In that emotional narrative, who do you think has the advantage? The primary election of Obama’s former rival, but someone no less hated by the Republican right and someone who represents an identity-political rude gesture in the direction of those people? Or the primary election of someone whose supporters represent (to many) a more palatable version of placating the concerns of “poor white males”, the people whom black voters are the least interested in placating?

    And as for the subjective experience of blacks on the economic front, I got this link for ya, from some people at NC:

    Perhaps a better explanation for Mr. Sanders’s divergent performance is that while African-Americans and white working-class Democrats are experiencing broadly similar economic trends, they interpret them differently.

    A New York Times/CBS News poll conducted last week found that African-Americans rated the economy as good by a ratio of about four to one, versus about two to one for white Democrats and an even narrower margin for white Democrats without a college degree. A Times/CBS News poll in December found that, relative to two years earlier, roughly three times as many African-Americans said their family’s financial situation was better as said it was worse, while Democrats without a college degree were almost evenly split on this question.

    Geoff Garin, a strategist for Mrs. Clinton’s 2008 campaign who currently polls for Priorities USA Action, a pro-Clinton “super PAC,” posited that for a more economically marginal group like African-Americans, the unemployment rate — which has declined significantly for all racial groups in recent years — carries more importance than growth in incomes and certain assets, which have been slower to recover. For whites, even working-class whites, whose jobless rate is substantially lower than that for African-Americans, the latter took on comparatively more importance.

    “The major source of economic anxiety for working-class white men is not whether they have a job tomorrow,” Mr. Garin said, “it’s that they still haven’t had their personal recovery. Their recovery is about assets and income.” For African-Americans, on the other hand, “you don’t take job growth for granted.”

    So if you’re upset that Sanders is at a disadvantage, you have two choices: be angry at primary voters and talk as though one group of them (white millenials) is pitted against the other groups or understand how it is that a progressive candidate must position him/herself to hold together enough of a coalition.

  11. Tom permalink
    March 24, 2016

    When the FSA finally wins the war, it will be no thanks to Obama. Assad gassing children wasn’t enough to intervene, but IS threatening oil interests in KRG and beheading two Americans in retaliation was?

    Well the FSA no longer gives a shit anymore what Obama has to say. Assad is running out of troops and even Hezbollah is scraping the bottom of the Barrel while the FSA continues to receive fresh recruits from the Refugee Camps and now have the means to shoot down the barrel bombers.

    FSA’s demands at Geneva were:

    1. Removal and trial of the Assad Regime
    2. Removal and trial of the SDF and IS Terrorists
    3. A single Syrian State

    The war won’t end unless these goals are met and they will continue the war till they are met no matter how long it takes.

  12. Tom permalink
    March 24, 2016

    On the topic:

    Bernie simply failed to get the right message out to Black Voters.

    Trump knows how to message and so does Hillary.

    If Bernie doesn’t hit the ball out of the park in the next few big states, he is done.

    If its Hillary or Trump, I’m going with Trump. At least he will do less damage to the world.

  13. hvd permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Tom:

    Instead of trying to divert every conceivable thread as FSA’s official online spokesperson, why don’t you just form your own website to which we can turn when we want to get the FSA’s viewpoint. Or do you have one and just come here to be annoying. If you do why don’t you just give us a link.

  14. hvd permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Oops I missed your rare marginally on topic entry. I guess you have to in order to maintain credibility.

  15. EGrise permalink
    March 24, 2016

    FWIW, I was in fact referring to feminist and traditional liberal identity (“genitals and gun control”), not so much racial. I think that is much more complex and nuanced than I’m able to get into in a comment ATM.

    One thing I deliberately omitted was her campaigning ability. I think she’s pretty terrible at it (unlike her husband) and I think without the backing of the establishment she’d be doing a lot worse.

    I’m not an apologist for Sanders, who has his own problems. But I think the aftermath of his loss (I’m pretty sure HRC has enough advantages to win) is going to be the most interesting thing about the Dem primary, lots of directions for that to go.

  16. S Brennan permalink
    March 24, 2016

    The media arguments against Trump, at their best, are based on future conjecture. This from a group of people with an unmatched record of failure in such endeavors.

    The media arguments for Hillary, at their best, are based on past amnesia. This from a group of people with an unmatched record of success in such endeavors.

    While I am still hoping Sanders will pull it out, but damn, the guy won’t punch, I suspect Bruce Dixon has been right all along.

  17. March 24, 2016

    By the way, Trump can neocon with the best of ’em. You know, like at AIPAC?

    http://time.com/4267058/donald-trump-aipac-speech-transcript/

    Just FYI.

  18. markfromireland permalink
    March 24, 2016

    @ Seamus whenever I contemplate Sanders’ campaign I’m reminded strongly of the this he talks a good game but as you say he won’t even attempt to climb out let alone try to land a punch. But then neither has any other vaguely leftish movement or politician in the US during my lifetime and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

    Your comments about the people with unmatched records of both types are sadly all too accurate.

    mfi

  19. BlizzardOfOz permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Mandos – irony alert? Immediately after your long post explaining that politicians need to signal to identities outside their natural base of support, you criticize Trump for doing exactly that.

  20. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 24, 2016

    If its Hillary or Trump, I’m going with Trump. At least he will do less damage to the world.

    Really?

  21. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Until you find the grit to fight for those who come after us.

    “After all these years of leading the fight, you seem very much alive.”

    “Indeed. I doubt the same can be said for many of his followers.”

  22. nihil obstet permalink
    March 24, 2016

    This has been a dispiriting election season. People that I have known for a long time, that I did anti-war marches with, that I’ve demonstrated with in our state house, that in short have been active dissenters say, “I like what Sanders says, but you have to be realistic.” I just want to scream, “Well, REALISTICALLY, what the hell have we accomplished in the past 20 years?” I resist notions of collective guilt, but I’m about to conclude that Americans deserve condemnation.

  23. Ian Welsh permalink
    March 24, 2016

    I encourage readers to remember that I have been blogging for over 13 years. I have probably written around 1.5 million words online.

    If you think I haven’t written about X before there is a very good chance that you’re wrong.

    In fact, if I’m writing about something, leaving aside specifics of the story of the day I’ve probably written the article so often I’m sick of it, but I’m writing it because most readers haven’t got it yet and other readers are new.

    I forget who first said that about the time you’re sick of writing about something, normal readers are just barely getting the first hint of a clue.

    Most of what I write that is new I write because someone says something that floors me. “Oh! Oh? Wow, that person really doesn’t understand that and I bet lots of other people don’t either.”

    This blog includes some relatively advanced topics at times, but it also includes a whole bunch of remedial stuff no one every bothered to teach you, or that you’ve been propagandized against (like killing more people is worse than killing less people.)

  24. Ian Welsh permalink
    March 24, 2016

    The idea that Bernie doesn’t know how to message is deranged. He came from virtually nowhere to within striking distance of a candidate with more money, institutional support and fame. Anyone who thinks Bernie is a bad politician is on crack. He has essentially zero institutional support, is a “socialist” and is winning multiple states.

    The case for Hillary being a bad messager is far stronger. Given her advantages she should be doing far better, and she certainly shouldn’t have lost to Obama in 08, either.

    I very much doubt that the unemployment rate explains African-American happiness with the economy, but I’m not going to put in hours of unpaid work to prove something which I’m almost certain is bullshit, especially since digging into “why” would best be done by some polling.

    I’ve spent far too much of my life explaining to establishment economists they have their heads up their asses. They can’t learn. That’s too bad, but hey, decline and collapse is what Americans and Europeans clearly intend to accomplish.

    They will most likely succeed.

  25. Ken Hoop permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Sad, that “Tom” has bought the American imperialist lies about Assad’s war crimes.
    And tacked on an unduly optimistic situational outlook from his point of view re the
    war zone.
    But since Russia and RT favor Trump over Clinton as well, I won’t quibble over his misreadings about Syria.

  26. shargash permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Thank you, Ian. This needs to be said more often.

    Though it is often the case, I think it is especially true this year that America will get the president it deserves. Whether the rest of the world deserves that president, well, not so much.

  27. Hugh permalink
    March 24, 2016

    The primary weapon of class war is distraction. So if the rich and elites can set angry white men (Trump) against African-Americans (Clinton) or millennials (Sanders) against older white voters (Clinton), it’s mission accomplished.

    I should say right off the bat the problem is not in the messaging. Trump and Sanders are portrayed as outsiders and anti-Establishment, but they wouldn’t be running inside the Republican and Democratic parties if they really were outsiders. It’s just the party Establishments prefer other candidates. If you are a billionaire or an inoffensive Senator, guess what? you are part of the Establishment.

    Running within one of the two parties is much easier than the movement building needed to run outside them. Trump was lucky that the Republican field was so splintered and fractured. It played into his strength as a showman, allowed him to dominate the media (despite themselves), and make it all about him (free publicity). Sanders had a much harder road. From the start, it was a two horse race, him and Clinton. Clinton had the whole party machine behind her. It didn’t matter what his message was to the black community because it was never going to get past what Bruce Dixon calls the “black misleadership class” (who were all supporting Clinton) to the black community. It is possible to get around obstructive leaderships like these but it takes movement building and a lot of hard work to do so, and when Sanders ran as a Democrat, it was clear he was not going to do this.

    Out of the current candidate field, Clinton is the one who is different from the others. Trump and Cruz really do believe most of the incoherent nuttery they flog. Sanders has high credibility marks, as in he believes what he is saying. But Hillary Clinton, like husband Bill, is a grifter. She believes in nothing. It is all and always about what sells the con. Bill was always much better at the sell (although if you notice nowadays, not so much). There is nothing so lame as a grifter who’s lost the gift of his patter. What Hillary lacks in the sell, she makes up in persistence. This persistence, unfortunately, also explains her penchance for doubling down on failures and never seeming to learn from her mistakes. Of course, we also need to understand that what looks like a mistake from the viewpoint of the good of the country and ordinary Americans often isn’t when looked at from the perspective of the con.

    Perhaps the Clintons’ greatest con was wrapping themselves up in what has come to be known as the Washington Consensus. They identify themselves so closely with Establishment group think that nobody can attack them without attacking and alienating that Establishment. Of course, what this means is that all you ever are ever going to get out of the Clintons is lies and more of the same, but I think you all knew that.

  28. March 24, 2016

    There is a big difference between “experienced” vs. “qualified.”

    Sec’y Clinton has plenty of “credentials” or experience. The more experience she notches, however, the more she demonstrates how unqualified she is on all matters of foreign policy.

    Sec’y Clinton does not have foreign policy qualifications. Her foreign policy experience is proof.

    “Iran!” — (her answer to the question posed at a Dem. forum: “who are you proud to have as an enemy?)” — is one of the more frighteningly naive things Hillary Clinton has said during this campaign.

    Extreme political fear prevented Sen. Clinton for voting to protect U.S. national security in 2003; instead she voted for Bush’s Authorization for the use of force in Iraq. This permanently disqualified her from making credible foreign policy pronouncements. She had six more years in the U.S. Senate to rehabilitate herself. Instead, she piled one false premise on top of another to justify her Iraq vote — a vote that was an objective proposal for massive failure and permanent damage to U.S. national security.

  29. Suttree permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Pitchforks and Trump
    I’m in.

    A’ la lanterne

  30. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Pitchforks and Trump
    I’m in.
    A’ la lanterne

    A motto from the first French Revolution.

    How many people who eagerly joined the Jacobins at first, eventually found their heads coming off?

    From some old movie whose title I forget: “Follow a vulture and you will find death.”

    I’m out.

  31. Jeff W permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Ian:

    The idea that Bernie doesn’t know how to message is deranged.

    I agree with that completely.

    I think Sanders’ problem is exactly what nihil obstet points to: “I like what Sanders says, but you have to be realistic.” “Realism” here, I think, means “a ‘socialist’ ‘can’t win’.” The reasoning, if it can be called that, is that Clinton is more “electable”—the invincible “Republican attack machine” would make Sanders into mincemeat the moment he got the nomination—which denies the actual polling or the broad appeal of Sanders’ positions or Clinton’s actual record or any combination thereof. (I have yet to see any evidence anywhere that people prefer Clinton’s positions as positions to those of Sanders.)

    It’s as if many Democratic voters have factored our completely broken system into their voting—and cannot imagine taking even a tiny step outside of it; it’s a bit like, hypothetically, voting for the corrupt candidate rather than the anti-corruption candidate—even though everyone desperately wants corruption to end—because everyone “knows” that, in the current corrupt system, the anti-corruption candidate can’t win.

  32. Syd permalink
    March 24, 2016

    The idea that Bernie doesn’t know how to message is deranged. He came from virtually nowhere to within striking distance of a candidate with more money, institutional support and fame. Anyone who thinks Bernie is a bad politician is on crack.

    I like Bernie but there’s no question he’s pulled his punches. Clinton’s e-mails are a legitimate issue — especially given her stance on secrecy — and he wouldn’t hit her on it. Just today he attacked the payday lenders and didn’t mention the DNC chair’s lobbying for them, or point out that this is why he’s calling for a “revolution” — in the party and the country. If he can’t do these things because of some inside Fight Club rules, then running inside the Democratic Party is a mistake, a waste of time and resources.

    Again, I’m not trying to run down Bernie, but we have to figure out what we can do differently if we want to win. Obviously if our standard bearer is unable to attack the establishment candidate forcefully — for whatever reason — we’re going to lose every time.

  33. Suttree permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Trump has the potential, in my view, to disable both political parties as they’re presently constituted, at least temporarily wresting control from the current crop of oligarchs controlling both.
    Nothing else initially matters, as nothing is possible before stopping them.
    Trump himself, I’d posit, is nearly incidental compared to the broader current propelling him.
    Of course, where we’d go from there is a crapshoot at best.
    However, there simply isn’t a viable option on the horizon – and we’re already living under fascism, inverted totalitarianism. And it will only get worse.
    There’s nothing to loose, as we’ve already lost.

    A’ la lanterne

  34. Some Guy permalink
    March 24, 2016

    Was going to make the point that folks weren’t appreciating how much Sanders has accomplished against overwhelming odds, but I see Ian has beaten me to it.

    In a way, I am not as negative about Clinton as you are Ian – I see her as more of a tragic figure – a product of her time and place, and a person who, like pretty much everyone, is genuinely trying to do what she thinks is right. But it doesn’t really matter in terms of the consequences of giving her power, the road to hell and all that.

    To me, the most depressing Clinton related item I encountered was the NY Times Libya ‘follow-up’ (which I highly recommend) which made it clear that the only regret Clinton had about Libya was that the US should have committed more people and more money and then they could have made it work.

    “In a rare flash of emotion after leaving office, Mrs. Clinton derided the president’s guiding principle in foreign relations: “Don’t do stupid stuff.”

    ““We have learned the hard way when America is absent, especially from unstable places, there are consequences,” she said at a House hearing on Benghazi in October, articulating what sounded like a guiding principle. “Extremism takes root, aggressors seek to fill the vacuum, and security everywhere is threatened, including here at home.””

    These are the statements of someone trying to apply the approaches that might have worked in an earlier time, and incapable of learning anything from the repeated catastrophic failures of this approach.

    I do not think it is fair to say she is evil or a monster, I truly believe she means well, but I do think it is fair to say that she combines great power to affect the world, an unshakeable faith in the rightness of her positions, and incredibly bad judgment ( a lack of wisdom, if you will). Together, this a combination that leads to tragedy. We’ve already seen one in Libya, what else will we see if she is President? – seems likely that we will get to find out.

  35. Bill Hicks permalink
    March 25, 2016

    This year’s (likely) general election in a nutshell: one candidate is a warmongering, money-grubbing, lying, incompetent fraud; and the other is Donald Trump.

  36. markfromireland permalink
    March 25, 2016

    @ Some Guy March 24, 2016

    I truly believe she means well

    Oh here we go again somebody like you is guaranteed to pop up trotting out the usual lame excuses about how “they meant well”.

    I don’t care. I don’t give a shit what she intended and I very much doubt that the victims of her viciousness, incompetence, and arrogance give a a shit about what she intended either. What I’m interested in is what she did, the viciousness with which she did it, and the entirely predictable – and predicted, catastrophic effects of those actions. All of that is a predictor of how she’ll continue to behave. I’m interested in behaviour and consequences and that is all I’m interested in. Feeble half assed excuses about intentions, “she means well”, don’t cut it, not even remotely.

    If she has as you yourself have expressed it ” great power to affect the world” then she has a duty to exercise that power responsibly, a duty she has signally failed to perform throughout her career.

  37. V. Arnold permalink
    March 25, 2016

    I have to second MFI across the board. We cannot afford this nonsense any longer.
    2016 is “IT”! There will not be a second chance!

  38. S Brennan permalink
    March 25, 2016

    I agree fully with Mark’s point;

    However, let me add, any attempt to obscure the vicious pettiness of Hillary is refuted by her public record. I am speaking, of course, of her sadistic cackle at the news of Qaddafi being sodomized to death, a murder she so neatly arranged and the revelation in her emails that she destroyed Libya at the behest of her political donors…and for that reason alone. Over 25,000 black skinned people in Libya were tortuously murdered by Hillary’s hired henchman to the polite applause of her supporters.

    No! Hillary Clinton is not somebody who meant well.

    Hillary Clinton is, in all respects, a war criminal, not somebody who was “only following orders”, not somebody who was “coerced” or a “victim of circumstance”, but a full-up in-your-face war criminal, a full equal to those rightfully hung in Nuremberg. Hillary Clinton is a monster.

  39. MojaveWolf permalink
    March 25, 2016

    The idea that Bernie doesn’t know how to message is deranged. He came from virtually nowhere to within striking distance of a candidate with more money, institutional support and fame. Anyone who thinks Bernie is a bad politician is on crack. He has essentially zero institutional support, is a “socialist” and is winning multiple states.

    Thank you. I have seen multiple times in multiple places that if he doesn’t win it’s a problem with his messages. I initially supported him hoping he would get to 10% & this would cause Hillary to move leftwards when she saw that there was a viable constituency for those policies and she didn’t *have* to pander rightwards.

    (You may all die laughing at my misperception on HRC now. I rarely misread people that horribly, but I did in fact believe she was a decent person who meant well and was only compromising rightwards because she thought she had to. I was wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong on all counts. )

    He … has done a little better than that. Basically pulled even. Maybe ahead. And that’s with a media blackout for the most part, and a full court press disinformation campaign the rest of the time, which I had not expected at all. 3 of the states he lost involved outright cheating, 3rd world level blatant in the case of Arizona. NC may not have been election fraud, but the campaign infiltration should repulse anyone who has any conscious at all (actually, I’ll go further and say anyone who still supports her basically doesn’t care about the democratic process at all as long as their candidate gets in. Which is fine if you admit it, but basically, if you are still defending her then as far as I’m concerned you have no business complaining about voting fraud ever again, or saying you care at all about promoting democracy anywhere else, cause you damn sure don’t care about it here. Those who feel like they are being insulted should, unless you have been paying absolutely no attention to anything but CNN, in which case you’re just ignorant.) At this point, I’m pretty sure I’m far from the only one who no longer trusts any result not backed by a paper trail.

    Bernie is resonating with the public because everyone who isn’t so disillusioned that they think EVERYONE is an untrustworthy fraud realizes he is something different. He actually means what he says. No, he isn’t perfect, but no one ever will be. O’Malley had the same message and is a terrific speaker and debater but got no traction because, well, you have two guys saying the same thing and you know one is trustworthy and you’re unsure about the other, who ya gonna vote for? Hillary adopted some of the same message but has been practically salivating to run back to being a more obvious corporate lackey plus she always sounds desperate to attack Iran for some reason, so I don’t think anyone bought her for a second.

    And AZ/IL/NC? Those have ended any chance of her getting a HUGE chunk of his supporters, unless Donald announces he wishes to legalize murder in the streets (and we’d prolly still go to a third party instead). MA was cheating too and some of us were pissed, and it was really weird that Bernie won the hand counted parts by double digits, but now we’re way past “this seems a little strange…”

    At this point, I think we’re at “Hillary just as unconcerned with Democratic process in US as in Honduras” & “The DNC and MSM are basically endorsing cheating to put her in, and don’t give a shit what the people want, if you vote for him we will do everything we can to stop you or switch your vote”.

    They have just insured that they are the party of the terminally stupid, people who don’t have internet or time to keep up (but stuff eventually filters down even to them) and people who don’t care at all about corruption, period. I do tend to overestimate people, but I don’t think the openly pro-corruption, pro-cheating party is a winning slogan with the American people, even today. They probably hope people will just quit voting, or that no one will care when they rig the voting machines, and that they can get away with it because Republicans (rightly) loathe and distrust their party leaders too. but I don’t think they have any idea what they are laying the groundwork for.

    Or, Bernie pulls a comeback, we toss out all the business as usual sacks of shit and replace them with people who either aren’t corrupt or at least understand the need not to be too obvious about it and are committed to enacting actual policies that will make the world a better place instead of a worse one.

  40. MojaveWolf permalink
    March 25, 2016

    Trump and Sanders are portrayed as outsiders and anti-Establishment, but they wouldn’t be running inside the Republican and Democratic parties if they really were outsiders

    Bernie is running as a democrat because he actually wants to make a difference. If he had run as a Green or the Peace & Freedom Party (the socialists in Cali, dunno what they called elsewhere), he would have never had a chance at more than a 2% vote total. At best. With no one hearing anything he said except people who already agreed with him. Hillary would have been coronated, O’Malley would have run a different campaign, and we all would have been stuck with 4 more years of awful with no end in sight. Bernie did it the smart way, outsider or no.

    Trump…. obviously pro-establishment, but he’s clearly smarter and better at this than the other GOP. I think he’s a fraud and a faux populist, not a real one, and I don’t think he’d do a good job if he won. But give him some credit–he forever removed the whole “Bush kept us safe” crap from the national discourse. He is an outsider to actual politics, if not to the oligarchy. And if he hadn’t run as Republican, he wouldn’t be getting all the attention he craves, either. He’d be like a louder, more made fun of version of Bloomberg instead of what he is now. For this (possibly one last) primary season, it was necessary to run as a major party candidate if you wanted to get attention for your issues or yourself.

  41. Hugh permalink
    March 25, 2016

    I too agree with Mark. Our elites, of which Clinton is an extremely high level member, justify their wealth and privileges on the basis of their knowing more and better than the rest of us. But as the history of the last 35 to 50 years has shown with its ongoing destruction of the middle class and a series of endless wars they have lied us into and lied to keep us in, they have not known more or better. As Mark says, there have been plenty of us non-elite Untermenschen who have been right, and consistently right, even as our privileged elites have been just as consistently wrong. These are not well intentioned people. If they were well intentioned, they would look at their record, admit they don’t know what they are doing, and leave. But they don’t. They stay and defend their privileges.

    People, like Clinton, visit one disaster after another on the rest of us, fail upwards themselves and make millions doing so. Neither chance nor incompetence can explain how no matter how badly they screw up/us, they make out like bandits, unless of course we recognize them as bandits. If we look at our elites as a criminal class, the history of the last 35 to 50 years suddenly does make sense. I call this period the construction of kleptocracy, the rule of criminals. And it is by no means a uniquely American phenomenon.

    Do Clinton and our elites believe they are criminals? Almost certainly not, and again as Mark says, it doesn’t matter. The SS officer conducting mass executions of thousands probably believed in the rightness of his cause and his actions. And those beliefs change nothing. He still was acting in bad faith, because bad faith is not about what you believe or how strongly. It is about what any ordinary person of those of us in the hoi polloi would know and consider evil and wrong.

    You might be thinking oh no, a nazi reference. The argument is too extreme, but here too you would be mistaken. Our elites inflict great violence on us and on the people in the rest of the world. But when it is done to us Americans, it is never called violence. So our elites can foreclose on a million families, and that’s not violence. They can send millions of US jobs to China and kick those people out of the middle class, and that’s not violence. They can force us to buy crappy health insurance that, with its deductibles, is too expensive to actually use, and kill off a few hundred thousand of us that way each year, and that’s not violence. They can use the markets, the tax structure, and Fed policy to transfer trillions away from us and to themselves, and that’s not violence. The hell it isn’t! And when it is done to the rest of the world, it is always depicted as a great crusade, necessary violence but still heroic. But none of them would have given a damn about Gaddafi or Saddam Hussein or Libya and Iraq if they had had no oil. And ISIS? They don’t care how much ISIS destabilizes Syria. They are concerned about it destabilizing Iraq, the Gulf, and Saudi Arabia, again because of the oil.

    The truth is the only violence that our elites find unconscionable is violence directed at them. And how do they define such violence? Making them liable for the crimes they have committed, making them pay back the money they have stolen, reducing their power and eliminating their undeserved privileges, you know making them look more like the rest of us and, in doing so, tying their fates to ours, in other words replacing privilege with responsibility. Just imagine the howls that would produce. People, like Bill and Hillary, having to live like the rest of us, going down if the rest of us go down. The ignominy and injustice of it all. It would be communism, the end of the world, and against all the laws of nature wrapped into one!

    How do we know? Because our elites would be telling us so. They would be telling us that we can not exist without them. No matter how often they are wrong, and I mean disastrously, catastrophically wrong, or how much they loot and work against us, we need them. And why would they be telling us these laughably transparent lies? because it has always worked in the past, because they count on us rubes always giving them the benefit of the doubt.

  42. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 25, 2016

    we’re already living under fascism, inverted totalitarianism.

    Which is why you’re writing this from prison, awaiting your summary execution on spurious charges.

    Oh wait–no, you’re not, are you?

  43. Patricia permalink
    March 25, 2016

    It is unfortunate that evil doesn’t grow horns and fangs on all its practitioners. Apparently some of us follow a materialism so narrowly circumscribed that even actions are too un-embodied for diagnosis.

  44. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 25, 2016

    If we are living under fascism, and if Hellary the Wicked Witch is as smart, as evil, and as powerful as you lot think she is, then why are you lot not all occupying gulags or graves?

    That’s also the problem with the conspiracy buffs (I am not including you lot in that category)–if the Illuminati or whoever are as vastly powerful and totalitarian as the conspiracy buffs say, then why do the Masters allow the conspiracy buffs to remain alive and free?

  45. March 25, 2016

    Thanks to Mark and Hugh for stating how elegantly what I cannot seem to express, these so called leaders have no heart or soul as evidenced by their on going actions, yet we’re called on to vote for scum after scum after scum, oh what a great country I belong too !!!

  46. S Brennan permalink
    March 25, 2016

    “Which is why you’re writing this from prison, awaiting your summary execution on spurious charges. Oh wait–no, you’re not, are you?” What an example of ignorance [granted you provide so many].

    The USA is already home to – Indefinite detention without trial..or charge, Summary execution lists..developed by software, 24/7/365 surveillance of all citizens, confiscation of property without trial or charge…et al.

    1] I could go on, but I want to leave something for our precocious youngster to find out using his own efforts and study.

    2] To give him a chance to reply:

    a] It hasn’t happen to me? I’ve got nothing to hide.

    b] People who are punished must be guilty of something

    c] When they came for OWS, I didn’t care because…

  47. Ché Pasa permalink
    March 25, 2016

    There has never been a time that I’m aware of that the upper echelons of the US political class have not been monstrous, have not engaged in war crimes and crimes against humanity, and have not been the servants of the rich and powerful. It’s baked in, and it won’t be changed through electoral politics.

    Hitlery/Hellary is no unique avatar of evil. Sorry, she just isn’t. Anyone who rises as high as she has in the government of this country will be tainted with the same brush of evil she is being tainted with by her opposition.

    Bernie is not entirely free of it, either. No one serves in the Congress for as long as he has without being tainted.

    As for Trump, the man revels in his urge to commit even more crimes against humanity than Arch-Demon Kissinger or his hell spawn Hillary. Giving him a pass because he hasn’t done so yet is insane.

    If you want this to change, you’ll have to change the institutional nature of the US government. Presidential politics cannot do that.

  48. markfromireland permalink
    March 25, 2016

    @ Seamus – entertaining though it is watching others do so, I don’t bother replying to our resident (and self-confessed) Clinton shill firstly because he doesn’t actually have anything to refute the points that you and others have made, and secondly because I’ve got better things to do like watching trees grow, or the paint on my freshly painted kitchen door dry.

  49. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 25, 2016

    Che Pasa makes quite a bit of sense. The candidates will all say more or less the same things about foreign policy; such are the imperatives of the Empire of Capital (not the Empire of the USA; Capital is Sauron; Uncle Sam is merely the Lord of the Nazgul). That being the case, I can choose among them based only on their positions on domestic issues.

    “Youngster”? My increasingly creaky body wishes SB was correct about that. I complete my 53rd solar orbit in May. 😆

    Yes, our gulag system imprisons wrongly convicted people. Now, how many were wrongly convicted deliberately, on the basis of political dissent?

  50. nihil obstet permalink
    March 25, 2016

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker
    “Yes, our gulag system imprisons wrongly convicted people. Now, how many were wrongly convicted deliberately, on the basis of political dissent?”

    On the theory that even responding to this is more fun than continuing to work on my taxes, I thought I’d remind you of this. The metastasis of incarceration nation was explicitly political.

  51. different clue permalink
    March 25, 2016

    @Tom,

    The accusation that “Assad gasses children”, “Assad gassed his own people” etc. is a DC FedRegime lie. The DC FedRegime and its allies in the Global Axis of Jihad know very well that regional Axis of Jihad Powers used their alphabet jihadi proxies in-country to use that kitchen sarin on those people. They know this because they are the people who fabricated that kitchen sarin and transported it to their pet jihadis in Syria. You can read all about it on Colonel Lang’s most recent Sic Semper Tyrannis thread . . . here.
    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/03/httpdailystarcomlbnewsmiddle-east2016mar-12341885-iraqi-officials-isis-chemical-attacks-kill-child-wound-600ashx.html
    You can also read previous posts posted further back in time on the SST blog on the same subject.

    There is “another” way the war in Syria can come to an end. The R + 6 can get every rebel in Syria either recruited back to loyalty or at least sullen surrender to the SARgov . . .
    or exterminate every single unreconcilable rebel in Syria . . . most especially the “foreign” jihadis. Russia in particular would like to see every Chechen and other “former Soviet Space” and/or Russian-Federation-citizen jihadi in Syria carefully exterminated within Syria to prevent them from ever returning to bring their jihaddery back to Russia. I should think China would also support such an exterminate-the-jihadis program within the borders of Syria.

    And there are some schools of thought which see a very fair chance that the COLA (Coalition Of Legitimate Authority) can defeat and exterminate the GOAJ ( Global Axis Of Jihad) within Syria before a Borgist President can take charge after Obama in America. You can read all about that too at SST if you care to. And remember, things go better with COLA.

    And remember too, reality is the stuff that stays real no matter how hard you pretend otherwise. We will see what is real when the fighting has stopped within Syria.

  52. different clue permalink
    March 25, 2016

    @Ivory Bill Woodpecker,

    You think your body creaks? I am now 58 years old. Soon to be 59 in,ummm . . . 4 days from now.

  53. Hugh permalink
    March 25, 2016

    Ché Pasa, you are using a variant of the “same as it ever was” argument. People who deny manmade climate change use it as well. We have had warm periods and cold periods so what we have now is nothing new. But you are wrong for the same reason they are. Sometimes things really are different. Throughout American history there has been an ongoing struggle between the haves and have-nots.

    But something changed in the 1960s. Average real wages of the lower 80% stopped growing. In 1968, their share of total income, i.e. put everyone’s income in a basket and compare how much goes to the lower 80% vs the top 20%, peaked and it has been declining ever since, a 17.2% negative swing as I wrote recently. This was a really big deal. First, because to have wealth you need disposable income, that is income over and above what you need for necessary expenses. Second, because wealth is cumulative, it is a multiple of disposable income. If you are just making ends meet, your wealth will be close to zero. But if you have disposable income, you can use some of it for savings. That money not only accumulates over time but grows through investment in a compound way. So while the difference in two incomes (one with and one without disposable income) might remain stable over time. The wealth of the higher income will accelerate over the same period. But as I just said, incomes did not remain stable. The share of the top 20%’s income increased and that means their wealth increased a lot, lot more.

    Or to look at it another way, into the 1960s, it was still considered something of the norm for a person with only a high school education to be able to afford a family, a house, a car, and be able to send their kids to college on their single income without incurring mountains of unsustainable debt.

    Then in the late 1970s, things changed again. Usury laws were repealed, industries were deregulated, private sector unions were weakened, and the Fed began its long war against growth in workers’ wages.

    In the 1990’s, there was NAFTA and the beginning of the free trade movement which decimated American manufacturing.

    Then in 2000, we saw the ascendancy of financialization. Derivatives were deregulated, Glass-Steagall was repealed allowing banks and insurance companies to gamble with their customers’ money. At the Fed, you had not only the Greenspan put but de facto deregulation of the financial industry.

    In 2007-2009, things changed again. All this upward transfer of wealth resulted in a huge property bubble which went splat in 2007, and then in 2008, a very much larger bubble in derivatives exploded threatening to take a by now endlessly criminal and corrupt financial system with it. Together these represent the largest frauds in human history. Yet not one person ever went to jail for them.

    In response to these events, the Congress, Treasury, and the Fed bailed out the rich and left everyone else to twist slowly in the wind, collateral damage doncha know. The Fed alone ran more than $27 trillion in activity through its “emergency” programs, and this does not count its regular operations which it has always kept secret, or ZIRP, or the three iterations of QE.

    All this is simply unparalleled in human history, and certainly our history, in terms of the sheer size of the thefts and frauds, the time frame (35 to 50 years) over which they occurred, and the lack of response to them by their victims in the lower 80% of the population. In the 1930s, we nearly had a revolution. Now the best we can do is a marginalized milquetoast progressive, a billionaire populist hack, and of course a corrupt, more of the same Clinton.

  54. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 25, 2016

    @Nihil: Thanx; I had overlooked that. On a broad-spectrum level, the War on (some) Drugs serves to deprive any emergent leftist movement of many of its natural rank-and-file members.

  55. Ian Welsh permalink
    March 25, 2016

    Clinton was, in 08, slightly to the left of Obama on domestic affairs and slightly to his right on foreign affairs.

    She’s still terrible on both and you have a far better option available in 16.

    The weird thing about Sanders is that his record on foreign affairs votes is actually better than his rhetoric.

    Anyone who reads my blog who thinks I have anything but contempt for Obama hasn’t been paying attention. He’s done a few good things, but they are vastly outweighed by his evil.

  56. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 25, 2016

    In the 1930s, we nearly had a revolution.

    Indeed, but not only did the vacuum-skulled misruling classes berate FDR & Co. for taking the necessary measures to head off that revolution, they have spent the past nearly fifty years now doing everything they can do to repeal the New Deal and the Great Society programs, without which shenanigans they would not now need to worry about Il Douche Trump.

    Pride may be the deadliest of the Seven Deadly Sins, but Greed certainly challenges Pride for that title sometimes.

  57. Peter* permalink
    March 25, 2016

    @Different Clue,

    The fact that Assad is a bloody tyrant who was the only one capable of gassing his citizens doesn’t excuse the US for anything or support any apologies for their behavior in the ME.

    Using rumors, unverified reports and propaganda as apologia or to deceive people about Assad’s treachery is not unlike what some people do to bolster the power and reputation of the Hegemon and it also reeks of agenda.

    The only verified documented information we have seen about the four gas attacks in Ghouta is that the sarin used matches Assad’s stockpiles. There has been no verified or documented evidence produced that anyone but Assad could or did produce any sarin especially the ridiculously named kitchen sarin.

  58. Lisa permalink
    March 25, 2016

    More on how to con the socially conservative white poor/woring classes and this is classic tactic that has been used on them for decades now.

    Pick some strawman social conservative issue (LGBTI whatever), beat it up, pass some legisalation showing how they support ‘family values’ or some sort of other nonsense, bury some rich friendly, anti-poor/working class legislation into it.

    Works everytime and the mugs fall for it everytime. The Houston HERO plebacite was the classic example, but here is another perfect example using the current hate group, trans women and the ‘threat’ to women and kids in bathrooms*…

    Note that they never mention the same legislation will force big burly bearded hairy trans men into womens bathrooms… And there are as many trans men as there are trans women (on current trends there will more in the future).

    “North Carolina revokes transgender and gay protections”
    “Transgender people in North Carolina now must use restrooms that match the gender listed on their on their birth certificate .”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35893281

    But….
    “The transgender bathroom panic bill also contained an Easter egg that killed off any potential “Fight for 15” wage ordinances by locality. ”

    The fact is that eventually the bathroom law will be overturned by legal action (and the legislators know that), but I bet the anti ‘fight for 15’ part won’t be… of course.

    Oh my, they fall for it everytime. Sometimes it is very difficult to have sympathy for them as a group when their nasty little prejudices get so easily manipulated over and over again, while their pockets get picked by the rich. ‘Psychological’ wage trumps real money endlessly.

    “We got those poofs sorted out didn’t we. Yeh we did mate, made the world a much better place, pass me some more of that fresh dung to eat will you”.

  59. Lisa permalink
    March 25, 2016

    Not a bad article on HRC:

    “From Clinton’s support for the escalation of the War on Drugs and move to more draconian welfare policy to her longtime opposition to gay marriage to her promotion of “free trade” deals that have prioritized the interests of multinational corporations over those of the bulk of the world’s citizens, Clinton’s history is closer to many Republicans’ than to Sanders’, who has a very good (albeit imperfect) record on racial justice issues, anti-poverty work, LGBT issues, and opposing bad trade deals. To be sure, there are some causes on which Sanders has found Republican allies, but those causes have generally been ones – like opposition to corporate welfare – that Tomasky’s “actual leftists” support.”

    Agrees with my thesis that Clinton is not electable:
    “All the evidence suggests Sanders is a more “electable” general election candidate than Clinton.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-spielberg/common-arguments-from-hillary-clinton_b_9511008.html

  60. Ché Pasa permalink
    March 25, 2016

    Hugh

    My argument is that the monstrousness is institutional and systemic within the governing culture and class in the United States. Hillary Clinton is by no means uniquely evil but is representative of the institution itself.

    Electing Trump — or Sanders, for that matter — is not going to change the underlying principles and practices of the US Government. The evil is baked in.

    The only way to change it is to change the institution itself.

    Even your own list of bad things points to the institutional — rather than the individual — nature of the problem.

    So citing Clinton as some kind of Supreme Evil (while Kissinger is still alive! — m/l) or proposing that Trump is the Lesser Evil (because he hasn’t committed genocide yet) is silly or insane.

  61. Suttree permalink
    March 25, 2016

    Why has Elizabeth Warren choked?
    Why hasn’t she committed publicly to Sanders?
    She managed another supporting comment, but that’s well short of her obligation.
    Warren could have made a difference for Sanders earlier – he needs and deserves her formal blessing right now.

  62. Suttree permalink
    March 25, 2016

    … for that matter, Warren should be Sander’s VP.

  63. Ivory Bill Woodpecker permalink
    March 25, 2016

    From the world of Muggles, Gene Lyons weighs in.

  64. Lisa permalink
    March 26, 2016

    Just to comfound the cynics like MFI that no positive change is ever possible:

     Three Times When ‘Impractical’ Movements Led to Real Change
    Against all odds, the world broke open. Could it happen again in 2016?

    1. Civil Rights: An “Unwise and Untimely” Movement
     2. When Dictators Fall – No 100% correct, but overall right.
    3. Gay Marriage: Touching the Third Rail
    “ “I’m not in this just to change the law,” Wolfson argued in 2001. “It’s about changing society.” Pushing only for more easily obtainable gains, such as domestic partnerships, he contended, was a mistake. Instead, he advocated going “into the room, asking for what we deserve, telling our powerful stories, and engaging the reachable allies. We may leave the room not getting everything we want, but don’t go in bargaining against yourself.” The movement committed itself, in the words of historian Josh Zeitz, “to a decades-long campaign to win the hearts and minds of ordinary voters.” ”

     Breaking Open New Possibilities
    “The beauty of impractical movements is that they confound established expectations about the political future, which means it’s difficult to predict when and where new outbreaks of defiance and hope will succeed in capturing the public imagination. Still, there are a number of areas in which, at this very moment, activists are developing strategies of disruptive revolt with an eye to producing the kind of whirlwind moments that can redefine the public perception of what’s politically practical and necessary. ”

    http://www.thenation.com/article/three-times-when-impractical-movements-led-to-real-change/

  65. March 26, 2016

    Yes, but she’s a WOMAN, remember?
    Can’t pass up the chance to have “the first woman president”. “Image over substance” you know.

    Besides: Think of all those second-class nations who beat the U.S. to the punch on “having a woman president”: India; Israel; South Korea; The Philippines; Argentina …
    The U.S. has a lot of “catching up” to do. Can’t let “character assessments” get in the way.
    Besides …Hillary Clinton is “only another politician” anyway.

  66. sluggo permalink
    March 26, 2016

    Peter, you are a liar. Go take your lies elsewhere. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

  67. fdg permalink
    March 26, 2016

    sluggo: So it seems Obama was willing to take the U.S. to war based on known lies about WMD–and in the end forced Syria to disarm based on those lies, and is now trying to leverage that disarmament into “regime change”.

    He and his predecessor really are two peas in a pod.

  68. Peter* permalink
    March 26, 2016

    @Sluggo

    Your lame taunt only shows your lame ability to recognize when you are being somebody’s fool.

    Sy Hersh’s rambling contradictory verbiage, with no verification or documentation, is supposedly sourced from his old Spook friends in and out of the US govt who have a long history of lying and they certainly have agendas.

    @FDG

    You seem to be clueless about the fact that Putin brokering the deal in Syria, that stopped the US attack, was verification that Assad possessed WMD’s/ chemical weapons and the UN investigation to determine who is responsible for the Ghouta attacks, proven to have been Sarin from Assad’s stockpiles. recently authorized by Putin will most likely blame Assad who was the only one proven to possess or be able to produce Sarin.

    Removal of Assad from power in Syria is not necessarily total regime change and the US/Russia agreement allows the Ba’athist regime to retain some power shared with the rebel opposition.

  69. S Brennan permalink
    March 26, 2016

    “the UN investigation to determine who is responsible for the Ghouta attacks, proven to have been Sarin from Assad’s stockpiles”

    Bullshit.Peter* Absolute Bullshit, you are CLEARLY a lying sack of shit…and have been since you showed up here. In order to believe your bullshit, the government would have chosen to have a gas attack just hours before the inspectors showed up. Absolute Bullshit, furthermore:

    “The report, which was “careful not to blame either side,” said that during the mission’s work in the rebel controlled Zamalka and Ein Tarma neighborhoods, “individuals arrived carrying other suspected munitions indicating that such potential evidence is being moved and possibly manipulated.”[22] The areas were under rebel control, but the report did not elaborate on who the individuals were.[23] The UN investigators were accompanied by a rebel leader:[24]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_investigation_of_chemical_weapons_use_in_Ghouta

    And here is full refutation of Peter’s Bullshit.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/12/dirty-war-syria-chemical-fabrications-east-ghouta-incident.html

  70. different clue permalink
    March 26, 2016

    @Peter*,

    Thank you for your response to my comment. I am always interested to hear from you. Please feel free to let me know if you have any other concerns.

  71. Peter* permalink
    March 26, 2016

    @SB

    I don’t think you are a liar, SB just stupid, emotional and somewhat reactionary but that seems to be the norm for many people these days.

    When and if you or anyone can produce something besides rumor, speculation and unverified reports to support the nonsensical suppositions about what happened in Ghouta I might change my opinion about those incidents. It has been three years and the only verified documented facts that are known are that sarin was used in these attacks and that that sarin matched Assad’s stockpile, which was offered for disposal with the assistance of the Russians. After this much time I doubt anyone will or can produce any valid evidence to contradict these facts, no matter what is written in various internet sites.

    The investigators were delayed by Assad’s forces from accessing the gas attack sites and even if the sites were manipulated or evidence moved the sarin residues found were matched to Assad’s stockpile and could have come from no other source. Even if the rebels moved some of the sarin evidence it was still Assad’s sarin recovered from these attack sites.

  72. S Brennan permalink
    March 26, 2016

    Peter;

    You tried to sell a lie, utterly unrelated to this post. The links I provided prove you to be a liar, it’s just that simple. You lied, so when say:

    “When and if you or anyone can produce something besides rumor, speculation and unverified reports to support the nonsensical suppositions about what happened in Ghouta I might change my opinion about those incidents.”

    It’s YOU who made the original assertions, it is YOUR job to prove your lie, not mine.

    However, because some gullible reader might come along and not know you to be a fraudulent poster who comes here to disseminate lies, I provided links to discredit your fraudulent claim.

  73. Jagger permalink
    March 26, 2016

    —-“ “I’m not in this just to change the law,” Wolfson argued in 2001. “It’s about changing society.” Pushing only for more easily obtainable gains, such as domestic partnerships, he contended, was a mistake. Instead, he advocated going “into the room, asking for what we deserve, telling our powerful stories, and engaging the reachable allies. We may leave the room not getting everything we want, but don’t go in bargaining against yourself.” The movement committed itself, in the words of historian Josh Zeitz, “to a decades-long campaign to win the hearts and minds of ordinary voters.” ”—-

    The problem is that voters did not vote for gay rights. As far as I can tell, everything was achieved through judicial fiat. I certainly don’t remember having an opportunity to vote on the issue.

  74. V. Arnold permalink
    March 27, 2016

    S Brennan
    March 26, 2016

    Yeah, that’s been my read of Peter* as well.
    There is a simple solution: Do not feed the trolls.

  75. March 27, 2016

    The Goldwater support of her youth has resurfaced

  76. Peter* permalink
    March 27, 2016

    @SB

    I agree that you and other members of the Society of Simpletons may need protection from reality and it is probably a fools errand to shatter your illusions but I have nothing better to do at the moment.

    In your warped reality, links to fringe blogs are ‘facts’ while the verifiable documented reports from OPCW and UNHRC are heresy/lies that must be flamed before they infect other inquiring minds. You are such an altruist to offer your wisdom and guidance to others who might be confused by real verified facts that don’t fit the fables that believers should mindlessly parrot.

  77. Lisa permalink
    March 27, 2016

    Jagger It would have been landslide in favour.

    However I am not sure at the logic of needing a vote. This was removing a restriction based on descrimination. No specfific vote was needed to do the similar for civil rights, womens equality and so on.

    After all no vote was taken when the descrimination was put into the marriage legisalation.

    This happens all the time in the US, the Fed Govt or States come out with legisalation that gets struck down or changed because they are unconstitutional. This was another example.

    But it required social change first. As long as LGBTI people were seen as ‘perverts’ and ‘sick’ the Court wouldn’t even hear such a case. Only after they were seen as just people just like everyone else and not untermench, then it was prepared to do something about it as they were being singled out to be treated unfairly.

    Ireland did that but that was because they had to make constitutional changes which required a referendum. In their case the dominant Catholic church had played a large part in the creation of it, hence its anti-women, anti-LGBTI parts. Yet another good example of why religion should not be allowed anywhere near Govt and legislation.

  78. Lisa permalink
    March 29, 2016

    Just as I preducted:
    ““The transgender bathroom panic bill also contained an Easter egg that killed off any potential “Fight for 15” wage ordinances by locality. ”

    The fact is that eventually the bathroom law will be overturned by legal action (and the legislators know that), but I bet the anti ‘fight for 15’ part won’t be… of course.

    Oh my, they fall for it everytime. Sometimes it is very difficult to have sympathy for them as a group when their nasty little prejudices get so easily manipulated over and over again, while their pockets get picked by the rich.”

    ————–
    “Today at a press conference in Raleigh, North Carolina, the state’s Attorney General Roy Cooper announced that his office would not defend House Bill 2, the law pushed through during an unprecedented special legislative session of the NC General Assembly that blocks Charlotte’s non-discrimination ordinance, forbids other municipalities from protecting LGBT people, and requires transgender people to use restrooms that align with the gender on their birth certificate, denying them their personal gender identity.”
    http://www.freedomforallamericans.org/north-carolina-attorney-general-will-not-defend-the-unconstitutional-anti-lgbt-hb2/

  79. markfromireland permalink
    March 31, 2016

    @ Lisa March 26, 2016

    I am neither a cynic nor comfounded (sic). It is my idealism, my optimism, my patriotism, and my desire that my people have the opportunity to lead the best lives possible that keep me actively and heavily involved in Conservative Catholic European politics.

    I am however deeply cynical about the prospects of anything good coming from having anything to do with American so-called “liberals” or “progressives” or whichever other mendacious misdescription they wish to apply to themselves. It comes as no surprise to me to learn that American liberals tried to stab the civil rights movement in the back. That’s what they were meant to do and they loyally went ahead and did it. The same as when faced with the prospect of having to create integrated communities they abandoned the cities in their droves in what became known as “white flight” the same as they turned their backs on protecting civilised values of law enforcement and the same as the they turned their backs on serving in the military. The result of this cowardice is that America now has a viciously right-wing prosecutorial service, a viciously right-wing and heavily militarised policing and prison system, and a judiciary that would make Carl Schmitt blench. Furthermore their military is now dominated by a right-wing religious officer corps.

    Dictators fall when their support system is hollowed out or when a country’s ruling class lose confidence in them – in Milosevic’s case both those by losing a war and a collapsed economy. Otpor did good work but they took advantage of circumstances they didn’t create. They were also a very middle-class movement the children of the elite and its administrative class.

    I don’t for one moment disagree that America and the country to which you emigrated are urgently in need all sorts of reforms I can however tell you that anyone who allies themselves with American “liberals” or “progressives” is going to be stymied at every turn. Far better to create a genuinely radical reformist movement than to be hemmed in liberalism’s dank, decaying, and blocked canals.

  80. April 9, 2016

    love it
    I am tired of the “lesser evil” argument; but it is not clear to me that Clinton is the lesser evil.

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